The Lords 2 anointed witnesses

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tailgator

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I understand that the 2 witness (2 men) will be unable to be harmed during the days of their testimony which lasts 42 months, ending when the beast is allowed in fact to kill them. This beast receives authority for 42 months, ending when Jesus returns physically to earth.

So then, the two witnesses prophesy for 42 months as which time God removes their protection, granting authority to the beast, who immediately kills them, then goes on for the next 42 months of great tribulation.

Much love!
The beast which ascends out of the abyss does not reign with Christ.

Three days after the beast kills the two witnesses Christ reigns over the kingdoms of this world.

Revelation 11
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.



Don't you agree it would be very difficult for the beast which ascends out of the abyss to reign for the next 42 months ,when the word of God says that Christ will reign and the kingdom of the earth has become his?





Be careful not to confuse the beast which ascends out of the abyss with the beast that came out of the sea.
The beast which came out of the sea reigns for 42 months after the arrival of the beast with two horns.


The beast which ascends out of the abyss does not reign in Jerusalem but three days,and then the kingdom becomes Christs.


Much love back at you ;)
 

Ronald Nolette

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1 Corinthians 2:11
For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
And you apparently do not have the SPirit of god to understand the things of God. You write and act like a cult leader wanna-be, seeking people to turn to you to give them what the Bible "really means".

You follow what all cult leaders do in som edegfree--" I know what the bible says, but this is what it really means, because god revealed it to me.

You are no different the CT Russell, Jospeh SMith, Sun Yung Moon, David Koresh, Jim Jones, Father divine et al.
 

marks

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The beast which ascends out of the abyss does not reign with Christ.

Three days after the beast kills the two witnesses Christ reigns over the kingdoms of this world.

Revelation 11
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.



Don't you agree it would be very difficult for the beast which ascends out of the abyss to reign for the next 42 months ,when the word of God says that Christ will reign and the kingdom of the earth has become his?





Be careful not to confuse the beast which ascends out of the abyss with the beast that came out of the sea.
The beast which came out of the sea reigns for 42 months after the arrival of the beast with two horns.


The beast which ascends out of the abyss does not reign in Jerusalem but three days,and then the kingdom becomes Christs.


Much love back at you ;)
Maybe it would help me understand your view if you were to give me a thumbnail sketch of the timeline of the end of the age, would you like to do that?

Much love! :-)
 

tailgator

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Maybe it would help me understand your view if you were to give me a thumbnail sketch of the timeline of the end of the age, would you like to do that?

Much love! :-)
There's not much time left.
As I understand it ,the king of the north in Daniel 11 gives his armed forces to the Israeli government which is the beast from.the sea.These armed forces are led by two evangelical christians who will be giving fire commands to destroy their enemies. Their goal is to save Israel and keep Israel safe as the king of the north says.During this time the people in Israel will be given a mark in their right hand or forehead.This would obviously be the implantable microchip Benjamin netanyahu said he wants Israelis to receive a couple years ago.After the king of the norths armed forces have occupied Israel for 1260 days or 42 months,the kings of the east including Iran,Iraq ,Syria,Turkey and at least 6 other Muslim nations attack Israel overwhelming the king of the norths armed forces and Israel resulting in a nuclear war in which the king of the north destroys about all of the middle east including Iran and Egypt and everything in between.
 
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Stewardofthemystery

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And you apparently do not have the SPirit of god to understand the things of God. You write and act like a cult leader wanna-be, seeking people to turn to you to give them what the Bible "really means".

You follow what all cult leaders do in som edegfree--" I know what the bible says, but this is what it really means, because god revealed it to me.

You are no different the CT Russell, Jospeh SMith, Sun Yung Moon, David Koresh, Jim Jones, Father divine et al.
I’m not seeking people to turn to me, I tell people to turn to Christ.
 

tailgator

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Maybe it would help me understand your view if you were to give me a thumbnail sketch of the timeline of the end of the age, would you like to do that?

Much love! :-)
PS
The fire which proceeds from the mouths of the two evangelicals are simple fire commands..This is a common practice in the US armed forces.


5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.


Fire commands are oral orders issued by leaders to focus and distribute fires as required achieving decisive effects against the enemy. They allow leaders to rapidly and concisely articulate their firing instructions using a standard format (Refer to TC 3-20.31-4 for more information).
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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There's not much time left.
As I understand it ,the king of the north in Daniel 11 gives his armed forces to the Israeli government which is the beast from.the sea.These armed forces are led by two evangelical christians who will be giving fire commands to destroy their enemies. Their goal is to save Israel and keep Israel safe as the king of the north says.During this time the people in Israel will be given a mark in their right hand or forehead.This would obviously be the implantable microchip Benjamin netanyahu said he wants Israelis to receive a couple years ago.After the king of the norths armed forces have occupied Israel for 1260 days or 42 months,the kings of the east including Iran,Iraq ,Syria,Turkey and at least 6 other Muslim nations attack Israel overwhelming the king of the norths armed forces and Israel resulting in a nuclear war in which the king of the north destroys about all of the middle east including Iran and Egypt..
Clear as mud. You get all this, marks? LOL.
 

marks

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PS
The fire which proceeds from the mouths of the two evangelicals are simple fire commands..This is a common practice in the US armed forces.


5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.


Fire commands are oral orders issued by leaders to focus and distribute fires as required achieving decisive effects against the enemy. They allow leaders to rapidly and concisely articulate their firing instructions using a standard format (Refer to TC 3-20.31-4 for more information).
That helps, I appreciate it!

Much love!
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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I'm not saying I agree, but I followed his thoughts, and I could see where he was getting these things from the various Scriptures.

What is it that makes this a laughing matter to you?

Much love!
Because I don't think what he said is clear at all. Am I not allowed to think that? Is there some rule where I'm not allowed to find someone's opinion to be funny? I think the scenario he laid out there is utterly ridiculous and sensationalistic. Is it okay with you if I think that way?
 

Stewardofthemystery

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PS
The fire which proceeds from the mouths of the two evangelicals are simple fire commands..This is a common practice in the US armed forces.


5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.


Fire commands are oral orders issued by leaders to focus and distribute fires as required achieving decisive effects against the enemy. They allow leaders to rapidly and concisely articulate their firing instructions using a standard format (Refer to TC 3-20.31-4 for more information).
OR it could be this….

Now, let’s move on to other questions that may arise about the 2 witnesses, such as verse 5….

Revelation 11:5 “And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.”

The answer to this mystery is shown inJeremiah 5:14 “Wherefore thus saith the Lord God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them.”

All the answers to the many mysteries found in Gods words are to be found in the words of God.
 

tailgator

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Because I don't think what he said is clear at all. Am I not allowed to think that? Is there some rule where I'm not allowed to find someone's opinion to be funny? I think the scenario he laid out there is utterly ridiculous and sensationalistic. Is it okay with you if I think that way?
It's simple.
If you understand the time of the end did not take place 2000 years ago.

While the king of the north is talking himself up as is his tradition,the two witnesses will be smiting the earth with all sorts of plagues as often as they want.At least till verse 40.



Daniel 11
36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.

39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.
 

tailgator

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OR it could be this….

Now, let’s move on to other questions that may arise about the 2 witnesses, such as verse 5….

Revelation 11:5 “And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.”

The answer to this mystery is shown inJeremiah 5:14 “Wherefore thus saith the Lord God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them.”

All the answers to the many mysteries found in Gods words are to be found in the words of God.

You believe those gentiles who occupy Israel for those 42 months has that power do you?
 

Spiritual Israelite

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It's simple.
LOL. There's nothing simple about your doctrine.

If you understand the time of the end did not take place 2000 years ago.
I prefer to go by John's understanding of the time of the end, which began long ago already.

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

I see no difference between "the time of the end" and "the last time", so the time of the end started long ago already and we're still in it because there are still many antichrists in the world.
 

TribulationSigns

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Anyway, while I do think your interpretation of the two witnesses is viable, my current take on the two witnesses is a little different than what you described. But, I do see them as being symbolic, not representing two individuals, and representing the preaching of the gospel throughout the world during the symbolic 1,260 days just as you do.

So, Yes, I believe Two Witnesses are God's people in the New Testament with the power of the Spirit to preach the Gospel to the World. Anyone who is born from above has been endowed with power by the Spirit of God in them that they become His Witness. This just means that God has bestowed upon them the power to prophecy, which they didn't have before (ie. Old Testament). And that is why the word, "power", is included in most translations. Without the power of the Holy SPirit within us bearing witness with our spirit (Romans 8:16), we have NO power and can NOT be a true witness of God. Because these are two things which make us a faithful witnesses of God. The Word and His Spirit.

You related the fact that the two witnesses are described symbolically as "two olive trees" to Zechariah 4 (which is not unreasonable), but I personally relate it to Romans 11:16-24 where Paul describes a natural olive tree, representing the kingdom of God that in OT times only the nation of Israel was part of. And he describes a wild olive tree, representing the Gentiles, being grafted into it so that they too could "partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree" (Romans 11:17). Of course, it's only Gentile believers who are grafted in because being grafted in is based on having faith. Those in unbelief are cut off (Romans 11:17,22).

The two witnesses are also described as "two candlesticks" and in the book of Revelation "candlesticks" symbolically represent churches (Revelation 1:20). So, I see the two witnesses as representing the congregations of the Jews and the Gentiles witnessing together as one to the world. As Jesus said in Acts 1:8, "ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.".

It's possible that we're both right and that the two witnesses represent both the witness of the Word and the Spirit and the witness of Jew and Gentile believers together in the church as one body (one olive tree grafted in with another). The church witnesses through the power of the Word and the Spirit. Regardless, we both see it as a symbolic representation of the preaching of the gospel throughout the world rather than talking about two individuals witnessing in Jerusalem for a literal 1,260 days in the future as many believe.


Luke 8:16
  • "No man when he lighteth a candle, covereth it with a vessel, or putteth it under a bed; but setteth it on a Candlestick, that they which enter in may see the Light."
Matthew 5:14
  • "Ye are the light of the world, A City that is set on a hill cannot be hid.
  • neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a Candlestick; and it giveth Light unto all that are in the house."
We have Jesus Christ Himself using the same Candlestick [luchnia] to symbolize the Church, and the witnesses work in the New Testament Church as those keeping the light shinning continually, not hiding it, but bringing this light to the World. It doesn't get much plainer than this. And note that Jesus also equates the Church with a 'city' which is set upon a hill. This is the Holy city Jerusalem, the spiritual city of peace and light. And so we have conclusive indisputable evidences throughout scripture that the candlestick symbolizes the Church, the earthly representation of the light of the Lord. There is really no reason for speculation about it symbolizing anything else, unless one is predisposed to believing such ideas. For God Himself reveals the mystery on several diverse fronts.

Will this definition of the two witnesses hold true in the other images God uses for them, such as the two witnesses or the two Olive Trees? Do those also symbolize the Church which is the earthly representation of Christ? Again, we go back to the number one rule of sound hermeneutics, 'the Bible is it's own interpreter.' If we start off with no preconceived ideas about what it signifies, and search out the pertinent scriptures, it's not long before we see that the Olive tree is indeed used by God to symbolize the Church. For example in Hosea 14, speaking of Christ we read:

Hosea 14:5-7
  • "I will be as the dew unto Israel: he shall grow as the lily, and cast forth his roots as Lebanon.
  • His branches shall spread, and his beauty shall be as the Olive Tree, and his smell as Lebanon."
  • They that dwell under his shadow shall return; they shall revive as the corn, and grow as the vine: the scent thereof shall be as the wine of Lebanon."
The Israel of God is ultimately Christ, and the children of God who dwell under the shadow of this tree will have no scorching sun on them. When we are in Christ, we are like a green olive tree in the house of the Lord (Psalms 52:8). This is the Salvation and the hope of the Israel of God. And as we are the light of the world because Christ is the light of the world, so we are the Olive tree because Christ is this Olive tree. He is the Israel of the New Covenant in whom if we abide, we are sons of God. We can see this most clearly in a passage like Romans chapter nine or chapter eleven where the Gentile nations are grafted into New Covenant Israel, which is symbolized by the Olive tree.

Romans 11:17
  • "And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;"
Clearly God is using a wild olive tree to symbolize the Gentile nations, and the natural Olive Tree to symbolize the representation of Covenant Israel into which believers are grafted. i.e., we join with Paul and the Apostles into Christ, the true Israel of God (Ephesians 2:11-19) which this Covenant tree merely represents. This is the New Covenant Church, and it is symbolized by the olive tree having Gentiles grafted into it that they become heirs (right along with the Jews) according to the promises to Israel. And so once again we see the Word of God showing just who the olive tree represents. All those Gentiles coming into this Jewish olive tree are the believers coming into the New Covenant Congregation. Those branches of the tree broken off are those of Israel who come under judgment and are blinded. The Jewish brethren who are Saved are the branches in this same tree right along with us. So we see Jewish people and Gentiles, all in the exact same olive tree of Salvation.

Likewise in Zechariah chapter four, the symbolism of two olive trees and the candlestick (lampstand) are signifying the Church.

Zechariah 4:2-6
  • "And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof:
  • And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof.
  • So I answered and spake to the angel that talked with me, saying, What are these, my lord?
  • Then the angel that talked with me answered and said unto me, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
  • Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts."
The Lampstands and olive tress stand before God, not by their own power or by their own might, but by the Holy Spirit of the Lord. This again illustrating what we've been seeing of the two Witnesses. It is not by any power we have inherently, but because of the power of the Holy Spirit of God given us that we witness or have the testimony of Christ. Not by our own oil, but by the pure oil of the Olive tree. Not by our own light, but by the light of the candle. The two olive trees symbolize the anointed ones that stand by the Lord of the whole earth (Zechariah 4:14), not by their own power, but by power of God. This symbolizes the Church, anointed by the Spirit of God. Just as we read that the two Witnesses of Revelation also stand by the Lord of the earth.

Zechariah 4:14
  • "Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth."
The same thing Revelation Chapter Eleven says of the two candlestick/olive trees there. They stand before the God of the earth. They are the anointed ones, meaning they are those who are anointed by the Holy Spirit, by being in Christ. The oil for the light is not theirs, it is that given them.

1st John 2:27
  • "But the anointing which ye have received of Him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him."
So we have seen from God's Word that the Witnesses represent the Church, the Candlesticks represent the Church, and the Olive Tree represents the Church, and that they are the anointed ones who stand before the God of the earth. All roads are leading to the same inescapable conclusion. This imagery represents the Church.
 
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tailgator

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LOL. There's nothing simple about your doctrine.


I prefer to go by John's understanding of the time of the end, which began long ago already.

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

I see no difference between "the time of the end" and "the last time", so the time of the end started long ago already and we're still in it because there are still many antichrists in the world.
So you don't understand Daniel 11:40 -12:2 which takes place at the time of the end.


"at the time of the end"

Daniel 11

40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.

41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.

42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape.

43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.

44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.

45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

12 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
 

TribulationSigns

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I believe it is much more simple than all that.

Not unless you compare Scripture with Scripture and allow the Bible to be its own interpreter than making speculations.

The "two witnesses" in Rev.11 will indeed be about two flesh born men

No. Not "two flesh born men." Two Witnesses signifies ALL Lord's witnesses in His New Testament Congregation, preaching the Gospel of peace (salvation) for 1,260 symbolic days which represents the length of time of faithful testimony - - until all Elect are secured, THEN the beast will come out.

because that Scripture is clear that they are killed by the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit, and their dead bodies are left in the street for three and one half days.

But do you understand what God is talking about here? Do you know who the beast is? And his goal? It is a BODY of Satan made up of false prophets and christs that attacks God's anointed witnesses to remove their testimony of Gospel (peace) from Earth. Here is something for you to consider in Revelation 6:

Rev 6:2
  • And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
This white horse is Jesus Christ after the Cross, established His Kingdom in church, going forth to conquering and TO CONQUER through His faithful witnesses (Two Witnesses) to represent Him to preach Gospel of Peace to the world. After Christ has secured all of his Elect through the testimony of Two Witnesses, the red horse come:

Rev 6:3-4
(3) And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.
(4) And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

The second horse represents false prophets and christs that was given power from God (through Satan) to take Gospel PEACE from the Earth. This spells the end of salvation because God has finished securing all of His Elect and the Two Witnesses' testimony FOR Salvation has ended. The unsaved people of the congregation will kill each other with false gospels and doctrines. A great sword is a massive word of deception that deceives many.


What you apparently are missing is this: that prophecy also says they are the "two candlesticks". And what did Lord Jesus say the "candlesticks" represent in Rev.1? He said they represent the seven Churches.

Olive tree = Church (Romans 11)
Candlestick = Church (Revelation 1)
Witnesses = Church (Acts 1)
Prophets = Church (Rev 1)

We already explained our position.
In Rev.2 & 3, Lord Jesus had rebuke for 5 out of the seven Churches. Only 2 Churches He had no rebuke for. Can you thus figure out who the "two candlesticks" are that will give witness along with God's "two witnesses" in Jerusalem?

We've seen clear Scripture which supports the Candlestick, Olive Tree, Witnesses, and Prophets, are all used in scripture as representations of the Church. We've seen Biblical evidence that God uses the number two, and specifically, two witnesses, to illustrate a confirmation of that which is true. It is the true Church of God that is sent forth with power to witness in truth (as the example when Christ had His 12 Apostles or 72 men were sent out two by two). Number two signifies TRUTH! By contrast, there are no scriptures which say that the olive tree is Moses, or that it is Elijah, or that candlesticks symbolize two literal men, or the two covenants. That fact alone means that such personal interpretations are purely speculation by some theologians. In other words, it is not something which is actually declared, or which stands upon solid scripture.
 
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