THE Trinity can Now be discussed.

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Scott Downey

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The Holy Spirit who does the will of the Father on earth, brought me Alive in my spirit, much more to it that that, Jesus did not birth my spirit, it’s because of Jesus death and resurrection that I can / have been grated into the vine of Jesus, it came through the power of the Father, not the Son, via His Living Holy Spirit, he is the one who keeps me walking in the spirit, as I’m Born Again, Born Of God ..His seed the Holy Spirit resides in my spirit, making me into Jesus image..Jesus isn’t doing that, he is sat at the right hand of the Father in heaven.

That’s my testimony and belief, if I’m in error the Holy Spirit will correct me..
Both the Father and the Son grant life to whom they will. And it is also the Father and Son who decides who will know them both.
Yes, they do that by making you born again, that is what the Holy Spirit does, as well as other things, like telling us of things to come, and bringing the word of God to our mind. He does the as He is Spirit and we are also living spirit, alive to God, so we can have a communication going on between us, we can hear God because we are of God as in Born of the Spirit

John 5

16 For this reason the Jews persecuted Jesus, [d]and sought to kill Him, because He had done these things on the Sabbath. 17 But Jesus answered them, “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.”

18 Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God. 19 Then Jesus answered and said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner. 20 For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself does; and He will show Him greater works than these, that you may marvel. 21 For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will. 22 For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son, 23 that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

They really do work together to bring people to GOD. Father and Son.

Luke 10

Jesus Rejoices in the Spirit​

21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in the Spirit and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and revealed them to babes. Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight.

22 All[g] things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.
 
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Taken

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You are deliberately confusing WHAT's with WHO's. Words are WHAT's. The chosen servant of God is a WHO.

No. i am deliberately speaking of Spiritual points from a spiritual standpoint, which should make No sense to a carnal minds understanding.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

David in NJ

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Are you referring here to us?..water off a ducks back if you are.

I haven’t got a clue what you are preaching here David..sounds like religion,.

What’s a Unitarian ?
Post 963 and the Question posed for @Wrangler and all on here will give you more info to decide.

Have to go to work now - SHALOM
 

David in NJ

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What are you talking about , decide what?.i have quite a few on ignore, so I won’t see their posts.
You can make an informed decision based on logic and faith by reviewing and determining God's answer to the question in Post 963
 

amigo de christo

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I agree with 3 = 1. :gd
IF what you mean by the THREE equals one
is GOD IS HIS SPIRIT HE IS HIS WORD , THEN AMEN cause that is a fact . HIS SPIRIT and HIS WORD are HIS OWN ESSENCE
that cometh forth of THE FATHER . THE SPIRIT OF GOD , IS THE SAME AS THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST .
My words are SPIRIT and they are LIFE .
I will send you the comforter . How will you manifest yourself to us and not the world .
BY THE SPIRIT . I WILL COME TO YOU , in fact HE says a bit farther one ME AND MY FATHER SHALL MAKE OUR ABODE
on that man . Tis why you often see paul write and say the SPIRIT OF GOD , SPIRIT OF CHRIST ,
GOD IS HIS SPIRIT HE IS HIS WORD . to the trenches for the father of lies
has brought the lie that will merge all the false to be as one , the false religoins and those within christendom that were LIP ONLY
and used HIS NAME as a means FOR SIN and A LIE . it cannot be stopped my friend .
I never seen a falling away , a delusion like the one i see today .
THEY are convincing even christendome to REMOVE THE CORNER STONE
and to build in their diverse inclusive tower WHICH HAS ABSOLUTELY NO CORNER STONE , NO FOUNDATION
it denies THAT CORNERSTONE and it will SINK in utter desteructoin on the day ofthe LORD . they build in vain friend .
THEY who build in the intefaith tower which they believe shall reach to heaven , WILLL COME crashing down
on the day of the LORD . and the very peace and safety of the world they so sought and beleived
this interfaith willl usher upon this world , USHERS ONLY SUDDEN DESTRUcTION upon them all ON THE DAY of the LORD .
they gots no idea satan has led them to their own destruction by appearing to be so lovingand so kind and so braod path .
 
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St. SteVen

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@Wrangler

QUESTION - Who did the Greater Work?

The FATHER delivering the Israelites from bondage under Pharoah/Egypt
or
the SON who delivers those bound by sin unto Eternal Forgiveness and Eternal Life?

[
 

Ritajanice

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Both the Father and the Son grant life to whom they will. And it is also the Father and Son who decides who will know them both.

In your opinion.
Yes, they do that by making you born again,
No they didn’t do it..the Holy Spirit birthed my spirit,he testifies Of Jesus on the cross and God who is Almighty.
that is what the Holy Spirit does, as well as other things, like telling us of things to come, and bringing the word of God to our mind. He does the as He is Spirit and we are also living spirit, alive to God, so we can have a communication going on between us, we can hear God because we are of God as in Born of the Spirit
We can hear God because he relays his message to us via his Holy Spirit....God is to big to send me a message, hence we must be Born Of The Spirit..not Jesus and not God.
John 5

16 For this reason the Jews persecuted Jesus, [d]and sought to kill Him, because He had done these things on the Sabbath. 17 But Jesus answered them, “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.”

18 Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God. 19 Then Jesus answered and said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner. 20 For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself does; and He will show Him greater works than these, that you may marvel. 21 For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will. 22 For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son, 23 that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

They really do work together to bring people to GOD. Father and Son.

Luke 10

Jesus Rejoices in the Spirit​

21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in the Spirit and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and revealed them to babes. Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight.

22 All[g] things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.
That’s your interpretation of scripture...not mine.
 

Ritajanice

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I didn't say that he succeeded.
But let's try a test.

How many Gods are there?

[
God, who is in heaven.i worship one God..no other.i thank Jesus for giving up his life and taking my sin onto him..because he was God’s Son...he isn’t God.
 

keithr

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I can't keep up with this discussion - the number of posts seems to be increasing exponentially! I'll contribute this extract from 'The Great Debate Regarding The Father, Son & Holy Spirit', appendix D, concerning John 1:1.

The only passage which even comes close to teaching the Trinity is 1 John 5:7, 8. But today it is common knowledge that the essential parts of this passage were not original scripture. The words at issue are an embellishment added to the text by an over-zealous scribe centuries after John died, and no reputable modern version even includes them.​
For this reason the focus of attention has turned to John 1:1. Clearly this does not teach the Trinity per se, because it does not even mention the holy Spirit, and one cannot have a "trinity" without three parties. But it does say "the Word was God" (King James translation), and this is close enough to one of the pieces of the Trinity to cause interest. What did John mean by this?​
There are three popular views:​
(1) He meant Jesus really was "God Himself"​
(2) He meant Jesus was "God-like"​
(3) He meant Jesus was "a god."​
Trinitarians are naturally drawn to the first view. But (other than all we have said above), this view is in danger of proving TOO MUCH -- that Jesus and God are the same person. Indeed, many trinitarians assert this without recognizing this is more like the heresy of Sabellius than the orthodox trinity.​
The problem becomes apparent when one compares John 1:1 with 1 John 1:2. Both texts are from the same author, about the same time, and express the same thoughts. John 1:1 says the Word was "with God," 1 John 1:2 says the Word was "with the Father." Clearly John intends that "God" was "the Father." Thus if John intends that the Word was "God Himself," he must mean the Word was "the Father" -- a conclusion no orthodox trinitarian can embrace. For this reason the majority of translators, including trinitarian translators, do not hold view one!​
Thus view 2. "When John said that the Word was God he was not saying that Jesus is identical with God; he was saying that Jesus is so perfectly the same as God in mind, in heart, in being, that in Jesus we perfectly see what God is like" (William Barclay, The Gospel of John, Vol. 1, page 17). In this camp are the following: William Barclay, Martin Vincent, J.P. Lange, Robert Young, Brook Foss Westcott, Kenneth Wuest, George Turner, Julius Mantey, H.E. Dana, Moulton and Moffat. Typical of this view is the REB translation: "The Word was in God's presence, and what God was, the Word was."​
It is possible that this was John's point. However, view 3 actually fits the context still better. As many Bible students are aware, the words "a" and "an" (called indefinite articles) do not exist in the Greek language. If one wished to say "I saw a tree," in Greek it would be "I saw tree" and everyone would know the intent is "a" tree. Therefore a translator would automatically supply it. This is done everywhere in the New Testament where the English word "a" or "an" appears.​
So in John 1:1. The text actually says "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God, and the Word was [a?] God." Should the translator supply the intended "a" or not? That is the question. Contrary to many vocal claims on this issue, it is a sound and reasonable thing to do. C. H. Dodd, driving force of the NEB, acknowledges "As a word-for-word translation it cannot be faulted." (Technical Papers for the Bible Translator, 28, Jan. 1977, page 101ff, cited from James Parkinson, "The Herald," Sept-Oct 1966, page 23). Notice that the translators of the King James version had no hesitation in using "a god" in Acts 28:6 where the context makes it obvious. (It also belongs in John 10:33, as the logic of Jesus' reply shows.)​
A very good reason for adding "a" in John 1:1 is John 1:18, but the point is hidden in the King James version. Today it is generally acknowledged that the better, earlier Greek manuscripts of this verse refer to Jesus as "the only begotten god" (see the NASB for example). John there says no one has ever seen "God," but "the only begotten god, which is in the bosom of the Father," has appeared to declare what God is about. First it is clear that by "God" John means "the Father." Second it is clear that John has two gods in mind -- God himself, the unseen, and the son of God, Jesus, who in his own right is also a mighty being, "a god." Since John 1:18 distinguishes two mighty beings, it is apparent that John 1:1 also distinguishes two mighty beings.​
 
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David in NJ

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IF what you mean by the THREE equals one
is GOD IS HIS SPIRIT HE IS HIS WORD , THEN AMEN cause that is a fact . HIS SPIRIT and HIS WORD are HIS OWN ESSENCE
that cometh forth of THE FATHER . THE SPIRIT OF GOD , IS THE SAME AS THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST .
My words are SPIRIT and they are LIFE .
I will send you the comforter . How will you manifest yourself to us and not the world .
BY THE SPIRIT . I WILL COME TO YOU , in fact HE says a bit farther one ME AND MY FATHER SHALL MAKE OUR ABODE
on that man . Tis why you often see paul write and say the SPIRIT OF GOD , SPIRIT OF CHRIST ,
GOD IS HIS SPIRIT HE IS HIS WORD . to the trenches for the father of lies
has brought the lie that will merge all the false to be as one , the false religoins and those within christendom that were LIP ONLY
and used HIS NAME as a means FOR SIN and A LIE . it cannot be stopped my friend .
I never seen a falling away , a delusion like the one i see today .
THEY are convincing even christendome to REMOVE THE CORNER STONE
and to build in their diverse inclusive tower WHICH HAS ABSOLUTELY NO CORNER STONE , NO FOUNDATION
it denies THAT CORNERSTONE and it will SINK in utter desteructoin on the day ofthe LORD . they build in vain friend .
THEY who build in the intefaith tower which they believe shall reach to heaven , WILLL COME crashing down
on the day of the LORD . and the very peace and safety of the world they so sought and beleived
this interfaith willl usher upon this world , USHERS ONLY SUDDEN DESTRUcTION upon them all ON THE DAY of the LORD .
they gots no idea satan has led them to their own destruction by appearing to be so lovingand so kind and so braod path .
@LatterRain

Romans 8:9
But you are not in the flesh but in the (1)Spirit, if indeed the (2)Spirit of God dwells in you.
Now if anyone does not have the (3)Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

same GOD
 

Grailhunter

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The doctrines out of the Catholic Church are all wrong. The one God formula for the Trinity….Original Sin….That the highest form of Christian living is celibacy.

For the effort to rescue Bible Only people is to tell them to retire the King James Version of the Bible….I am not saying to throw them away…..I collect old KJVs particularly the illustrated table top editions. They are just no good for Christian study.
 

David in NJ

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I can't keep up with this discussion - the number of posts seems to be increasing exponentially! I'll contribute this extract from 'The Great Debate Regarding The Father, Son & Holy Spirit', appendix D, concerning John 1:1.

The only passage which even comes close to teaching the Trinity is 1 John 5:7, 8. But today it is common knowledge that the essential parts of this passage were not original scripture. The words at issue are an embellishment added to the text by an over-zealous scribe centuries after John died, and no reputable modern version even includes them.​
For this reason the focus of attention has turned to John 1:1. Clearly this does not teach the Trinity per se, because it does not even mention the holy Spirit, and one cannot have a "trinity" without three parties. But it does say "the Word was God" (King James translation), and this is close enough to one of the pieces of the Trinity to cause interest. What did John mean by this?​
There are three popular views:​
(1) He meant Jesus really was "God Himself"​
(2) He meant Jesus was "God-like"​
(3) He meant Jesus was "a god."​
Trinitarians are naturally drawn to the first view. But (other than all we have said above), this view is in danger of proving TOO MUCH -- that Jesus and God are the same person. Indeed, many trinitarians assert this without recognizing this is more like the heresy of Sabellius than the orthodox trinity.​
The problem becomes apparent when one compares John 1:1 with 1 John 1:2. Both texts are from the same author, about the same time, and express the same thoughts. John 1:1 says the Word was "with God," 1 John 1:2 says the Word was "with the Father." Clearly John intends that "God" was "the Father." Thus if John intends that the Word was "God Himself," he must mean the Word was "the Father" -- a conclusion no orthodox trinitarian can embrace. For this reason the majority of translators, including trinitarian translators, do not hold view one!​
Thus view 2. "When John said that the Word was God he was not saying that Jesus is identical with God; he was saying that Jesus is so perfectly the same as God in mind, in heart, in being, that in Jesus we perfectly see what God is like" (William Barclay, The Gospel of John, Vol. 1, page 17). In this camp are the following: William Barclay, Martin Vincent, J.P. Lange, Robert Young, Brook Foss Westcott, Kenneth​
Wuest, George Turner, Julius Mantey, H.E. Dana, Moulton and Moffat. Typical of this view is the REB translation: "The Word was in God's presence, and what God was, the Word was."​
It is possible that this was John's point. However, view 3 actually fits the context still better. As many Bible students are aware, the words "a" and "an" (called indefinite articles) do not exist in the Greek language. If one wished to say "I saw a tree," in Greek it would be "I saw tree" and everyone would know the intent is "a" tree. Therefore a translator would automatically supply it. This is done everywhere in the New Testament where the English word "a" or "an" appears.​
So in John 1:1. The text actually says "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God, and the Word was [a?] God." Should the translator supply the intended "a" or not? That is the question. Contrary to many vocal claims on this issue, it is a sound and reasonable thing to do. C. H. Dodd, driving force of the NEB, acknowledges "As a word-for-word translation it cannot be faulted." (Technical Papers for the Bible Translator, 28, Jan. 1977, page 101ff, cited from James Parkinson, "The Herald," Sept-Oct 1966, page 23). Notice that the translators of the King James version had no hesitation in using "a god" in Acts 28:6 where the context makes it obvious. (It also belongs in John 10:33, as the logic of Jesus' reply shows.)​
A very good reason for adding "a" in John 1:1 is John 1:18, but the point is hidden in the King James version. Today it is generally acknowledged that the better, earlier Greek manuscripts of this verse refer to Jesus as "the only begotten god" (see the NASB for example). John there says no one has ever seen "God," but "the only begotten god, which is in the bosom of the Father," has appeared to declare what God is about. First it is clear that by "God" John means "the Father." Second it is clear that John has two gods in mind -- God himself, the unseen, and the son of God, Jesus, who in his own right is also a mighty being, "a god." Since John 1:18 distinguishes two mighty beings, it is apparent that John 1:1 also distinguishes two mighty beings.​
Good Morning @keithr

i know you appreciate logic so i have a 'logic' question for you.

JESUS said: "My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.”

@Wrangler @Aunty Jane believe that the FATHER did this "Work" when HE delivered the Israelites from bondage to Pharoah/Egypt

Deuteronomy 5:6-7
I am the Lord your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
‘You shall have no other gods before Me.

GOSPEL
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!
GOSPEL
Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

QUESTION - Who did the Greater Work?

The FATHER delivering the Israelites from bondage under Pharoah/Egypt
or
the SON who delivers those bound by sin unto Eternal Forgiveness and Eternal Life?
 
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