The Gospel of Reconciliation

[Rightglory]

Our understanding of Romans 5:10 is informed by the context where it is found. The opening line of Romans 5 limits the discussion to those who have been justified by faith. Concerning those who have been justified by faith he says, "For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life." In this context the "we" in verse 10 refers to those who have been justified by faith.

Here Paul argues from the greater to the lesser. If we accept the fact that it took great magnanimity for God to reconcile with us while we were his enemies, how difficult with it be for God to save us when we become his friends?

Vs 6 is a transitional vs. He has been speaking about believers, being justified by faith. He speaks of the hope believers now have. What is that hope? Christ died for the ungodly, which is all men. If you disagree then you need to develop a theory of what is the condition of all other people in this world. We know from other texts within Rom 5 that Paul is addressing the work of Christ on the Cross. He is addressing his death and who He saved from death. Rom 5:12 says that the condemnation of death to Adam was passed on to all men. Why, because from Adam onward we are all born mortal. God told Adam he would die, dust to dust. That is physical death. Then in vs 18 he makes an equation again. Death came through one man, so life came to all men. It is not hard to follow. In none of these versus are believers specifically referenced. From vs 6- 19 the context is Christ's victory over death.

Is this true for all human beings? Reconciliation is available to all human beings but only if an individual is justified by faith.

2 Corinthians 5:16-19 Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer. Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.​

in Christ . . .
Here, Paul limits his word to those who are "in Christ." Only those who are "in Christ" are new creatures.

Yes, but Paul also gives you the reason why there is the opportunity for any human being to reespond to the call of the Holy Spirit. That reason is that God was in Christ reconciling THE WORLD to Himself. You would not be able to reconcile yourself in vs 20 unless Christ first reconciled the world. Having faith is God would be meaningless if there is not eternity. That is also what I Cor 15:13-19 states.
Your view only covers the reason he saved the world from death. You miss the whole work of Christ defeating death, the power of
Satan Heb 2:14-16.
That fact that you think this is actually about our relationship, "being in Christ" is why you misunderstand these texts. All human beings are IN CHRIST physically. He assumed our human natures and raised them to life, physical existence in eternity. Mortal to immortal, I Cor 15:53-54.

reconciling the world . . .
The Apostle is not talking about individuals here. His reference to "the world" indicates the extent of his missionary efforts. His ministry was not limited to Judah, Israel or Antioch. Paul and others spread the message of reconciliation to the whole world.

Missionary work is not the antecedent of God was in Christ reconciling the world. It is about Christ, not either Paul or any believer doing missionary work. There would be no need to do missionary work if Christ did not reconcile the world.

 

[Rightglory]

@Rightglory


False, the whole of Rom 5 is about the Elect. Only all the elect have Justification of life as Per Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

It is not about elect or believers after vs 6. Citing Rom 5:18 is quite clear it is all men. It does not say elect nor believers.
Playing devils advocate here. If your statement is true, then Rom 5 would only be about elect as well. Thus we have a portion of mankind that was condemned through Adam, namely believer (elect) What happens to all other human beings? Do they remain righteous as Adam was before he sinned. Where are all these people who never died.

All the elect are Justified, reiterated in Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Totally out of context, has nothing to do with the topic at hand. The topic is not even believers, but the work of the Incarnated Christ and what He accomplished in defeating death by His resurrection.

 

[Rightglory]

@Rightglory


Correct, only the fall in Adam is corrected, and he only represented the Church in his fall, thats why he and eve is a picture, type of Christ and the church Eph 5:30-32

This is interesting theology. If Adam represents the Church, and only the Church is corrected, then you have a conundrum.
That would mean there were other human beings with Adam who were not condemned through Adam. Are they all alive still? We should have people still alive from the time of Adam.
But alas, you are incorrect. Adam represents every human being, The consequence of his sin was physical death, mortality. We, every single human being ever born in this world is born with the same human nature, a mortal one. Christ came to defeat that death for all men. God was not willing to permit Satan who has the power of death to simply dissolve through death back into dust. his whole creation. God created man to be in union with Him, and to have an eternal existence.

30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

The non elect didnt fall in Adam sir, so they wont be and are not reconciled to God

You realize this is a form if annihilation. What happens to other human beings if they did not fall in adam. You are so far out on a limb here. I have debated other Calvinists and never has any of them made similar statements as you do, which makes me think that Calvin didn't either. So you must be adding your very own interpretation to scripture and not doing a very good job at it.

 

[brightfame52]

This is interesting theology. If Adam represents the Church, and only the Church is corrected, then you have a conundrum.
That would mean there were other human beings with Adam who were not condemned through Adam. Are they all alive still? We should have people still alive from the time of Adam.
But alas, you are incorrect. Adam represents every human being, The consequence of his sin was physical death, mortality. We, every single human being ever born in this world is born with the same human nature, a mortal one. Christ came to defeat that death for all men. God was not willing to permit Satan who has the power of death to simply dissolve through death back into dust. his whole creation. God created man to be in union with Him, and to have an eternal existence.


You realize this is a form if annihilation. What happens to other human beings if they did not fall in adam. You are so far out on a limb here. I have debated other Calvinists and never has any of them made similar statements as you do, which makes me think that Calvin didn't either. So you must be adding your very own interpretation to scripture and not doing a very good job at it.

The Non elect became Adams physical seed as well, but they didnt fall in Adam, though they incur the condemnation Adam incurred for his original seed, the elect, the church. Adams non elect seed belong to the devil, they are the children of the wicked one Matt 13:38

The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

The children of the wicked one are the serpents seed Gen 3:15

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Adam only represented originally the good seed, those as he were created in the image and likeness of God,

So Romans 5 is strictly about the elect, the church. Remember Adam prefigured Christ Rom 5:14

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Still the non elect who didnt partake in Adams Transgression, still death reigned over them, but they wont be redeemed like Adam and His Orginal seed, the church.

 

[Rightglory]

The Non elect became Adams physical seed as well, but they didnt fall in Adam, though they incur the condemnation Adam incurred for his original seed, the elect, the church. Adams non elect seed belong to the devil, they are the children of the wicked one Matt 13:38"

That is just amazing. Is this what Calvin wrote as well? How can non-elect be of physical seed of Adam. but did not fall in Adam? If they did not fall in Adam, then we have millions of people who never died. Or do you have some text that that establish how they might have died, if they did not incur the condemnation of Adam.
If this is true then what kind of natures do these two species have since they are not of the same nature" Where is that exstablished in scripture. Where does it say that Christ assumed the nature of the elect.
I can only conjecture because your whole statement is but nonsense relative to scripture;.

The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

The children of the wicked one are the serpents seed Gen 3:15

Not relavant to the topic. Out of context.

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Yes, this is the promise of God to Adam that He will send a redeemer to overcome the condemnation of death to the world because of Adam's sin.

Adam only represented originally the good seed, those as he were created in the image and likeness of God,

Show me a text anywhere that this is stated. So we have human beings of some sort who are not created in the image and likeness of God?

So Romans 5 is strictly about the elect, the church. Remember Adam prefigured Christ Rom 5:14

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

From vs 6 throuh the end Paul is addressing the work of Christ by His death and resurrection.
You are right Adam prefigured Christ. What Adam did was reversed by Christ. From death to life. That is what Rom 18 states exacrtly
death came to all men, Christ by His resurrection gave life to all men.

Still the non elect who didnt partake in Adams Transgression, still death reigned over them, but they wont be redeemed like Adam and His Orginal seed, the church.

If the non-elect who didn't partake in adam transgression you say still died. How, or what caused them to die? If they are not redeemed neither is your so-called elect. It is either all men are redeemed or none are redeemed. Paul is quite clear on that in I Cor 15:53-54.
(though this is not on topic, but scripture does not support the idea of a person being predestined to believe which gives you the distinction you are trying to make. You have two doctrines, maybe three based on your theory of the fall, that are not supported by scripture.

 

[brightfame52]

No conditions to be reconciled !

Not all men are reconciled to God by Christ's death while being enemies, and thats simply because Christ's death was not for everyone without exception. Thats why some are reconciled to God while being enemies and unbelievers Rom 5:10 and why some are under Gods wrath and condemnation while being enemies and unbelievers Jn 3:18,36 !

There is simply only one explanation for this, Christ died for some who are enemies and unbelievers and did not die for others who are enemies and unbelievers !

The enemies and unbelievers that Christ died for are reconciled to God by it, did not perform any conditions whatsoever, because they were actively enemies and unbelievers, So Christ fulfilled all the conditions necessary for them to be reconciled to God while being enemies and unbelievers !13

 

[Rightglory]

No conditions to be reconciled !

Not all men are reconciled to God by Christ's death while being enemies, and thats simply because Christ's death was not for everyone without exception. Thats why some are reconciled to God while being enemies and unbelievers Rom 5:10 and why some are under Gods wrath and condemnation while being enemies and unbelievers Jn 3:18,36 !

You can say that a thousand times but that will not change what scripture states. So far, we have found that you do not believe what scrpture states about the fall of man. You do not believe in the Incarnation of Christ, You do not believe Christ died was resurrected to give life to the world.
You seem to build your whole theory on Rom 5:10 disregarding immediate context as well as the redemptive texts of the whole of scripture.
Here you cite John 3:18,36 which has to do with who believed and who does not believe. It has all to do with our personal relationship with Christ. All men will give an account of their deeds at the judgement Rom 2:8f.
The Biblical fact is that this relationship with God that man can choose to have would be meaningless without the reconciliation of the world from the curse of death which was the consequences of the fall of man. You leave all of mankind still in their sins and treaspasses and will die permanently returned to dust. It leave Christ as a mere figurehead who accomplished nothing.

Here is a short summary of most of the texts that support Christ's primary universal work of His death and resurrection. Defeating death and giving life to the world.

Though man was punished, God also provided redemption. God was not willing to allow His creation to simply dissolve back into nothingness after the fall. The Revelation we have in the OT is God's message and the preparation of the coming of the Messiah. God sent His Only Son, Christ, to reconcile the world unto himself, II Cor 5:14-19. Because Christ is the eternal image of the Father, He alone is able to renew the image of God in man. Col 1:15-20; John 5:28-29; Rom 5:12, Rom 5:14-19; Rom 11:32; I Cor 15:12-22; II Tim 1:10, Heb 2:9 Heb 2:14-17, Col 1:20, I John 2:2, John 1:29, John 6:39. Texts that corroborate this view are: Acts 24:15; Acts 23:6; I Cor 15:52, Eph 1:10; John 5:28, John 12: 32, I Tim 4:10, Is 26:19, Dan 12:2, Luke 2:30-32, Rev 20:12-13. They also show the universality of Christ's redemptive work. John 4:42, I John 4:14.
Christ's work on the Cross is solely Grace, man has nothing to do with it, it is totally objective. See: John 1:13, I Pet 1:23, James 1:18, Gal 4:4, Heb 2:11, Rom 9:16.
Christ came to us Incarnate. Meaning He was both God and Man. It means that the joining of God's perfect Image was to be reunited with the fallen image of man and creation. Thus in summation, man lost the perfect created image in which he was made and lost the ability to commune with God so that man could attain Godlikeness. He lost life.

The Incarnation of our human nature was a necessity in order that Christ could redeem it. Christ became man, consubstantial with man, in order to effect the changes necessary to redeem our natures. Adam's sin resulted in a judgment against man's nature, death. Man became mortal, living in a state of death. Thus all men are born dead, by nature, inherited corruptness. It is from this state of death, mortality, the flesh that sin originates in man I Cor 15:56..
It is also why all men will die once. It is to rid this mortal body of sin. That when all men are raised in the last day all will be raised immortal and incorruptible. Each then will stand in judgement before Christ.

 

[brightfame52]

You can say that a thousand times but that will not change what scripture states. So far, we have found that you do not believe what scrpture states about the fall of man. You do not believe in the Incarnation of Christ, You do not believe Christ died was resurrected to give life to the world.
You seem to build your whole theory on Rom 5:10 disregarding immediate context as well as the redemptive texts of the whole of scripture.
Here you cite John 3:18,36 which has to do with who believed and who does not believe. It has all to do with our personal relationship with Christ. All men will give an account of their deeds at the judgement Rom 2:8f.
The Biblical fact is that this relationship with God that man can choose to have would be meaningless without the reconciliation of the world from the curse of death which was the consequences of the fall of man. You leave all of mankind still in their sins and treaspasses and will die permanently returned to dust. It leave Christ as a mere figurehead who accomplished nothing.

Here is a short summary of most of the texts that support Christ's primary universal work of His death and resurrection. Defeating death and giving life to the world.

Though man was punished, God also provided redemption. God was not willing to allow His creation to simply dissolve back into nothingness after the fall. The Revelation we have in the OT is God's message and the preparation of the coming of the Messiah. God sent His Only Son, Christ, to reconcile the world unto himself, II Cor 5:14-19. Because Christ is the eternal image of the Father, He alone is able to renew the image of God in man. Col 1:15-20; John 5:28-29; Rom 5:12, Rom 5:14-19; Rom 11:32; I Cor 15:12-22; II Tim 1:10, Heb 2:9 Heb 2:14-17, Col 1:20, I John 2:2, John 1:29, John 6:39. Texts that corroborate this view are: Acts 24:15; Acts 23:6; I Cor 15:52, Eph 1:10; John 5:28, John 12: 32, I Tim 4:10, Is 26:19, Dan 12:2, Luke 2:30-32, Rev 20:12-13. They also show the universality of Christ's redemptive work. John 4:42, I John 4:14.
Christ's work on the Cross is solely Grace, man has nothing to do with it, it is totally objective. See: John 1:13, I Pet 1:23, James 1:18, Gal 4:4, Heb 2:11, Rom 9:16.
Christ came to us Incarnate. Meaning He was both God and Man. It means that the joining of God's perfect Image was to be reunited with the fallen image of man and creation. Thus in summation, man lost the perfect created image in which he was made and lost the ability to commune with God so that man could attain Godlikeness. He lost life.

The Incarnation of our human nature was a necessity in order that Christ could redeem it. Christ became man, consubstantial with man, in order to effect the changes necessary to redeem our natures. Adam's sin resulted in a judgment against man's nature, death. Man became mortal, living in a state of death. Thus all men are born dead, by nature, inherited corruptness. It is from this state of death, mortality, the flesh that sin originates in man I Cor 15:56..
It is also why all men will die once. It is to rid this mortal body of sin. That when all men are raised in the last day all will be raised immortal and incorruptible. Each then will stand in judgement before Christ.

Like I said, there is but one explanation why some unbelieving enemies are reconciled to God, and another set of the same are condemned and under Gods wrath, and thats Christ didnt die for the condemned portion of mankind. See there is a world of people reconciled to God 2 Cor 5:19 and then there is a world of people God condemns 1 Cor 11:32

 

[CadyandZoe]

I'm not sure to what you are referring.

You said that Paul wasn't talking about a subset of people in Romans 5. He is and apparently you missed it.

Chapter 5 opens with "Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God . . ." The topic of discussion in Romans 5 is limited to those who have been justified by faith.

The entire Bible is written to and for Christians.

While the intended audience is one important factor in our understanding of a text, it isn't the only one.

You just implied that the whole of Chapter 5 is about Christians.

Not only did I imply it, I stated it explicitly. Our understanding of chapter 5 is informed by the opening verse.

But the context is not relational, in other words what we call spiritual relationship.

I disagree. Paul employs the phrase "in Christ" to indicate anyone who has become Jesus' disciple.

It is speaking about the Incarnation of Christ by which Christ assumed our human nature.

Incorrect. The phrase "in Christ" has nothing to do with the incarnation.

Thus all men, every single human being, including the world because we were made of this earth, was in Christ.

Incorrect. Paul is talking about "all men in Christ," which is a technical term for him. It is a shorthand phrase indicating a person who believes in Jesus Christ, follows his teaching, is born again, and is sanctified by the Holy Spirit. In Paul's vocabulary, the phrase "in Christ" indicates a true, genuine believer who has been tested and sanctified.

You do not have an understanding of the Incarnation at all.

The text has nothing to do with the incarnation.

It of necessity does. If is was ONLY believers would it not say He died for the godly?

Paul is speaking historically. We all begin as ungodly people.

If He died for the ungodly, then those thar are godly are those He did not die for.

No, that does not follow.

Context matters. That is also why the word "world" is used because He also gave life to this world.

In this context, "world" doesn't indicate each and every person.

I notice you did not address the universal texts at all. I Cor 15:53-54, Col 1:20, II Cor 5:18-19, II Tim 1:10, Heb 92, Heb 9:14-16, I John 2:2, John 1:29, John 4:42, I John 4:14.

These are not universal texts. Sorry. As I said earlier, you are ignoring clues in the text in order to support your universalism.

For whatever reason neither you nor Brightfame52 have any knowledge about the Incarnation.

The incarnation is not at issue here.

You treat texts as if they are all about the believers existence when it is about correcting the fall so we can actually speak of having believers.

The texts are about believers.

You totally deny his resurrection which accomplished giving life to the world.

Not to each and every person in the world. The term "world" doesn't indicate universalism; it indicates inclusion: to the Jew first and also to the Greek. Understand?

One of the translations uses the word, "quickened" where it states Christ gave life. Quicken ONLY refers to physical life. It never referes to what is called spiritual life or our relationship with Christ.

Agreed.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Vs 6 is a transitional vs. He has been speaking about believers, being justified by faith.

No. The Apostle uses the first four chapters of Romans to argue that we are justified by faith. Romans 5 is his concluding remarks. The chapter starts out with a present participle, "having been justified by faith . . ." which is a summary statement that implies several features of being saved. The most significant implication of being justified by faith is the resultant salvation.

Take another look at the opening line of his concluding remarks.

Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ . . .

The term "peace" in this context does mean "tranquility", it refers to enemies that have reconciled. The term refers to the absence of enmity and hostility with God. Paul argues that those who have been justified by faith in Jesus Christ, have made peace with God. Paul is not arguing for a universal declaration of peace; rather, he is arguing that God reconciles with those who believe his son and become his disciples. Only these people, exclusively, have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Understand?

Beginning in the next paragraph (verse 6), Paul argues from the greater to the lesser -- if God sent his son to die for those who were his enemies, then what would keep him from granting salvation to his friends? Paul isn't suggesting that Jesus Christ died for all of God's enemies. His argument assumes the point he made earlier. He is talking about those who were justified by faith and became God's friends.

Paul is not arguing for universal peace, or universal reconciliation. His point is focused on Jesus Christ and those who find anmity with God through faith.

Yes, but Paul also gives you the reason why there is the opportunity for any human being to reespond to the call of the Holy Spirit. That reason is that God was in Christ reconciling THE WORLD to Himself.

Again, the term "world" takes its meaning from the context. Paul is focused on inclusivity. Since he is the Apostle to the Gentiles, when he speaks about "the world," he means to say, "not only Israel but also the other peoples and nations." However, his statement about "the world" is always qualified by a proviso. Jesus is the means to reconciliation for the world, provided that any particular individual is also justified by faith.

 

[Rightglory]

Like I said, there is but one explanation why some unbelieving enemies are reconciled to God, and another set of the same are condemned and under Gods wrath, and thats Christ didnt die for the condemned portion of mankind. See there is a world of people reconciled to God 2 Cor 5:19 and then there is a world of people God condemns 1 Cor 11:32

Based on your view, which does not align with historical Christianity. You clearly deny the Incarnation of Christ. You have no understanding of the doctrine which is one of the historical hallmarks along with the Trinity for Christianity.
You sounding like an old record. You have not address the 20 other texts I posted all supporting the Incarnation of Christ and what was accomplished by Christ by His death and resurrection.

 

[Rightglory]

You said that Paul wasn't talking about a subset of people in Romans 5. He is and apparently you missed it.

Chapter 5 opens with "Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God . . ." The topic of discussion in Romans 5 is limited to those who have been justified by faith.
While the intended audience is one important factor in our understanding of a text, it isn't the only one.

Not only did I imply it, I stated it explicitly. Our understanding of chapter 5 is informed by the opening verse.

It starts out that way, however he emphasizes that we have that ability to be justified by faith because of the hope we now have. That hope is described in vs 6-21. It is speaking about the work the Incarnated Christ did for mankind. Without the world being reconciled there is no hope. There would be no eternity for mankind. Your faith would be meaningless.

I disagree. Paul employs the phrase "in Christ" to indicate anyone who has become Jesus' disciple.

Incorrect. The phrase "in Christ" has nothing to do with the incarnation.

So you say but scripture says to the contrary. I Cor 15:12-22 is speaking explicitly about all the dead and Christ giving life to all those dead.
All those dead will be raised immortal and incorruptible in the last day, I Cor 15:53

Your explanation would make your view universalism on sterroids. If all men died as a result of the condemnation of death to Adam, then every human being would also be saved objectively. There would be no need for hell. There would be no need for a walk of faith either.

Incorrect. Paul is talking about "all men in Christ," which is a technical term for him. It is a shorthand phrase indicating a person who believes in Jesus Christ, follows his teaching, is born again, and is sanctified by the Holy Spirit. In Paul's vocabulary, the phrase "in Christ" indicates a true, genuine believer who has been tested and sanctified.

The text has nothing to do with the incarnation.

every text I cited has to do with the Incarnation directly or gives an explanation of its consequence.
You may be correct regarding believers who are baptized are also said to be IN Christ. But that is a different context. I Cor 15:21-22 is not speaking about baptism nor believers even but mankind.

Paul is speaking historically. We all begin as ungodly people.

yes, so why do you separate. Every human being is ungodly, and Christ died for all those ungodly people so that He could call of them to repentance. So man could choose his journey, to heaven or hell.

No, that does not follow.

In this context, "world" doesn't indicate each and every person.

you are correct. it means the physical world, Christ redeemed the physical world. The physical world suffered death as well as mankind. After all man was made from the earth. It is why we can speak of a new heaven and a new earth. The world, mankind and Christ's human nature are all consubstantial.

These are not universal texts. Sorry. As I said earlier, you are ignoring clues in the text in order to support your universalism.

I'm not supporting the doctrine of Universalism. I explaining the universal work of Christ through His Incarnation in redeeming the world from death. Heb 2:9, Heb 2:14-16.
This is why you are so confused on this doctrine. You apparently have never studied the doctrine of the Incarnation of Christ. By which He assumed our human nature through the Virgin Mary.

The texts are about believers.

Not to each and every person in the world. The term "world" doesn't indicate universalism; it indicates inclusion: to the Jew first and also to the Greek. Understand?

No, it means the physical world. The universe that God created out of nothing. He redeemed it from destruction, death.

Agreed.

Amazing, You have been denying Christ giving life to all men, Now you agree with it. We seem to have accomplished something.

 

[Rightglory]

No. The Apostle uses the first four chapters of Romans to argue that we are justified by faith. Romans 5 is his concluding remarks. The chapter starts out with a present participle, "having been justified by faith . . ." which is a summary statement that implies several features of being saved. The most significant implication of being justified by faith is the resultant salvation.

Take another look at the opening line of his concluding remarks.

Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ . . .

The term "peace" in this context does mean "tranquility", it refers to enemies that have reconciled. The term refers to the absence of enmity and hostility with God. Paul argues that those who have been justified by faith in Jesus Christ, have made peace with God. Paul is not arguing for a universal declaration of peace; rather, he is arguing that God reconciles with those who believe his son and become his disciples. Only these people, exclusively, have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Understand?

So far, its the context that follows that you depart from.

Beginning in the next paragraph (verse 6), Paul argues from the greater to the lesser -- if God sent his son to die for those who were his enemies, then what would keep him from granting salvation to his friends? Paul isn't suggesting that Jesus Christ died for all of God's enemies. His argument assumes the point he made earlier. He is talking about those who were justified by faith and became God's friends.

Paul is not arguing for universal peace, or universal reconciliation. His point is focused on Jesus Christ and those who find anmity with God through faith.


Again, the term "world" takes its meaning from the context. Paul is focused on inclusivity. Since he is the Apostle to the Gentiles, when he speaks about "the world," he means to say, "not only Israel but also the other peoples and nations." However, his statement about "the world" is always qualified by a proviso. Jesus is the means to reconciliation for the world, provided that any particular individual is also justified by faith.

This is what you are totally missing. You cannot have a Christ dying and being resurrection for only some human beings. It is an absolute impossibility given the meaning of the incarnation of Christ. Until you understand the Incarnation you will never understand the texts that deal specifically with the Incarnation. We have gone over this before, Next you have vs 12 where death is described as effecting all men. All men became mortal through Adam's human nature. This is physical death dust to dust. Then in vs 18 he uses an equation, As death came to all men through Adam, so the one righteous act of one gave life to all men. A mortal nature to an immortal nature. How clear and Incarnational can one state it. This is repeated very explicitly again in I Cor 15:21-22, same equation. I am assuming you know what an equation is.
All the other texts I cited are either stating directly the result of the Incarnation, such as Heb 2:9 as does Heb 2:14-16. Or the more general as I John 4:14, John 4:42. The word World is literally the physical world. It cannot be more clear.

 

[brightfame52]

Reconciliation by Christs death is not just unilateral !

The terrible mistake of false religion is to believe and teach that Christs death is only unilateral in its effect, but that is a grave mistake.

You see, that makes the death of Christ falling short of reconciling , bringing man to God, which the scripture teaches that it does. Peter writes of the death of Christ this fact 1 Pet 3:18

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

See, His suffering for our sins was for the purpose of bringing us to God ! He by it, leads us to God. It also :

1. to render one acceptable to God
   
   It does that which God told cain that if he did well he would be accepted Gen 4:7
   
   7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted?
   
   Well Christ death, for all whom He suffered and died for causes them to be accepted of God, without them doing anything !
   
   Christ's reconciling death will also cause us to come to God in being saved to the uttermost Heb 7:25
   
   25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
   
   Notice " them that come to God BY HIM ! Meaning His reconciling work which brings them to God 1 Pet 3:18 !
   
   Paul writes also Col 1: 21,22a
   
   21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled. How ?
   
   22a 22 In the body of his flesh through death,
   
   So those who teach that Christ's death effected only a unilateral reconciliation, they teach lies, they teach ignorantly, and do Christ's death accomplishment a disservice ! 13

 

[brightfame52]

@Rightglory

That is just amazing. Is this what Calvin wrote as well?

I dont know, maybe you need to go to calvin and read what he wrote.

 

[brightfame52]

@Rightglory

It is speaking about the Incarnation of Christ by which Christ assumed our human nature.

The human nature of a particular seed only, not all mankind Heb 2:16-17

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

ὅθεν ὤφειλεν κατὰ πάντα τοῖς ἀδελφοῖς ὁμοιωθῆναι ἵνα ἐλεήμων γένηται καὶ πιστὸς ἀρχιερεὺς τὰ πρὸς τὸν θεόν εἰς τὸ ἱλάσκεσθαι τὰς ἁμαρτίας τοῦ λαοῦ

Now is all mankind the seed of Abraham ? Yes or No Reconciliation was made specifically for that people. In the original the people has the definite article, its a definite specific people for whom sins He dealt with, not all mankind.

 

[Behold]

Reconciliation was made specifically for that people. In the original the people has the definite article, its a definite specific people for whom sins He dealt with, not all mankind.

New International Version
that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

New Living Translation
For God was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself, no longer counting people’s sins against them. And he gave us this wonderful message of reconciliation.

English Standard Version
that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.

Berean Standard Bible
that God was reconciling the world to Himself in Christ, not counting men’s trespasses against them. And He has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

Berean Literal Bible
how that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not reckoning their trespasses to them, and having put into us the word of reconciliation.

King James Bible
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

New King James Version
that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

New American Standard Bible
namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their wrongdoings against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

NASB 1995
namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

NASB 1977
namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

Legacy Standard Bible
namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their transgressions against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

Amplified Bible
that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting people’s sins against them [but canceling them]. And He has committed to us the message of reconciliation [that is, restoration to favor with God].

Christian Standard Bible
That is, in Christ, God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and he has committed the message of reconciliation to us.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
That is, in Christ, God was reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed the message of reconciliation to us.

American Standard Version
to wit, that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself, not reckoning unto them their trespasses, and having committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
For God was in The Messiah- he who reconciled the universe with his Majesty, and he has not accounted their sins to them and has placed in us our own message of the reconciliation.

Contemporary English Version
What we mean is that God was in Christ, offering peace and forgiveness to the people of this world. And he has given us the work of sharing his message about peace.

 

[JBO]

So far, its the context that follows that you depart from.


This is what you are totally missing. You cannot have a Christ dying and being resurrection for only some human beings. It is an absolute impossibility given the meaning of the incarnation of Christ. Until you understand the Incarnation you will never understand the texts that deal specifically with the Incarnation. We have gone over this before, Next you have vs 12 where death is described as effecting all men. All men became mortal through Adam's human nature. This is physical death dust to dust. Then in vs 18 he uses an equation, As death came to all men through Adam, so the one righteous act of one gave life to all men. A mortal nature to an immortal nature. How clear and Incarnational can one state it. This is repeated very explicitly again in I Cor 15:21-22, same equation. I am assuming you know what an equation is.
All the other texts I cited are either stating directly the result of the Incarnation, such as Heb 2:9 as does Heb 2:14-16. Or the more general as I John 4:14, John 4:42. The word World is literally the physical world. It cannot be more clear.

Romans 5:12 is not speaking of physical death. Physical death is not the result of sin. Physical death is an integral part of creation. There is nothing in this entire physical universe that is immortal, and certainly not man. That fact is obvious because God put the tree of life in the Garden to offset the natural event of physical death. So long as Adam and Eve were in the Garden, they had access to the fruit of that tree, thus preventing them from dying physically. Once they had sinned, that was no longer a good thing for man. Living forever in a condition of separation from the original close relationship with God was not good. God sent them out of the Garden to keep that from happening (Gen 3:22). Romans 5:12 is speaking about spiritual death. The wages of sin is not physical death but rather spiritual death.

Also your interpretation of Romans 5:18 is wrong. It is not the same as 1 Corinthians 15:21-22. Romans 5:18 is speaking of the spiritual, while 1 Corinthians 15:21-22 is speaking of the physical.

In Romans 5:18, Paul says ", ...as one trespass led to condemnation for all men..." Clearly the condemnation is in reference to the spiritual. Most interpret that as original sin. That is, man comes into this world eternally condemned. If that was all that Paul said there, then indeed mankind would be condemned from birth and be eternally condemned forever. However, Paul didn't leave it there. In the last half of that same verse, Paul says "....one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men." Now then just as the reference of condemnation due to Adam's trespass was in reference to all men, i.e., all mankind at birth, so also the reference of justification and life for all men due to Christ's righteousness was in reference to all men, i.e., all mankind at birth.

Thus what verse 18 is telling us is that what might have been a condition of original sin for all mankind at birth is instead a condition of original grace for all mankind at birth. One of the very important results of the cross of Jesus was to set aside, to negate totally, the affect of Adam's sin upon the newborn. Verse 18 is speaking only of the spirits of all men at birth. It is not speaking of the spirit of all men due to their own individual trespasses and sin. Paul speaks to that in verses 20 and 21 and continues into the next chapter where in verses 3 and 4 Paul describes the effects of the cross of Jesus upon the spirits of those who have been baptized into Christ.

Rom 6:3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.

The "newness of life" is none other than regeneration, that is, being born again. The "newness of life" is the life of the spirit freed from the eternal condemnation due to sin.

 

[brightfame52]

New International Version
that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

New Living Translation
For God was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself, no longer counting people’s sins against them. And he gave us this wonderful message of reconciliation.

English Standard Version
that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.

Berean Standard Bible
that God was reconciling the world to Himself in Christ, not counting men’s trespasses against them. And He has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

Berean Literal Bible
how that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not reckoning their trespasses to them, and having put into us the word of reconciliation.

King James Bible
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

New King James Version
that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

New American Standard Bible
namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their wrongdoings against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

NASB 1995
namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

NASB 1977
namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

Legacy Standard Bible
namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their transgressions against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

Amplified Bible
that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting people’s sins against them [but canceling them]. And He has committed to us the message of reconciliation [that is, restoration to favor with God].

Christian Standard Bible
That is, in Christ, God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and he has committed the message of reconciliation to us.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
That is, in Christ, God was reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed the message of reconciliation to us.

American Standard Version
to wit, that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself, not reckoning unto them their trespasses, and having committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
For God was in The Messiah- he who reconciled the universe with his Majesty, and he has not accounted their sins to them and has placed in us our own message of the reconciliation.

Contemporary English Version
What we mean is that God was in Christ, offering peace and forgiveness to the people of this world. And he has given us the work of sharing his message about peace.

Its The same people as in Heb 2:16-17. BTW some of those modern translations butchers the word of God, one needs to be very careful with them

 

[Behold]

Physical death is not the result of sin. Physical death is an integral part of creation.

According to the Bible, death is caused by Adam's sin.

Romans says

Paul teaching.

""""Wherefore, as by one man (1st Adam) sin entered into the world, and DEATH BY SIN.. = ; and so DEATH = passed upon all people""