The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

[brightfame52]

Christ died for our sins according to scripture !

Now one of the ways Christ died for our sins according to scripture besides as it fulfilled prophecy of scripture, it also was according to the types and shadows of scripture. One of those ways it[His death] for His People was typified under the Old Covenant was that by the Aaronic Priesthood. If you recall Aaron was the High Priest for the Sins of the Covenant People Israel ! Well likewise Christ was and is the High Priest of His People, not only from amongst the jews, but also from among the Gentiles/Nations, Heb 2:17

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Thats why all Nations of people were made by His Death a Kingdom of Priests as His Offspring Rev 5:9-10

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

The people here and in Heb 2:17 are not all Humanity, but an Elect People, the Children of Israel ; Now for example lets look at Ex 28:29-30

29 And Aaron[The High Priest] shall bear the names of the children of Israel in the breastplate of judgment upon his heart, when he goeth in unto the holy place, for a memorial before the Lord continually.

30 And thou shalt put in the breastplate of judgment the Urim and the Thummim; and they shall be upon Aaron's heart, when he goeth in before the Lord: and Aaron shall bear the judgment of the children of Israel upon his heart before the Lord continually.


Now Cp Heb 9:24-25

24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;

Hence the Offering in the prescence of the Lord as High Priest was specifically for the Children of Israel ! Aarom on the Day of Atonement as High Priest would confess the sins of the Children of Israel for the scapgoat to bear away Lev 16:20-22

20 And when he hath made an end of reconciling the holy place, and the tabernacle of the congregation, and the altar, he shall bring the live goat:

21 And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:

22 And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited: and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness.

Thats what Jn 1:29 had in mind, the taking away the sin of the world by the Lamb of God !

The words taketh away are the greek word airō:


I.to raise up, elevate, lift up

A.to raise from the ground, take up: stones


B.to raise upwards, elevate, lift up: the hand


C.to draw up: a fish



II.to take upon one's self and carry what has been raised up, to bear


III.to bear away what has been raised, carry off

Thats what the scapegoat did with the sins of Israel, which was the OT Church Acts 7:38

This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

 

[brightfame52]

None of the verses you quote speak to the question. Have you ever read this passage?

Romans 5:6-11

For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die. But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

Points to consider:
Christ died for us while we were still helpless
Christ died for the ungodly
Christ died for sinners, while they were yet sinners
We were reconciled while we were enemies
We shall be saved by his life.

For this reason, the New Testament says that Christ died for the whole world. The scriptures you quoted speak to the part I highlighted in bold. The world isn't saved by his death because no one is saved by his death. Those whom God is saving are saved by his life. This is a very important distinction don't you think?

So do you understand that Christ could not have died for people under Gods wrath ?

 

[CadyandZoe]

Wouldn’t it be a mistake and dangerous even, to say that no one is saved by Christ’s death? It gives the wrong impression that Christ’s death is unnecessary in God’s salvation work of mankind. It is a double mistake to separate Christ’s death from His life, and put a distinction such as making His death as to not save anyone and His life as that which saves.

In Romans 5:10, we read “we shall be saved by His life”. May I ask, what do you take of the life of Christ there as referring to?

Tong
R4431

Finally we are getting to the heart of the matter. Was the death of Christ unnecessary? As I wrote before, necessity is relative to the lack. For example, one might ask, "Is water necessary for our survival?" The answer is yes, because without water we would die. One might ask, "Did Jesus need to die? Was it necessary? The answer is yes and no. I can't seem to say this enough, our sins were forgiven. As such they didn't need to be punished. If God forgave our sins, and he did, then it was NOT necessary for Jesus to die in order to suffer in our stead.

Paul argues that the death of Christ was necessary for our reconciliation. Only after we have been reconciled through his death, will God account our faith as justifiedness.

In Romans 5:10, Paul is talking about the indestructible life of Christ. Jesus needs to be alive when the time comes to raise his followers from the dead. Christians often take this for granted but the ascension is critical to our salvation. We will be saved, i.e. delivered from physical death in the coming years because Jesus is alive NOW to make intercession for us THEN.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Since you wrote "Christ died for the whole world" which appears to be a reference to 1 John 2:2, then here is a question for you:

@CadyandZoe, do you believe that you, right now, are a part of "the whole world" as it is written in "the whole world lies in the evil one" (1 John 5:19)?

In that context, no. John is drawing a contrast between those whom God protects and those outside of his protection. It that context, "the world" represents the "established order" e.g. social, political, religious authorities that fall under the influence of the evil one, as opposed to John and the other apostles.

 

[CadyandZoe]

So do you understand that Christ could not have died for people under Gods wrath ?

Why not? That is what Paul argues. I don't have a problem with it.

 

[Tong2020]

Finally we are getting to the heart of the matter. Was the death of Christ unnecessary? As I wrote before, necessity is relative to the lack. For example, one might ask, "Is water necessary for our survival?" The answer is yes, because without water we would die. One might ask, "Did Jesus need to die? Was it necessary? The answer is yes and no. I can't seem to say this enough, our sins were forgiven. As such they didn't need to be punished. If God forgave our sins, and he did, then it was NOT necessary for Jesus to die in order to suffer in our stead.

Paul argues that the death of Christ was necessary for our reconciliation. Only after we have been reconciled through his death, will God account our faith as justifiedness.

In Romans 5:10, Paul is talking about the indestructible life of Christ. Jesus needs to be alive when the time comes to raise his followers from the dead. Christians often take this for granted but the ascension is critical to our salvation. We will be saved, i.e. delivered from physical death in the coming years because Jesus is alive NOW to make intercession for us THEN.

<<<One might ask, "Did Jesus need to die? Was it necessary? The answer is yes and no.>>>

It could not be both. It’s either necessary or is not. And we are talking about God’s work of salvation.

<<<I can't seem to say this enough, our sins were forgiven. As such they didn't need to be punished. If God forgave our sins, and he did, then it was NOT necessary for Jesus to die in order to suffer in our stead.>>>

And that would be to narrow down the salvation of God to the forgiveness of sins. Salvation is more than sins forgiven.

<<<In Romans 5:10, Paul is talking about the indestructible life of Christ.>>>

My question was “In Romans 5:10, we read “we shall be saved by His life”. May I ask, what do you take of the life of Christ there as referring to?”

Here it seems many make the mistake. Paul is not talking about the indestructible life of Christ Jesus. Not to say that His life isn’t indestructible. For so it is, for He is God no less. But taken in context, it specifically refers to Christ’s resurrection.

Tong
R4448

 

[brightfame52]

Christ died for our sins according to scripture !2

And so as the Great High Priest of the New Covenant, He representatively gave Himself for the sins of the New Covenant Israel, The Church Eph 5:25,2

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling savour.

Eph 5:2 is referring to the Church in Vs 25, yet He gave Himself as an Sacrifice, an Offering, is language looking back to the OT Economy of the Church; Hence the Our Sins of 1 Cor 15:3 according to scripture is the Israel of God, a Chosen Elect People, which was Typified by the OC Israel, which in any case, this rule of scripture does forbid that Christ's Death was for all mankind in general, just as the Aaronic Priesthood on the Day of Atonement was not for all mankind in the general !

 

[brightfame52]

Why not? That is what Paul argues. I don't have a problem with it.

Why not ? Well in case you didnt know, the ones Christ died for, His Death propitiated God on their behalf. Do you know what propitiation mean ? 1 Jn 2:2

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Take time a study propitiation !

 

[Tong2020]

Why not ? Well in case you didnt know, the ones Christ died for, His Death propitiated God on their behalf. Do you know what propitiation mean ? 1 Jn 2:2

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Take time a study propitiation !

Tell us what is propitiation for you.

Thanks.

Tong
R4454

 

[brightfame52]

Because He didnt make all without exception righteous !

One of the biblical reasons we know that Christ could not have and did not die for all men without exception, its because all men without exception shall not be declared /made Righteous as Per Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Now who is foolish and unlearned enough to state all without exception shall be made Righteous when scripture tells us of the exclusion of the unrighteous 1 Cor 6:9

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Certainly these unrighteous ones are not of those Christ's obedience shall make Righteous !

The unrighteous :

describes those being found guilty in God's court of law, i.e. as a binding, legal infraction against His law which calls for divine retribution for disrespecting true justice.

That simply cannot apply to any for whom Christ died and satisfied God's Law and Justice in their behalf !

 

[brightfame52]

Tell us what is propitiation for you.

Thanks.

Tong
R4454

See that shows you dont pay attention to my posts, I already did that a couple of times.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Why not ? Well in case you didnt know, the ones Christ died for, His Death propitiated God on their behalf. Do you know what propitiation mean ? 1 Jn 2:2

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Take time a study propitiation !

In order to understand the verse you quoted, one must consider the meaning of the verse from with in the few paragraphs that came before. The main topic is fellowship with God, and by "fellowship" here he means agreement, concord, harmony, and perhaps amity. John asks his readers to ask of themselves, "am I in agreement with God?" If the answer is 'yes' then I agree to particular set of facts concerning myself and my relationship to God.

For instance, according to John, those who have no fellowship with God claim to have no sin. A man might argue, "Jesus may have died for the sins of some, but I have no sins to be forgiven."

Another man might agree that Jesus died for his past sins, but what about any future sins I might commit? John asserts, not only did Jesus die for our sins, he died for ALL our sins.

John also asserts that the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin. At the same time, a man who walks the light and has concord with God, he agrees with God that he has sin within him. He confesses his sin knowing that God is faithful to forgive him of his sins and cleanse him from all unrighteousness.

If a man claims to have no sin, he walks in darkness. If a man claims to have sin, he is walking in the light, knowing that God is faithful to cleanse him of sin. Nonetheless, John has not written to his "children" in order to suggest that sinning is acceptable. He writes so they will not sin. For this reason, John gives his readers a good reason to avoid sin.

When God forgives all of a man's sins, one might wonder whether God has removed all incentive to avoid sin. After all, human beings are trained to avoid bad consequences, which leads some people to avoid certain sins which automatically come with negative outcomes. But what about sins that have no apparent negative outcomes? Apart from the threat of punishment, which God has removed, what motivates those who walk in the light to avoid sin?

John gives his readers the answer. 1 John 2:2 "and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world." The very person who remains our advocate before the father, was the one who died on the cross. Take a minute to allow the word of John to have its full impact.

Christian apologists often quote this verse when attempting to preach the good news. The idea that Jesus' blood cleanses us from all sin, removing our guilt, and bringing us salvation truly is good news. And what I am about to say next should not be understood as disagreement on that point.

But John didn't write that verse so that apologists, for the next two thousand years, might take it out of context to be used in an argument for conversion. Rather, John is making an argument for why those who walk in the light should avoid sin even though the penalty for sin has been removed. What is the singular, most salient idea that John wants us to remember as we walk in the light?

Those who walk in the light know that an innocent man was put to death so that we might live. Those who walk in the light know that an innocent man, our hero, was put up on a cross so that we might be freed from sin forever. An innocent man was put to death so that by kneeling at the cross, confessing that it should have been us instead of him, the penalty of sin has been removed. It follows then, that those who are walking in the light, are motivated to avoid sin because they are seeking to be free of it.

Those who walk in the darkness avoid sin in order to avoid punishment. It isn't as if they want to be free of it. They would sin if they could get away with it. But those who are walking in the light have another motive to avoid sin; they have come out of slavery and never want to return.

Notice the contrast here. John is not suggesting that the act of propitiation is restricted to the sins of those who are walking in the light. On the contrary, he tells us that the act of propitiation concerned the sins of the entire world. John sets up a contrast between those who walk in the light and those who walk in darkness. The propitiation expressed God's position concerning every sin that has ever been committed. "not only for our sins, but for those of the whole world."

 

[CadyandZoe]

It could not be both. It’s either necessary or is not. And we are talking about God’s work of salvation.

Right, and I am attempting to disabuse you and the others from the idea that the effect of the cross was justice, when the effect of the cross was actually mercy. It was not necessary to satisfy justice; it was necessary for reconciliation with God. He wasn't asking for restitution, reparations, or any form of requital.

According to David, God is not interested in sacrifice or he would give it. God is interested, he says, "in a broken spirit and a contrite heart." Psalms 51:17 Did David continue to offer sacrifices according to the Law? Yes. Nonetheless, The Father is teaching us to renew our thinking and consider that unless the animal sacrifice represents a righteous sentiment, expressed by a broken and contrite heart, God will not accept it.

Remember, the "dikaiosune" of God is being manifested apart from the Law. (not a matter of justice) Romans 3:21. Instead, the "dikaiosune" of God is being manifested through a public demonstration, which must be understood, accepted and believed. (a matter of reconciliation) Romans 3:25-26 Jesus became the ultimate and final sacrifice, once-for-all, which also gives expression to righteous attitudes. And once again, the same condition applies. The sacrifice of Jesus only applies to those who have a broken and contrite heart and accept the meaning and implications of God's public demonstration.

And that would be to narrow down the salvation of God to the forgiveness of sins. Salvation is more than sins forgiven.

Exactly my point. And if we agree that salvation is much more than the forgiveness of sins, then can we conclude that the salvation of the elect is an argument against universal atonement? I don't think so. Universal expiation of sins is just that and nothing more than that.

My question was “In Romans 5:10, we read “we shall be saved by His life”. May I ask, what do you take of the life of Christ there as referring to?”

That was my answer. I apologize for not being better at communication. Paul is talking about the fact of Jesus' resurrection, his being alive, if you will. I'll explain below.

Here it seems many make the mistake. Paul is not talking about the indestructible life of Christ Jesus. Not to say that His life isn’t indestructible. For so it is, for He is God no less. But taken in context, it specifically refers to Christ’s resurrection.

Tong
R4448

Well, you see, what you have there is a contraction. First point: Paul is talking about the resurrection of Jesus. Second Point: Jesus has an indestructible life. If Jesus had an indestructible life when he walked the earth the first time, then how was it possible for him to die? (I assume you affirm that Jesus actually died.) In order to avoid this contradiction, one must accept the fact that Jesus didn't have indestructability prior to his crucifixion. Jesus has an indestructible life now, not because he is God, but because he was resurrected.

Paul's point is focused on the complete nature of salvation. I can claim to be saved all day, but when I die and they lay me in the grave, my claim is empty unless someone should raise me from the dead at some time in the future. When that day comes, Jesus will call me out of the grave (Lord willing) because he is alive and living at that time. If Jesus died and stayed dead, there would be no one to raise me, but since Jesus rose from the dead, he is able to raise those whom he wishes.

 

[CadyandZoe]

That simply cannot apply to any for whom Christ died and satisfied God's Law and Justice in their behalf !

True, but that is not the purpose or meaning of the cross. The Bible does NOT teach that the cross satisfies God's Law and Justice. Paul tells you that God, was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself. 2 Corinthians 5:18

 

[brightfame52]

In order to understand the verse you quoted, one must consider the meaning of the verse from with in the few paragraphs that came before. The main topic is fellowship with God, and by "fellowship" here he means agreement, concord, harmony, and perhaps amity. John asks his readers to ask of themselves, "am I in agreement with God?" If the answer is 'yes' then I agree to particular set of facts concerning myself and my relationship to God.

For instance, according to John, those who have no fellowship with God claim to have no sin. A man might argue, "Jesus may have died for the sins of some, but I have no sins to be forgiven."

Another man might agree that Jesus died for his past sins, but what about any future sins I might commit? John asserts, not only did Jesus die for our sins, he died for ALL our sins.

John also asserts that the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin. At the same time, a man who walks the light and has concord with God, he agrees with God that he has sin within him. He confesses his sin knowing that God is faithful to forgive him of his sins and cleanse him from all unrighteousness.

If a man claims to have no sin, he walks in darkness. If a man claims to have sin, he is walking in the light, knowing that God is faithful to cleanse him of sin. Nonetheless, John has not written to his "children" in order to suggest that sinning is acceptable. He writes so they will not sin. For this reason, John gives his readers a good reason to avoid sin.

When God forgives all of a man's sins, one might wonder whether God has removed all incentive to avoid sin. After all, human beings are trained to avoid bad consequences, which leads some people to avoid certain sins which automatically come with negative outcomes. But what about sins that have no apparent negative outcomes? Apart from the threat of punishment, which God has removed, what motivates those who walk in the light to avoid sin?

John gives his readers the answer. 1 John 2:2 "and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world." The very person who remains our advocate before the father, was the one who died on the cross. Take a minute to allow the word of John to have its full impact.

Christian apologists often quote this verse when attempting to preach the good news. The idea that Jesus' blood cleanses us from all sin, removing our guilt, and bringing us salvation truly is good news. And what I am about to say next should not be understood as disagreement on that point.

But John didn't write that verse so that apologists, for the next two thousand years, might take it out of context to be used in an argument for conversion. Rather, John is making an argument for why those who walk in the light should avoid sin even though the penalty for sin has been removed. What is the singular, most salient idea that John wants us to remember as we walk in the light?

Those who walk in the light know that an innocent man was put to death so that we might live. Those who walk in the light know that an innocent man, our hero, was put up on a cross so that we might be freed from sin forever. An innocent man was put to death so that by kneeling at the cross, confessing that it should have been us instead of him, the penalty of sin has been removed. It follows then, that those who are walking in the light, are motivated to avoid sin because they are seeking to be free of it.

Those who walk in the darkness avoid sin in order to avoid punishment. It isn't as if they want to be free of it. They would sin if they could get away with it. But those who are walking in the light have another motive to avoid sin; they have come out of slavery and never want to return.

Notice the contrast here. John is not suggesting that the act of propitiation is restricted to the sins of those who are walking in the light. On the contrary, he tells us that the act of propitiation concerned the sins of the entire world. John sets up a contrast between those who walk in the light and those who walk in darkness. The propitiation expressed God's position concerning every sin that has ever been committed. "not only for our sins, but for those of the whole world."

Have you studied propitiation as i asked ?

 

[brightfame52]

True, but that is not the purpose or meaning of the cross. The Bible does NOT teach that the cross satisfies God's Law and Justice. Paul tells you that God, was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself. 2 Corinthians 5:18

I dont know what scripture you been reading, and who has deceived you.

 

[Tong2020]

See that shows you dont pay attention to my posts, I already did that a couple of times.

I was asking because it seems to me that you take “propitiation” as though it is something done that result to salvation unto eternal life, which is not. And that influences one’s reading of scriptures.

While the death of Christ is “propitiation” which is salvific, as it attains the mercy of God pertaining His wrath upon the wickedness of man, all men that is, it is not unto eternal life. Mercy, as a blessing, that is an act of divine favor or compassion towards all of mankind. In this sense, God had reconciled the whole world to Himself, through the death of His Son Jesus Christ, without which, He could have just destroyed all mankind as He had done in the past.

Now that is salvation, but not salvation unto eternal life.

Tong
R4466

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
It could not be both. It’s either necessary or is not. And we are talking about God’s work of salvation.

Right, and I am attempting to disabuse you and the others from the idea that the effect of the cross was justice, when the effect of the cross was actually mercy. It was not necessary to satisfy justice; it was necessary for reconciliation with God. He wasn't asking for restitution, reparations, or any form of requital.

According to David, God is not interested in sacrifice or he would give it. God is interested, he says, "in a broken spirit and a contrite heart." Psalms 51:17 Did David continue to offer sacrifices according to the Law? Yes. Nonetheless, The Father is teaching us to renew our thinking and consider that unless the animal sacrifice represents a righteous sentiment, expressed by a broken and contrite heart, God will not accept it.

Remember, the "dikaiosune" of God is being manifested apart from the Law. (not a matter of justice) Romans 3:21. Instead, the "dikaiosune" of God is being manifested through a public demonstration, which must be understood, accepted and believed. (a matter of reconciliation) Romans 3:25-26 Jesus became the ultimate and final sacrifice, once-for-all, which also gives expression to righteous attitudes. And once again, the same condition applies. The sacrifice of Jesus only applies to those who have a broken and contrite heart and accept the meaning and implications of God's public demonstration.

<<<It was not necessary to satisfy justice; it was necessary for reconciliation with God.>>>

As I pointed out, it is either necessary or it is not. It could not be both. And if it is necessary for reconciliation, then Christ’s sacrificial death is necessary in the salvation work of God. For reconciliation is the beginning of God’s salvation.

Is it necessary to satisfy justice? Yes it is. For Christ came to fulfill the Law, not to destroy the Law.

And that would be to narrow down the salvation of God to the forgiveness of sins. Salvation is more than sins forgiven.

Exactly my point. And if we agree that salvation is much more than the forgiveness of sins, then can we conclude that the salvation of the elect is an argument against universal atonement? I don't think so. Universal expiation of sins is just that and nothing more than that.

What is important at this point is we both see and agree that salvation is more the forgiveness of sins.

My question was “In Romans 5:10, we read “we shall be saved by His life”. May I ask, what do you take of the life of Christ there as referring to?”

That was my answer. I apologize for not being better at communication. Paul is talking about the fact of Jesus' resurrection, his being alive, if you will. I'll explain below.

No apologies need.

Here it seems many make the mistake. Paul is not talking about the indestructible life of Christ Jesus. Not to say that His life isn’t indestructible. For so it is, for He is God no less. But taken in context, it specifically refers to Christ’s resurrection.

Well, you see, what you have there is a contraction. First point: Paul is talking about the resurrection of Jesus. Second Point: Jesus has an indestructible life. If Jesus had an indestructible life when he walked the earth the first time, then how was it possible for him to die? (I assume you affirm that Jesus actually died.) In order to avoid this contradiction, one must accept the fact that Jesus didn't have indestructability prior to his crucifixion. Jesus has an indestructible life now, not because he is God, but because he was resurrected.

Paul's point is focused on the complete nature of salvation. I can claim to be saved all day, but when I die and they lay me in the grave, my claim is empty unless someone should raise me from the dead at some time in the future. When that day comes, Jesus will call me out of the grave (Lord willing) because he is alive and living at that time. If Jesus died and stayed dead, there would be no one to raise me, but since Jesus rose from the dead, he is able to raise those whom he wishes.

<<<If Jesus had an indestructible life when he walked the earth the first time, then how was it possible for him to die? (I assume you affirm that Jesus actually died.)>>>

We both believe that Jesus is human, like us. So, if humans could die, so does he. But we also know that He is God, and have eternal indestructible life.

<<<In order to avoid this contradiction, one must accept the fact that Jesus didn't have indestructability prior to his crucifixion. >>>

There is no contraction to avoid, at least for me. For Jesus is both human and divine.

I don’t see the death of Christ as a form of the destruction of His life. And that is the point of His resurrection. His resurrection demonstrated eternal life, the life of Him. What Christ actually accomplished in His resurrection is triumphing over the power of death. He had conquered death. He had demonstrated His power, the power of God. He had declared through it, who He is, that He is the Son of God!

By His death, He had shown is His humanity. By His resurrection, He had shown us His deity. His resurrection, if I may say, is the crowning glory of the salvation work of God. And it is just sad, at least as I know and see it, that this had not been given much attention by the Christian world. Though I would like to believe that many does, though perhaps just do not teach and share it as it ought to be.

We should talk about the resurrection of Jesus Christ as often as we talk about His death, would you agree?

Tong
R4467

 

[Tong2020]

True, but that is not the purpose or meaning of the cross. The Bible does NOT teach that the cross satisfies God's Law and Justice. Paul tells you that God, was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself. 2 Corinthians 5:18

I respectfully differ. I see the cross, among many that it accomplished, as the very substance and reality that is behind the various sacrifices required in the Law, which are shadows of it.

Tong
R4468

 

[brightfame52]

Because He didn't make all without exception righteous !

That simply cannot apply to any for whom Christ died and satisfied God's Law and Justice in their behalf !

You see, the very fact that Christ died for one, automatically makes them Righteous, because His Death was His Obedience that shall make them Righteous Rom 5:19 ! Not His Resurrection, His Resurrection did not pay satisfaction to God's Law and Justice, no,but His obedient life under the law and His substitutionary death did, and His Resurrection was proof, evidence that His Obedience unto death makes them He died for Righteous Rom 5:19 !

Also the non imputation of sin makes them Righteous, which is necessitated if Christ is to die for our sins, because they must be imputed to Him in order for Him to die for them, which means they cannot be imputed to the ones He is dying for !

So, non imputation of sin applies to everyone He died for, which non imputation makes them Righteous by having Righteousness imputed to them in turn for them not having sin imputed to them, proof here Rom 4:6-8

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

So Vs 6 the blessedness of imputed righteousness without works, is the fruit of being of those Vs 8 whom the Lord will not impute sin !

And the reason why God will not impute sin unto them, is because the sin of theirs has been imputed to Christ, for Him to die for !

So this equates to all for whom He died, being made Righteous by Righteousness being Imputed to them without works Rom 4:6 which compliments Rom 5:19 being made Righteous by the Obedience of One !