THE Trinity can Now be discussed.
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St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
That's not how it works. There are three individuals in the Trinity godhead.
God the Father was not on the cross. Neither was the Holy Spirit.
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Yes. It was God's will, God's design and plan, and God chose that His beloved Son should implement His plan, just a a human father would delight in teaching his young son how to create something. Colossians 1:12-20 (Updated American Standard Version - UASV+):
(12) giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the holy ones in the light.
(13) For he rescued us from the authority of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son,
(14) in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
(15) He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
(16) For by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities, all things have been created through him and for him.
(17) And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
(18) And he is the head of the body, the congregation. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent.
(19) For it was the good pleasure of the Father that in him should all the fullness dwell,
(20) and through him to reconcile all things unto himself [God, the Father], having made peace through the blood of his cross; through him, I say, whether things upon the earth, or things in the heavens.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
St. SteVen said:
Remember, he put his deity aside taking the form of a servant.
Philippians 2:5-8 NIV
In your relationships with one another,
have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in very nature[a] God,
did not consider equality with God something
to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature[b] of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
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Remember, he put his deity aside taking the form of a servant.
Do you need the biblical reference?
Philippians 2:5-8 NIV
In your relationships with one another,
have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in very nature[a] God,
did not consider equality with God something
to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature[b] of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
[
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
Jesus is God the Son. Jesus is not God the Father. Jesus is not God the Holy Spirit.
All three are God. But none are all three.
Each member of the Trinity has a different role and their own mind.
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Behold
Well-Known Member
Jesus said..
"If you've seen Me, you've seen the Father"
"I and my Father are ONE".
"ONE" is the 3.
Also..
"God is A Spirit", and "Jesus is THAT Spirit".
And notice this..
In Genesis, God gave Adam the "Spirit"...........
In John, .. Jesus Gave the 11 Discples the "Spirit".......
Only God can give the Holy Spirit, because only God is The Holy Spirit...and you see that God gave it to Adam, and Jesus gave it to the 11 Apostles, and JESUS sent the Holy Spirit to the Earth, Himself , in Acts 2.
Psalm 110 is about Christ and God together on the throne.
Christ really did humble Himself from the glory He had together (shared) with the Father and was born as a man, for the joy that was set before Him to be our savior, a grand drama played out in the heavens and the earth and in hell. He went to all those places and then ascended far above all to the highest heaven back to the Father.
Perhaps what is troubling is still thinking Christ and God are one person, when they are distinct persons but joined as one. Christ has His own will.
Christ completely submitted Himself to the will of the Father, and sought not His own will. He is our example, where we also should not seek our own will, but God's will, we should be rich towards God.
So yeah Christ chose to not know everything the Father knows as He fully trusted His-self to the Father's will. Christ was on a mission and full of purpose.. Christ honored the Father as grater than Himself, and God glorified Christ.
John 4:34
Jesus said to them, “My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me, and to finish His work.
John 5:30
I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.
John 6:38
For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
Psalm 110
The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.”
2 The Lord shall send the rod of Your strength out of Zion.
Rule in the midst of Your enemies!
3 Your people shall be volunteers
In the day of Your power;
In the beauties of holiness, from the womb of the morning,
You have the dew of Your youth.
4 The Lord has sworn
And will not relent,
“You are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek.”
5 The Lord is at Your right hand;
He shall [a]execute kings in the day of His wrath.
6 He shall judge among the nations,
He shall fill the places with dead bodies,
He shall [b]execute the heads of many countries.
7 He shall drink of the brook by the wayside;
Therefore He shall lift up the head.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
Like you, I believe in one God. But in three persons.
Jesus is God because he was the Word that was with God in the beginning.
He was even part of the creation work. Without him nothing was created.
Colossians 1:15-17 NIV
The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth,
visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities;
all things have been created through him and for him.
17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
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David in NJ
Well-Known Member
God the Father, His Son the Lord and the Holy Spirit is a MYSTERY to everyone.
This MYSTERY is only revealed to us by the Word that was God in the beginning = John 1:1
This is why Genesis begins with ALL THREE
1In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2Now the earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep.
And the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters.
3And God Said(Word)
v26 - Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness = 3
The exact and original word for God is in Hebrew and is the word 'Elohim' which is Plural
God
אֱלֹהִ֑ים (’ĕ·lō·hîm)
Noun - masculine plural
Strong's Hebrew 430: 1) (plural) 1a) rulers, judges 1b) divine ones 1c) angels 1d) gods 2) (plural intensive-singular meaning)
2a) god, goddess 2b) godlike one 2c) works or special possessions of God 2d) the (true) God 2e) God
The Holy Spirit revealed this to the Apostle John which is the impetus by which he BEGINS his Gospel - the Gospel of John
John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Notice how John progresses from verse 1 to verse 2 and introduces TWO Distinct Individuals which are of ONE GOD
John 1:2 - He was with God in the beginning.
The SON shares in every aspect with the FATHER and as you study and pray thru the scripture you will SEE Jesus make claims of Himself that only the Father has of Himself.
i have to go now - be back later
SHALOM
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God is immortal, so He cannot die. His only begotten Son was not immortal - Jesus could die. Jesus humbly prayed to God that after his death that God would restore him to the glory that he had before the creation of the world - John 17:5 (WEB):
(5) Now, Father, glorify me with your own self with the glory which I had with you before the world existed.
but God didn't do that, instead He gave Jesus greater glory than he had previously, He gave him a new nature - the same immortal divine nature that God has - Philippians 2:5-11 (WEB):
(5) Have this in your mind, which was also in Christ Jesus,
(6) who, existing in the form of God, didn’t consider equality with God a thing to be grasped,
(7) but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men.
(8) And being found in human form, he humbled himself, becoming obedient to the point of death, yes, the death of the cross.
(9) Therefore God also highly exalted him, and gave to him the name which is above every name;
(10) that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, those on earth, and those under the earth,
(11) and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
So Jesus died, but he cannot die again; Jesus is now immortal - Revelation 1:18 (UASV+):
(18) and the living one, and I became dead, but look! I am living forever and ever, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.
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Wrangler
Well-Known Member
He cannot be equal to God in many ways.
1st, God is eternal. Jesus died.
2nd, God is Spirit. Jesus is flesh.
3rd, Son's are created Beings, by definition. God is not created.
4th, Jesus submitted to the will of God. God did not submit to Jesus' will.
5th, Jesus prayed to God. God did not pray to Jesus.
6th, God knows things Jesus does not.
7th God raised Jesus from the dead. Jesus did not raise God from the dead.
8th, God is synonymous with the Father. Jesus is synonymous with God's Anointed, aka "Son of God." (If they were equal, there would be no relational difference).
The other thing about Jesus Christ not knowing the Day or Hour, Christ was at this time found in the form of a man, He humbled Himself.
It is entirely possible that after He was glorified and went back to the glory they had together in the highest Heaven, He now knows the Day and Hour He will return. We can not know that for sure and if He does He won't tell anyone. Christ is back again seated with God on their heavenly throne.
The secret things belong to God.
The things that are revealed belong to us.
It is entirely possible that after He was glorified and went back to the glory they had together in the highest Heaven, He now knows the Day and Hour He will return. We can not know that for sure and if He does He won't tell anyone. Christ is back again seated with God on their heavenly throne.
The secret things belong to God.
The things that are revealed belong to us.
The Coming of the Son of Man
24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His [h]elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.The Parable of the Fig Tree
28 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender, and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 29 So you also, when you see these things happening, know that [i]it is near—at the doors! 30 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. 31 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.No One Knows the Day or Hour
32 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 33 Take heed, watch and pray; for you do not know when the time is. 34 It is like a man going to a far country, who left his house and gave authority to his servants, and to each his work, and commanded the doorkeeper to watch. 35 Watch therefore, for you do not know when the master of the house is coming—in the evening, at midnight, at the crowing of the rooster, or in the morning— 36 lest, coming suddenly, he find you sleeping. 37 And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch!”
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
No. Try a better translation that does not impost its doctine onto the text.
From the REV
5Have this mindset in you that was also in Christ Jesus,
6who, though being in the appearance of God,c did not consider equality with God something to be grasped at,
7but instead he emptied himself by taking the appearance of a servant, becoming like the rest of humankind. And being found as an ordinary human,d
8he humbled himself, becoming obedient unto death—even death on a cross!
9And therefore God raised him to the highest place of honor and gave him the name that is above every name,
Funny how trinitarians disregard the "NOT;" not equal is taken to mean equal. Also, notice v9. Who raised Jesus to the highest place of honor? God, in his unitarian nature. v9 makes no sense if Jesus were God.
Behold
Well-Known Member
When Jesus told the Pharisees that He is God......>"Before Abraham was born, I Am"...
So, the Jews understood that Jesus has just made Himself equal to God......in John 8, and they wanted to stone Him to death.
What is that?
That is God in the Flesh.... 1 Tim 3:16.... and John 1:10......"Jesus made the World'.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
You would probably agree that God the Father is God with no need for any explanation.
It's more difficult to explain God the Holy Spirit. Some want to view the Spirit as an extension of God the Father.
Yet the Bible defines Him as a person of the godhead with specific roles. Most importantly the distribution of spiritual gifts.
"All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines." - 1 Corinthians 12:11 NIV
The whole Trinity is present at the baptism of Christ. (God the Son)
The Spirit descended from heaven and alighting on him. (the Holy Spirit)
Then a voice from heaven spoke. (God the Father)
Matthew 3:16-17 NIV
As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water.
At that moment heaven was opened,
and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him.
17 And a voice from heaven said,
“This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”
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St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
I'm fine with the "not".
It means he was equal but did NOT take advantage. He put His deity aside.
Taking the form of a serpent, made in human likeness.
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He sure did die, and then went and preached to imprisoned spirits in hell.
So it is speaking of his bodily death, and of course His body was later resurrected.
Peter said death could not hold Christ, as He is the Life and the Resurrection The Prince of Life.
The Eternal Word
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not [a]comprehend it.Acts 3
13 The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified His Servant Jesus, whom you delivered up and denied in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let Him go. 14 But you denied the Holy One and the Just, and asked for a murderer to be granted to you, 15 and killed the [b]Prince of life, whom God raised from the dead, of which we are witnesses. 16 And His name, through faith in His name, has made this man strong, whom you see and know. Yes, the faith which comes through Him has given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.
17 “Yet now, brethren, I know that you did it in ignorance, as did also your rulers. 18 But those things which God foretold by the mouth of all His prophets, that the Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled. 19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, 20 and that He may send [c]Jesus Christ, who was [d]preached to you before, 21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since [e]the world began. 22 For Moses truly said to the fathers, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brethren. Him you shall hear in all things, whatever He says to you. 23 And it shall be that every soul who will not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.’ 24 Yes, and all the prophets, from Samuel and those who follow, as many as have spoken, have also [f]foretold these days. 25 You are sons of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying to Abraham, ‘And in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.’ 26 To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your iniquities.”
Acts 2
22 “Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know— 23 Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you [f]have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death; 24 whom God raised up, having [g]loosed the [h]pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it. 25 For David says concerning Him:
‘I foresaw the Lord always before my face,
For He is at my right hand, that I may not be shaken.
26 Therefore my heart rejoiced, and my tongue was glad;
Moreover my flesh also will rest in hope.
27 For You will not leave my soul in Hades,
Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption.
28 You have made known to me the ways of life;
You will make me full of joy in Your presence.’
29 “Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30 Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, [i]according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne, 31 he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption. 32 This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses. 33 Therefore being exalted [j]to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.
That was a completely different occasion. At the burning bush all that Moses could see was fire in the middle of a bush - Exodus 3:2-3 (UASV+):
(2) The angel of Jehovah appeared to him in a blazing fire from the midst of a bush; and he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, yet the bush was not consumed.
(3) And Moses said, "Let me turn aside to see this great sight, why the bush is not burned."
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