The Prophetic Timeline: Why Jesuit Futurists/Jesuit Preterists Ignore It

[Douggg]

The two verses, Rev. 17:10-11 are two different thoughts,. 17:10 is about the 7 kingdoms of the 3 beast kingDOMS, shown in Daniel:
1- Babylon
1- Medio-Persia
1- Grecian- Alex the Great
4- Grecian- four generals.
Totalling to 7 kingdoms.

The sixth king was ruling at the time of John. So the formula you came up with does not work, as none of the four generals were alive at the time of John. The four generals lived 300 years before John. And after Alexander died, they battled against each other to see who would inherit Alexander's kingdom - who said to them before dying that the strongest of them would inherit his kingdom.

The sixth king is the sixth of a family of kings (the Caesars) of the fourth kingdom of Daniel 7 - the Roman Empire.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

Whether or not the beast king will refer to himself as Caesar remains to be seen. Maybe, maybe not.

The European Economic Community (forerunner of the EU) was formed in 1957 by the treaty of Rome, interestingly.

 

[Earburner]

Greece is part of the EU.

Ok, but where are you going with that?
Are you applying it to the 10Hs. If so, or if not, we can't assume anything of who they are, because near the end of those 42 mos., they will be appointed by the Global Economic Empire to do it's bidding, for as you know, the "Banking Elite" have no standing army or weapons of it's own to protect itself.

 

[Earburner]

The sixth king was ruling at the time of John. So the formula you came up with does not work, as none of the four generals were alive at the time of John. The four generals lived 300 years before John. And after Alexander died, they battled against each other to see who would inherit Alexander's kingdom - who said to them before dying that the strongest of them would inherit his kingdom.

The sixth king is the sixth of a family of kings (the Caesars) of the fourth kingdom of Daniel 7 - the Roman Empire.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

Whether or not the beast king will refer to himself as Caesar remains to be seen. Maybe, maybe not.

The European Economic Community (forerunner of the EU) was formed in 1957 by the treaty of Rome, interestingly.

It's not about any "beast king", but rather the "beast kingdom", the 4th beast of Daniel, aka the ever evolving 1st beast in Rev.

However, equally important to understand, is who the "another (2nd) beast" is in Rev.
The denominational, religious crowd of "church-ianty", are way off base with that.

 

[Douggg]

Ok, but where are you going with that?
Are you applying it to the 10Hs. If so, or if not, we can't assume anything of who they are, because near the end of 42 mos., they will be appointed by the Global Economic Empire to do it's bidding, for as you know, the "Banking Elite" have no standing army or weapons of it's own.

For eschatology - study of the end times - we are dealing with 3 parameters.

1. time elements
2. events
3. persons

For time element framework - Ezekiel 39.

1. Gog/Magog event
2. then 7 years
3. then Armageddon
4. concluded by Jesus's return.

Main human character.... (what I am watching for right now).

1. the little horn emerges as leader of ten kings (the ten horns) of the fourth kingdom, pre-Gog/Magog.

2. then he becomes the prince that shall come, following Gog/Magog. He comes from north and west of Israel, Daniel 8:9.

3. then is anointed the King of Israel, (false) messiah by the false prophet of Revelation 13 perceived to be Elijah the prophet.
.......a. as the Antichrist, false messiah, he confirms the Mt. Sinai covenant for 7 years (Deuteronomy 31:9-13).
.......b. the world then begins to say "peace and safety" of the false messianic age (1Thesslaonians5:3)
.......c. three years later, thereabouts, the Antichrist commits the transgression of desolation (Daniel 8:13, 2Thessalonians2:4)
......d. revealing himself as the man of sin, and that he was a false messiah to Israel.

4. then he is killed for sitting in the temple, and his audacious claim of having achieved God-hood. (Ezekiel 28:1-10).

5. then he is brought back to life (Isaiah 14:18-20). The mortally wounded head (king) on the beast (kingdom) in Revelation 13:3

6. then the ten kings (horns) give their kingdom to the him - as he becomes the beast-king. (Revelation 17:17)

7. then the false prophet, false Elijah, has a statue image made of the beast-king and placed on the temple mount. 1335 days before Jesus returns. The statue image is the abomination of desolation. (Daniel 12:11-12)

8. the great tribulation begins.

9. then a war in the second heaven, and Satan is cast down to earth. (Revelation 12:7-9) Having great wrath. His time will be short - a time, times, half time (Revelation 12:14). During which, Satan will indwell the statue image of the beast, making it appear to come alive and speak. And be worshiped.

10. then 1290 days from when the abomination of desolation statue image is placed on the temple mount (that 1290 days is called the tribulation of those days in Matthew 24:29), the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven (Matthew 24:30a). Which will be Jesus, sickle in hand.

11. then, in reaction, the kings of the earth will gather their armies for 45 days at Armageddon to prepare to make war on Jesus.

12. then, at the end of the 45 days (1335 days from when the statue image is first setup), Jesus descends down to earth.

13. then, the beast king and the false prophet are cast into the lake of fire. And the statue image turned ashes, exposing Satan to the kings of the earth and all present that day.

14. then, Jesus destroys the kings of the earth and their armies that gathered to make war on Him.

15. then, Satan is bound in chains and cast into the bottomless pit prison. Concluding the end of the great tribulation.

16. then, Jesus sends his angels to gather the elect, the Jews left in the nations to the land of their forefathers - Israel. Matthew 24:31, Deuteronomy 30:4-6, Ezekiel 39:28.

17. then, the martyred great tribulation saints are resurrected to reign and rule with Jesus for a thousand years. Revelation 20:4-6

 

[Earburner]

For eschatology - study of the end times - we are dealing with 3 parameters.

1. time elements
2. events
3. persons

For time element framework - Ezekiel 39.

1. Gog/Magog event
2. then 7 years
3. then Armageddon
4. concluded by Jesus's return.

Main human character.... (what I am watching for right now).

1. the little horn emerges as leader of ten kings (the ten horns) of the fourth kingdom, pre-Gog/Magog.

2. then he becomes the prince that shall come, following Gog/Magog. He comes from north and west of Israel, Daniel 8:9.

3. then is anointed the King of Israel, (false) messiah by the false prophet of Revelation 13 perceived to be Elijah the prophet.
.......a. as the Antichrist, false messiah, he confirms the Mt. Sinai covenant for 7 years (Deuteronomy 31:9-13).
.......b. the world then begins to say "peace and safety" of the false messianic age (1Thesslaonians5:3)
.......c. three years later, thereabouts, the Antichrist commits the transgression of desolation (Daniel 8:13, 2Thessalonians2:4)
......d. revealing himself as the man of sin, and that he was a false messiah to Israel.

4. then he is killed for sitting in the temple, and his audacious claim of having achieved God-hood. (Ezekiel 28:1-10).

5. then he is brought back to life (Isaiah 14:18-20). The mortally wounded head (king) on the beast (kingdom) in Revelation 13:3

6. then the ten kings (horns) give their kingdom to the him - as he becomes the beast-king. (Revelation 17:17)

7. then the false prophet, false Elijah, has a statue image made of the beast-king and placed on the temple mount. 1335 days before Jesus returns. The statue image is the abomination of desolation. (Daniel 12:11-12)

8. the great tribulation begins.

9. then a war in the second heaven, and Satan is cast down to earth. (Revelation 12:7-9) Having great wrath. His time will be short - a time, times, half time (Revelation 12:14). During which, Satan will indwell the statue image of the beast, making it appear to come alive and speak. And be worshiped.

10. then 1290 days from when the abomination of desolation statue image is placed on the temple mount (that 1290 days is called the tribulation of those days in Matthew 24:29), the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven (Matthew 24:30a). Which will be Jesus, sickle in hand.

11. then, in reaction, the kings of the earth will gather their armies for 45 days at Armageddon to prepare to make war on Jesus.

12. then, at the end of the 45 days (1335 days from when the statue image is first setup), Jesus descends down to earth.

13. then, the beast king and the false prophet are cast into the lake of fire. And the statue image turned ashes, exposing Satan to the kings of the earth and all present that day.

14. then, Jesus destroys the kings of the earth and their armies that gathered to make war on Him.

15. then, Satan is bound in chains and cast into the bottomless pit prison. Concluding the end of the great tribulation.

16. then, Jesus sends his angels to gather the elect, the Jews left in the nations to the land of their forefathers - Israel. Matthew 24:31, Deuteronomy 30:4-6, Ezekiel 39:28.

17. then, the martyred great tribulation saints are resurrected to reign and rule with Jesus for a thousand years. Revelation 20:4-6

Sorry, but I no longer follow after the imaginings and fabrications of "church-ianity, and all their different denominationl views, by way of "the wisdom of men". 1 Cor. 2:5.
MOST ALL the denominational views are a quagmire of frustration and confusion in foolish thinking.

Very few understand the scriptural and factual FULFILLED truth about the 70 Week Prophecy.
It is literally from that point, that most all Christians lose touch with all biblical understanding, of what Jesus said in the Garden of Gethsemane and during His last moments on the cross. They are so much off on their different tangents with false doctrines, that it is next to impossible for them to understand that the 70th week WAS fulfilled by Jesus.
Therefore, they must TRASH all of their learning "as dung", in all that they have been taught from ALL the mouthpieces sent out BY ALL the Bible Colleges of "higher learning(??)" 1 Cor. 2:5.

The key word to know, is the word: "Finish".
By His "POWER" of His Holy Spirit within you (1 Cor. 2:5), Let's see if you, and everyone else here can grasp WHAT the six works of truth were, that was "finished", in Dan. 9:24; John 17:4; John 19:30.

 

[Douggg]

the 70th week WAS fulfilled by Jesus.

Ezekiel 39 proves your point of view incorrect.

1. Gog/Magog event
2. then 7 years
3. then Armageddon
4. concluded by Jesus's return.

There is no mass grave site of Gog's army in Israel, yet. Meaning it has not happened.

Ezekiel 39:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog.

_________________________________________________________________

In addition, the 7 year 70th week is in the time elements of Revelation.

 

[Earburner]

Ezekiel 39 proves your point of view incorrect.

1. Gog/Magog event
2. then 7 years
3. then Armageddon
4. concluded by Jesus's return.

There is no mass grave site of Gog's army in Israel, yet. Meaning it has not happened.

Ezekiel 39:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog.

_________________________________________________________________

In addition, the 7 year 70th week is in the time elements of Revelation.



View attachment 48482

You and most of church-ianity have no idea of what you are looking at by "the wisdom of men". 1 Cor. 2:5.
You have "swallowed a camel", thinking that all of Revelation must be chronological, never realizng that God thinks in the past, present and future, all at the SAME time, and speaks accordingly.

Try to understand that the the KoG IS NOT OF THIS world, and does not look like anything of it, at all.

Rev. 20:4-9 is about this presnt Age of God's Grace (AS/being like A thousand years, having no set date for it's end- 2 Peter 3:8-9), whereby ALL of God's Born Again saints, during their lifetime, reign with Christ now, in His present judgment of Eternal life, for those who believe in Christ, or Eternal death for those who DON'T believe in Christ.
John 3
[18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned/judged  ALREADY, BECAUSE he hath NOT believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Rev. 20:4-9, with my insertion of [comments]:
[4] And [symbolicly] I saw thrones, and they [mortal born again Christians] sat upon them, and judgment [John 3:18] was given unto them [to preach the gospel of Christ unto all the world]: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus [early church age], and for the word of God [middle church age], and which had not worshipped the beast [end time church age], neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and [during their lifetimes] they lived and reigned with Christ a [figurative] thousand years [during the Age of God's Grace].

[5] But the rest [remainder] of the dead [SAINTS, WHO WERE NOT beheaded/martyred] lived not again until the [figurative] thousand years [Age of God's Grace] were finished. This is the first resurrection.
[6] Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection [born again through Christ, who is the FIRSTborn, the FIRST rsurrected from the dead, of God's NEW Creation]: on such [who are Born Again] the second death hath no power [1 John 5:12-13], but they shall be priests [ambassadors] of God and of Christ, and shall reign [during their lifetimes] with him a [figurative] thousand years [this present Age of God's Grace].

[7] And when the [figurative] thousand years [of God's Grace] are expired [ended], Satan shall be loosed out of his prison [figurative "chains of darkness" -2 Peter 2:4],

[8] And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, [typified as] Gog and Magog, to gather [to bundle- Mat. 13:30] them together to [the] battle [of Armageddon]: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

[9] And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and encompassed [surrounded each mortal member of] the CAMP of the saints about [each having not the "MoB"], the beloved city [being God's born again, mortally living people, REMAINING on earth at that time]: and FIRE CAME DOWN from God out of heaven, and devoured them. [Jesus' Glorious return- KJV Luke 17:28-30; 1 Thes. 2:7-10].

Remember? "This little light if mine. I'm going to let it shine....".
THAT is what we are here for, to preach the Gospel of Christ to all the world. For 2024 years, MANY HAVE REIGNED WITH Christ, during this figurative 1000 years, the Age of God's Grace, of which has no set date for it's end. But NOW, the signs are all around us.
The Gospel has been preached to all the world, FOR a witness to all the nations.
We are at THAT END NOW.

 

[Timtofly]

The ten kings will reign with the beast that existed BEFORE John received the Revelation (BEFORE the Roman Empire existed), when it ascends from the abyss. They will war with the Lamb - but He will overcome them because He is Lord of Lords and King of Kings and those who will be with Him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

This is also incorrect. Greece is not the beast either. The beast of the 8th kingdom is the head of the dragon, Satan himself. He was, literally always was, is not part of humanity, but will take over along with 10 future kings with no nation or kingdom, and rule earth for 42 months. Then fight the Lamb at the battle of Armageddon.

Satan will be bound for a thousand years. The 10 kings killed, ending up in death.

The dragon, sea beast, and scarlet colored beast are all one in the same historical succession of empires starting with Babylon, and ending with the Holy Roman Empire at the Reformation (5 have fallen). The current 6th Head is mortally wounded. No empire controls the ME, much less the world. Satan is the the 7th head, and always has been throughout history.

There have not been 3 separate 7 headed historical successions of empires totalling 21 world rulers. The dragon is from Satan's perspective. The sea beast is from humanity's perspective. The scarlet colored beast is from Jerusalem and Israel's perspective. Israel and Jerusalem have played the harlot with these kingdoms throughout history, but more so when Satan rules from Jerusalem for 42 months.

 

[Earburner]

Don't worry, I think I got it.

This is what you are saying:

The beast that ascended from the abyss that existed before John received the Revelation but no longer existed when John received the Revelation, was the Roman Republic that became the Roman Empire, and the 10 kings that reigned with that beast when it ascended from the abyss were Roman kings who handed over their authority and power to the Pope, who was the beast that ascended from the abyss that existed before John received the Revelation, which was the Roman Republic that later became the Roman Empire.

They (those ten Roman kings) made war against the Lamb, but the Lamb overcame them, and the Pope, the Roman Republic, and the Roman Empire who were like a leopard, and had feet like the feet of a bear, and a mouth like the mouth of a lion,

were all thrown into the lake of fire, and the Kingdom and the greatness of the Kingdom was given to the saints of the Most High, whose Kingdom is an everlasting Kingdom.

The resurrection of the dead occurred when Christ defeated the ten Roman Kings who reigned with the Roman beast ascended from the abyss, who made war against Him and handed their authority over to the Pope when he ascended from the abyss,

and according to the OP of this thread and @Phoneman777, the rest of us who followed the wrong eschatology and did not identify the beast that existed before John received the Revelation and the ten kings that reigned with him after he had ascended from the abyss, as ten Roman kings who according to yourself gave their authority to the Pope (who was the beast that had ascended from the abyss - the same beast that had existed before John received the Revelation but ceased to exist before John received the Revelation),

well we all got left behind

- because anyone who disagrees with your and @Phoneman777 's strange eschatology and rewriting of biblical and scriptural history, is a Jesuit

- a Jesuit who either follows an evil eschatology that places the ten "Roman" kings in the future - the ten "Roman" kings who reign with the beast ascended from the abyss (that existed before John received the Revelation but no longer existed when John received the Revelation),

or even worse, place it all in the past - but just not in the same way that your own eschatology places it all in the past.

Got it.

The prophecy of the 10 horns in Daniel was given to him in 525+/- BC. That prophecy reveals that 10Hs are seen by Daniel in his vision, as well as John seeing them again in his vision in 96 AD. The only prophecy that gives account of any future activity by the 10Hs, is Rev. 17:12-18.

[12] And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; BUT receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
[13] These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
[14] These [the Beast with the10 kings] shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
[15] And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore [Israel] sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
[16] And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall HATE the whore [Israel], and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
[17] For God hath put in their hearts [of the 10Hs] to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom [10 kings of Europe] unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
[18] And the woman which thou sawest is that great city [earthly Jerusalem], which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

 

[Earburner]

David prayed "take not Thy holy spirit from me" which means he had the holy spirit dwelling within him.

There is nothing in the OT to suggest this indwelling was temporary.

The Cross merely provided a fullness of that same indwelling spirit not seen in the OT.

And so on the day that Jesus shed His innocent blood, as the sin bearer of all the world, it didn't need to be shed for them, who were people of faith under the OC., looking for "the promise that was to come"?

I hope that you know that the Righteousness of God and His Gift of Eternal Life, COULD ONLY BE PERMANENTLY GIVEN, AFTER one has put their faith in the shed blood of Christ, so that their sins could be both forgiven AND REMOVED.

The blood of animals, under the OC. could NEVER REMOVE ones sins. Therefore if there be no removal of sins from a person , then there will be NO GIFT of Eternal Life coming from God to them, who is found in such a condition.

 

[Zao is life]

The prophecy of the 10 horns in Daniel was given to him in 525+/- BC. That prophecy reveals that 10Hs are seen by Daniel in his vision, as well as John seeing them again in his vision in 96 AD. The only prophecy that gives account of any future activity by the 10Hs, is Rev. 17:12-18.

[12] And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; BUT receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
[13] These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
[14] These [the Beast with the10 kings] shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
[15] And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore [Israel] sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
[16] And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall HATE the whore [Israel], and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
[17] For God hath put in their hearts [of the 10Hs] to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom [10 kings of Europe] unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
[18] And the woman which thou sawest is that great city [earthly Jerusalem], which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

So where does Revelation give an account of a little horn rising up among them and plucking three out by the roots?

It doesn't. Revelation states that the ten horns will hand over their power and authority to the beast ascended from the abyss.

The first ten are not the same as the last ten. They are a type of the last ten. Only, you won't understand that, because you deny history and the fact that the ten horns rule with a beast ascended from the abyss that had existed before the days of the Roman Empire when John received the Revelation but no longer existed.​

 

[Zao is life]

This is also incorrect. Greece is not the beast either. The beast of the 8th kingdom is the head of the dragon, Satan himself.

In 95/96 AD John was told:

"The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the abyss, and go into perdition. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive authority as kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful."

"And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority."

The Lion of Daniel's prophecy was Babylon. The bear was Media-Persia. The leopard was the Greek kingdom of Alexander the Great. It split into 4 kingdoms after his death which eventually became amalgamated with either the (Greek) Seleucid Empire of which Antiochus IV Epiphanes rose out of, or the (Greek) Ptolemaic Egyptian kingdom.

That's five kingdoms, all of which ceased to exist by the time Rome became an empire.

"And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space."

The sixth kingdom that existed when John was told the above, was the Roman Empire. The ten kings did not exist yet.

"And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive authority as kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful."

"The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the abyss, and go into perdition. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition."

It's like a guy getting divorced seven times and getting married 8 times but his 8th wife was also his 4th wife.​

 

[Earburner]

So where does Revelation give an account of a little horn rising up among them and plucking three out by the roots?​

I agree!! There was only one little horn, Antiochus Epiphanes lV of the Seleucid kingdom OF the Grecian Empire. No other of another little horn shall ever come again. That prophecy was fulfilled.

The three horns that were plucked up by the roots were: the 2 horns on the 2nd "Ram BEAST"- Medio/Persia, and the 1 notable horn on the 3rd "He Goat BEAST".

It doesn't. Revelation states that the ten horns will hand over their power and authority to the beast ascended from the abyss.​

I Agree!!

The first ten are not the same as the last ten. They are a type of the last ten. Only, you won't understand that, because you deny history and the fact that the ten horns rule with a beast ascended from the abyss that had existed before the days of the Roman Empire when John received the Revelation but no longer existed.​

The symbolic language of that prophecy of the 10 horns, has not ever been on the world stage. It still has not been fulfilled, manifested in the flesh.

Can history be manipulated and fabricated to make it look like they have been? Of course, but even at this moment, there isn't even a shadow of such a reality. They are not any where to be found, seen or known of, because....they will suddenly be selected and appointed by the 1st BEAST of Revelation 17
[12] And the ten horns which thou sawest [in the vision] are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power AS kings one hour with the beast.

The reason being is, that Beast, which really still is the 4th of Daniel, has been evolving, and will show itself as being a Global Economic Empire of the Banking Elite, who has NO ARMY OR WEAPONS.
Horns are symbolic of kingdoms having militaries and weapons, for defense and offense.

There are NO militaries or weapons that can destroy a BEAST, that rules the world by the use of Digitized MONEY. Therefore, the words: "who is ABLE to make WAR with the BEAST?" shall be fulfilled, in THAT way!! Rev. 13:4.
They are doomed to failure before they start, by shutting off their money supply.

The "MoB" will control individuals;
by it's NAME it will control governments;
by it's NUMBER it will control businesses. Rev. 13:17.
As one member of the Rothchild family did say: "He who controls the money, controls the WORLD."

The "MoB" has to do with "buying and selling" on all levels of human society and economics.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

"Little children, it is the end time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the end time." John 2:18

i.e "Antichrist shall come. There are already many antichrists. This is how we know that it is the end time".

It's still the end time, and there are still many antichrists. It does not mean that the antichrist that John said shall come, has already come.

Just saying, because it seems to me to be a little shortsighted to say that the antichrist that John said shall come is the same as the many antichrists that have already come.

IMO it may yet prove to have been shortsighted not to bear the possibility in mind that John is making a distinction between the global rule of the antichrist spirit (the antichrist that shall come) and the many antichrists in-between the time that John wrote, and the end time of the global rule of the antichrist spirit - which is the antichrist that shall come.

I completely disagree. You need to look at all of the verses that speak of antichrist to get the full understanding. It wasn't an individual Antichrist that was said to come, but rather "that spirit of antichrist" is what they heard was coming (1 John 4:3), which would manifest in those who deny Christ, all of which are antichrists, and of which many were in the world already at that time. An individual Antichrist is simply never in view in any of the verses that reference antichrist. That is obvious to me. I believe the idea of a future individual Antichrist is part of the false doctrinal system of dispensationalism and is not taught in scripture. So, we will have to agree to disagree on this.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Revelation 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

The seven mountains are where the woman turned prostitute sits, i.e. Rome

Revelation 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

The ten EU kings will burn the Vatican to the ground.

Your thinking is so carnal. You need to learn to think spiritually instead.

It says it takes a mind that has wisdom to understand what the seven heads represent as seven mountains. That's talking about spiritual wisdom. No spiritual wisdom is necessary in order to interpret the seven mountains literally the way you do.

Revelation 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:

You interpret the mountains that the woman sits on literally. To be consistent, I assume you interpret the "many waters" the harlot woman sits on literally as well? Which would obviously be a false interpretation:

Revelation 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

I'm sure in reality that you don't interpret the "many waters" that the woman sits on literally, so why interpret the mountains she sits on literally? We are given a major clue as to what the mountains represent when it says the seven heads are also seven kings. Mountains represent kingdoms symbolically in scripture. So, the seven heads symbolically represent seven kingdoms and, obviously, all kingdoms have kings.

Doug, there's no rhyme or reason to your method of interpretation. It has no consistency. That's why I can't take your beliefs seriously.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The sixth king was ruling at the time of John. So the formula you came up with does not work, as none of the four generals were alive at the time of John. The four generals lived 300 years before John. And after Alexander died, they battled against each other to see who would inherit Alexander's kingdom - who said to them before dying that the strongest of them would inherit his kingdom.

The sixth king is the sixth of a family of kings (the Caesars) of the fourth kingdom of Daniel 7 - the Roman Empire.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

Whether or not the beast king will refer to himself as Caesar remains to be seen. Maybe, maybe not.

The European Economic Community (forerunner of the EU) was formed in 1957 by the treaty of Rome, interestingly.

No matter what you say, Doug, prophetic beasts are kingdoms.

Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

You can't try to differentiate the heads of the beast from the beast itself. The heads represent different historical manifestations of the beast. Five kingdoms/empires had fallen before John wrote the book of Revelation. The head that "is" at the time John wrote the book was the Roman empire. That was what the beast represented at that time, but in the past it was represented by other world empires like the Babylonian, Media-Persian and Greek empires. It is unacceptable to try to change scripture's definition of a prophetic beast, which is that it is a kingdom. Therefore, whatever head is in power at any given time is representative of the beast kingdom at that time in history.

 

[Earburner]

In 95/96 AD John was told:

"The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the abyss, and go into perdition. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive authority as kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful."

"And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority."

The Lion of Daniel's prophecy was Babylon. The bear was Media-Persia. The leopard was the Greek kingdom of Alexander the Great. It split into 4 kingdoms after his death which eventually became amalgamated with either the (Greek) Seleucid Empire of which Antiochus IV Epiphanes rose out of, or the (Greek) Ptolemaic Egyptian kingdom.

That's five kingdoms, all of which ceased to exist by the time Rome became an empire.

"And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space."

The sixth kingdom that existed when John was told the above, was the Roman Empire. The ten kings did not exist yet.

"And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive authority as kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful."

"The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the abyss, and go into perdition. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition."

It's like a guy getting divorced seven times and getting married 8 times but his 8th wife was also his 4th wife.​

The 3rd beast, the Grecian Empire never had 10 horns!! However the 4th beast, the Roman Empire, being the 1st Beast in Rev., both are shown to have 10 horns, of which have not been manifested as yet.

 

[Timtofly]

In 95/96 AD John was told:

"The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the abyss, and go into perdition. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive authority as kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful."

"And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority."

The Lion of Daniel's prophecy was Babylon. The bear was Media-Persia. The leopard was the Greek kingdom of Alexander the Great. It split into 4 kingdoms after his death which eventually became amalgamated with either the (Greek) Seleucid Empire of which Antiochus IV Epiphanes rose out of, or the (Greek) Ptolemaic Egyptian kingdom.

That's five kingdoms, all of which ceased to exist by the time Rome became an empire.

"And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space."

The sixth kingdom that existed when John was told the above, was the Roman Empire. The ten kings did not exist yet.

"And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive authority as kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful."

"The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the abyss, and go into perdition. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition."

It's like a guy getting divorced seven times and getting married 8 times but his 8th wife was also his 4th wife.​

The 7th head is Satan. Satan's home is the pit. It is like Satan has deceived the nations of the world and will keep deceiving them until they are destroyed at Armageddon, and Satan is bound for a thousand years.

 

[Zao is life]

I completely disagree. You need to look at all of the verses that speak of antichrist to get the full understanding. It wasn't an individual Antichrist that was said to come, but rather "that spirit of antichrist" is what they heard was coming (1 John 4:3), which would manifest in those who deny Christ, all of which are antichrists, and of which many were in the world already at that time. An individual Antichrist is simply never in view in any of the verses that reference antichrist. That is obvious to me. I believe the idea of a future individual Antichrist is part of the false doctrinal system of dispensationalism and is not taught in scripture. So, we will have to agree to disagree on this.

OK. Well, I will just have to wait to see whether or not the beast of Revelation 13:2 denies that Christ has come in the flesh and hence will be an antichrist beast- the final antichrist (whether he/it is a man, or ten kings). Which it seems to me is the same as the 8th king/dom of Revelation 17.​

 

[Zao is life]

The 7th head is Satan. Satan's home is the pit. It is like Satan has deceived the nations of the world and will keep deceiving them until they are destroyed at Armageddon, and Satan is bound for a thousand years.

Yes. Each head of the dragon is wearing a crown in Revelation 12 but in Revelation 13 the dragon has given the beast his seat, power and great authority - and the crowns have shifted to the ten horns of the beast,

and those then kings will reign contemporaneously for "one hour" with the beast that ascended from the abyss, which (or who) the 8th king/dom (Revelation 17), which will continue for 42 months (Revelation 13).