The Hell Doctrine - No doctrinal unity

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Ronald Nolette

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If it's true that the "lost" will suffer FOREVER then the following verses are all FALSE.

1 John 4:14

14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.



1 Timothy 4:10 For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.



Lamentations 3:31 For the Lord will not cast off forever[PM1]



Romans 5:18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.



1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.



Romans 11:32 For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.



John 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL people to myself.”



Revelation 21:5 And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” Also he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”



2 Corinthians 5:19 that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.



John 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.



2 Corinthians 5:14-15 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; 15 and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.



Colossians 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.



John 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.



Luke 3:6 and all flesh shall see the salvation of God



Philippians 2:10-11 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Romans 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.



2 Samuel 14:14 We must all die; we are like water spilled on the ground, which cannot be gathered up again. But God will not take away life, and he devises means so that the banished one will not remain an outcast.



Ephesians 1:10 As a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in Him, things in heaven and things on earth.



John 1:29 The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!"


[PM1]

Not at all! Those verses are all 100% accurate and true!

But it is your understanding that is faulty.

MOst of these verses are not absolute empirical soteriological statements.

Some are possibilities in the Greek that is not expressed in the English.

Some are absolute- all flesh will see the salvation of God- but that does not mean all will be saved

Every knee shall bow- but not all will bow as saved, but "forced " to bow to admit Jesus is Lord.

Jesus has taken away the sins of the world- but those who do not trust in Him are condemened in their sins for not trusting in Him. JOhn 3

JOhn 3:17? It says may- not will!

Rev. 21 happens after the lost are cast- then He makes all things new!

1 JOhn 4:14 I agree 100%. And if this was the only verse it would be universalism. However we know form other passages that this just means all men are savable, but many will not be saved!

The verses with all in them. this takes a grammatic understanding of the Greek. There are two basic words in Greek for "all", Pas and pantos. Pantos means each and every single thing in view Pas means each of the group or particular amount. Let me exemplify:

1. all people will die- that is pantos. For all die.
2. All the children came to the party. that is pas. Not every child on earth came- but all that were invited - a particular group.
 

Jack

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It's a semi-fictitious story (parable) that delivers a singular truth, but somehow you missed it.
[31] And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
Where does it say it's a parable? It doesn't!
 

quietthinker

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Where does it say it's a parable? It doesn't!
When Jesus told his stories and parables Jack, he didn't preface it with, 'this is a story' or 'this is a parable'. That was done by the writers of the gospels fifty years later.
 

Jack

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When Jesus told his stories and parables Jack, he didn't preface it with, 'this is a story' or 'this is a parable'. That was done by the writers of the gospels fifty years later.
You have ZERO proof that it's a parable. No parable uses literal Biblical people. Just because you don't like what Jesus said doesn't make it a parable. It totally agrees with Jesus's teachings about "the everlasting fire".
 
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quietthinker

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You have ZERO proof that it's a parable. No parable uses literal Biblical people.
For those who have no interest in seeing anything other than what and how they see, I have no interest in 'proving' anything.
If one wants to believe the Earth is flat because they live in Kansas, who am I to convince them that Everest is on another continent?.......for all I know they might be in continent. :)
 

Jack

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For those who have no interest in seeing anything other than what and how they see, I have no interest in 'proving' anything.
If one wants to believe the Earth is flat because they live in Kansas, who am I to convince them that Everest is on another continent?.......for all I know they might be in continent. :)
Yeah, that's what I just said, you have ZERO proof that it's a parable.

Matthew 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
 

quietthinker

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Yeah, that's what I just said, you have ZERO proof that it's a parable.

Matthew 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Did you read the article I posted in posts #67 and #68 Jack?
 

quietthinker

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No, I'm interested in Scripture, not opinions.
Fighting an invisible man in a dark room ensures the rocket never gets off the ground!......oops, that's not in scripture.....and what have rockets and invisible men got to do with the price of fish anyway? :)
 

Jack

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Fighting an invisible man in a dark room ensures the rocket never gets off the ground!......oops, that's not in scripture.....and what have rockets and invisible men got to do with the price of fish anyway? :)
Thus says Jesus:

Matthew 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Thus says Satan, 'There is not eternal Hell fire'.
 

quietthinker

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Thus says Jesus:

Matthew 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Thus says Satan, 'There is not eternal Hell fire'.
Read the article. It'll at least give you an additional perspective....even if you disagree with it. :)
 

quietthinker

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I read lots of articles before I realized, it's what God said that matters.
You said you want Scripture....there are scriptures posted in the article. See what you think?
 

quietthinker

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So post them. I got tired of reading opinions a long time ago. I'll stick with the Bible.
Are you not aware Jack, that every word you post here is your opinion? Maybe being tired of your own opinions is a good place to start? :)
 

Jack

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Are you not aware Jack, that every word you post here is your opinion?
You just lied.

Matthew 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Not my opinion!

Maybe being tired of your own opinions is a good place to start? :)
I'm kind of tired of your opinions since you don't like me quoting God.
 
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Patrick1966

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Love to see a scripture confirming this, Patrick.

Revelation 14:10

Young's Literal Translation

10 he also shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, that hath been mingled unmixed in the cup of His anger, and he shall be tormented in fire and brimstone before the holy messengers, and before the Lamb,
 

Triumph1300

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Revelation 14:10​

Young's Literal Translation​

10 he also shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, that hath been mingled unmixed in the cup of His anger, and he shall be tormented in fire and brimstone before the holy messengers, and before the Lamb,
You think that means satan will be saved?
 

Patrick1966

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You think that means satan will be saved?

Yes. Remember, tormenting is also a term related to refining. Furthermore, sulfur is a refining agent. Why would sulfur be used if the purpose isn't to refine? And why does it say that it will be done in the presence of Jesus? It's because Jesus is, I believe, personally supervising the transformation of Satan.

Besides, is not Satan doing EXACTLY what God intended him to do? Satan didn't come about by accident. God is using Satan for our edification. So why would God torture Satan for eternity or destroy him for being what God intended him to be?

Why does God "loose" Satan again upon the world at the end of the millennium? It's because the lesson is not yet finished. Again, God is using Satan. In the end, when it's all finished, Jesus will transform Satan as described above.