The Righteous

[Uisdean]

Of course. When Jesus says not to judge this is precisely what He means. We can't put people into tidy religious boxes and think we understand God.

Okay, so, if a Pagan can perform a Righteous Act, can a Pagan do the works of the Kingdom of Heaven?

 

[Episkopos]

Okay, so, if a Pagan can perform a Righteous Act, can a Pagan do the works of the Kingdom of Heaven?

Of course not. They are on 2 different levels. One is through the power of the flesh. The other is through the power of God.

 

[Uisdean]

Of course not. They are on 2 different levels. One is through the power of the flesh. The other is through the power of God.

So, you would agree that there is a difference between "Obedience" and "Righteousness"?

 

[Uisdean]

@Episkopos
I'm not trying to annoy you. I truly do not understand why you were so upset with @Enoch111 about this. So I am asking some simple questions, just for my own personal understanding.

Rejoice Always!

 

[Nancy]

But go and learn what this means: 'I desire compassion , and not sacrifice ,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
Matthew 9:13 NASB

Is there a spevific verse that talks about calling the righteous into holiness? I think there is, but can't find it.

1Peter1: 15 "but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior; 16 because it is written, “You shall be holy, for I am holy.”

 

[faithfulness]

1Peter1: 15 "but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior; 16 because it is written, “You shall be holy, for I am holy.”

Holy Be. In Me.

 

[Episkopos]

So, you would agree that there is a difference between "Obedience" and "Righteousness"?

yes. There are always distinctions to be made for things that are moving targets. The truth is alive....and moves. That is why the Christian experience is called "a walk".

 

[Episkopos]

@Episkopos
I'm not trying to annoy you. I truly do not understand why you were so upset with @Enoch111 about this. So I am asking some simple questions, just for my own personal understanding.

Rejoice Always!

I think he is more upset at me. :) But I think he needs to hear the voice that cries out for humility before an awesome God. No one knows the outcome on that day. There will be huge surprises. I pray that they will be joyous ones.

 

[Episkopos]

Mic. 6:8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

 

[brakelite]

I have recently retired, and now have the time to learn how to play golf. I have discovered some funds about myself I never knew, and discovered that there are always parallels and analogues between the spiritual and the physical. I have owned in gulf that one must never focus on the end score, nor even on getting the ball to where you want it to go. You focus only on that which you can personally and directly have an effect. Your grip... Swing... Stance... Club choice. The rest, where the ball goes and your final score, is the fruit of doing those things right.
As we get our relationship right with God, as we cleave to Him in prayer and in study of His word, eating the bread of life, the fruits of that relationship will fall into place. Fruits of righteousness. But if we focus on growing fruit: if we focus on gaining eternal life... We will fall because we will be neglecting the very thing that gets us there...John17:3; John15:5; 2Corinthians3
KJV Philippians 1
6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;
10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ;
11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

 

[Nancy]

Abraham did not declare himself righteous because he believed God. He just believed God and left it to God to think as He wills. Abraham let God be the judge. If we judge ourselves as righteous because of our beliefs...we are doubly sinful. We will be judged harshly.

We are just to do what is right without calculation. Let not your left hand know what your right hand is doing....in righteousness.
.

Yes, "without calculation". Not for selfish reasons expecting nothing in return, nor for the glory of men. Humility for reals! "Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up." James 4:10 "Be humbled therefore under the mighty hand of God, so that He may exalt you in due time," 1 Peter 5:6. I for one would rather be lifted up by God than be humbled by Him...lol. Humility is big in my book. And as it seems, in God's book too :)

 

[faithfulness]

Yes, "without calculation". Not for selfish reasons expecting nothing in return, nor for the glory of men. Humility for reals! "Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up." James 4:10 "Be humbled therefore under the mighty hand of God, so that He may exalt you in due time," 1 Peter 5:6. I for one would rather be lifted up by God than be humbled by Him...lol. Humility is big in my book. And as it seems, in God's book too :)

amen...humble ourselves under His mighty hand...cast our cares on Him...let go of everything

 

[Jun2u]

That is wrong. The righteous are righteous in God's eyes...otherwise they would be just hypocrites.

When the bible says "righteous" ...that's what it means. Don't add a false interpretation.

Romans 3:10
As it is written, There is NONE righteous, NO, NOT ONE.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Episkopos]

Romans 3:10
As it is written, There is NONE righteous, NO, NOT ONE.

To God Be The Glory

Some people...

 

[Uisdean]

yes. There are always distinctions to be made for things that are moving targets. The truth is alive....and moves. That is why the Christian experience is called "a walk".

I do not understand this.
Jesus said, "I am the Truth" so, yes, Truth is alive. But Jesus (God) is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. He does not change. What you are saying sounds like you think that "Truth" changes. You can't mean that...so...maybe you mean Obedience.
But...Obedience is that you did as asked. It does not move.
Then...Righteousness must be the thing that moves. But Righteousness originates with God. He is the sorce of Righteousness. That does not change.

Sorry, but I fail to understand you.

 

[Episkopos]

I do not understand this.
Jesus said, "I am the Truth" so, yes, Truth is alive. But Jesus (God) is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. He does not change. What you are saying sounds like you think that "Truth" changes. You can't mean that...so...maybe you mean Obedience.
But...Obedience is that you did as asked. It does not move.
Then...Righteousness must be the thing that moves. But Righteousness originates with God. He is the sorce of Righteousness. That does not change.

Sorry, but I fail to understand you.

What happens is that God leads us slowly into ALL truth...ALL righteousness...and a FULL obedience. As such we are given a measure of these things. God expects more from us as we go along. So for us they are moving targets. We can't say after doing the initial things....there I'm done!

When you learn to shoot....you begin with the target close up...say 50 meters or so. Then as you get better you move the target back...100 meters.....200....300...up to a kilometer and farther. So then to be a crack shot takes the time to get better at a farther distance.

It works the same way with the things of God.

We are also given a measure of faith. Do we have ALL faith? Can we not increase in faith?

And even if we do we are nothing without love.

....and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Edit: he was not righteous, because he didn't want to give up the many things he had for Christ.

Yes I agree. He was giving testimony about himself that he had always kept the law. His testimony was not valid. AND it is not to understand the law AT ALL if you think it is about outwardly keeping it.That's just a whitewashed tomb.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I won’t debate it. You seem already convinced. But hear this: every man is a sinner and if a man says he does not sin, then he is a liar. Therefore every man is separated from God and in the bondage of sin and death and need to come to the Lord. We are all sick when we come to Him. We all need to be made whole. It is His righteousness that restores relationship between man and God, not our righteousness. EVERY man needs to be called to repentance. To put yourself in the already whole and already righteous is to say you do not need to be called because you are already right...is that what you saying? Are you saying as Jesus walked and those sick and unrighteous flocked to Him; you wouldn’t have to because you are righteous already? Please tell me I have misunderstood what you mean.

Matthew 9:12-13
[12] But when Jesus heard that , he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. [13] But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. His righteousness goes before Him; that is us(His work).

Numbers 16:28
[28] And Moses said, Hereby ye shall know that the Lord hath sent me to do all these works; for I have not done them of mine own mind.

Isaiah 64:4-8
[4] For since the beginning of the world men have not heard, nor perceived by the ear, neither hath the eye seen, O God, beside thee, what he hath prepared for him that waiteth for him. [5] Thou meetest him that rejoiceth and worketh righteousness, those that remember thee in thy ways: behold, thou art wroth; for we have sinned: in those is continuance, and we shall be saved. [6] But we are all as an unclean thing , and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. [7] And there is none that calleth upon thy name, that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee: for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities. [8] But now, O Lord , thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

The man has said there is no one so righteous that he never sins, so what are you arguing about...?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Be careful of mixture.

The righteousness of God is IN holiness. But righteousness itself is not holiness.

They were not to wear a mixture of wool and linen to come before God. :)

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Amazing thread! I guess I only have one thing to add: make no mistake. A righteous man does what is right.