The Galilean wedding is the model for the pre-trib rapture

[The Light]

The Second Coming is a theological construct that should only refer to the next time Jesus walks around on the earth, like He did in the first century.

This is also incorrect brother. At the second coming when all eyes see the coming of the Lord..........Jesus remains in the clouds and sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth.

They all return to heaven for the marriage supper and the wrath of God......... The Day of the Lord ........begins.

When Jesus set His feet on the mount of Olives, that is the second advent.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Quote:
"""Actually it does. We are told that the Son of Man comes from heaven to gather his People, to deliver his People, and to destroy the Man of Sin. This is the moment at which God's Kingdom is inaugurated."""

Actually that is the second coming on white horses in Rev 19. The saints already in heaven during the trib. .

The saints are not, in my opinion, in heaven during the *Reign of Antichrist* (not "the Tribulation"), unless it is the *dead* saints! ;) The "Great Tribulation" is, in my view, the NT era in which the Jewish People are punished in the Diaspora. The dead saints are in heaven with the Lord now!

If you are referring to mat 24,"after tge trib", go back and reread it.

I memorized Matt 24 back in the early 70s. ;)

Angels gather from heaven.
In the pretrib rapture Jesus gathers from earth.

Angels do, of course, come from heaven. They travel from one end of heaven to the other searching the earth for those who belong to the Lord. There is no Pretrib Rapture, in my view. And there is no mention of one in the Bible--the texts taken to prove this are not proofs at all, but only eisegesis.

But you left out the gathering before the flood/ trib around vs 38 or so.

The Flood is not used as a choreography detailing the exact sequence of the 2nd Coming. It is used as an example of God's Wrath without all of the inserted itinerary. This is not an exegesis at all. The assumptions being made are not doctrinally asserted in the Scriptures. There is no inference that the Flood account projects a Pretrib Rapture.

Noah escaped from God's wrath poured out on wicked people en mass. At the 2nd Coming, God's People will escape God's all-encompassing eternal wrath through the resurrection. There is no inference in the Flood account that Noah represents dead or living saints. He escapes an earthly judgment. The saints at Christ's Return escape a heavenly judgment.

Matt 10.28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Heb 12.22 But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.
25 See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven?

There we see the gathering pretrib, with zero setting of the end of the trib.
Rev 14:14 is kinda a bonus where we see Jews gathered,DURING THE TRIB, and that gathering is neither the main rapture nor anywhere near the "After the trib" gathering FROM HEAVEN, BY ANGELS.

Rev 14.14 I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one like a son of man[b] with a crown of gold on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand. 15 Then another angel came out of the temple and called in a loud voice to him who was sitting on the cloud, “Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.” 16 So he who was seated on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested.

Matt 13.30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’”...
37 He answered, “The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the people of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.
40 “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.

This "Harvest" of the Son of Man is not "during the Trib/Reign of Antichrist." It is the classic 2nd Coming of the Son of Man to judge the wicked, deliver the saints, and establish God's Kingdom at the *end of the age.*

In John 6 we are told that the saints are raised up on the "last day." This is the time of the harvest of the saints, as well as the time when God treads the winepress of His wrath.

Rev 14.19 The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God’s wrath.

 

[Randy Kluth]

The Day of the Lord is the same from Genesis to Revelation. No human needs to change the meaning for context.

On the contrary, the Lord's day is a very generic term. It can be used for Sunday, or it can be used for any day in which the Lord chooses to bless or curse in a magnified way. In eschatological contexts it may refer to an era of peace or to a specific day at which the Son of Man returns from heaven. Just asserting things proves nothing.

The Second Coming is a theological construct that should only refer to the next time Jesus walks around on the earth, like He did in the first century.

You're way off the mark. You think the "2nd Coming" is Jesus' 1st Coming? ;)

While you may not be amil, you don't allow the physical presence of Jesus on the earth. That is not a Second Coming you adhere to. That is only a change of who lives on the earth, and who does not live on the earth.

I of course believe Jesus physically returns to earth. I just don't think he stays here in that form until the end of the Millennial Age. Otherwise, we will have immortal people and mortal people living together on the same earth. And we can't have that. I'd rather believe in Amil!

Why would no one prior to the Flood return to live on the earth in mass numbers, after that judgement?

There was no Church and no Israel before the Flood.

Why did the OT redeemed not return and live on the earth after the Cross?

Nobody can return to earth, once dead, unless they return as immortals. And nobody gets immortality until we all get immortality at the 2nd Coming.

The Day of the Lord is no different than the other two events, yet you have all those from even before the Flood, suddenly return and now live on the earth for the last 1,000 years.

I have no idea what you're talking about? I don't have the saints from all ages do anything more than make a cameo appearance at the 2nd Coming. Their purpose for physically returning in immortal bodies is so that they may rule another thousand years without having to remain here physically. This is sheer speculation on my part.

Revelation 21 clearly points out that all those removed since the Flood only return in the New Jerusalem.

No, the saints return from heaven with the Saints. They are immortalized in the twinkling of an eye and return with him on metaphorical horses to capture the planet back for God. We'll be staking our flag pole on the earth, on every continent, until Christ's flag is waving forevermore in the winds of God's eternal Spirit.

 

[WPM]

Leviticus 23
23 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

24 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation.

25 Ye shall do no servile work therein: but ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord.

Numbers 29
1 And in the seventh month, on the first day of the month, ye shall have an holy convocation; ye shall do no servile work: it is a day of blowing the trumpets unto you.

This is bordering on the ridiculous. You cannot substantiate any of your claims. You are all just hitting us with Pretrib buzz phrases you have been taught.

Where do you get these "100 trumpet blasts" in Revelation or Scripture?

 

[Timtofly]

You just repeat what people say to you. That is hilarious. You are completely clueless.


I didn't say it wasn't. Here's your horrible reading comprehension skills at work again. You can't be taken seriously. At all.

You said Rome was fallen when he wrote Revelation.

And the 5th kingdom after Rome was fallen as well in the first century. Are you not going by the continuation of Daniel 2 in Revelation, or making up one of thousands of private interpretations out there?

 

[Timtofly]

What you said is absolutely incorrect. The Day of the Lord is the 1-year wrath of God. The millennial kingdom begins AFTER the Day of the Lord.

Peter explained it to you in 2 Peter 3.

Then you come along and make up your own definition. Then call Peter absolutely incorrect. Where did Peter say the Day of the Lord was a year long?

 

[covenantee]

The post was not about those in heaven.

The post was about Amillennialist deceived by Satan on the earth.

Who said anything about God setting up a throne on the earth?

God has always had a throne called the GWT. Has nothing to do with a kingdom on the earth.

Jesus is going to sit on a throne in Jerusalem, but that is not the Kingdom of God. That is Jesus reigning over Israel.

I accept Jesus when He said He would come and sit on a throne in Jerusalem. That John wrote would have a length of 1,000 years.

My post was not about those in heaven.

My post was about premils deceived by Satan on the earth.

Who said anything about God setting up a throne on the earth?

Jesus has been seated on David's throne in Heaven since His resurrection. Acts 2:29-32 From it, He reigns over His Kingdom on earth.

Jesus is not going to sit on a throne in Jerusalem, because He already reigns from David's throne in Heaven over the Kingdom of God in His People the Church. Colossians 1:12,13

I accept Jesus, who will not be sitting on a throne in Jerusalem, because He has been seated on the throne of David in Heaven since His Resurrection, a length already approaching 2,000 years.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You said Rome was fallen when he wrote Revelation.

LOL. I did not say that. Not even close. Your reading comprehension skills are the worst I've ever seen in my life. Please take an English class or two. It is apparently not your first language. Show me where I said that Rome was fallen at the time John wrote the book of Revelation. Good luck with that.

It says five had fallen, one is, and one was yet to come. Rome was the one that "is" at that time.

Revelation 17:And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

The one that "is" at the time John wrote the book was the Roman empire. Read that again at least 10 times so you don't forget what I said and misrepresent what I say again.

 

[Timtofly]

This is also incorrect brother. At the second coming when all eyes see the coming of the Lord..........Jesus remains in the clouds and sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth.

They all return to heaven for the marriage supper and the wrath of God......... The Day of the Lord ........begins.

When Jesus set His feet on the mount of Olives, that is the second advent.

Jesus sets His feet on the earth to be the Prince to come at the 6th Seal. That is the only definition of a second coming on the earth. The Second Coming is not to the air. In fact no coming is just to the air. How is that found in any verse in God's Word?

The church is still the bride a thousand years later. The marriage supper is for Israel.

The rapture is not stated to be for a marriage supper, not even by Paul.

The Olivet Discourse in Matthew 24 and 25 while addressed to the church is still about the dynamic between God and Israel. People have conflated Matthew 25 and those parables as addressing the church, but the church was never addressed via parables. Jesus explained the parables to His disciples in private. Jesus did not explain the parables in Matthew 25.

The separation of sheep and goats is still only about Israel. The virgins are still only about Israel. Some of Israel will be gathered with the church. Others of Israel will be chosen as sheep, after the rapture and Second Coming at the 6th Seal. If you cannot accept that at the 6th Seal, Jesus comes and sits on His glorious throne per Matthew 25, you do not yet understand the dynamic of Jesus with Israel after the church has been removed. The sheep are not raptured. The sheep are taken by angels to the sea of glass, while Jesus is on the earth sitting in Judgment, and gathering the final harvest also found in Matthew 13.

The symbolic harvest of the sickle in Revelation 14 is just showing that the final harvest is over, and the 7th Trumpet complete.

If Satan is given a 42 month extension, the 7th Trumpet will not be completed. Jesus and the 144k leave on white horses as that is how they return 42 months later. Still only about Jesus and Israel, not the church. Revelation 19 is not about the church. It is about the defeat of Satan, and all of humanity who all have the mark. Which would have been resolved back in chapter 14.

The only reason why there is a 42 month extension is for those who choose to be beheaded. That is their acceptance to remain in the Lamb's book of life, instead of being removed and given the mark. Those beheaded are the many that are confirmed by God via the Covenant of God's Atonement as prophecied by Gabriel in Daniel 9:27. These beheaded are the gleanings after the final harvest is over. The abomination of desolation lasts for 42 months, then the 7 vials are poured out, and Jesus and the 144k return to Mount Megiddo to reclaim The Kingdom from Satan.

Revelation 19 is not to the Mount of Olives. Zechariah 14 does not happen in Revelation 19. Zechariah 14 happens at the 6th Seal, so Jesus can set up His throne and temple in Jerusalem. Neither that Temple nor Jerusalem is destroyed again completely after that point. That throne and Temple will be the Millennial Kingdom center of Christ as King's rule on the earth.

We see two verses talking about that city:

"And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven."

"And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found."

Neither claim Jerusalem is destroyed, but the fact that it will no longer be trampled under foot by Gentiles. Another point this is talking about Israel as a nation and not the church. If these verses were about the church, talking about Gentiles would not make sense.

 

[Timtofly]

On the contrary, the Lord's day is a very generic term. It can be used for Sunday, or it can be used for any day in which the Lord chooses to bless or curse in a magnified way. In eschatological contexts it may refer to an era of peace or to a specific day at which the Son of Man returns from heaven. Just asserting things proves nothing.

You're way off the mark. You think the "2nd Coming" is Jesus' 1st Coming? ;)

I of course believe Jesus physically returns to earth. I just don't think he stays here in that form until the end of the Millennial Age. Otherwise, we will have immortal people and mortal people living together on the same earth. And we can't have that. I'd rather believe in Amil!

There was no Church and no Israel before the Flood.

Nobody can return to earth, once dead, unless they return as immortals. And nobody gets immortality until we all get immortality at the 2nd Coming.

I have no idea what you're talking about? I don't have the saints from all ages do anything more than make a cameo appearance at the 2nd Coming. Their purpose for physically returning in immortal bodies is so that they may rule another thousand years without having to remain here physically. This is sheer speculation on my part.

No, the saints return from heaven with the Saints. They are immortalized in the twinkling of an eye and return with him on metaphorical horses to capture the planet back for God. We'll be staking our flag pole on the earth, on every continent, until Christ's flag is waving forevermore in the winds of God's eternal Spirit.

The Day of the Lord is not the Lord's Day.

The Sabbath is the Day of the Lord.

The Lord's Day is connected to resurrection Sunday or the first day of the week.

Jesus can be on the earth, while the church is already in Paradise, during the time of Jacob's trouble. I never said the church has to be on the earth. You did. You claim the glorified church is on the earth during the Tribulation, because the Tribulation is after the 5th Seal. You never said the Tribulation was prior to the 5th Seal. Why would the church be glorified in heaven still waiting for the rest to be glorified later?

The putting on of white robes can only be the church glorified. There is no other reference in Revelation to that end.

The church is not on earth after the 5th Seal, period, until the church descends after the NHNE in the New Jerusalem. You are correct in that sons of God no longer dwell with normal humans, as you allege with human terms, mortals and immortals.

The humans on earth are no longer mortal in a state of death either. They are without sin, because sin has been removed. Why can no one see the literal point of this verse:

"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy."

Or this verse:

"But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."

Or this verse:

"And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."

No one will be in Adam's dead state you call mortal, not even the rest of the nations. No one can be born into sin per Isaiah 65.

If a person disobeys or breaks a law during the Millennial Kingdom, that is it, instant death, no repeat offenders.

The Kingdom did not happen at the First Coming of Christ as Messiah. Yet there was a major change. The OT redeemed were no longer souls in sheol. They received a physical, first resurrection, and started to enjoy all physical Paradise had to offer. They were not glorified as complete sons of God. They were free of sin, and free of living under any law. They were the Kingdom of God without national distinction, nor would they procreate as, all that procreation was for, was subduing the earth, not necessary to subdue heaven.

For 2 Millennia, the church has been added to daily, and all have been physically enjoying Paradise. Now at the Second Coming, there is another major change. Those in Paradise, the church are glorified, now full sons of God. But the change is effected on earth as well. Adam's punishment is removed. Now the earth will be subdued by humanity without the bondage of sin getting in the way. But there is still the iron rod rule with Jesus personally sitting as the King over all the earth. A shepherd under full earthly duty, as the kingdom of heaven is now on earth, as the sons of God have been fully redeemed, and a kingdom in heaven is no longer necessary.

These kingdom terms have always been concerning the redemption of mankind, not that sons of God need a government over them.

 

[Timtofly]

My post was not about those in heaven.

My post was about premils deceived by Satan on the earth.

Who said anything about God setting up a throne on the earth?

Jesus has been seated on David's throne in Heaven since His resurrection. Acts 2:29-32 From it, He reigns over His Kingdom on earth.

Jesus is not going to sit on a throne in Jerusalem, because He already reigns from David's throne in Heaven over the Kingdom of God in His People the Church. Colossians 1:12,13

I accept Jesus, who will not be sitting on a throne in Jerusalem, because He has been seated on the throne of David in Heaven since His Resurrection, a length already approaching 2,000 years.

How was David ruling on a throne in heaven historically? Are you saying David has been physically in heaven for thousands of years?

 

[Timtofly]

LOL. I did not say that. Not even close. Your reading comprehension skills are the worst I've ever seen in my life. Please take an English class or two. It is apparently not your first language. Show me where I said that Rome was fallen at the time John wrote the book of Revelation. Good luck with that.

It says five had fallen, one is, and one was yet to come. Rome was the one that "is" at that time.

Revelation 17:And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

The one that "is" at the time John wrote the book was the Roman empire. Read that again at least 10 times so you don't forget what I said and misrepresent what I say again.

So how do you get Rome as the 6th when only Greece, Medes and Persians, and Babylon were the first 3?

Your math is atrocious. My reading comprehension is just fine, pointing out your atrocious math fail.

You have no 4th and 5th fallen Kingdom.

 

[covenantee]

How was David ruling on a throne in heaven historically? Are you saying David has been physically in heaven for thousands of years?

Is that what you think Acts 2:29-32 is referring to?

David's literal physical throne was destroyed thousands of years ago.

So what kind of throne do you think Acts 2:29-32 is referring to?

 

[jeffweeder]

So how do you get Rome as the 6th when only Greece, Medes and Persians, and Babylon were the first 3?

Your math is atrocious. My reading comprehension is just fine, pointing out your atrocious math fail.

You have no 4th and 5th fallen Kingdom.

Revelation 17:10
and they are seven kings: five of whom have fallen, one exists and is reigning; the other [the seventh] has not yet come, and when he does come, he must remain a little while.

At the time of writing who was reigning?

 

[The Light]

This is bordering on the ridiculous. You cannot substantiate any of your claims. You are all just hitting us with Pretrib buzz phrases you have been taught.

Where do you get these "100 trumpet blasts" in Revelation or Scripture?

I get a hundred blast because that is what happens on the Feast of Trumpets. And the last trumpet blast on the Feast of Trumpets is the "last trump"

 

[The Light]

Peter explained it to you in 2 Peter 3.

Then you come along and make up your own definition. Then call Peter absolutely incorrect. Where did Peter say the Day of the Lord was a year long?

Peter said that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. He did not say the Day of the Lord is 1000 years. The day of the Lord is the day of His vengeance and His vengeance is not a 1000 years long.

If you need me to post scriptures that a day can be considered a year in scripture, just ask.


If the following does not convince you that the Day of the Lord is not the millennial kingdom, I can add lots more scriptures. Just let me know.

Isaiah 13
6 Howl ye; for the day of the Lord is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.

Isaiah 13
9 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

Jeremiah 46
10 For this is the day of the Lord God of hosts, a day of vengeance, that he may avenge him of his adversaries: and the sword shall devour, and it shall be satiate and made drunk with their blood: for the Lord God of hosts hath a sacrifice in the north country by the river Euphrates.

Joel 1
Alas for the day! for the day of the Lord is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come.

Joel 2
11 And the Lord shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the Lord is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?

Amos 5
20 Shall not the day of the Lord be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?

The Day of the Lord begins when the 7th seal is opened and lasts for one year. The 7th seal is the wrath of God.

 

[The Light]

Jesus sets His feet on the earth to be the Prince to come at the 6th Seal.

Absolutely not. Jesus remains in the clouds at the 6th seal. Jesus comes for a harvest and then the 7th seal is opened. The 7th seal is the wrath of God.

Revelation 6
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

That is the only definition of a second coming on the earth. The Second Coming is not to the air. In fact no coming is just to the air. How is that found in any verse in God's Word?

It is found by looking

Rev 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

This is the harvest at the 6th seal. And then the wrath of God begins.

Rev 14
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

The church is still the bride a thousand years later. The marriage supper is for Israel.

The marriage is both for the Church and the seed of the woman which is the 12 tribes across the earth. Not those in the nation of Israel that flee to a place of protection.

The separation of sheep and goats is still only about Israel. The virgins are still only about Israel. Some of Israel will be gathered with the church. Others of Israel will be chosen as sheep, after the rapture and Second Coming at the 6th Seal.

There is a rapture and second coming at the 6th seal. Then the 7th seal is opened and the wrath of God begins. The wrath of God is the Day of the Lord, and that day is 1-year long.

If you cannot accept that at the 6th Seal, Jesus comes and sits on His glorious throne per Matthew 25, you do not yet understand the dynamic of Jesus with Israel after the church has been removed. The sheep are not raptured. The sheep are taken by angels to the sea of glass, while Jesus is on the earth sitting in Judgment, and gathering the final harvest also found in Matthew 13.

Jesus remains in the clouds at the sixth seal. It is the second coming when all eyes see the coming of the Lord. All return to heaven which is why you see a great multitude in heaven, some of which came out of Great Tribulation. They go to the marriage supper as seen in Rev 19 and then return to earth with the armies of heaven for Armageddon.

The symbolic harvest of the sickle in Revelation 14 is just showing that the final harvest is over, and the 7th Trumpet complete.

Nope. The harvest of Rev 14 occurs at the 6th seal. It is the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24. Then the wrath of God begins.

Rev 6
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Rev 14
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

If Satan is given a 42 month extension, the 7th Trumpet will not be completed.

There is no If. There is no 42 month extension. At the 7th trumpet Christ sets up His Millennial kingdom. This is when He sets His feet on the mount of Olives. This is the second advent.

Jesus and the 144k leave on white horses as that is how they return 42 months later. Still only about Jesus and Israel, not the church. Revelation 19 is not about the church. It is about the defeat of Satan, and all of humanity who all have the mark. Which would have been resolved back in chapter 14.

The 144,000 are first fruits and are in heaven before the 5th seal.

The only reason why there is a 42 month extension is for those who choose to be beheaded. That is their acceptance to remain in the Lamb's book of life, instead of being removed and given the mark. Those beheaded are the many that are confirmed by God via the Covenant of God's Atonement as prophecied by Gabriel in Daniel 9:27. These beheaded are the gleanings after the final harvest is over. The abomination of desolation lasts for 42 months, then the 7 vials are poured out, and Jesus and the 144k return to Mount Megiddo to reclaim The Kingdom from Satan.

None of this is scriptural. If you think it is, please provide scriptural support.

Revelation 19 is not to the Mount of Olives. Zechariah 14 does not happen in Revelation 19. Zechariah 14 happens at the 6th Seal, so Jesus can set up His throne and temple in Jerusalem. Neither that Temple nor Jerusalem is destroyed again completely after that point. That throne and Temple will be the Millennial Kingdom center of Christ as King's rule on the earth.'

'Nope. Wrath begins when the 7th seal is opened with the sounding of the 1st trumpet. The day of the Lords last one year.

We see two verses talking about that city:

"And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven."

"And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found."

Neither claim Jerusalem is destroyed, but the fact that it will no longer be trampled under foot by Gentiles. Another point this is talking about Israel as a nation and not the church. If these verses were about the church, talking about Gentiles would not make sense.

I'm not following your point but it is late.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

So how do you get Rome as the 6th when only Greece, Medes and Persians, and Babylon were the first 3?

You're obviously missing 2 there because John very specifically said that 5 were already fallen. Why not accept that John knew more than you about this whether you understand how 5 kingdoms had already fallen at that point or not?

Your lack of trust that John knew what he was talking about is disturbing. You should be ashamed of yourself for trying to change what he explicitly said. Not only did he explicitly say that five had fallen, but he also said "ONE IS". You change that to "ONE WILL BE IN THE FUTURE". Such nonsense and dishonesty. Have you no shame at all? You blatantly change scripture and have no conscience about doing so. What was said about doing that with the book of Revelation?

Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

If you are purposely changing the text to fit your doctrine, as it appears you are, then you are playing with fire. I hope it's the case instead that you're not doing it intentionally and you are just being very ignorant.

Your math is atrocious.

Your understanding of John saying "5 have fallen" is atrocious. You turn 5 into 3. What a joke. Terrible. And your understanding of the word "is" is atrocious. John said "one IS, not "one WILL BE in the future". You're changing the scripture. Just because you don't know the identification of the other 2 kingdoms that had fallen doesn't mean there can't be two other previously fallen kingdoms.

My reading comprehension is just fine, pointing out your atrocious math fail.

You have no 4th and 5th fallen Kingdom.

Why didn't you give me a chance to explain before deciding that I supposedly "have no 4th and 5th fallen kingdom"? Even if I didn't, it wouldn't matter because, unlike you, I would just assume there were two other kingdoms because John said so. I don't need to know what they were in order to know that 5 had already fallen. Because John said so very explicitly. I trust John to have written the truth, unlike you.

But, despite the fact that it doesn't matter if I can identify the other 2 fallen kingdoms or not (since we should just trust that John knew what he was saying since he was inspired by God), I do have an opinion on that. I believe that the other 2 kingdoms are Egypt and Assyria, which preceded the Babylonian empire.

So, the 5 fallen kingdoms were Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Media-Persia, and Greece. The one that existed at the time John wrote the book ("one is") was obviously Rome. I couldn't care less if you agree with me or not, but at least I agree with John that 5 kingdoms had fallen as of the time he wrote the book and one existed at the time ("one is") and the seventh kingdom obviously would come after the one existing at the time (Rome) fell.

 

[WPM]

I get a hundred blast because that is what happens on the Feast of Trumpets. And the last trumpet blast on the Feast of Trumpets is the "last trump"

Scripture?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I get a hundred blast because that is what happens on the Feast of Trumpets. And the last trumpet blast on the Feast of Trumpets is the "last trump"

Scripture?

I can't wait to see this. ;)