The Prophetic Timeline: Why Jesuit Futurists/Jesuit Preterists Ignore It

[Zao is life]

I agree to all of the historical events that you have shown in the reference you posted, however the 4th beast did NOT directly come out of the 3rd beast. The Romans overtook and acquired the Grecian 3rd beast in 146 BC., making it part of the 4th beast. Rev. 17:11 reveals all of that about the seven (7) heads.
[11] And the [fourth] beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
The eighth (8th) head (having ten horns) was the Roman Empire, but of now it is not, and yet is, being of the seven (7).

All of the four previous empires, ruled the world by the use of militaries (horns). However, the last stage of the ever evolving 4th beast (the 8th head), shall rule the world by Gold- Digital MONEY. It will be a Global Economic Empire, of which all the world has never known!
It's identification will be it's "calling card" to ALL people:
"And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name." Rev. 13:17.
We are to know that the 4th Beast, in it's prime, WAS the Roman Empire, but in it's LAST and final stage of it's evolving, it will become a Global Economic Empire.

As for the counting of the "heads" on the 4th beast (first beast in Rev.), we know of the "four heads" of the Hellenistic kingdoms, being the Four Generals, but who the other three (3) "heads" were before/prior to them, no one here seems to know or understand it.
They were:
Babylon-1 head of Gold
Medio/Persia-1 head of a Ram.
Greece- 1 head of a he-Goat
Hellenistic kingdoms- "4 heads", being the four Generals that succeeded Alex the Great, after his death.
All of which totals to seven (7) heads.

We must not forget that all four beasts were world ruling in their time of succession, in coming upon the earth, aka the abyss, to which satan was cast down to from out of heaven.

To be brief, Antiochus Epiphanes lV (the little horn) did rise up among the ten horns of the Roman Republic, BUT, being of the Grecian 3rd beast, he was NOT of the ten Roman horns. There is no other "little horn" to come in the future!

Without repeating the historical record, that you have shown, we must follow through with our focus on the "spiritual" for a better understanding. 1 Cor. 2
[13] Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Yes, we must disregard all Eschatology that denominational "church-ianity" has fabricated and foisted upon all the world, raising their false masterpiece, being that of a singular, one man band, miracle man.
There is no such description found in the KJV or the TR Greek text, being that of a singular, future "little horn", that "church-ianity" calls: "THE" Antichrist.

All should immediately recognize that the words "the son of perdition" is to be understood in the plural. The NT scriptures reveal that Judas Iscariot was not the only one, who is doomed to destruction. All of such are known as, "the natural man", "the man of lawlessness", "the son of perdition" [destruction], being THEY [plural] who are of "THAT [singular] spirit OF antichrist". Rom.8:9.

"The beast that you saw was (existed before now), and is not (does not exist now)". -- Revelation 17:8

The Roman Empire existed when John received the Revelation.

The Roman Empire did not exist when the four heads of the beast rose out of the third kingdom.

The 4th kingdom rose out of the 4 Greek kingdoms:

Daniel 8
21 And the shaggy goat is the king of Greece. And the great horn between his eyes is the first king.
22 And as for that being broken, and four stood up in its place; four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in its power.
23 And in the latter time of THEIR kingdom, when the transgressors have come to the full, a king, fierce of face, and skilled at intrigues, shall stand up.
24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power. And he shall destroy marvelously, and shall prosper and work, and destroy the mighty and the holy people.

The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to ascend out of the abyss and go into perdition.

It was not in the latter time of the Roman Empire that the 4th kingdom rose from out of the four kingdoms.​

The Revelation does not talk about the ten kings to come uprooting 3 kings. You have added that yourself, and the way you change the history plus the meaning of biblical prophecy in order to make it comply with your faulty eschatology shows by the things you assert - because the things you assert are not written.

​

"The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to ascend out of the abyss and go into perdition. And those dwelling on the earth will marvel, those whose names were not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is." -- Revelation 17:8.

The 4th Greek kingdom was the kingdom of Antiochus IV Epiphanes, the type of the one who is to come - and the prophecies regarding the 4th kingdom was not all fulfilled by him or in his days:

Daniel 7:26-27
"But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his rulership (done by the Maccabees), to cut off and to destroy until the end. And the kingdom and rulership, and the greatness of the kingdom under all the heavens, shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom."

(The kingdom of God in Judea was given to the saints of the Most High after Antiochus IV was ousted)

"And all kingdoms shall serve and obey Him." - still not fulfilled in the way described.

The scattering of the power of the holy people and only the wise understanding applied just as much to the faithful Jewish remnant during the days of Antiochus IV (the type) as it will (still future tense) to the faithful remnant in Christ (the antitype).

Daniel 12
"And at that time Michael shall stand up, the great ruler who stands for the sons of your people" (God helping the Maccabees, and God helping the saints when Christ returns in judgment of the beast).

"And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation; until that time" (indeed the time of Antiochus IV was such a time, and the end of the Age before the return of Christ will be such a time - Matthew 24:21).

"And at that time your people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book" (the faithful Jewish remnant were delivered from the hand of Antiochus IV, and the faithful saints will be delivered when Jesus returns).

The verse below is also true of the time of Antiochus IV, and will be true at the end of the Age before the return of Jesus:

"And those who are wise shall shine as the brightness of the sky; and those who turn many to righteousness shall shine as the stars forever and ever."

8 And I heard, but I did not understand. Then I said, O my lord, what shall be the end of these things?
9 And He said, Go, Daniel! For the words are closed up and sealed until the end-time.

10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried. But the wicked shall do wickedly. And none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand. (happened during the time of Antiochus IV also).

- but the verse below was not fulfilled when Antiochus IV was defeated by the Maccabees:

2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Daniel's 4th beast seems is projecting forward in time to the final kingdom of the beast of the Revelation, and vice-versa, making the first a type of the last:

Revelation 17:8
"The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to ascend out of the abyss and go into perdition. And those dwelling on the earth will marvel, those whose names were not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is."

Antiochus IV did not come up among 10 "Roman" kings. He came up from among 10 kings of the Greek kingdoms, getting rid of 3 legitimate heirs to seize the throne - like if Prince Harry were to ensure that his brother and nephews - the legitimate heirs - get murdered so that he could seize the throne (which I'm 100% sure Prince Harry would never do, of course - I'm just mentioning it so that you and all Christians can understand who Antiochus IV Epiphanes was, and how he uprooted three kings to seize the throne).​

The final ten kings will hand over their power and authority to the final beast that ascends from the abyss - he will not be uprooting 3 kings like Antiochus IV Epiphanes did. Neither did any ruler following the death and resurrection of Christ. Neither Daniel nor the Revelation say anything of the sort. What you assert is not written. You have added your own denominational false eschatological premise to scripture and you believe the lies produced by the additions to scripture that you preach in your post.

 

[Zao is life]

The 3rd beast is represented as the "he goat", aka the Grecian empire, of which was overtaken by the Roman Republic in 146 BC.

Your date is totally false, and your information in your post is totally false. It's simply not true, historically. The Roman Republic did not become an empire in control of (the Western part of) the 4 Greek kingdoms until after 31 BC, after the death of Cleopatra, last queen of the Ptolemaic kingdom of Egypt, died. She died in circa 30 BC.

Rome never ever ruled over anything except the Western portions of the former Greek kingdom of Alexander the Great, and the four Greek kingdoms which succeeded it.

Of those four Greek kingdoms (that were finally established after the Diadoche wars following Alexander's death), two were most dominant: The Ptolemaic Egyptian kingdom (the kings of the South) and the Seleucid Empire (the kings of the North), which Antiochus IV eventually rose out of.

Rome never ever ruled over most of the former Seleucid Empire.

You false dating of when Rome became an empire is so easy to find.

"The Roman Empire was the state ruled by the Romans following Octavian's assumption of sole rule under the Principate in 27 BC, the post-Republican state of ancient Rome. It included territories in Europe, North Africa, and Western Asia." (Wikipedia: Roman Empire).

Most of the Eastern part of the Greek kingdom never came under Roman rule. The Roman kingdom has nothing to do with the greatest part of the 4th Greek kingdom, most of which was never ever included in the Roman Empire.

And your dating of when Rome (the Roman Republic) became an Empire is historically false.

The Roman Empire existed when John received the Revelation. The four Greek kingdom/s no longer existed as empires.

The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to ascend out of the abyss and go into perdition.

As is the case with Preterist, Partial Preterist and S.D.A denominational eschatology, your information is historically inaccurate and your denominational eschatology that you have based on inaccurate and false information, has produced lies that you have come to believe and have convinced yourself of.

The greatest extent of the Roman Empire AD 117

 

[Earburner]

Daniel's 4th beast seems is projecting forward in time to the final kingdom of the beast of the Revelation, and vice-versa, making the first a type of the last:​

Foregoing all of the hit or miss historic documentation of earthly events, let's examine the spiritual application in prophecy, as Paul directs us to do, in 1 Cor. 2:12-16.
[12] Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might KNOW the things that are freely given to us of God.
[13] Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

I understand typology, but I don't think you are grasping the two Ages of the OC and NC.
All, who were under the OC., lived in the "Age of God's Indignation", upto the Day of Jesus' first appearance.
After Jesus' mortal death, and Him "yielding up the ghost" (His eternal "Quickening Spirit) on His cross, thus began the NC., the "Age of God's Grace".

The book of Daniel was for Israel ("thy people"), the symbolic 144,000, as is the book of Revelation for the "invisible church" of all born again saints, the "great multitude".

There was a literal "resurrection" of OC Israel, who were "remembered" by God (Malachi 3:16; Mat. 27:53-54; Rev. 6:9-11), when Jesus "yielded up the ghost", and there shall be, upon Jesus' Glorious return, in flaming fire, the resurrection of the great multitude, being both Jew and Gentile, who have accepted and received Jesus as their Savior.

Revelation 17:8
"The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to ascend out of the abyss and go into perdition. And those dwelling on the earth will marvel, those whose names were not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is."

Antiochus IV did not come up among 10 "Roman" kings. He came up from among 10 kings of the Greek kingdoms, getting rid of 3 legitimate heirs to seize the throne - like if Prince Harry were to ensure that his brother and nephews - the legitimate heirs - get murdered so that he could seize the throne (which I'm 100% sure Prince Harry would never do, of course - I'm just mentioning it so that you and all Christians can understand who Antiochus IV Epiphanes was, and how he uprooted three kings to seize the throne).​

The final ten kings will hand over their power and authority to the final beast that ascends from the abyss - he will not be uprooting 3 kings like Antiochus IV Epiphanes did. Neither did any ruler following the death and resurrection of Christ. Neither Daniel nor the Revelation say anything of the sort. What you assert is not written. You have added your own denominational false eschatological premise to scripture and you believe the lies produced by the additions to scripture that you preach in your post.

I strongly disagree!
Dan. 8
[19] And he said, Behold, I [Gabriel] will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end [of the indignation] shall be.
[20] The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.
[21] And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king [Alex the Great].
[22] Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it [in it's place], four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation [of the 3rd beast], but not in his power.
[23] And in the latter time of their [Grecian] kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up [AE-lV].
[24] And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people [of Israel].

BTW, I speak by no denominational eschalogical premise by "the wisdom of men", but I do speak according to what the Holy Spirit teaches. 1 Cor. 2:13.

2B Cont'd....

 

[Zao is life]

Your own denominational (mis)interpretations of scripture are being put forward by yourself as fact again, making them lies (because much of the things you say are not true - they are false).

You will never see your error without the intervention of the Holy Spirit because your ears have been made dull of hearing by your false theology and belief in your own human wisdom displayed in your final statement which I quote last in this post, so I can only pray for you, but I say this for the benefit of the readers.​

The book of Daniel was for Israel ("thy people"), the symbolic 144,000, as is the book of Revelation for the "invisible church" of all born again saints, the "great multitude".

There is no 144,000 mentioned in the book of Daniel. Your hermeneutics regarding this is non-hermeneutics plucked out of nowhere and your theology is false.

The 144,00 in the Revelation is quite possibly a symbolic 144,00 representing the totality of all God promised Abraham in His very first promise to Abraham in Genesis 17:3-6:

"And Abram fell on his face. And God talked with him, saying, As for Me, behold! My covenant is with you, and you shall be a father of a multitude of gôyim (Gentiles/Gentile nations). Neither shall your name any more be called Abram, but your name shall be Abraham. For I have made you a father of a multitude of gôyim, (Gentiles/Gentile nations). And I will make you exceedingly fruitful, greatly so, and I will make gôyim (Gentiles/Gentile nations) of you, and kings shall come out of you."

In God's very first promise to Abraham, He used the word gôy (plural gôyim) three times. This fact should make it obvious to Jew and Gentile alike that God was not ever speaking of only one ethnic nation.

God's purpose and plan for choosing Abraham was to make him the father of many (Gentile) nations, and through Abraham's seed (Jesus), to bless all families of the earth. This could not have come to pass if Abraham did not have a son called Isaac, who did not have a son called Jacob/Israel, who did not become the father of twelve sons, one of whom (Judah) became the patriarch of the tribe of Judah (the Jews), through whom God chose to bring the seed promised to Abraham (Jesus) into the world,

through Whom all the families of the earth are blessed (Jesus was born a Jew), and so Abraham became the father of a multitude of Gentile nations, just as God had promised.

The biblical scriptures are about THE seed of Abraham, who is Jesus the Christ.​

There was a literal "resurrection" of OC Israel, who were "remembered" by God (Malachi 3:16; Mat. 27:53-54; Rev. 6:9-11), when Jesus "yielded up the ghost"​

It's not stated in scripture who they were who were resurrected that day and there is no evidence of what you say above about their identity, nor is it implied in the scriptures you quote above, nor is it implied anywhere else in scripture. You and others have made up their identity and now teach it as though it's fact. You lie to yourself and then expect others to believe the same lies.​

, and there shall be, upon Jesus' Glorious return, in flaming fire, the resurrection of the great multitude, being both Jew and Gentile, who have accepted and received Jesus as their Savior.​

There will be a resurrection of the dead when Jesus returns. You're very good at mixing truth with lies. Have you ever heard that oil and water do not mix?

[23] And in the latter time of their [Grecian] kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up [AE-lV].

It means what it says but you misquote it.
​

And the shaggy goat is the king of Greece. And the great horn between his eyes is the first king. And as for that being broken, and four stood up in its place; four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in its power. And in the latter time of their kingdom, .."

(in the latter time of the kings of the Greek kingdom after it was divided into four parts)

" ..when the transgressors have come to the full,

a king, fierce of face, and skilled at intrigues, shall stand up. And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power.

and historically has been proved to have been correct (to the extent that many historians today insist that Daniel could not have written these things so long before the time because he was too accurate and therefore must have written the "prophecy" after the events had already taken place).

Historians and Jewish Rabbis alike all know that It was in the latter time of the four Greek kingdoms that came from the kingdom of Alexander the Great - BEFORE Rome became an empire. It was not in the latter time of the Roman Empire, nor in the early days of the Roman Empire. It was DURING the time of the Roman Republic and BEFORE the time of the Roman Empire.​

[24] And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people [of Israel].

It was Antiochus IV Epihanes at the time that he placed an abomination of desolation (singular) in the holy place of the 2nd temple in 167 BC. Your theology is produced from your and others' own stubborn refusal to acknowledge historical facts. Neither the city nor the temple were destroyed in the process. It's not talking about the people of the prince to come who was going to destroy the city and the sanctuary (Daniel 9:26), and it has nothing to do with Rome or the Roman Empire or the abominations (plural) of Daniel 9:27.

Your theology and well-established historical facts are at odds with one another - and it's because your theology is false.

BTW, I speak by no denominational eschalogical premise by "the wisdom of men", but I do speak according to what the Holy Spirit teaches. 1 Cor. 2:13

@Earburner
I should not have to tell you this, but understand that when you claim Holy Spirit authority as you did above, you are also claiming that the flock of Christ who can see that what you say is false, are people who are not led by the Holy Spirit.

Such a claim does not only display immaturity on your part, but also a false spiritual pride which is ungodly because it's divisive to the body of Christ - and is therefore not of the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit does not speak according to YOUR wisdom. Your claim above is blasphemous because much of what you say is false. The Holy Spirit has not taught you your false teaching about the Greek Empire and the Roman Empire and the Revelation.

You continue to claim God's authority and authorship of your false doctrines at your peril if you continue to do so, because your wisdom is indeed man's wisdom, and the very fact that you invoke Holy Spirit authority to imply that your wisdom and understanding is God's wisdom and understanding, is proof of this.

If what you claim were true then all Christians would agree with you and there would be no Christians who disagree. All Christians who are part of Christ's flock are led by the Holy Spirit. Many disagree with the things you say in your (own) human wisdom which produces your own (mis)interpretations of prophetic scripture (and parts of non-prophetic scripture besides).​

 

[Earburner]

Cont'd from my post #283:

Dan. 7
Verse 7 is mainly about the 4th beast:
[7] After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the [three] beasts that were before [prior to] it [Babylon, Medio-Persia, Grecian empire]; and it [the 4th beast] had ten horns.

Verse 7 repeated, with addendum:
[20] And of the ten HORNS that were in his head, and of the other ["little horn- AE-lV of the 3rd beast] which came up, and before [prior to] whom, [AE-lV] three [horns] fell [Ram-two horns and Alex the Great- one horn]; even of that [little] horn [AE-lV] that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows [of the 3rd beast].

Verse 20 Repeated, with even more details:
[24] And the ten horns out of this kingdom [the 4th beast] are ten kings [horns] that shall arise: and another [little horn-AE-lV of the 3rd beast] shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue [to make to appear low, humbled] three kings.

 

[Zao is life]

Cont'd from my post #283:

Dan. 7
Verse 7 is mainly about the 4th beast:
[7] After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the [three] beasts that were before it [Babylon, Medio-Persia, Grecian empire]; and it [the 4th beast] had ten horns.

Verse 7 repeated, with addendum:
[20] And of the ten HORNS that were in his head, and of the other ["little horn- AE-lV of the 3rd beast] which came up, and before [prior to] whom, [AE-lV] three [horns] fell [Ram-two horns and Alex the Great- one horn]; even of that [little] horn [AE-lV] that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows [of the 3rd beast].

Verse 20 Repeated, with even more details:
[24] And the ten horns out of this kingdom [the 4th] are ten kings that shall arise: and another [little horn-AE-lV of the 3rd beast] shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue [to make to appear low, humbled] three kings.

Those ten horns were not Roman Empire horns. That beast that Antiochus IV rose out from existed before the Roman Republic became an empire.

The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to ascend out of the abyss and go into perdition.

The Roman Empire had not ceased to exist as an empire when John received the above Revelation from Jesus.

 

[Phoneman777]

I agree with you. I showed the same in post #267, being that of when and how Jesus would return, by the KJV using the word "when" two times in 1 Thes. 2:7 and 10, whereby two events take place simultaneously: Vengeance upon the unsaved, and redemption upon the saved.

Good to hear. I know consensus doesn't determine what is and isn't truth, but sometimes a novel idea is so easily disputed one wonders how anyone could ever be lured by it.

 

[Earburner]

There will be a resurrection of the dead when Jesus returns. You're very good at mixing truth with lies. Have you ever heard that oil and water do not mix?

Since you want to complain against the truthful understanding of what I write, then maybe you have a better understanding than the simple one given, in KJV 2 Thes. 1:7-10, about the word " WHEN", written in two places, thus revealing that it shall be a simultaneous event in verse 7 and 10.

[7] And to you who are troubled rest with us, WHEN the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
[8] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[9] Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
[10] WHEN he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

 

[Earburner]

Those ten horns were not Roman Empire horns. That beast that Antiochus IV rose out from existed before the Roman Republic became an empire.

The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to ascend out of the abyss and go into perdition.

The Roman Empire had not ceased to exist as an empire when John received the above Revelation from Jesus.

I am not addressing how the 4th beast evolved after it became the Roman Empire. I am addressing when it came to be as a Roman Republic, while the 3rd Grecian beast was still ruling the world, in the latter time of their kingdom.

 

[Earburner]

Good to hear. I know consensus doesn't determine what is and isn't truth, but sometimes a novel idea is so easily disputed one wonders how anyone could ever be lured by it.

It may be disputed, but it can't be defeated.

 

[Phoneman777]

Yes, I agree!! Man BECAME a living soul.
He didn't get or receive from God "a living soul", as if it was something eternal or special, apart from all other air breathing life forms.
Scripture does reveal that truth, whereby "the breath of life" is simply oxygenated air.

Well, not necessarily - mere oxygenated air cannot animate the inanimate, but the "breath of life" air can.

I agree!!

See, that's why we must conclude that the Soul can only exist as a consequence of the union of the Body and the Breath - because the Soul is the resulting whole when the two parts are combined.

To say the Soul continues to exist after the Breath is removed from the Body is to say that light from an illuminated bulb continues to shine when the electric current is removed from it.

 

[Phoneman777]

Addressing this separately, I understand truthfully that "hades" is the grave, the state of the dead, who remain dead "beneath" the surface of the earth, and is not the fictional view of an eternal dwelling place for the eternal burning of so called eternally living "souls".

Now, if you would go back to my post (edit: #261 262) you will find that I did fully and scripturally explain that Jesus was NOT a living soul (as you and I understand it), but rather He was born in the likeness of our flesh, being a "Quickening Spirit".

Understanding of course, that before Jesus was made to be flesh, He has always been eternally alive as Spirit with God the Father.

Agreed! We're told "...the Same (Word) was with Him in the beginning" which is why the Cross was so unbearable for Him - it was the first time since eternity past that Jesus and the Father were separate.

Lord, may we all look upon the agony this must have caused you and repent!

 

[Phoneman777]

It may be disputed, but it can't be defeated.

Amen, Jesus is the Stone that the builders rejected that has become the Head, the Stone upon which the church is built, the Stone of our salvation, the Stone cut from no man's hands.

 

[Earburner]

Well, not necessarily - mere oxygenated air cannot animate the inanimate, but the "breath of life" air can.

Within Adam, God create all the millions of different living cells, prior to him receiving "the breath of life".
Q. What is it that our living cells require to stay alive?
A. Oxygenated air, that is picked up by the blood cells from our lungs.
Lev. 17
[11] For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

 

[Earburner]

Amen, Jesus is the Stone that the builders rejected that has become the Head, the Stone upon which the church is built, the Stone of our salvation, the Stone cut from no man's hands.

Amen!

 

[Earburner]

Agreed! We're told "...the Same (Word) was with Him in the beginning" which is why the Cross was so unbearable for Him - it was the first time since eternity past that Jesus and the Father were separate.

Lord, may we all look upon the agony this must have caused you and repent!

Oh yes Lord, the very words that you have given me, is now shared equally so by your Spirit through Phoneman: "it was the first time since eternity past that Jesus and the Father were separate."
May all who hear, understand the pain and anguish THEY BOTH endured for so long, just to save us from eternal death.
Amen!!

 

[Earburner]

Those ten horns were not Roman Empire horns. That beast that Antiochus IV rose out from existed before the Roman Republic became an empire.

The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to ascend out of the abyss and go into perdition.

The Roman Empire had not ceased to exist as an empire when John received the above Revelation from Jesus.

Q. Which beast did AE-lV rise from???
A. It was out of one of the four generals, specifically the Seleucid kingdom of the Grecian empire.
If you say AE-lV rose from out of the 3rd beast, then to that I agree!

 

[Earburner]

Historians and Jewish Rabbis alike all know that It was in the latter time of the four Greek kingdoms that came from the kingdom of Alexander the Great - BEFORE Rome became an empire. It was not in the latter time of the Roman Empire, nor in the early days of the Roman Empire. It was DURING the time of the Roman Republic and BEFORE the time of the Roman Empire.

I agree! If you follow my [insertions] in the scriptures I list, you will see that I am saying that which you just concluded.
All that I have been doing, is staying within that timeline, before the Roman Republic became the Roman Empire.
However, what most here disagree with, is my understanding that there is no "little horn" to come in the future, being that of a ficticious, one man band, miracle man, that "church-ianity" calls "THE" Antichrist.
"Beasts" are always symbolized as being operative empires. "Horns" and Heads" are military strength and forms of government, including defeated/collapsed empires.

 

[Zao is life]

Q. Which beast did AE-lV rise from???
A. It was out of one of the four generals, specifically the Seleucid kingdom of the Grecian empire.
If you say AE-lV rose from out of the 3rd beast, then to that I agree!

What you say above is historically inaccurate. Antiochus IV Epihanes did not rise out of the 3rd beast. The 4 kingdoms rose out of the 3rd beast. Antiochus IV Epiphanes was the 8th king of the Seleucid Empire - an empire which was one of the four kingdoms that rose out of the 3rd beast.

Alexander the Great was the 3rd beast. He died in 323 BC. The Seleucid Empire was only founded by Seleucus after his death.

Seleucus took the throne of the Seleucid kingdom - one of the 4 kingdoms that rose out of the 3rd beast - in 321 BC, but expanded his kingdom by conquest, eventually establishing the Seleucid Empire in 312 BC. I have included a map of its territory in this post.

Seleucus' descendant Antiochus III took the throne in 223 BC. His son Seleucus IV Philopator (not the same person as Antiochus IV Epiphanes) took the throne in 187 BC and his younger brother Antiochus IV Epiphanes seized the throne illegally from his nephew (Philopator's son) when Philopator was murdered in 175 BC.

The Seleucid Empire had already begun to lose territory, breaking up into smaller kingdoms, and after the death of Antiochus IV Epiphanes in 164 BC this break-up into smaller kingdoms occurred rapidly, and the former Seleucid Empire ceased to exist as an empire. Antiochus IV Epiphanes was the last king of that part of the empire of the 3rd beast. It was the latter days of the Greek kingdom.

The only part of the Greek Empire of Alexander that continued to exist as an empire after that, was Egypt of the Ptolemy dynasty (see the map). It ceased to exist in 30 BC when the last Queen of Egypt, Cleopatra, died. It officially became part of the Roman Empire in 27 BC.

ALL FOUR of the Greek kingdoms that you included in the seven kingdoms ceased to exist by 27 BC. The Greek kingdom/s are historically included in the first five heads of the beast of Revelation 17 that had all fallen by the time John received the Revelation.

Rome - the 6th head of the beast - existed as an empire by the time John received the Revelation, and the ten kings had not received any kingdom yet. The 10 kings are therefore not part of the 6th head of the beast - because they will hand over their power and authority to a beast that no longer existed when John received the Revelation - and in every way Antiochus IV Epiphanes (not his brother Seleucus IV Philopator, but Antiochus IV Epiphanes) is the type of that beast that had existed but no longer existed by the time John received the Revelation.

The 4th beast of Daniel comes from out of the four empires that came out of the 3rd beast of Daniel, and in those days (before John the apostle's day), it was all a Macedonian Greek kingdom and Macedonian Greek kingdoms that succeeded it, and Arabs were a minority population group in it. As we all know today it's mainly Arab (but also Persian/Iranian) and ruled by Islamic governments.

That beast that will rise from out of the abyss had completely ceased to exist by 27 BC. It no longer was in existence when John received the Revelation, and the 10 kings to come had not yet come - neither are we told that the beast will pluck up three other kings by the roots again, like Antriochus IV Epiphanes did. The Revelation says nothing of the sort. Antiochus IV Epiphanes did that by having the legitimate heirs who were before him in line to throne murdered. It will not happen again.

Antiochus IV Epiphanes fulfilled much of what is written about the 4th beast that will rise out of the four kingdoms that rose out of the 3rd beast, but he did not fulfill all of it, i.e not all that was prophesied about the 4th beast was fulfilled in his day. Some things remain to be fulfilled by the beast that by Johns day "was, is not, and will ascend out of the abyss".

Revelation tells us that that beast is like a leopard, having feet like those of a bear, and a mouth like that of a lion - the Babylonian, Persian and Greek kingdoms in reverse order, like looking into a mirror:

​

The latter days of the Seleucid Empire, 200 BC - which began to break up into smaller kingdoms even before Antiochus IV Epiphanes seized the throne in 175 BC.



Roman Empire when John received the Revelation. The beast that John was told "was and is not" is the above beast, not the Roman Empire.

 

[Zao is life]

I agree! If you follow my [insertions] in the scriptures I list, you will see that I am saying that which you just concluded.
All that I have been doing, is staying within that timeline, before the Roman Republic became the Roman Empire.
However, what most here disagree with, is my understanding that there is no "little horn" to come in the future, being that of a ficticious, one man band, miracle man, that "church-ianity" calls "THE" Antichrist.
"Beasts" are always symbolized as being operative empires. "Horns" and Heads" are military strength and forms of government, including defeated/collapsed empires.

The little horn was Antiochus IV Epiphanes - the king that had existed but no longer existed by the time of the Roman Empire - the king who became the type of the beast that will ascend from the abyss - the beast which the 10 kings of the Revelation (who had not yet come when the Roman Empire of John's day existed) - will hand over all their power and authority to.

There is an Antichrist beast that is still coming, and probably is nearly here. I advise you take your blindfolds off now if you do not believe it, for your own and your family's sake. It really does not matter whether or not he is the one who was described by Daniel as the little horn who rose up from among the 10. He is the antitype of that little horn, and he is coming. Right now his minions are attacking the one little country in the Middle East that is not under the control of Islam - the very same people who always resisted forced assimilation into Middle Eastern empires and their religious cultures - which included the Greek Empire and kingdoms.