So you are saying your friends and relatives who are not yet Christians - are antichrists ?
The Prophetic Timeline: Why Jesuit Futurists/Jesuit Preterists Ignore It
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Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
That's a minor miracle in itself, regardless of whether you agree or not.
That's not what you were saying before. You were saying they were formerly Christians and then left John's church, his circle of Christians or whatever it was that comprised the "us" that John was talking about.
Nope. You are making that rule up, but John didn't say that. He didn't say that antichrists can only be the ones that left his church or group and were not of them. Those were examples of antichrists, but antichrists are anyone who denies Christ.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
If they deny Christ, they are. As you always do, you are making something simple complicated instead. To be antichrist means you are against Christ and deny Christ. Very simple.
Jesus Himself said this:
Matthew 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
If you don't think non-Christians are antichrists, do you also deny that those who are not with Christ are against Him?
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Did you just ignore it when I said this, Doug:
They did not hear that an individual antichrist was coming, they heard "that spirit of antichrist" was coming which all antichrists have.
1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
So, what they heard was coming was "that spirit of antichrist" that would be in all of the many antichrists that were coming with many already being in the world at that time. Once again you have failed to interpret scripture in context and failed to interpret a verse in such a way that doesn't contradict other scripture.
In no way, shape or form did John say anything about an individual Antichrist. That is completely biased nonsense. He wrote about "that spirit of antichrist" that they heard was coming and said it was already in the world at that time and was already in many antichrists at that time. That's it. Nothing about an imaginary individual Antichrist.
Doug, you are severely lacking in spiritual discernment. Please ask God for wisdom (James 1:5-7).
There is no "the Antichrist". John identifies that as hearsay: " ye have heard that antichrist shall come"
He corrects that misapprehension by describing that antichrist is legion and was already present when he wrote.
"The Antichrist" is futurist fallacy and fantasy.
In 1John4:1-3, John was referring to the many false prophets that were arising in his time - who were under the spirit of antichrist. John was not saying that were would not be the singular coming Antichrist. The spirit of antichrist will be reflected by the singular Antichrist person who is soon to be revealed, in his first stage as the little horn .
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
You continue to make things up that John didn't say. Nowhere did he reference a singular Antichrist, but rather he referenced many antichrists who all were influenced by "that spirit of antichrist". You repeatedly try to twist scripture to make it say what you want it to say and it's disturbing how you have no conscience about that.
the end times person...
little horn > becomes the prince that shall come > becomes the Antichrist > becomes the revealed man of sin > becomes the beast
Who do you say is the beast king of Revelation, that will get cast into the lake of fire in Revelation 19:20 ?
Earburner
Well-Known Member
Even if my friends and relatives, being ONLY in their unsaved condition of "the natural man", did believe in God, but denied that Jesus was Eternal Holy Spirit, being One with God the Father, BEFORE he was born into the world, In that regard, they would be "of that [evil] spirit of antichrist".
By the way, that is exactly what Orthodox and Zionist ISRAEL does today!! They believe in the God of the Torah/OT Bible, but deny their own Messiah/Savior, who is Jesus. Quite literally, they are of that spirit of antichrist!
Now, for one to say that about Israel, is that being antisemitic? Absolutely not!!
When one understands that all who claim that Abraham is their literal father, through Ishmael and Isaac, demanding equal physical heritage, are they not ALL literally Semites? Yes!
How is Israel doing in that family setting, in the Mid-east??? Are they not all being antisemitic towards each other?
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Earburner
Well-Known Member
First, It's NOT "beast king", but rather the beast kingdom, of which will be a global ECONOMIC empire. Clue: Rev. 13:16-17.
Secondly, "the lake of fire", is the entirety of the earth's surface, that will be "the lake of fire", of molten lava, because of Jesus' visible and Glorious Presence from HEAVEN, in flaming fire.
Luke 17:28-30; 2 Thes. 1:7-10; 2 Peter 3:10
.
Revelation 17:
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
The beast person is a king, king eight. Who will also be king seven - before being kill and brought back to life.
The ten kings that will rule with the beast will give their kingdom to him.
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
little horn (king 7) > becomes the prince that shall come > becomes the Antichrist > becomes the revealed man of sin > becomes the beast king (king 8)
The beast kingdom will be the EU, the Roman Empire manifested in the end times.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
That's complete nonsense that is just a fabrication of your own wild imagination.
The beast isn't a king. Prophetic beasts are kingdoms.
Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
Also, the beast "was" before John wrote the book. That cannot describe a human being because he would be long dead by now. My understanding of the beast is that it represents Satan's world empire/kingdom (he is "the god of this world" - 2 Cor 4:4) at any given time in history. It has taken on different forms such as with the Babylonian empire, The Media-Persian empire, the Greek empire and the Roman empire. But, it always represents the kingdom of the world that opposes God.
The seven heads of the beast are called seven mountains because "mountains" in scripture symbolically represent kingdoms. Yes, kingdoms have kings, but the beast itself is the world kingdom that has been manifested in different ways through history. If you want me to name the king of the beast kingdom, then I would say it is the dragon, Satan.
Revelation 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
You can think of the dragon and the beast this way:
Matthew 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. 37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; 38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. 40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Notice here that in the parable of the wheat and tares, "the field is the world". Jesus said we are in the world, but not of the world. The good seed or wheat, represent "the children of the kingdom". Those who are in the kingdom of God. While the tares are "the children of the wicked one" which is "the devil". So, the tares represent those who are part of the kingdom of the devil, which is this evil world.
The beast makes war with the saints. The beast is "the world". Satan's kingdom.
John 15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. 19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
More nonsense. The heads of the beast represent kingdoms and kings, but prophet beasts always represent kingdoms. You never use scripture to interpret scripture while being careful to avoid contradictions or conclusions that are pure nonsense. Instead, you try to force unrelated scripture to relate together.
Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
Also, only God can resurrect the dead and He surely would never resurrect some evil "beast person". This is nothing more than sensationalistic nonsense coming from you.
Revelation 17:10 says that the seven heads are (also) seven kings.
That they are kings is demonstrated that in Revelation 12, the seven heads have crowns.
Revelation 17 - no crowns on the heads
..............................no crowns on the horns
Revelation 12 - crowns on the heads
................................no crowns on the horns
Revelation 13 - no crowns on the heads
...............................crowns on the horns
Revelation 17 - first century status
Revelation 12 - at the start of the 7 year 70th week, end times
Revelation 13 - with 42 months left in the 7 year 70th week, end times
seven heads - seven kings (of the Roman Empire)
1. Julius Caesar
2. Augustus Caesar
3. Tiberius
4. Caligula
5. Claudius
6. Nero
7. end times little horn
........... a. 7 heads have their crowns, Revelation 12:3. 7 years left in that chapter.
8. beast king (the little horn killed and brought back to life). Rules 42 months, Revelation 13:5
.............a. 7 heads no crowns, Revelation 13:1. king 7 killed, and brought back to life, Revelation 13:3.
............ b. ten horns - ten kings who give their kingdom to the beast-king (Revelation 17:17).
............................................rule with the beast king (Revelation 17:12).
............................................have their crowns in Revelation 13:1 for 42 months.
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Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Seven mountains = seven kingdoms. Mountains symbolically represent kingdoms in scripture. But, prophet beasts are ALWAYS kingdoms (Daniel 7:23). Why won't you acknowledge this? Do you think Daniel 7:23 is not true? The beast represents Satan's kingdom throughout history and it has been led by different kings and kingdoms throughout history including the Babylonian empire, Media-Persian empire, Greek empire and Roman empire.
I'm not denying that the heads represent kings, Doug. But, they also represent their kingdoms. The beast kingdom is Satan's world kingdom at any given time in history, but it doesn't always have the same head. The heads represent the historical kingdoms (kingdoms have kings, of course) of the world. It appears that the final manifestation of the beast kingdom will be kind of a mix of all the previous 7 kingdoms. That's the kingdom that is in place now. The Roman empire is no longer in power, obviously. That one was the sixth head. The one that John said "is" at the time he wrote the book with five previous kingdoms/world empires having fallen before that. A seventh head would follow for some undefined amount of time and then the eight beast kingdom would arise that would not be a world empire led by any particular earthly nation or city like past world empires were, but would be kind of a mix of all of them together which is why it says it is "of the seven".
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Revelation 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
The seven mountains are where the woman turned prostitute sits, i.e. Rome
Revelation 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
The ten EU kings will burn the Vatican to the ground.
As an aggregate, the ten kings give their kingdom (the EU) to the beast - to be dictator of the EU.
It is kingdom singular in Revelation 17:17
17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
Not in its former form.
Earburner
Well-Known Member
The two verses, Rev. 17:10-11 are two different thoughts. 17:10 is about the 7 kingdoms of the 3 beast kingDOMS, shown in Daniel:
1- Babylon
1- Medio-Persia
1- Grecian- Alex the Great
4- Grecian- four generals.
All totalling to 7 kingdoms.
17:11 is about specific details concerning the 4th BEAST kingdom (the 8th kingdom), that has been evolving since the Roman Empire collapsed, yet continued to live, being that of Europe
Once it has evolved and manifested itself into it's final stage, in God's mind, it will continue by remaining as the 8th kingdom, but in a DIFFERENT FORM, thus making it to be the FINAL PHASE of the 8th kingdom, because it never died.
It will be a Global Economic Empire.
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Zao is life
Well-Known Member
"Little children, it is the end time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the end time." John 2:18
i.e "Antichrist shall come. There are already many antichrists. This is how we know that it is the end time".
It's still the end time, and there are still many antichrists. It does not mean that the antichrist that John said shall come, has already come.
Just saying, because it seems to me to be a little shortsighted to say that the antichrist that John said shall come is the same as the many antichrists that have already come.
IMO it may yet prove to have been shortsighted not to bear the possibility in mind that John is making a distinction between the global rule of the antichrist spirit (the antichrist that shall come) and the many antichrists in-between the time that John wrote, and the end time of the global rule of the antichrist spirit - which is the antichrist that shall come.
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