The Rapture - At Any Hour

[rockytopva]

But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. - Matthew 24:43-44

As for the times and the seasons of all of that....

It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. - Acts 1:7

And as far as who goes and who stays...

And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. - Revelation 5:3-4

But this will be a pretty good indication...

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. - 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

 

[Keraz]

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. - 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

This Prophecy is about the glorious Return of Jesus, as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. to reign on earth for the next thousand years.
It will be the gathering of His people, as Jesus said; With a trumpet blast, [paralleled by 1 Thess 4:16a] He will send out His angels to gather His chosen, from the four winds; the furthest bounds of the earth. Matthew 24:31
To where He will be - Jerusalem.

The only dead brought back to life when Jesus Returns, will be the martyrs killed during the 42 month time of Satanic world control. Rev 20:4
No one else is said to receive any kind of body change.

 

[FaithWillDo]

But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. - Matthew 24:43-44

As for the times and the seasons of all of that....

It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. - Acts 1:7

And as far as who goes and who stays...

And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. - Revelation 5:3-4

But this will be a pretty good indication...

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. - 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

Dear rockytopva,
The Second Coming of Christ is a reoccurring spiritual event that happens to each of the Elect when Christ spiritually returns to convert them.

The first of the Elect to experience the Second Coming of Christ were the 120 Jewish Elect to whom the Lord returned on the Day of Pentecost.

Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again (this is the second coming), and receive you unto myself (this is conversion); that where I am, there ye may be also.

These scriptures below apply to all the Elect since the death of Paul when the church became apostate. And yes, all Elect will become apostate prior to the Lord's return to them. That is why the Latter Rain of the Spirit is given to them just prior to Christ's appearing.

The verses below describe certain details of Christ's second coming to His Elect. These details prove that Christ's second coming is not a one-time worldly event that happens at the literal end of the age.

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants (the Elect) things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it (used spiritual symbols) by his angel unto his servant John: 2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. 3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for THE TIME IS AT HAND. 4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne...

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Rev 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

Rev 11:17 saying: “We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty, the One who is and who was and who is to come, because you have taken your great power and reigned.

Rev 22:7 Behold, I come QUICKLY: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, SEAL NOT the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for THE TIME IS AT HAND.

Conversion requires the Latter Rain of the Spirit (same as the baptism of the Spirit), followed by the appearance of Christ when He brings judgment to the Elect person (Day of the Lord/1000 year reign/baptism of Fire).

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit, and with Fire: 12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

If a believer does not "keep" the sayings of the end-time prophecies, they are not one of the blessed (the Elect).

The Elect will each experience the spiritual events described by the end-time teachings of Christ as recorded in the four gospels and the book of Revelation. Those end-time prophecies were fulfilled within the Elect at the time John received the vision and have continued to be fulfilled within all the Elect since that time.

Paul confirms this truth in the verse below:

1Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened to them as types, and have been written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.

The pathway to salvation/conversion is the dominant teaching of all end-time prophecy. For that reason, Christ fulfills His words by coming "quickly" to each of his servants before they die. If Christ does not come to a believer prior to their death, they were not one of the Elect.

Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. - Matthew 24:43-44

As for the times and the seasons of all of that....

It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. - Acts 1:7

And as far as who goes and who stays...

And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. - Revelation 5:3-4

But this will be a pretty good indication...

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. - 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

Dear rocktopva,
A couple of other comments:

1), The scripture you quoted (1Thes 4:16-17) is a teaching on the bodily resurrection of the dead and not a so called "rapture".

2). When Christ comes a second time to the Elect, He will gather the newly born child of God to heaven. This is not a "rapture" but is a symbolic way of showing that the person spiritually no longer dwells upon the earth where carnal mankind dwells but now spiritually dwells with Christ in heaven. The person physically does not change locations - they only spiritually change locations.

This is what this scripture is referring to:

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days (of being an apostate believer) shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

After Christ gives an Elect believer the Latter Rain of the Spirit, their spiritual blindness will be healed and the truth of God's Word will open up to their understanding. The sun and moon being "darkened" is a symbolic way of showing that the believer no longer receives their light (truth) from the natural sun (Satan) and the natural moon (carnal nature) of this world. They now receive their light from Christ (spiritual Sun) and their new spiritual nature of the Holy Spirit (spiritual moon). The phrase "all the tribes of the earth mourn" represents the death of the carnal thoughts and beliefs of the believer. Now that the believer can see the truth (Christ), Christ will appear to them and gather the believer (now a child of God) to heaven.

The common teaching of the rapture is false.

If you want to say that the converted believers (alive and remain) who are caught up when the bodily resurrection occurs is the "rapture", then I could agree with that statement. However, scripture calls that event the bodily resurrection and not the rapture. It is better to call it the bodily resurrection from the grave to avoid it being misunderstood as the false teaching of the rapture.

Joe

 

[rockytopva]

Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. - Jesus Christ

At an hour you think not!

28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. - Luke 17

Sounds Pre-Trib to me!

 

[FaithWillDo]

Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. - Jesus Christ

At an hour you think not!

28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. - Luke 17

Sounds Pre-Trib to me!

Dear rockyopva,
The Son of Man comes after an Elect believer has fully become apostate and is dwelling in peace and safety. Christ comes to all the Elect at this time - a time that they do not expect Him to come because they were spiritually blind to this truth.

The scripture below applies to Christ's second coming to the Elect:

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom (referring to Satan's "another gospel") shall be preached in all the world (within the believer) for a witness unto all nations (believer's thoughts and beliefs/they have become fully apostate); and then shall the end come (Christ's second coming to convert the believer/death of the child of the devil). 15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains (because judgment is about to fall):

After an Elect believer's spiritual blindness is healed by the Latter Rain of the Spirit, they will see the Abomination of Desolation that previously occurred within themselves when the spirit of anti-Christ entered them. After they see this truth, Christ will appear and judgment will begin. At that time, Christ will remove the spirit of anti-Christ (v. 40) and the Elect believer's worsened carnal nature (v. 41/Great Harlot) and cast them both into the Lake of Fire for destruction (also shown in Rev 19:20).

Joe

 

[IndianaRob]

But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. - Matthew 24:43-44

As for the times and the seasons of all of that....

It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. - Acts 1:7

And as far as who goes and who stays...

And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. - Revelation 5:3-4

But this will be a pretty good indication...

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. - 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

I think “an hour” is trying to get us to search the scripture for the most famous hour in the Bible.

 

[Davidpt]

Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. - Jesus Christ

At an hour you think not!

28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. - Luke 17

Sounds Pre-Trib to me!

Hmmm, so that's what the OP is all about.

Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.


The first thing to note, there are two groups here.

Group 1) the one shall be taken

Group 2) and the other left

And there are also 2 groups per the following.

Matthew 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.



Group 1a) Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.


Group 2a) But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The question is, which group do Pretribbers see themselves fitting? Group 1a) or Group 2a)? If they answer Group 1a), that alone debunks a Pretrib rapture being in view here, the fact the text indicates that when the Lord returns, those belonging to group 1a), he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

How is He supposed to do that if He instead raptures them to heaven during this coming? How can He possibly make them ruler over all their goods if they are in heaven rather than on the earth?

Pretrib is about as ludicrous as Amil is when it comes to these particular verses in question. I don't know which position is more ludicrous? Pretrib has no explanation for Matthew 24:47 nor does Amil. But Premil does, meaning post trib Premil in this case, not Pre trib Premil. For example, Matthew 24:47 seems to be supported per the following.

Luke 19:15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.


Keeping in mind, this.

1 Corinthians 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.


As if it makes sense Luke 19:15-19 is still applicable once 1 Corinthians 15:28 is fulfilled. Clearly, regardless what it looks like to have authority over cities, this is meaning before 1 Corinthians 15:28 is fulfilled yet is meaning after Christ has bodily returned. Therefore, there has to be period of time after Christ has returned and before 1 Corinthians 15:28 is fulfilled that can explain this authority given over these cities. It doesn't matter what that might or might not look like. What matters is, it makes zero sense for this to still be applicable once 1 Corinthians 15:28 has been fulfilled.

IOW, as per the coming you submitted, the timing is the end of this age and the beginning of the millennium, not the beginning of great tribulation instead. Can some of you not see in Matthew 24, as of verse 29, anything pertaining to great tribulation, that Jesus has closed that subject and moved on to different subjects, thus not still involving great tribulation? Why would He be all over the place like this? As of verse 29, great tribultion is in the past as far as Jesus is concerned. Therefore, He moved on to different subjects. So why would He still be talking about great tribulation when He gets to the verses you supplied and that I addressed above when verse 29 is already proving He is no longer focusing on great tribulation at this point?

And once again, which kills 2 birds with one stone, so to speak. The timing pertaining to the verses you submitted is the end of this age and the beginning of the millennium. There goes both Pretrib and Amil out the window since neither of those views can fit that this is meaning at the end of this age and the beginning of the millennium.

 

[marks]

Pretrib has no explanation for Matthew 24:47

This was given to the Jews, not the church. The gentile believers, and the harpadzo, were mysteries not yet revealed until God did so through Paul.

So anyone looking for the rapture of the church in the Gospels won't find it. We can go through the chapters point by point if you like.

In the same way, you won't find the gentile believers in the Olivette discourse, the elect in that passage is Israel.

Confusion results if we do not "rightly divide" the Scriptures. All of Scripture is "for us", but not all is "to us". Otherwise, we should all be building arks.


So we can know to whom the Lord is addressing by study. The catching up of the church is pre-trib, while the gathering of the Chosen - Israel - is post trib. The church is caught up into the air to be with the Lord, the Chosen - Israel - are regathered to their Promised Land.

Much love!

 

[Davidpt]

This was given to the Jews, not the church. The gentile believers, and the harpadzo, were mysteries not yet revealed until God did so through Paul.

So anyone looking for the rapture of the church in the Gospels won't find it. We can go through the chapters point by point if you like.

In the same way, you won't find the gentile believers in the Olivette discourse, the elect in that passage is Israel.

Confusion results if we do not "rightly divide" the Scriptures. All of Scripture is "for us", but not all is "to us". Otherwise, we should all be building arks.


So we can know to whom the Lord is addressing by study. The catching up of the church is pre-trib, while the gathering of the Chosen - Israel - is post trib. The church is caught up into the air to be with the Lord, the Chosen - Israel - are regathered to their Promised Land.

Much love!

What you are not factoring in, the church doesn't just consist of Gentile believers, it consists of both Gentile and Jewish believers. Therefore, to argue that Gentile believers can't be found in the Discourse makes zero sense. After all, the disciples Jesus was speaking to at the time were Jews yet part of the church. And once again, the church doesn't just consist of one group only, such as Jews, or such as Gentiles, it consists of both.

If you or anyone were to argue, for example, at the time of Jesus having said those things in the Discourse, Gentiles were not part of the church yet, how would that argument help you one way or the other? If the end of the age is in view, one certainly couldn't still use that as an argument, right?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. - Jesus Christ

At an hour you think not!

28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. - Luke 17

Sounds Pre-Trib to me!

How do you figure? How does being post-trib mean you know what hour He is coming? It doesn't.

Also, how does Luke 17:28-30 support pre-trib? How are you defining the tribulation? Luke 17:28-30 relates to Christ's wrath that will come down when He comes and not tribulation for believers. So, you need to define your terms to avoid confusion. Post-tribs do not believe that we will still be here during the wrath that will come down when Jesus comes. It will kill all unbelievers just like all unbelievers in Sodom were killed the day Lot went out of Sodom.

 

[marks]

What you are not factoring in, the church doesn't just consist of Gentile believers, it consists of both Gentile and Jewish believers. Therefore, to argue that Gentile believers can't be found in the Discourse makes zero sense. After all, the disciples Jesus was speaking to at the time were Jews yet part of the church. And once again, the church doesn't just consist of one group only, such as Jews, or such as Gentiles, it consists of both.

If you or anyone were to argue, for example, at the time of Jesus having said those things in the Discourse, Gentiles were not part of the church yet, how would that argument help you one way or the other? If the end of the age is in view, one certainly couldn't still use that as an argument, right?

Do you know the meaning of the Koine Greek "musterion"?

Much love!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Pretrib is about as ludicrous as Amil is when it comes to these particular verses in question. I don't know which position is more ludicrous? Pretrib has no explanation for Matthew 24:47 nor does Amil.

LOL! You are obsessed with us Amils. Even within a post that you're refuting pre-trib you just have to mention us. What a joke! You are hilarious!

But Premil does, meaning post trib Premil in this case, not Pre trib Premil. For example, Matthew 24:47 seems to be supported per the following.

Luke 19:15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.


Keeping in mind, this.

1 Corinthians 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.


As if it makes sense Luke 19:15-19 is still applicable once 1 Corinthians 15:28 is fulfilled. Clearly, regardless what it looks like to have authority over cities, this is meaning before 1 Corinthians 15:28 is fulfilled yet is meaning after Christ has bodily returned. Therefore, there has to be period of time after Christ has returned and before 1 Corinthians 15:28 is fulfilled that can explain this authority given over these cities. It doesn't matter what that might or might not look like. What matters is, it makes zero sense for this to still be applicable once 1 Corinthians 15:28 has been fulfilled.

You make no sense here. There is no way that anyone can comprehend whatever point it is that you're making here. It boggles my mind how you always think you make clear, convincing arguments and, yet, no one knows what you're saying.

IOW, as per the coming you submitted, the timing is the end of this age and the beginning of the millennium, not the beginning of great tribulation instead. Can some of you not see in Matthew 24, as of verse 29, anything pertaining to great tribulation, that Jesus has closed that subject and moved on to different subjects, thus not still involving great tribulation? Why would He be all over the place like this? As of verse 29, great tribultion is in the past as far as Jesus is concerned. Therefore, He moved on to different subjects. So why would He still be talking about great tribulation when He gets to the verses you supplied and that I addressed above when verse 29 is already proving He is no longer focusing on great tribulation at this point?

And once again, which kills 2 birds with one stone, so to speak. The timing pertaining to the verses you submitted is the end of this age and the beginning of the millennium. There goes both Pretrib and Amil out the window since neither of those views can fit that this is meaning at the end of this age and the beginning of the millennium.

LOL! You are very delusional. You have proven nothing here as it relates to Amil. Not even close. You mentioned the end of the age. Tell me how you interpret this passage:

Matthew 13:47 “Once again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was let down into the lake and caught all kinds of fish. 48 When it was full, the fishermen pulled it up on the shore. Then they sat down and collected the good fish in baskets, but threw the bad away. 49 This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous 50 and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

So, Jesus taught that the wicked and righteous will be judged at the same time at the end of the age. What happens to the wicked? They are thrown "into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. What else can that be but the same thing as the lake of fire? When are the wicked cast into the lake of fire? After the thousand years. That places the timing of the end of this age after the thousand years. So much for you disproving Amil! Nice try, but you failed again. And we know that believers at that point will all be changed and have immortal bodies. What mortals does this leave to populate your imaginary earthly millennial kingdom? None.

The following shows what happens to believers at the end of the age:

Matthew 13:40 “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.

At the end of the age, "the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father.". You falsely claim that Christ will set up His earthly kingdom at the end of the age, but this says we will be in the kingdom of the Father at that point. That means that Jesus will have delivered the kingdom He has been reigning over since His resurrection to the Father at that point when He comes at the end of the age. Just as Paul taught here:

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

 

[Keraz]

There goes both Pretrib and Amil out the window since neither of those views can fit that this is meaning at the end of this age and the beginning of the millennium.

Thank you, this is the sad truth.
Why? Because God does not want people to understand His plans for our future. He has blinded His servants; Isaiah 42:18-20
Also, the truths of Prophecy are hidden from the wise and learned people. Matthew 11:25

What is very apparent in these forums, is how some think they have got the correct sequence of the end time events and they strongly promote their beliefs. A rapture to heaven or not. We are in the Millennium now, or not, Does Jesus resurrect all the Christian dead at His Return, or not. Will the universe just blow up to nothingness, or not.
The reality is: all those beliefs, for and against, are just wind rustling the leaves of the trees. We are free to have our own personal beliefs, weird and wonderful as our fancy takes us.

Mine is that quite soon, the Lord will intervene in His Creation, with a major shakeup of the world. Hebrews 12:26
When it happens, we must stand firm in our faith and trust in our Lord and Saviour to protect us. Psalms 23 is the prime example.
THEN the blinded will see and the deaf will understand - Gods Plans will become clear to us. Isaiah 35:4-5, Isaiah 29:18-24

 

[Davidpt]

You make no sense here. There is no way that anyone can comprehend whatever point it is that you're making here. It boggles my mind how you always think you make clear, convincing arguments and, yet, no one knows what you're saying.

Just because you don't know what I'm saying doesn't necessariliry mean others don't as well. The point I was making is simple. When Jesus returns He rewards faithful servants with authority over things. Are we to believe they maintain this authority throughout eternity then, even after 1 Corinthians 15:28 has been fullfilled? What would they need authority over at that point?

Do you dispute that that parable in Luke 19 involves the literal bodily return of Christ in the end of this age? So what if it's a parable? Parables can't involve actual truths, such as the leaving and returning and receiving a kingdom per the parable, that these are actual truths? That we are to take those events in the literal sense. Otherwise, we might as well all be full Preterists since there is no such as a literal bodily return in the future per that view.

BTW, are you making fun out of the way I post by saying no one ever understands what I'm saying? And if you are and everyone else is as well, thus me being the laughing stock around here, I'm through posting on this board then. Pretty much every post I make that you address, you can't help laughing out loud about something I said. You were obviously being a phony when I knew you over at BibleForums. I don't ever recall you acting in that manner towards others even when you disagreed with them. I suspect the reason is because the Mods would not have let you get away with it if you had.

 

[IndianaRob]

Just because you don't know what I'm saying doesn't necessariliry mean others don't as well. The point I was making is simple. When Jesus returns He rewards faithful servants with authority over things. Are we to believe they maintain this authority throughout eternity then, even after 1 Corinthians 15:28 has been fullfilled? What would they need authority over at that point?

Do you dispute that that parable in Luke 19 involves the literal bodily return of Christ in the end of this age? So what if it's a parable? Parables can't involve actual truths, such as the leaving and returning and receiving a kingdom per the parable, that these are actual truths? That we are to take those events in the literal sense. Otherwise, we might as well all be full Preterists since there is no such as a literal bodily return in the future per that view.

BTW, are you making fun out of the way I post by saying no one ever understands what I'm saying? And if you are and everyone else is as well, thus me being the laughing stock around here, I'm through posting on this board then. Pretty much every post I make that you address, you can't help laughing out loud about something I said. You were obviously being a phony when I knew you over at BibleForums. I don't ever recall you acting in that manner towards others even when you disagreed with them. I suspect the reason is because the Mods would not have let you get away with it if you had.

He uses LOL waaaay too much. Just ignore him. I understand your posts just fine, I just don’t agree with them.

 

[Davidpt]

I understand your posts just fine, I just don’t agree with them.

I can live with that. Just because someone might disagree with someone hardly undeniably proves that that person is incorrect, though. Maybe they are, maybe they are not. It might be like arguing with a JW about whether or not Jesus is God. Then the JW saying he or she understood the other person just fine, except they disagree with the other person. Just because the JW disagrees doesn't undeniably mean the other person was incorrect that Jesus is indeed God.

 

[rockytopva]

The KJV... Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. - Jesus Christ

Every day - Better to be ready than to be wrong. - Jesus Christ

In which those trying to judge the times are likely to be.

 

[IndianaRob]

The KJV... Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. - Jesus Christ

Every day - Better to be ready than to be wrong. - Jesus Christ

In which those trying to judge the times are likely to be.

Here’s a good hit that lines up perfectly with the most famous hour in the Bible.

Mat 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

 

[Davidpt]

He uses LOL waaaay too much.

And the sad part is, some of that has rubbed off on me as well since I have been known to use LOL a time or two in some of my posts. But mostly directed to those that have been dishing it out, because, in my mind, if you can dish it out you should be able to take it as well. IOW, I'm for the underdog, I'm somewhat opposed to bullies that think they are better than everyone else, smarter than everyone else, etc.

I might not be book smart but I am street smart. Had to literally live on the streets homeless a time or two in my life. There were a few times if it weren't for my street smarts, I wouldn't even be here right now. All the book smarts in the world would not have delivered me out of some of those situations I found myself in at times.