The Sun, God's tool to change the World

[Douggg]

There will be sacrifices made again in the new Temple and faithful Christians will do it.

The persons doing the animal sacrifices that the Antichrist will stop, will be Jews (Judaism). Christians have not been instructed to build a temple on the temple mount, nor do animal sacrifices.

Do you acknowledge that there are groups in current Israel dedicated to rebuilding the temple and starting animal sacrifices again ?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

As Bible prophecy does tell us that a Coronal Mass Ejection, an explosion of the sun’s surface is what the Lord will use on His Day of wrath, Isaiah 30:26a-30, Psalms 50:1-2, Malachi 4:1, +, we should know what a CME is and what it can do.
Briefly: On the Appointed Day, Isaiah 10:17, the sun will explode out a huge, earth directed mass of superheated hydrogen plasma. The initial super bright flash, Isaiah 30:26, and the Electro- Magnetic Pulse will arrive here within 8 minutes, causing armed nuke weapons to explode, Jeremiah 49:35,; all electrical and modern communication systems will be destroyed. The EMP microwave effect will also cause tectonic plate movement, Deuteronomy 32:22 resulting in severe worldwide earthquakes and tsunamis.
The sun will be darkened by being obscured by the approaching mass and the moon will shine bright red from the reflection of the seven times brighter sun flash.
24 hours after the explosion, the main mass of superheated Hydrogen Plasma will strike the earth, directly onto the Middle East, Zephaniah 2:4, wiping out the entire population, excepting a small remnant in Jerusalem. Isaiah 29:4, Jeremiah 10:18, Psalms 97:3-5, Zephaniah 1:14-18;+ [God's perfect solution to the ME crisis]
But as the earth is rotating and moving at 66,000mph on its orbital track, it quickly moves away and the rest of the world won't be so badly affected. The survivor's will form a One World Government, but we Christians will gather and live in all of the holy Land. Ezekiel 34:11-31, Psalms 107, Isaiah 35:1-10

The great Day of the Lord's wrath; the Sixth Seal, will come upon everyone the whole world over. Luke 21:34-35 Proved by how Revelation 6:15 covers every person. Isaiah 24:1-2, Zephaniah 3:8, 2 Peter 3:7
No one will be taken away before this great test of our faith, 1 Peter 4:12, we will all see the cosmic effects and experience the devastation of that Day. Jeremiah 25:29-33
There are some signs to happen before that Day, we should know about. The 'sign of the fig tree budding', has occurred with the Jews establishing their own State in a part of the holy Land. Jesus said: the generation that see’s this, will [can] live to see it all. Matthew 24:32-34, Ezekiel 12:25
Another prophecy that requires fulfilment before that Day, is Isaiah 3:1-7 and it may be that Micah 5:1 will precede it.

Isaiah 3:1-7 is specifically about Judah and Jerusalem. It says that they will lose their good leaders and the Lord will appoint incompetent youths to govern.
This prophecy has not been fulfilled as Written, so must belong to the present day. Judah is a nation, they control Jerusalem and they have a strong and experienced leader in Benyamin Netanyahu. If anything happened to him, they would be in disarray.
Micah 5:1, is an interesting verse without any context to help explain it, says how Israel's ruler will be struck on the cheek with a rod. A 'rod' is a slang term for a rifle and today it is possible for a sniper to accurately hit people at ranges of up to 2 miles.

The world is plainly, as in the days of Noah, as they and now we; think is normal life. BUT they and now the modern world, have sidelined their Creator. People say 'there is no God' and the bulk of humans, just ignore the One true God and worship materialism, idols or false gods. God will correct the situation; He did so before and He will do it again!
Isaiah 3:8-26, goes on to tell how rebel Judah will be brought low; the look on their faces testifies against them! Amazing prophecy, that perfectly fits the arrogant, LGBT and 'stiff necked' people who live in Israel now.
The Lord says: on that Day, I will take away your pride, instead of perfume there will be the stink of decay.....your men will fall by the Sword of the Lord and Zion will be stripped bare. Wait for the Day!

Maybe, maybe not. To say with the certainty you teach is the height of hubris and arrogance. YOu need to be more careful in these prognostications.

God is going to do something with teh sun, but what is still unknown. You should not take the mantle up of David Wilkerson and Hal Lindsey.

 

[Keraz]

The persons doing the animal sacrifices that the Antichrist will stop, will be Jews (Judaism). Christians have not been instructed to build a temple on the temple mount, nor do animal sacrifices.

Do you acknowledge that there are groups in current Israel dedicated to rebuilding the temple and starting animal sacrifices again ?

Those fringe groups will never rebuild a Temple. The secular Govt of Israel will never allow it. Their silly looking red heifers, are just a joke.
Gods faithful people, the Christians, have been instructed the build a new Temple and to reinstate the Temple practices. Ezekiel 40 to 46

You fail to read or understand the 20+ Prophesies which plainly describe the virtual demise of Jewish Israel. Just read carefully Ezekiel 21:1-17 and Paul confirms that only a remnant will survive. Romans 9:27

 

[Keraz]

Maybe, maybe not. To say with the certainty you teach is the height of hubris and arrogance. YOu need to be more careful in these prognostications.

God is going to do something with teh sun, but what is still unknown. You should not take the mantle up of David Wilkerson and Hal Lindsey.

You are the one who says you are called to explain and interpret Prophecy.
That too; is my calling at this time of my life.

So what puzzles me is you saying; what God will do is unknown, when over a quarter of our Bible is telling us what God plans to do.
We are told how He will use the sun to change the world, to a similar extent as He did in the days of Noah. Isaiah 30:26a, is the proof of how the Lord will cause the sun to suddenly flash 7 times brighter and the moon to shine as bright as the sun.
It doesn't take a genius to understand there will be a massive explosion of the suns surface, something we have seen just lately, as smaller Coronal Mas Ejections. The moon will do what the moon does; that is; reflect the suns light.
The result of that soon to happen CME of unprecedented magnitude, is vividly described in Isaiah 30:27-28 & 30. Also in Isaiah 30:26b & 29, how the Lord will save and protect His faithful Christian peoples.

Far from me becoming as revered as Wilkerson and Lindsey, I am just a simple promoter of what the Prophetic Word really says.
And what it does not say. For example, the Bible never says the Lord will take His people up to heaven.

 

[TribulationSigns]

The animal sacrifices are among the commandments of God; During the millennial period, Israel will be keeping the commandments of God. Therefore, there will be animal sacrifices in the millennial kingdom.
In my view, during the Millennial kingdom they will make atonement sacrifices as commanded by Moses. You argue that atonement sacrifices are not necessary anymore.

To that, I made two arguments. First, as Paul said, it was never possible for atonement sacrifices to take away sins. It wasn't possible then, and so it won't be possible in the future. Therefore, any future atonement sacrifices will not be insulting to the cross or Jesus Christ. Second, while the original purpose of the atonement sacrifices was reconciliation with God, the atonement sacrifices will serve a different purpose in the millennial kingdom.

I do believe that the atonement sacrifices will be offered for atonement. In order to understand this, we need to abandon our erroneous view of the sacrifices. Christians tend to think of the sacrifices in economic terms, which is foreign to Moses. According to the penal-substitution theory of the atonement, if one commits a sin, which is understood as a debt to divine justice, one owes God a lamb, a goat, or a bull until the debt is paid. This model, this interpretation of the sacrifices is not Biblical.

What is the actual purpose of the atonement sacrifice? If one were to offer God a lamb as payment for sins, then it would no longer be called "a sacrifice." When we pay our electric bill, for instance, we are not making an offering to the power company; we are providing money to the power company in exchange for the delivery of electricity. The sacrifice of a lamb is an offering to God to signify contrition and to appeal for reconciliation, not a financial compensation. The Lord, through Moses, gave those living under the original covenant the means whereby the penitent might give expression to righteous sentiments.

The atonement sacrifice was offered to give outward expression to a (supposed) inward attitude toward the situation. The atonement sacrifice speaks to the issue of sin, in a visible way, agreeing with God's opinion of the situation. If a man wants to seek reconciliation with God, he must act as if he agrees with God's opinion on the matter. God doesn't need sacrifices, sometimes he doesn't want then, and he says he hates them. But he is willing to offer reconciliation to a man (or woman) who make an offering in genuine and sincere contrition.

The Lord didn't institute the sacrifices for his own sake, he instituted them for the sake of his people. His people need and want a means to give expression to righteous sentiment. A man doesn't need to offer a lamb to find reconciliation with God; but the man offers the lamb in order to give heart-felt expression to his opinion concerning his sin. He tells God, "I agree with you Lord. What I did was wrong, evil, and deserves your wrath. Please accept my apology and restore me to your favor."

Even Christians, who already know that reconciliation with God came through the blood of Christ, get on their knees and pray for forgiveness when they sin. Some Christians seek a tangible way to give expression to their heart-felt contrition, perhaps confessing sins to a priest, or perhaps giving to charity, or what-have-you. The point is, those who are weak in faith both need and want ritualistic forms of heart-felt attitudes toward God. Mankind invented religion for that purpose. The Lord, through Moses, gave his people certain religious forms, done properly, so that his people might have a tangible way to express righteous sentiments.

Not a single Scripture to support your rants. Your position is purely speculation and unbiblical.

You won't be chuckling when it happens and you won't know which way to turn.

It won't happen. You will end up being disappointed and ashamed of your false interpretation on the last day. No need for sunscreen. :)

 

[Keraz]

2 Esdras 15&16 These are the words of the Lord: I shall show sinners no pity, My sword will not spare those murderers who stain the ground with innocent blood.
My anger has burst out in flame, scorching the earth to its foundations and consuming sinners like burning straw. Woe to sinners who flout My commands, I shall show them no mercy. I well know all who offend against Me, I consign them to death and destruction.

See the clouds – full of fury and tempest, their appearance is hideous. They will let loose a vast storm over the land. There will be terror and trembling throughout the world, people will shudder, stricken with panic. Huge clouds will pile up and ravage the whole land and its inhabitants. A terrible storm will sweep over all that is high and exalted, with fire and hail and flying swords.

Strong is the arm that bends the bow and sharp the arrows that He shoots. Once they are on their way, nothing will stop them until they reach the ends of the earth. Calamities are let loose and will not turn back. The fire is alight and will not be put out. When the scorching heat bears down upon you, your strength and splendour will wither like a flower. When the Lord sends calamities, who can avert them? When His anger bursts into flame, who can extinguish it? When the lightning flashes and it thunders, who will not quake with dread? [describing a CME sunstrike]

But you, servants of the Lord, listen and learn. This is His Word: take it to heart and do not doubt what He says: Calamities are close at hand and will not be delayed. As a woman giving birth suffers pangs, then comes the birth; similarly calamities will come and the world will groan under the pangs that beset it. My people, get ready and when these disasters surround you, behave as if you are strangers on earth.

Listen, you whom I have chosen, says the Lord: the days of harsh suffering are close at hand, but I shall rescue you from them. Have done with fears and doubts! God is your guide. As followers of My commandments and instructions, you must not let your sins weigh you down or any wickedness gain the ascendancy.

Woe to those who are entangled in their sins and overrun by their wicked deeds! They are like a field where the path is entwined with thorns and there is no way through. They are separated off in readiness for destruction by fire.
Ref: REB Apocrypha

This passage from the prophet Ezra, describes very well how the Lord will act on the terrible Day of His vengeance and wrath. Isaiah 63:1-6, Ezekiel 21:7, Isaiah 33:14, Jeremiah 30:4-7, Isaiah 13:6-16, Isaiah 30:26-30, Revelation 6:12-17.

But those Christian people who trust and believe in His salvation will be saved. They are told to be prepared – that is, be aware of what will happen, so as not to be taken by surprise. There is not a rapture, removal: ‘these calamities will surround you’.
THEN; God’s righteous servants will soon gather and settle into New Israel.

Isaiah 30:29 For you there will be songs and gladness of heart, as you march to music, on the way to the Mountain of the Lord; the Rock of Israel. Isaiah 12:1-6

 

[TheHC]

“The Sun” can refer to Jehovah’s displeasure. (Isaiah 49:10)
It does not have to be understood literally.

 

[Keraz]

The Sun” can refer to Jehovah’s displeasure. (Isaiah 49:10)

Isaiah 49:10 tells us how the Lord will help His people, as they travel to the holy Land. Isaiah 66:18b-21, Romans 9:24-26

It does not have to be understood literally.

Isaiah 30:26-30, plainly states what will happen to the sun and the moon, on the Day of the Lords fiery wrath. A literal event on a iteral day,
Don't you think that it's about time the Lord sorted out the mess the world is in now?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Isaiah 49:10 tells us how the Lord will help His people, as they travel to the holy Land. Isaiah 66:18b-21, Romans 9:24-26

Isaiah 30:26-30, plainly states what will happen to the sun and the moon, on the Day of the Lords fiery wrath. A literal event on a iteral day,
Don't you think that it's about time the Lord sorted out the mess the world is in now?

If it was time, it would happen. but many things have to take place still before the Lord physically returns to earth to establish His millenial kingdom.

 

[Jay Ross]

If it was time, it would happen. but many things have to take place still before the Lord physically returns to earth to establish His millenial kingdom.

Does not the Statue prophecy of Daniel 2 tell us when God will establish His Everlasting Kingdom which will never be destroyed. Sadly the established Everlasting Kingdom is often referred to as the Millenium Kingdom that will be established by Christ but this is false interpretation of Rev 20:4-6: -

Revelation 20:4-6: - 4 Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

5 The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

This passage talks of a Priestly reign and not of a Kingly reign.

In this prophetic statement we are told that God will establish His Everlasting Kingdom: -

Daniel 2:44-45: - 44 And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever. 45 Inasmuch as you saw that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold — the great God has made known to the king what will come to pass after this. The dream is certain, and its interpretation is sure.”

God will establish His Everlasting Kingdom in around 20 years' time when the Kings of the earth assemble at Armageddon to be judged.

Shalom

 

[Johann]

Does not the Statue prophecy of Daniel 2 tell us when God will establish His Everlasting Kingdom which will never be destroyed. Sadly the established Everlasting Kingdom is often referred to as the Millenium Kingdom that will be established by Christ but this is false interpretation of Rev 20:4-6: -

Daniel 2: The Everlasting Kingdom
Daniel 2:44-45 (ESV):
"And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed, nor shall the kingdom be left to another people. It shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand forever, just as you saw that a stone was cut from a mountain by no human hand, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold. A great God has made known to the king what shall be after this. The dream is certain, and its interpretation sure."

Key Points:
Context: Daniel 2 describes a vision given to King Nebuchadnezzar, which Daniel interprets. The vision depicts a statue made of various materials, symbolizing successive world empires (Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome).
Everlasting Kingdom: The prophecy culminates with a stone "cut out without hands" striking the statue and becoming a great mountain that fills the whole earth. This stone represents God's kingdom, which will be established during the time of these earthly kingdoms but will outlast and surpass them all, never to be destroyed.
Revelation 20: The Millennium Kingdom
Revelation 20:4-6 (ESV):
"Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years."

Key Points:
Context: Revelation 20 is part of John's vision on the island of Patmos, where he sees the future unfolding of God's plan, including the defeat of Satan and the reign of Christ.
Millennium: This passage describes a thousand-year period where Christ reigns with His saints, who have been resurrected and given authority to judge. This period, known as the Millennium, is characterized by peace and justice, but it is not eternal. It precedes the final judgment and the creation of a new heaven and new earth.
Clarification and Interpretation:
Different Kingdoms:

The Everlasting Kingdom in Daniel 2 refers to God's final and eternal kingdom, which will replace all earthly kingdoms and last forever.
The Millennium in Revelation 20 refers to a specific thousand-year reign of Christ on earth, which is a precursor to the final eternal state but not itself eternal.
Common Misinterpretation:

Some people mistakenly equate the Millennium with the Everlasting Kingdom. However, the Millennium is a temporary period within God's broader plan, whereas the Everlasting Kingdom is eternal.
Scriptural Support for Differentiation:

Isaiah 9:7 (ESV): "Of the increase of his government and of peace there will be no end, on the throne of David and over his kingdom, to establish it and to uphold it with justice and with righteousness from this time forth and forevermore. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will do this."
Luke 1:32-33 (ESV): "He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. And the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end."
Hebrews 12:28 (ESV): "Therefore let us be grateful for receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, and thus let us offer to God acceptable worship, with reverence and awe."
Conclusion:
The prophecy in Daniel 2 and the vision in Revelation 20 refer to different aspects of God's redemptive plan. Daniel 2's prophecy speaks of the ultimate and everlasting kingdom that God will establish, which will never be destroyed. Revelation 20 describes the Millennium, a distinct thousand-year reign of Christ on earth. Understanding these differences is crucial to accurately interpreting biblical prophecy and recognizing the full scope of God's plan for His kingdom.

Shalom.

 

[Jay Ross]

Context: Daniel 2 describes a vision given to King Nebuchadnezzar, which Daniel interprets. The vision depicts a statue made of various materials, symbolizing successive world empires (Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome).

From my reading of the scriptures, I find no reference to the statue "symbolizing successive world empires". This is a man-made construct created at the time of the reformation.

The statue represents empires, nations and kingdoms that will have dominion over the Land of Babylon. Sadly, we must read Jeremiah 50 to get further insight into the statue prophecy as Daniel did not get told everything. Some 19 years later, God filled in the gaps of Daniel's understanding where Jeremiah records that the Land of Babylon will be made desolate and will be devastated for a period of two ages until in 1926 it was remembered once more to receive God's cup of wrath. (Rev 16:19: - 19 The great city was split into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell, [b}and God remembered Babylon the great, to make her drain the cup of the wine of the fury of his wrath.[/b])

As such, Rome has had no part to play in the Daniel 2's statue prophecy.

The prophecy culminates with a stone "cut out without hands" striking the statue and becoming a great mountain that fills the whole earth. This stone represents God's kingdom, which will be established during the time of these earthly kingdoms but will outlast and surpass them all, never to be destroyed.

In Daniel 2:34-35 then is no mention of a kingdom being established but we are told that the stone became a great mountain that filled the whole earth. Metaphorically a mountain represents a "religion or a system of worship. Now the foundational stone that came down out of heaven was the truth that was spoken about on the mountain of the transfiguration of Christ, where Christ spoke of this truth, That Jesus is the Son of God," becoming the foundation stone of the religion that will grow out of this stone. You can read it for yourself: -

Daniel 2:34-35: - 34 You watched while a stone was cut out without hands, which struck the image on its feet of iron and clay, and broke them in pieces. 35 Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold were crushed together, and became like chaff from the summer threshing floors; the wind carried them away so that no trace of them was found. And the stone that struck the image became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.

Now the stone does not represent God's Everlasting kingdom, but the stone will be the foundation stone of the religion that will be formed from the time that the stone comes down out of heaven.

Now Daniel 2:44-45 tells us that God's establishment of His everlasting Kingdom during the time of these kings is not linked directly to the Stone but is something that God does in establishing his everlasting kingdom. Daniel is not told what God's plans are for this time, but other prophets of this same era were told. What verse 45 does tell us is that the foundation stone of the mountain, which represents God religious purpose for all of mankind is what will grind all the other parts of the statue into dust so that the winds of heaven can carry the dust away.

Daniel 2:44-45: - 44 And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever. 45 Inasmuch as you saw that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold — the great God has made known to the king what will come to pass after this. The dream is certain, and its interpretation is sure.”

What will also happen at the time of these kings? They will be gathered together at Armageddon to be judged. God will remove all of the Heavenly beasts from the face of earth for a period of 1,000 years. That God will gather all of Israel to Himself and will plant them in His fertile field and teach them about the religion/mountain that will become the greatest mountain in all of the earth. That God will make like new again the covenant that he had entered into the House of Israel to become a kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and His possession among the nations, where they are living scattered throughout the whole earth.

It is my understanding that much of this will be achieved in around 20 years time.

Shalom

 

[Johann]

In Daniel 2:34-35 then is no mention of a kingdom being established but we are told that the stone became a great mountain that filled the whole earth. Metaphorically a mountain represents a "religion or a system of worship. Now the foundational stone that came down out of heaven was the truth that was spoken about on the mountain of the transfiguration of Christ, where Christ spoke of this truth, That Jesus is the Son of God," becoming the foundation stone of the religion that will grow out of this stone. You can read it for yourself: -

My interpretation-

"The prophecy culminates with a stone 'cut out without hands' striking the statue and becoming a great mountain that fills the whole earth. This stone represents God's kingdom, which will be established during the time of these earthly kingdoms but will outlast and surpass them all, never to be destroyed."

Counter Interpretation @Jay Ross


Daniel 2:34-35 does not mention a kingdom being established.
The stone represents a foundational truth rather than God's everlasting kingdom.
Daniel 2:44-45 mentions God's kingdom but does not link it directly to the stone.

Biblical Text Analysis
Daniel 2:34-35 (NKJV)
"You watched while a stone was cut out without hands, which struck the image on its feet of iron and clay, and broke them in pieces. Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold were crushed together, and became like chaff from the summer threshing floors; the wind carried them away so that no trace of them was found. And the stone that struck the image became a great mountain and filled the whole earth."

Daniel 2:44-45 (NKJV)
"And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever. Inasmuch as you saw that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold — the great God has made known to the king what will come to pass after this. The dream is certain, and its interpretation is sure."

Key Points
My interpretation--

The stone represents God's kingdom.
The kingdom will outlast and surpass earthly kingdoms and will never be destroyed.
Counter Interpretation:

The stone represents a foundational truth (Jesus as the Son of God).
The kingdom in Daniel 2:44-45 is God's everlasting kingdom but is not directly linked to the stone.
The stone is the foundation of a religious system rather than the kingdom itself.

Examination of the Biblical Text
Daniel 2:34-35: The passage describes a stone cut without hands that destroys the statue representing earthly kingdoms and becomes a great mountain that fills the earth. This imagery aligns with my interpretation, where the stone symbolizes a divine kingdom overpowering all others.

Daniel 2:44-45: This passage explicitly mentions God setting up an everlasting kingdom during the time of these kings. The stone cut without hands, breaking the earthly kingdoms, indicates a divine intervention that establishes a new, eternal order.

Conclusion
Biblically, my interpretation seems more accurate:

The stone becoming a great mountain signifies a divine, everlasting kingdom, which aligns with the description in Daniel 2:44-45 of God's kingdom that will never be destroyed and will consume all other kingdoms.

The stone's divine origin ("cut out without hands") suggests a supernatural establishment, fitting the context of God's eternal kingdom replacing earthly powers.

The counter interpretation's emphasis on the stone as a foundational truth (Jesus as the Son of God) and a religious system is not directly supported by the text, which more strongly suggests the stone represents God's kingdom in a comprehensive and eternal sense. Therefore, my interpretation aligns more closely with the biblical narrative in Daniel 2.

Shalom
J.

 

[Jay Ross]

Key Points
My interpretation--

The stone represents God's kingdom.
The kingdom will outlast and surpass earthly kingdoms and will never be destroyed.

I have no objection to you holding this expressed POV, however, in my understanding of the Prophecy, the Roman Empire is not mentioned in any of the prophecies such that the Roman Empire would hold dominion over the land of Babylon.

From my point of View, it is best that we agree to disagree as I believe that you cannot justify your understanding and that you will not accept that my understanding is closer to God's truth. We have both come to an intransient position on the understanding of the Daniel 2 Statue and our respective stubbornness will not allow either of us to submit to the other's POV.

Shalom

 

[Douggg]

The statue represents empires, nations and kingdoms that will have dominion over the Land of Babylon

No, the statue overall represents two eras.

The first era, the dominant kingdoms between Daniel's time and the first Advent of Jesus
The second era, the the dominant end times kingdom at the time of the Second Coming of Jesus.


Gold -Babylonian kingdom
Silver - Medes/Persian kingdom
Brass - Greek kingdom
Iron - Roman kingdom - Jesus's first advent

Iron and clay - end times Roman kingdom - Jesus's second coming

 

[Jay Ross]

No, the statue overall represents two eras.

The first era, the dominant kingdoms between Daniel's time and the first Advent of Jesus
The second era, the the dominant end times kingdom at the time of the Second Coming of Jesus.


Gold -Babylonian kingdom
Silver - Medes/Persian kingdom
Brass - Greek kingdom
Iron - Roman kingdom - Jesus's first advent

Iron and clay - end times Roman kingdom - Jesus's second coming

Douggg, you are a stubborn person, typical of someone who has an engineering background.

You need to read more of the scriptures instead of only adopting the teachings from the Reformation period, around 500 years ago because the Reformation fathers cooked to books so to speak to achieve the particular political outcome of splitting away from the RCC.

The Daniel 2 statue prophecy was only about "the land of Babylon" and the nations/empires that actually had dominion over the land of Babylon.

The Roman Empire did not establish dominion over the land of Babylon even though they tried and the Land of Babylon remained desolate and devasted for two ages from around 120 BC, when the Seleucid Greek Empire carted off the people of Babylon and resettled them within the boundaries of their empire, until 1926 AD when the British and French governments divided up the Otterman Empire after WW1 and established the nation of Iraq to have dominion over the land of Babylon.

The middle eastern history confirms this.

So douggg, the five segments of the statue prophecy are

Babylon
Medes and Persians
Greek empire and after Alexandra the Great, the Seleucid Greek Empire

Then in Jeremiah 50 we are told that the land of Babylon lay desolated and devasted for "dō·wr wā·ḏō·wr", i.e., for an age plus/and an age, or in modern terms "for two ages"

Then in 1926

Iraq had dominion over the land of Babylon

and then in 2003

The Coalition of the willing invaded Babylon to heal the Land in association with the Iraq people.

Douggg, even you should be able to remember these last two people groups who had dominion over the Land of Babylon. It is now an historical fact.

The last two segments of the statue Prophecy took place while Israel was seeking after God, which they still are doing.

Perhaps if you read Jeremiah 50-51, you might be able to discern that the above is true.

Goodbye

PS: - Please Note that the last two segments have and are occurring in our present time.

 

[Douggg]

So douggg, the five segments of the statue prophecy are

Babylon
Medes and Persians
Greek empire and after Alexandra the Great, the Seleucid Greek Empire

Jay, identify each kingdom with its metal.

gold... ?

silver.... ?

brass.... ?

iron..... ?

iron mixed with clay.... ?

 

[Jay Ross]

QUOTE="Douggg, post: 1855801, member: 9532"]
Jay, identify each kingdom with its metal.

gold... Babylon

silver.... Medes and Persians empire

brass.... Grecian empire

iron..... Iraq, the nation created in 1926 by Britian and France while dividing up the Otterman Empire

iron mixed with clay.... The coalition of the willing under the umbrella/leadership of the USA invaded Iraq to heal the land
/QUOTE]


The first three segments can be determined from the scriptures.

The fourth segment is determined from Rev 16:19 where reference is made to WW1 in the seventh bowl judgement and history.

The fifth segment can be found in Jeremiah where the King of the North and with many kings joining him invaded Iraq to heal the land, but the coalition of the willing crumbled and fell apart and the USA is basically the last bastion of the coalition that has some dominion over the Land of Babylon/Iraq still today. This can be found in Jeremaih 50-51 if you would take the time to read. It might help you understand the end times more as it explains the consequences of the joint kings invasion of the Land of Babylon in 2003 AD.

Goodbye

 

[Douggg]

QUOTE="Douggg, post: 1855801, member: 9532"]
Jay, identify each kingdom with its metal.

gold... Babylon

silver.... Medes and Persians empire

brass.... Grecian empire

iron..... Iraq, the nation created in 1926 by Britian and France while dividing up the Otterman Empire

iron mixed with clay.... The coalition of the willing under the umbrella/leadership of the USA invaded Iraq to heal the land
/QUOTE]


The first three segments can be determined from the scriptures.

The fourth segment is determined from Rev 16:19 where reference is made to WW1 in the seventh bowl judgement and history.

The fifth segment can be found in Jeremiah where the King of the North and with many kings joining him invaded Iraq to heal the land, but the coalition of the willing crumbled and fell apart and the USA is basically the last bastion of the coalition that has some dominion over the Land of Babylon/Iraq still today. This can be found in Jeremaih 50-51 if you would take the time to read. It might help you understand the end times more as it explains the consequences of the joint kings invasion of the Land of Babylon in 2003 AD.

Goodbye

Thanks for the response regarding matching the metals to the kingdoms.

We disagree on the iron kingdom identity and the iron mixed with clay identity.

I think...

gold... Babylon

silver.... Medes and Persians empire

brass.... Grecian empire

iron..... Roman Empire

iron mixed with clay.... Roman Empire in the end-times, i.e. the E.U.

Jeremiah 50-51, that you referenced, is about the prophesied destruction of ancient Babylon. So those two chapters do not apply to the end times

 

[Jay Ross]

Thanks for the response regarding matching the metals to the kingdoms.

We disagree on the iron kingdom identity and the iron mixed with clay identity.

I think...

gold... Babylon

silver.... Medes and Persians empire

brass.... Grecian empire

iron..... Roman Empire

iron mixed with clay.... Roman Empire in the end-times, i.e. the E.U.

Jeremiah 50-51, that you referenced, is about the prophesied destruction of ancient Babylon. So those two chapters do not apply to the end times

Douggg you need to read Jeremaih 50-51 slowly and carefully understand the Hebrew text as you are missing what these two chapters are presenting.

Jeremaih 50:39: -
39 "Therefore the wild desert beasts shall dwell there with the jackals,
And the ostriches shall dwell in it.
Nor shall it be inhabited for a long period of time beyond our comprehension,
It shall not be dwelt in for two ages.

My Paraphrase of this verse. If you disagree with the way I have translated the Hebrew text and its context, then please present your justification as to why my paraphrase is wrong.

Also, Jeremaih 50:4-5 also tells us the time period when Jeremaih 50-51 is applicable.

Jeremaih 50:4-5: -
4 "In those days and in that time," says the Lord,
"The children of Israel shall come,
They and the children of Judah together;
With continual weeping they shall come,
And seek the Lord their God.
5 They shall ask the way to Zion, (See note 1)
With their faces toward it, saying,
'Come and let us join ourselves to the Lord
In a perpetual covenant
That will not be forgotten.' (See note 2)

Notes
1. After almost two millennia of the Jewish diaspora residing in various countries without a national state, the Zionist movement was founded in the late 19th century by secular Jews, largely as a response by Ashkenazi Jews to rising antisemitism in Europe, exemplified by the Dreyfus affair in France and the anti-Jewish pogroms (massacres) in the Russian Empire. The political movement was formally established by the Austro-Hungarian journalist Theodor Herzl in 1897 following the publication of his book Der Judenstaat (The Jewish State). At that time, the movement sought to encourage Jewish migration to Ottoman Palestine particularly among those Jewish communities who were poor, unassimilated and whose 'floating' presence caused disquiet, in Herzl's view, among assimilated Jews and stirred anti-Semitism among Christians.

2. It is my understanding that this time period started in 1897 and will continue until around 2044 which should be the end of this present age when God will judge the kings of the earth for their part in trampling God's sanctuary and His earthly hosts.

If you read these two chapters, you will come to understand the End Times prophecies more easily.

The problems we have with the translations is that the early translators could not perceive that the land of Babylon after being devastated and desolated for a period of two ages, would once again be populated with people and flourish.

Douggg I have been considering the translation for over 20 years now and have formed a very different understanding of the original Hebrew text and context of the original Hebrew texts. Now if you want to disagree with me present your reasoned case to disprove what I am posting. Your blanket claim, "Jeremiah 50-51, that you referenced, is about the prophesied destruction of ancient Babylon. So those two chapters do not apply to the end times" contains no evidence to justify such a bold claim.

Goodbye