The mark of the Man/beast

[Ronald Nolette]

So why do you still sin?

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

If you are truly in Christ, and Christ (the seed) is truly in you, then you CANNOT SIN.

YOU have lots to learn. Remember this:

Your brothers and sisters here are rooting for you, so when you finally realize you still commit sin, we will be here to pick you up and teach you all about gods mercy and grace and forgiveness. As the Psalmist wrote- The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases. His mercies never come to an end. they are renewed every morning, Great is His faithfulness. this is not a license to sin, but to learn to grow and live more and more in holiness.

I do empathize and pity you. YOu have been led to believe that since teh moment you were born again, you ceased from sinning in every area of your life!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

YOU have lots to learn. Remember this:

Your brothers and sisters here are rooting for you, so when you finally realize you still commit sin, we will be here to pick you up and teach you all about gods mercy and grace and forgiveness. As the Psalmist wrote- The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases. His mercies never come to an end. they are renewed every morning, Great is His faithfulness. this is not a license to sin, but to learn to grow and live more and more in holiness.

I do empathize and pity you. YOu have been led to believe that since teh moment you were born again, you ceased from sinning in every area of your life!

Yes, it's sad to see. Imagine the pressure he has put himself under to be perfect. It's all so unnecessary. There's no room for salvation by grace through faith in his doctrine. He has not experienced the freedom we have in Christ. Not the freedom to just sin all we want, of course, but the freedom to know that if we do sin, even though we don't want to, and we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us (1 John 1:9).

It's similar to what Paul said about the foolish Galatians who put themselves under the curse of the law of Moses because, as Paul said there, "Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith." (Galatians 3:10-11). Paul was condemning their legalism and them thinking that they could be saved by their own righteousness by way of following the law of Moses even though breaking even one of the commandments makes someone guilty of breaking them all (James 2:10). It's an impossible standard to live up to to be sinless for everyone but Jesus, yet this guy thinks he has done it and can continue to do it. What does he need Jesus for if he can be sinless? He has deceived himself, as John said about people like him (1 John 1:8).

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

I do empathize and pity you. YOu have been led to believe that since teh moment you were born again, you ceased from sinning in every area of your life!

I pity you and others that have been led to believe that Christ is unable to make free from sin by the power of the Holy Spirit.

You speak of what you know, and I speak of what I know.

1 John 5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I pity you and others that have been led to believe that Christ is unable to make free from sin by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Christ has made us free from the wages of sin, which is the second death (Romans 6:23, Rev 20:15). You have no understanding of that. You put yourself under the curse of the law with your false salvation by your own works and righteousness doctrine (Gal 3:10-11).

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

John 8:36
If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Romans 6:18
Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Romans 6:22
But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

John 8:36
If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Romans 6:18
Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Romans 6:22
But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

You quote Romans 6:22, but have no understanding of Romans 6:23. We have been made free from the wages of sin, which is eternal death (the second death) in contrast to the gift of God, which is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

The gift of God cannot be earned, but you think you have to earn it by being sinless. You believe in salvation by works, but Paul taught this:

Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

The gift of God is salvation and eternal life. It is obtained by God's grace through faith in Christ and not through your own works and righteousness (your own sinlessness) as you falsely believe.

It appears that Ephesians 2:8-10 and 1 John 1:8-10 are missing from your Bible.

1 John 1:8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Be not deceived sinners shall not inherit the Kingdom of God!

1 Corinthians 6:9-10

King James Version

​

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Ephesians 5:5
For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the Kingdom of Christ and of God.

Galatians 5:19-21

King James Version

​

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Someone is too cowardly to talk to me directly even though he is responding to me. Good luck with inheriting the kingdom of God by your own self-righteousness, which is as filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6). You have deceived yourself. Please try to locate these verses in your Bible since they seem to have gone missing:

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Some people try to slander and intentionally misrepresent the words of God and the words of His saints because they are unable to bridle their tongue.

James 1:26
If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Some people try to slander and intentionally misrepresent the words of God and the words of His saints because they are unable to bridle their tongue.

James 1:26
If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

Still too afraid to talk to me directly, eh? You believe you don't sin and I'm showing you what it says about people like you. Stop deceiving yourself.

But, if you think I'm misrepresenting the following words of God, then you can show how these words should be interpreted.

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Still too afraid to talk to me directly, eh?

I’m not afraid to talk, it’s just that you do not know how to react.

Stop deceiving yourself.

That’s the problem, you can’t put a bridle on it.

But, if you think I'm misrepresenting the following words of God, then you can show how these words should be interpreted.

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

John is not saying that we keep on sinning AFTER we are born again of the Holy Spirit because that would contradict what John says below…

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

So what is John saying in 1 John 1:8? John is saying the same thing that Paul said “that all have sinned”. Back in those days and even still today many people did not believe in God and in the words of God. So they didn’t even believe in sin, because they didn’t even know the law that gives us the knowledge of sin.

So the first thing the apostles needed to do was to convince every man that they were all sinners needing salvation. Both John and Paul never suggested that once born again we are to keep on sinning.

It is true we are not saved by our own works, but when we are saved by grace we will do righteous works because when we are born again of the Spirit we are made righteous. And if you are truly made a righteous tree you will bring forth righteous fruit.

You will know a tree by its fruit. If you sin then you are not a righteous tree.
Luke 6:43
For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

 

[IndianaRob]

I’m not afraid to talk, it’s just that you do not know how to react.

That’s the problem, you can’t put a bridle on it.

John is not saying that we keep on sinning AFTER we are born again of the Holy Spirit because that would contradict what John says below…

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

So what is John saying in 1 John 1:8? John is saying the same thing that Paul said “that all have sinned”. Back in those days and even still today many people did not believe in God and in the words of God. So they didn’t even believe in sin, because they didn’t even know the law that gives us the knowledge of sin.

So the first thing the apostles needed to do was to convince every man that they were all sinners needing salvation. Both John and Paul never suggested that once born again we are to keep on sinning.

It is true we are not saved by our own works, but when we are saved by grace we will do righteous works because when we are born again of the Spirit we are made righteous. And if you are truly made a righteous tree you will bring forth righteous fruit.

You will know a tree by its fruit. If you sin then you are not a righteous tree.
Luke 6:43
For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

That which is born of God is the “new man”, he can not sin because the new man is not under the law. The old man however will still continue to be the old man and keep sinning.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I’m not afraid to talk, it’s just that you do not know how to react.

Well, look at that. He is indeed reading my posts. All I want is for you to be wiling to take part in an honest discussion and to be able to handle disagreement without getting all offended and running away. I don't think that's too much to ask.

That’s the problem, you can’t put a bridle on it.

You are here making post after post telling others how wrong they are and how right you are. I'm telling you how wrong you are. I guess you don't like your own medicine?

John is not saying that we keep on sinning AFTER we are born again of the Holy Spirit because that would contradict what John says below…

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Has it occurred to you that you are taking that too literally? Where can grace be found in your doctrine?

So what is John saying in 1 John 1:8? John is saying the same thing that Paul said “that all have sinned”. Back in those days and even still today many people did not believe in God and in the words of God. So they didn’t even believe in sin, because they didn’t even know the law that gives us the knowledge of sin.

No, he's not saying that. John is included himself in everything he wrote in 1 John 1:8-10. That's why he said "we", "our" and "us". He's talking about claiming to not sin even after you've been saved. Your claim that you haven't sinned since being saved and that you never sin means you are deceiving yourself. You have deceived yourself into contradicting what scripture says which is that we are saved by grace through faith and not by our own righteous works. Your righteousness is as filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6). Do you understand that? Why do you think your own righteousness is necessary for salvation when scripture never teaches such a thing? There's no grace in believing that you are saved by being sinless. That's salvation by works and Paul made it clear that we are not saved by works, but rather by grace through faith.

So the first thing the apostles needed to do was to convince every man that they were all sinners needing salvation. Both John and Paul never suggested that once born again we are to keep on sinning.

I am not saying that we have a license to sin all we want after we're saved. No, of course not. But, I'm saying God's grace doesn't end once we become saved. It takes time to grow in your faith and mature and become more Christ-like. You somehow think we have to immediately become perfect and sinless upon conversion, but that's not how it works. If you can only be a Christian if you become sinless, then what do you make of this:

1 Corinthians 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. 3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

Notice here that Paul rebuked these immature Christians for their "envying, and strife, and divisions", yet still called them "babes in Christ". He still considered them to be Christians despite their spiritually immature behavior. How does your doctrine line up with this? It takes time to mature in the faith. Time that your doctrine doesn't seem to allow.

It is true we are not saved by our own works, but when we are saved by grace we will do righteous works because when we are born again of the Spirit we are made righteous. And if you are truly made a righteous tree you will bring forth righteous fruit.

Yes, absolutely. But, where does it say that if we don't do that perfectly at all times then we are condemned? I missed that part. It's not there. You can't think that we saved by grace and then once we're saved, we're no longer saved by grace but saved by our own righteousness/sinlessness. That makes no sense, but seems to be what you believe.

You will know a tree by its fruit. If you sin then you are not a righteous tree.
Luke 6:43
For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

You are being way too literal here. It's talking about willful sin here. Do you understand that there's a difference between willful sin (Hebrews 10:26-27) and unwillful sin (Romans 7:14-25)? There is. Hebrews 10:26-27 talks about how willful sin, which is sin committed in purposely and willful rebellion against God will result in judgment. But, is all sin willful sin? Of course not. Paul made it clear that it's possible to sin even when you don't want to. The solution to that is to submit to the Holy Spirit so that He will help us overcome temptation and the desires of the flesh. But, nowhere does it teach that if we don't do that perfectly at all times then we will be condemned, as you seem to believe. Again, your doctrine doesn't allow for the ones that Paul called "babes in Christ" to be Christians, so it seems Paul had a much different understanding of salvation than you do.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Well, look at that. He is indeed reading my posts. All I want is for you to be wiling to take part in an honest discussion and to be able to handle disagreement without getting all offended and running away. I don't think that's too much to ask.

I don’t think it is to much to ask that you stop trying to misrepresent what it is I am saying.

You are here making post after post telling others how wrong they are and how right you are. I'm telling you how wrong you are. I guess you don't like your own medicine?

I don’t care if people think I’m wrong, because I know I am right.

Where can grace be found in your doctrine?

We are saved by grace, but the grace of God is not a license to sin.
Romans 6:1
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid!

Romans 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion overyou: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Romans 6:15
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

No, he's not saying that. John is included himself in everything he wrote in 1 John 1:8-10. That's why he said "we", "our" and "us". He's talking about claiming to not sin even after you've been saved.

That would contradict what John said about those who are born of God who cannot sin. There is no contradiction in the gospel message.

Your claim that you haven't sinned since being saved and that you never sin means you are deceiving yourself.

Where did I say that? Please provide the quote.

You have deceived yourself into contradicting what scripture says which is that we are saved by grace through faith and not by our own righteous works.

I never said we are saved by our own righteous works. Please provide the quote where I said that. That is the misrepresentation of others beliefs I was talking about

Why do you think your own righteousness is necessary for salvation when scripture never teaches such a thing?

It is not my own righteousness it is Christs righteousness that works in me that has made me righteous so that I can DO righteousness.

There's no grace in believing that you are saved by being sinless.

By the grace of God we are made free from the power of sin in our lives. Being made free from sin is PROOF that we are saved by Grace.

That's salvation by works and Paul made it clear that we are not saved by works, but rather by grace through faith.

Again we are not saved by our own works, but we are saved so that we can then DO righteous works.

1 Corinthians 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. 3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

Notice here that Paul rebuked these immature Christians for their "envying, and strife, and divisions", yet still called them "babes in Christ". He still considered them to be Christians despite their spiritually immature behavior. How does your doctrine line up with this? It takes time to mature in the faith. Time that your doctrine doesn't seem to allow.

Notice Paul called them “carnal” that means they were still in “the flesh”and were not yet born again of the Spirit.

Yes, absolutely. But, where does it say that if we don't do that perfectly at all times then we are condemned? I missed that part. It's not there. You can't think that we saved by grace and then once we're saved, we're no longer saved by grace but saved by our own righteousness/sinlessness. That makes no sense, but seems to be what you believe.

But people can fall away from the faith back to a life of unrepentant sin despite the Spirit of grace.
“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Do you understand that there's a difference between willful sin

Sure, the sin of ignorance can be forgiven if one repents.

Again, your doctrine doesn't allow for the ones that Paul called "babes in Christ" to be Christians, so it seems Paul had a much different understanding of salvation than you do.

No, I understand there is a growth process. And I understand there is a process of dying daily to sin. But one needs to be aware that sin needs to put to death in you or else one can be in danger of dying in their sins. That is why Jesus likened the removal of sin in our lives to the removal of evil body parts. If sin is not removed then you will be in danger of hell fire.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

In order to understand the 2 different marks you must understand these 2 different natures and what they detail. First let’s look at these 2 different positions.

Romans 5:19
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

The first position is in Adam, where many are made sinners. And if they are made sinners they will do sinful works. This means they are of the world and they are “carnal” being born of the “flesh” and having the “sin nature”of the Devil. This means they are in darkness and are of the evil seed being an evil tree. Those who are still in Adam are marked by sin. This Adam position I will refer to as group A.

The other position we see in Romans 5:19 is in Christ where many shall be made righteous. And if one is made righteous they will also do righteous works. This group is no longer of the world because they have been born again of the Spirit. This group is no longer in the flesh but are in the Spirit, having the Divine nature of Christ. This means they are no longer in the darkness but are now in the Light of Christ. This group are of the good seed and are the good trees. This group are marked by righteousness being made righteous by Christ. This position I will refer to as group C.

Those who are still in position A will try to perform the works of those who are in position C but they cannot because they are still in position A. There is an “enmity” between those in position A against those in position C because of this.

Paul spoke of this enmity and struggle of those in position A trying to do the good works of those in position C in Romans 7.
The reason those in position A could not do the good works of those in position C is because they were still in position A.

But Jesus came to remove that enmity in man, and remove mankind from position A to position C by spiritual rebirth. So those who are truly born again of the Holy Spirit have passed from position A to position C.

Those who are in position C knows what it is like to be in position A. But those in position A do not know what it is like to be in position C. Those in position C try to describe what it is like to be in position C to those who are in position A, but those in position A do not believe them because all position A knows is position A.

The false teachers in position A read about what it is like to be in position C, but they are unable to perform the good works of those in position C. So the false teachers try to blur the lines between the dark position of A from between the Light position of C.

In trying to justify their own position in A they have tried to create a gray area of B between Position A and C.

But there is no gray area, or lukewarm area by which you can be saved. You are either in the A position or in the C position.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I don’t think it is to much to ask that you stop trying to misrepresent what it is I am saying.

I honestly am not trying to do that. Try to remember that you are not the Judge. Is it not your belief that we must not ever sin in order to maintain our salvation? You certainly are coming across that way. If not, then please explain what you do believe.

I don’t care if people think I’m wrong, because I know I am right.

LOL. Okay. I know you're wrong.

We are saved by grace, but the grace of God is not a license to sin.
Romans 6:1
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid!

Who said it was? Not me. But, it does mean that God does not immediately condemn us if we do sin. As John said, while including himself, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1 John 1:9). That verse does not appear to be in your Bible.

Romans 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion overyou: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Romans 6:15
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

That would contradict what John said about those who are born of God who cannot sin. There is no contradiction in the gospel message.

It's talking about sinning willfully. Why, oh why, do you not make any distinction between willful and unwillful sin when scripture clearly does? Just compare Romans 7:14-25 to Hebrews 10:26-27 and you will see that.

Where did I say that? Please provide the quote.

Because you are strongly coming across as saying that if you are saved then you can never sin. What is your point in bringing up all the verses that you're bringing up in this discussion then? What exactly is the point that you're trying to make? No reason to not make it clear. So, that's not what you actually believe then? You have sinned since you've been saved and don't believe that we have to be sinless in order to maintain our salvation?

I never said we are saved by our own righteous works. Please provide the quote where I said that. That is the misrepresentation of others beliefs I was talking about

You are strongly coming across as if you are saying we have to be sinless after being saved in order to maintain our salvation. I can't help it that you are strongly giving that impression. So, again, what is the point that you're trying to make?

It is not my own righteousness it is Christs righteousness that works in me that has made me righteous so that I can DO righteousness.

Yes, that's right. I agree. But, are you a puppet or a robot? Is this just automatic? You don't think you have to willingly submit to the Holy Spirit in order for Him to work through you? You have no responsibility? Are you a Calvinist? I probably should have asked you that long ago as that would explain a lot if you are.

By the grace of God we are made free from the power of sin in our lives. Being made free from sin is PROOF that we are saved by Grace.

Yes, but that doesn't mean God supernaturally keeps us from sinning. It means we are made free from the wages of sin, which is eternal death (the second death) because we are saved from that. Once we become saved we continue to be saved by grace through faith and not by works. Do you believe that? Do you agree with John that if we (he included himself) confess our sins then God is faithful and just to forgive us our sins (1 John 1:9)?

Again we are not saved by our own works, but we are saved so that we can then DO righteous works.

Right. Glad you realize that, but our salvation after initially becoming saved is still by grace through faith and not by works. Agree?

Notice Paul called them “carnal” that means they were still in “the flesh”and were not yet born again of the Spirit.

Here is what you are mistaken. Badly mistaken. He called them "babes in Christ". He would not say they were "in Christ" if they were not born again Christians. That is a fact. You need to ask God for wisdom about this (James 1:5-7) because you are clearly in the wrong here and blatantly contradicting Paul who called them Christians. There's no way that he would say they were "in Christ" if they were not born again of the Spirit.

But people can fall away from the faith back to a life of unrepentant sin despite the Spirit of grace.
“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

I agree.

Sure, the sin of ignorance can be forgiven if one repents.

Do you not think that the ones Paul called "babes in Christ" were sinning in ignorance?

No, I understand there is a growth process. And I understand there is a process of dying daily to sin. But one needs to be aware that sin needs to put to death in you or else one can be in danger of dying in their sins. That is why Jesus likened the removal of sin in our lives to the removal of evil body parts. If sin is not removed then you will be in danger of hell fire.

I agree.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

It means we are made free from the wages of sin, which is eternal death (the second death) because we are saved from that. Once we become saved we continue to be saved by grace through faith and not by works. Do you believe that?

No the scriptures don’t say that. It says we are made free from sin. To say we are made free from the wages of sin is the same thing as saying we are made free from the consequences of sin, and that implies you now have a license to sin because their are no more consequences if we keep on sinning. This is false

If you are made righteous by Christs righteousness you are also made free from sin and will no longer serve sin.

If someone is still sinning they are still in Adam, and are still in the flesh.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I pity you and others that have been led to believe that Christ is unable to make free from sin by the power of the Holy Spirit.

You speak of what you know, and I speak of what I know.

1 John 5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Well as what you accused is 180 degrees wrong- your response is irrelevant.

No you do not know a sinless life since you were born again. You have known deception from the evil one since you were born again. And you have become a master of twister. You justify and redefine sin for you are terrified that if you commit even one teeny tiny sin, you will losre you r salvation or wee never saved to begin with.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

In order to understand the 2 different marks you must understand these 2 different natures and what they detail. First let’s look at these 2 different positions.

Romans 5:19
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

The first position is in Adam, where many are made sinners. And if they are made sinners they will do sinful works. This means they are of the world and they are “carnal” being born of the “flesh” and having the “sin nature”of the Devil. This means they are in darkness and are of the evil seed being an evil tree. Those who are still in Adam are marked by sin. This Adam position I will refer to as group A.

The other position we see in Romans 5:19 is in Christ where many shall be made righteous. And if one is made righteous they will also do righteous works. This group is no longer of the world because they have been born again of the Spirit. This group is no longer in the flesh but are in the Spirit, having the Divine nature of Christ. This means they are no longer in the darkness but are now in the Light of Christ. This group are of the good seed and are the good trees. This group are marked by righteousness being made righteous by Christ. This position I will refer to as group C.

Those who are still in position A will try to perform the works of those who are in position C but they cannot because they are still in position A. There is an “enmity” between those in position A against those in position C because of this.

Paul spoke of this enmity and struggle of those in position A trying to do the good works of those in position C in Romans 7.
The reason those in position A could not do the good works of those in position C is because they were still in position A.

But Jesus came to remove that enmity in man, and remove mankind from position A to position C by spiritual rebirth. So those who are truly born again of the Holy Spirit have passed from position A to position C.

Those who are in position C knows what it is like to be in position A. But those in position A do not know what it is like to be in position C. Those in position C try to describe what it is like to be in position C to those who are in position A, but those in position A do not believe them because all position A knows is position A.

The false teachers in position A read about what it is like to be in position C, but they are unable to perform the good works of those in position C. So the false teachers try to blur the lines between the dark position of A from between the Light position of C.

In trying to justify their own position in A they have tried to create a gray area of B between Position A and C.

But there is no gray area, or lukewarm area by which you can be saved. You are either in the A position or in the C position.

The new man walks in righteousness, the old man walks in unrighteousness.

Put on the new man…

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a “new creature:” “old things are passed away;”behold, all things are become “new.”

Galatians 6:15
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a “new creature.”

Romans 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in “newness”of life.

Ephesians 4:24
And that ye put on the “new man,”which after God is created “in righteousness”and true holiness.

Colossians 3:10
And have put on the “new man,”which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, (old man) even so in Christ (new man) shall all be made alive.

Put on the “new man”…

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have “put on Christ.”

Romans 13:14
But “put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ,”and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

The old man is of the earth, and is born of “the flesh,”being natural or “carnally minded” having a “sin nature”

1 Corinthians 15:47
The first man (old man)is of the earth, earthy; the “second man”(new man)is the Lord from heaven.

The new man is born from above by the Holy Spirit, being spiritual He is “spiritually minded”having the “Divine nature”of God.

2 Peter 1:4
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the “divine nature,”having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

In the old man there is “Death”because of sin, in the new man there is “Life”because of Righteousness.

Romans 8:6
For to be “carnally minded is death;”but to be “spiritually minded is life and peace.”

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No the scriptures don’t say that. It says we are made free from sin. To say we are made free from the wages of sin is the same thing as saying we are made free from the consequences of sin, and that implies you now have a license to sin because their are no more consequences if we keep on sinning. This is false

No, that is not what I'm saying. Are you denying that we have been made free from the wages of sin? Before being saved, we were dead in our sins and were "children of wrath" (Eph 2:3). You don't think we've been made free from what? Of course we have! So, what I'm saying absolutely is NOT false.

If you are made righteous by Christs righteousness you are also made free from sin and will no longer serve sin.

If someone is still sinning they are still in Adam, and are still in the flesh.

Now, here you are again coming across as if you believe that one must be sinless in order to maintain his or her salvation, which is utterly false! It's just as I thought. You do not accept what is written in 1 John 1:8-10 and Ephesians 2:8-10. You make no distinction between willful and unwillful sin like scripture does.

Not serving sin does not equate to being sinless. Where is grace in your doctrine? You deny it, but if you think someone has to be sinless or reach a point where they no longer sin in order to be saved, then you are sadly mistaken. That means you remove God's grace from the requirements for salvation and make salvation by works instead of salvation by grace through faith and not by works.

You proved your lack of understanding by contradicting what Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 3:1-3 by falsely claiming that those he was rebuking weren't born again Christians. They absolutely were or else Paul would not have called them "babes in Christ". I said that maturing in the faith takes time and is a process and you said you agreed, but your interpretation of 1 Corinthians 3:1-3 says otherwise.