The Son of Man returns with and for his people

[Spiritual Israelite]

Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom? This was their question to Jesus before He returned to heaven. I think this makes it pretty clear what they thought.

"It's not that kind of Kingdom", He answered . . . no, no, that's not what He said. "Its not for you to know when". Hmm.

What kind of response is this? What does this have to do with what I said in that post? You continue to avoid actually addressing my points and respond with things like this instead. Can you try to actually address what I said?

 

[marks]

What kind of response is this? What does this have to do with what I said in that post? You continue to avoid actually addressing my points and respond with things like this instead. Can you try to actually address what I said?

You said the OT people knew it wasn't an earthly kingdom, and didn't I realize that?

The disciples' question demonstrates that they were in fact still expecting an earthly kingdom, the heavenly city notwithstanding. Jesus affirmed their thinking, rather than correcting it.

I think we're just spinning wheels here.

Much love!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You said the OT people knew it wasn't an earthly kingdom, and didn't I realize that?

The disciples' question demonstrates that they were in fact still expecting an earthly kingdom, the heavenly city notwithstanding. Jesus affirmed their thinking, rather than correcting it.

I think we're just spinning wheels here.

Did you actually read Hebrews 11:8-16? It says they are looking for a heavenly country and city now. Should we just ignore that? Also, should we just ignore Acts 1:8 where Jesus describes the nature of the kingdom, which is spiritual and exists now? It doesn't come with observation (Luke 17:20) and is not of this world (John 18:36). It came in power on the day of Pentecost long ago, which is what Jesus was alluding to in Acts 1:8. The disciples did not yet understand that at the time.

 

[Jay Ross]

The Gatherings are future events.

Yes you are right. God's gathering of the Israelites to Himself is a near future event. God's gathering of the Israelites to Himself will occur when the fulness of the 2,300-year time period of the Gentiles trampling God's Sanctuary and His earthly hosts is complete, which from my study of God's timeline, will occur within the next 20-25 years from now. Paul refers to this time when Israel will be gathered back to God in Romans 11:25-26.

As recorded in Luke, Jesus does provide a number of signs as to when Israel will repent and turn once more back to God. At this time, they will repent of the continual idolatrous worship practices of the Israelites over the past four ages of their existence. They will declare that they no longer want Satan to be their master over them. That they will seek Jesus'/God's terms of peace when they see the Gentile nations being judged near Jerusalem at Armageddon.

God, after He restores Israel to Himself, will make like new again the Kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and His possession among the Nations covenant with Israel, to fulfil His purposes while they remain scattered among the Nations of Israel becoming a Blessing for all of the Nations as they show the way to Mount Zion to Worship God.

This time period does occur during the last Age of the present existence of mankind. Jesus will be our "High Priest" having been given dominion over all of the peoples of the earth such that they should serve and worship Him at the very beginning of the last age which scholars have dubbed the "Millenium Age."

Now at the end of this last age, Jesus returns with the resurrected Saints and we, who are alive and are His saints when this occurs, will rise up to Meet Christ in the air in refurbished bodies.

Oh well, this may be what you are referring to as the future gathering event.

Shalom

 

[covenantee]

The Chosen Race is the "people" of God. The NT refers to those in the Body of Christ as "sons of God" and "children of God.

Of course.

Yes, the Church is the People of God, the Sons of God, and the Children of God.

And if you check, you'll find that sons and children are people.

 

[covenantee]

Peter is the Apostle to the circumcised as Paul said. Peter's letter is written to the diaspora. The entire letter is talking about the Hebrews.

The diaspora was "elect sojourners" in the Greek, identified as Christians, as shown previously.

With your superior competence in Greek, you should easily be able to confirm that.

God is not a racist.

 

[covenantee]

While they were required to be faithful and obedient, it doesn't follow, therefore, they weren't chosen.

Because of unfaithfulness and disobedience, they were chosen to be dead.

 

[covenantee]

Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom? This was their question to Jesus before He returned to heaven. I think this makes it pretty clear what they thought.

"It's not that kind of Kingdom", He answered . . . no, no, that's not what He said. "Its not for you to know when". Hmm.

Much love!

That is the last reference to an Israelitish kingdom in the entirety of Scripture.

The disciples never again brought up the subject.

Unlike dispensational futurists, they saw the light.

 

[DavidTaylor]

There is only one people of God. They are those faithful and obedient to Him and His Son.

No others.

“Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God.” 2 John 9

“No one who denies the Son has the Father.” 1 John 2:23

“If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.” John 15:6

“Whoever hates me hates my Father also.” John 15:23

 

[covenantee]

But he DID promise the Hebrews to give them lots of kids, lots of crops and peace from enemies.

Quote for us the NT Scripture that promises the Hebrews lots of kids, lots of crops and peace from enemies.

 

[covenantee]

Yes, I know these things, and it doesn't change what I wrote. The prophets addressed this also. Do you want to know the passages? Where 2/3 will perish, while the 1/3 remnent will be saved, for instance?

Hebrews 8:13
In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Which covenant do you choose?

Old or New?

Have you decided yet?

 

[GRACE ambassador]

“Christ is all!” Colossians 3:11

Amen! And, Precious friend, A Very Warm Welcome to the Board.

Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided! (+ I and II!) * ← PG rated "Approved" *

Grace, Peace, And JOY!…

* PG = Perfect God / Parental Guidance:

 

[CadyandZoe]

Yes, the Church is the People of God, the Sons of God, and the Children of God.

And if you check, you'll find that sons and children are people.

I could find no reference in the NT where the church is called "the people of God."

 

[CadyandZoe]

The diaspora was "elect sojourners" in the Greek, identified as Christians, as shown previously.

With your superior competence in Greek, you should easily be able to confirm that.

God is not a racist.

No. The term Diaspora refers to every Hebrew in exile, regardless of whether or not they are Christians. Peter is writing to a group of Christian Hebrews living as aliens in foreign countries.

Right?

Thus, what do we know about them?

They are:
A. Hebrews.
B. Christians.

A /= B and B /= A

In other words, not everything true about A is also true about B. Not every Christian is a Hebrew and not every Hebrew is a Christian.

So, for instance, Peter tells the Hebrews living in the diaspora, "You were once not a people" This is true of the Hebrews living in the diaspora, but not true of Christians in general. Both Peter and his intended audience know about the Schism of Shechem and God's word through Hosea that the Ten Tribes are "not my people." This was never said of anyone else.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Quote for us the NT Scripture that promises the Hebrews lots of kids, lots of crops and peace from enemies.

You need to spend more time in the OT.

 

[CadyandZoe]

This has already been addressed. That relates to the new covenant and NT scripture makes it very clear that the new covenant was ushered in long ago and that Gentile believers are included in it.

Okay, but read the passage again. Jeremiah is talking about TWO covenants in chapter 31. The NT authors agree that all believers, whether Jews or Gentiles participate in the New Covenant.

But here is what I have missed for years until someone pointed it out to me.

Jeremiah 31:31-34
“Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

The text in red indicates the New Covenant; the text in blue establishes another covenant altogether.

Verse 31: days are coming --> New Covenant. Reconciliation through the cross of Christ for all believers whether Jew or Gentile.
Verse 33: after those days --> A covenant with the House of Israel whereby he will write his law on their hearts.

 

[covenantee]

No. The term Diaspora refers to every Hebrew in exile, regardless of whether or not they are Christians. Peter is writing to a group of Christian Hebrews living as aliens in foreign countries.

Right?

Thus, what do we know about them?

They are:
A. Hebrews.
B. Christians.

A /= B and B /= A

In other words, not everything true about A is also true about B. Not every Christian is a Hebrew and not every Hebrew is a Christian.

So, for instance, Peter tells the Hebrews living in the diaspora, "You were once not a people" This is true of the Hebrews living in the diaspora, but not true of Christians in general. Both Peter and his intended audience know about the Schism of Shechem and God's word through Hosea that the Ten Tribes are "not my people." This was never said of anyone else.

They were Christian Israelites, and Israelites were comprised of both Hebrews and Gentiles. You continually strive to forget that. I'll continue to remind you.

 

[covenantee]

I could find no reference in the NT where the church is called "the people of God."

1 Peter 2
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

Hebrews 4:9
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

 

[covenantee]

You need to spend more time in the OT.

You need to recognize that the NT has revoked, fulfilled, eclipsed, and transcended the OT, your denials notwithstanding.

That is how Wills and Testaments work.

In God's New Will and Testament, all covenants and promises are fulfilled only in Christ, and in those who are in Christ.

The OT covenants and promises are the promissory clauses of God's Old Will and Testament, and they are both revoked and fulfilled in the promissory clauses of His New Will and Testament, written in the Blood of His Son Jesus Christ, the Divine Testator, coming into full force and effect upon His death.

If you have made your own Will and Testament, you will see that the very first clause states the following or its equivalent:

"I HEREBY REVOKE all former Wills and other testamentary dispositions by me at any time therefore made and declare this to be my Last Will and Testament."

This means that all former wills and testaments, and all of their promissory clauses in their entirety, are completely null and void. In their place, the promissory clauses of the current last new will and testament are the only ones in force and effect. Any promissory clause which appeared in the old will and testament, but does not appear in the new will and testament, is irrevocably null and void unless yet another new will and testament is made which re-includes it.

Thus we see:

Hebrews 9
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Hebrews 10
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

Hebrews 8
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

God`s New Will and Testament is everlasting:

Hebrews 13
20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant.

There is none greater.

We see other new promissory clauses of the New Will and Testament in:

Matthew 21:33-45
In this parable, the son, who is identified as the heir, typifies Christ.

Galatians 3:16
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

2 Corinthians 1:20
For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Hebrews 1:1,2
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

In them, we see that the Heir and Beneficiary is Christ alone, that all of the promises are affirmed and confirmed in Him, and that He is Heir of all things. All includes the OT land promises, the restoration promises, the blessings promises, and all else. There are no exceptions.

If you deny that God has appointed His Son alone as heir of all things, you declare God to be a liar.

His New Will and Testament contains even better promises:

Hebrews 8
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Such as:

Hebrews 11
16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Additional promissory clauses in...:

Romans 8:16-17
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Galatians 3:29
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

...declare that we who are in Christ are joint heirs with Him.

But notice:

There are no promissory clauses for anyone, Jew or Gentile...

Who is not in Christ.

 

[covenantee]

Okay, but read the passage again. Jeremiah is talking about TWO covenants in chapter 31. The NT authors agree that all believers, whether Jews or Gentiles participate in the New Covenant.

But here is what I have missed for years until someone pointed it out to me.

Jeremiah 31:31-34
“Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

The text in red indicates the New Covenant; the text in blue establishes another covenant altogether.

Verse 31: days are coming --> New Covenant. Reconciliation through the cross of Christ for all believers whether Jew or Gentile.
Verse 33: after those days --> A covenant with the House of Israel whereby he will write his law on their hearts.

Same Covenant. Verses 33-34 describe the operation and effects of the New Covenant of verse 31. Repetition of the word "covenant" does not signify a different covenant, but is simply a re-emphasis referring to the original covenant i.e. the New Covenant.

Whoever pointed differently pointed wrong.