The Galilean wedding is the model for the pre-trib rapture

[Spiritual Israelite]

1. It's in verse 24. It doesn't mention the church par se but it says thy people, or iow, Believers.

Daniel's people were the Israelites. It doesn't mention the church at all in Daniel 9:24. Not explicitly nor implicitly.

2. That's in verse 26.

So, you're saying the tribulation is in verse 26.

Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

So, if this is describing the tribulation then it relates directly to "the city and the sanctuary" being destroyed. And it's talking about things related to the Messiah here, such as Him being cut off after the "threescore and two weeks" end. So, with that in mind, there is no reason to think that this is talking about anything except for the city of Jerusalem and the sanctuary that existed when the Messiah, Jesus, was cut off. That is the context. So, with that in mind, what else could this be speaking of except for the destruction of Jerusalem and its temple/sanctuary in 70 AD? Jesus said that would happen (Luke 19:41-44, Matthew 24:1-2, Mark 13:1-2, Luke 21:6-7;20-24), so what reason is there to not think that Jesus had this prophecy from Daniel in mind when He talked about the temple buildings and the city of His day being destroyed?

 

[Randy Kluth]

You're mistaken.

Regardless of our disagreement on this subject, I'm on your side with respect to standing in the Christian faith. We're one army, and we will prevail against the gates of death. Thank you for sharing our common faith! God bless your every effort to advance the cause of God's word and the Gospel of Christian Salvation.

 

[MA2444]

You are voicing mere opinion here without supporting it with hard Scripture. This exemplifies why so many are abandoning Pretrib today.

What Scripture says the rapture is "imminent"?
Prove that there is no scripture or prophecies that needs fulfilled before He returns for His bride"?

There isnt a single scripture that says "the rapture is imminent" like you want it to say. I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you...??

To get a Pretrib rapture out of this passage would require us to assume that the “wrath to come” is actually a 7-year tribulation. However, there is no suggestion of that in the text. The “wrath to come” here is the judgment of God, when Jesus destroys the wicked with fire at the end. What delivers us from that awful fate is Jesus. He is presented here as our hope of deliverance. In salvation we enter into a relationship with Him, this enables us to escape the wrath God has for the wicked.



Where is a rapture mentioned in Revelation 3:10?
Where is a 7 yr trib mentioned in Revelation 3:10?
Where is a 3rd coming mentioned in Revelation 3:10?

If one is to read this portion of Scripture in its most straight-forward and literal way it seems clear that this is specifically speaking to the local church in Philadelphia (Asia Minor) in A.D. 96. There is no way you would instinctively relate it to some end-time global Church prior to the coming of the Lord.

Pretribulationists miss (or ignore) the fact that the promise being given here was actually written to the Philadelphian believers in John’s day. The Philadelphians were firstly commended for their steadfast faithfulness and then secondly, as a result of that, they were promised they would be rewarded by given special protection in the hour of trial. We should not forget that the issue in view here was the brutal persecution of the Christians by the Romans in that day, specifically in Asia Minor. The early Church experienced heavy tribulation throughout the known world where the Roman Empire ruled and reigned in unchallenged power. The obedience that is being documented here (“thou hast kept the word of my patience”) was that of these early Philadelphian believers. The New Living Translation puts it “Because you have obeyed my command to persevere.”

We must establish, who is being protected and when? The Philadelphian Christians are promised protection from the said trial back in biblical times. Jesus assures them “I … will keep thee from the hour of temptation.” Why? On the expressed grounds of their ongoing obedience to God. Their faithfulness is both acknowledge and rewarded: “thou hast kept the word of my patience.” Preservation in the midst of trial was/is a common reality for faithful believers throughout all time. Whilst God’s people have experienced awful persecution through time, it has often been God’s heart in scriptural times and Church history to guard His elect in the midst of adversity rather than remove them from it. We see that throughout Scripture.

Go back and read my post again. I didnt tell you what this passages meant. I asked you what they meant. I didnt mention a rapture in this post. I asked you what those scriptures mean. Are you coherant? Do you comprehend what I say when I say it? Apparently not.

"Where is a rapture mentioned in Revelation 3:10?
Where is a 7 yr trib mentioned in Revelation 3:10?
Where is a 3rd coming mentioned in Revelation 3:10?"

This is your answer to what do those passages mean to you? Why wont you discuss the text on the merits of the text? WHy do you always go off on a tangent? Do you have a hard time reading?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You sound like F2F in your style of argument.
Daniel 9 is God dealing with Israel in the time to come. The wrath,tribulation.

Why would Christians,those who recognize the Jewish Messiah Yeshua as Savior,be present? When unbelieving Israel is facing God's wrath.

Christians know
1 Thessalonians 4 very well. The living and the dead in Christ shall meet him in the air.

While chapter 5 tells us, “For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.”

It often appears in talks like this that some need it stated directly. "Christians will be raptured..." before it is believed by them.

It is spelled out though. One just has to read it to see it.
Like Yeshua said, it was given to some to understand his parables. Yet,others did not understand because they weren't meant to.

That's God.
He plans things His way.

No one said that anyone but Christians will be raptured. That is obvious. But, what many miss is that 1 Thessalonians 4:13-5:9 is describing one event. First, Paul wrote about what will happen to believers during that event and then he wrote this:

1 Thessalonians 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. 2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

So, right after Christians are caught up to meet the Lord in the air, sudden and unexpected destruction (God's wrath) will come down upon unbelievers "and they shall not escape". Why did Paul say that they will not escape? Because it will be global and affect the entire earth as Peter described here:

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

There isnt a single scripture that says "the rapture is imminent" like you want it to say. I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you...??

Pre-tribs typically claim that the rapture is imminent. That is not a belief you share with other pre-tribs then?

 

[WPM]

Go back and read my post again. I didnt tell you what this passages meant. I asked you what they meant. I didnt mention a rapture in this post. I asked you what those scriptures mean. Are you coherant? Do you comprehend what I say when I say it? Apparently not.

"Where is a rapture mentioned in Revelation 3:10?
Where is a 7 yr trib mentioned in Revelation 3:10?
Where is a 3rd coming mentioned in Revelation 3:10?"

This is your answer to what do those passages mean to you? Why wont you discuss the text on the merits of the text? WHy do you always go off on a tangent? Do you have a hard time reading?

LOL. I actually did. Please reread. Are you trying to be obtuse or do you have no response? I will repeat:

If one is to read this portion of Scripture in its most straight-forward and literal way it seems clear that this is specifically speaking to the local church in Philadelphia (Asia Minor) in A.D. 96. There is no way you would instinctively relate it to some end-time global Church prior to the coming of the Lord.

Pretribulationists miss (or ignore) the fact that the promise being given here was actually written to the Philadelphian believers in John’s day. The Philadelphians were firstly commended for their steadfast faithfulness and then secondly, as a result of that, they were promised they would be rewarded by given special protection in the hour of trial. We should not forget that the issue in view here was the brutal persecution of the Christians by the Romans in that day, specifically in Asia Minor. The early Church experienced heavy tribulation throughout the known world where the Roman Empire ruled and reigned in unchallenged power. The obedience that is being documented here (“thou hast kept the word of my patience”) was that of these early Philadelphian believers. The New Living Translation puts it “Because you have obeyed my command to persevere.”

We must establish, who is being protected and when? The Philadelphian Christians are promised protection from the said trial back in biblical times. Jesus assures them “I … will keep thee from the hour of temptation.” Why? On the expressed grounds of their ongoing obedience to God. Their faithfulness is both acknowledge and rewarded: “thou hast kept the word of my patience.” Preservation in the midst of trial was/is a common reality for faithful believers throughout all time. Whilst God’s people have experienced awful persecution through time, it has often been God’s heart in scriptural times and Church history to guard His elect in the midst of adversity rather than remove them from it. We see that throughout Scripture.

 

[WPM]

There isnt a single scripture that says "the rapture is imminent" like you want it to say. I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you...??

Then, why state it as a fact? The reality is: that is what you have been taught by man. It is not what you have gleaned from Scripture. Pretrib is a man-made doctrine that enjoys zero scriptural support for all its tenets. That is why you or no Pretribber can furnish any hard and clear Scripture to address any simple questions on this thread.

Also: prove that "there is no Scripture or prophecies that needs fulfilled before He returns for His bride"?

 

[MA2444]

Daniel's people were the Israelites. It doesn't mention the church at all in Daniel 9:24. Not explicitly nor implicitly.

What are you implying? That the rapture happened thousands of years ago? Before Jesus even?
Remember, our God is the God that tells the end from the beginning? This wouldn't include the gentile church? WHy not? I thought we were grafted into the vine. This is a prophecy of Daniel and if you keep read it from there you'lll see that the messenger Angel tells Daniel to seal up these prophecies until the time of the end times. He is explaining the different parts of the 70 weeks of daniel...and he clearly is talking about the end times. That's us now.

Unless you dont think the OT is valid anymore because Jesus came? The fact is that you wont be be able to understand the end times scriptures in the NT unless you have an understanding of the OT. That's what I have found.

So, you're saying the tribulation is in verse 26.

Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Well the way it reads, he outlines the first 69 weeks of the 70 weeks in verse 26 and then talks about the tribulation (the 70th week) in verse 27.

You're asking for a awful lot to be packed into a single verse, lol! How about this? Go and read 4 chapters in the book of Daniel. Chapters 9-10-11 and 12. (they're fairly short). That way, you get a lot better picture about what the Angel is telling Daniel.

And when the Angels is about through talking to Daniel, (watch for it), the Angel says, Seal up the words of this prophecy in a book to be saved for the end times...(paraphrased). and hopefully it'll make more sense then. Reading a few chapters tells us a whole lot more than a single verse or two! We get the context, the setting aand all the litlle side remarks that they use to help us paint the big picture. This is prophecy Brothers, for the end times, last days. It says so!

 

[WPM]

Well the way it reads, he outlines the first 69 weeks of the 70 weeks in verse 26 and then talks about the tribulation (the 70th week) in verse 27.

You're asking for a awful lot to be packed into a single verse, lol! How about this? Go and read 4 chapters in the book of Daniel. Chapters 9-10-11 and 12. (they're fairly short). That way, you get a lot better picture about what the Angel is telling Daniel.

And when the Angels is about through talking to Daniel, (watch for it), the Angel says, Seal up the words of this prophecy in a book to be saved for the end times...(paraphrased). and hopefully it'll make more sense then. Reading a few chapters tells us a whole lot more than a single verse or two! We get the context, the setting aand all the litlle side remarks that they use to help us paint the big picture. This is prophecy Brothers, for the end times, last days. It says so!

You keep coming out with stuff like this, whilst dodging the numerous basic glaring hermeneutical holes in your theology.

Can you give me another example in Scripture of such a decapitation of a harmonious time-period - like where God says 7 days and He didn't mean a linear, congruent and sequential 7 days, or 7 years and He didn't mean a linear, congruent and sequential 7 years, or 70 years and He didn't mean a linear, congruent and sequential 70 years? Anything?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Only after being caught up. Why are you adamant one has to happen prior to the other?

In 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 Paul indicated that what would happen first after He descends from heaven is that the dead in Christ would be resurrected. At that point we will all be changed to have incorruptible bodies and we will all be caught up to meet Him in the air. This is what Paul taught about what will happen when Jesus comes from heaven.

The mystery is that the soul is caught up out of one physical body, and placed into another physical body in the air. There have never been naked souls in the air. The only thing ever seen in the air was a physical body.

Nonsense. Nowhere does scripture teach that someone's soul stays in their dead body when they die. Paul taught that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:8). But you say it isn't possible to be present with the Lord without a body, thereby directly contradicting what Paul taught.

 

[MA2444]

If one is to read this portion of Scripture in its most straight-forward and literal way it seems clear that this is specifically speaking to the local church in Philadelphia (Asia Minor) in A.D. 96. There is no way you would instinctively relate it to some end-time global Church prior to the coming of the Lord.

Oh, so you mean this is just a a story about something that happened to someother people a few thousand years ago, and really has nothing to do with us?

Wow Brother, that's big!
One question: (maybe two, lol!). Do you know what Prophecy is?
Ever heard of the God which tells the end from the beginning?
Do you believe in Prophecy?

We must establish, who is being protected and when? The Philadelphian Christians are promised protection from the said trial back in biblical times. Jesus assures them “I … will keep thee from the hour of temptation.” Why? On the expressed grounds of their ongoing obedience to God. Their faithfulness is both acknowledge and rewarded: “thou hast kept the word of my patience.”

So it's not a prophecy is what you're saying?
That's actually a poor translation also. A closer translation would read:
Because thou has kept my words during My patience. In other words, the last 2000 years after Jesus came. You kept my word, I was patient with you,

v10, 10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.../KJV

So , what hour of temptation is being spoke about here? All the earth? That sound big. That sounds like, tribulation.

Then, why state it as a fact?

Because I can think?

The reality is: that is what you have been taught by man. It is not what you have gleaned from Scripture. Pretrib is a man-made doctrine that enjoys zero scriptural support for all its tenets. That is why you or no Pretribber can furnish any hard and clear Scripture to address any simple questions on this thread.

Do you want about what the text says or just sling insults? Have some class bro. It's rude how you do this. You have trouble responding to the text and tell me You're wrong and without why? Thats not cool. Then you'll ask a couple (or a list) of stupid question asking for "that one scripture"mthat umlocks it all! You have trouble debating I see. We're just talking. We're not supposed to be competitors. We're trying to understand the truth. Or do you just like being a butthead?

Also: prove that "there is no Scripture or prophecies that needs fulfilled before He returns for His bride"?

I can do that. But be advised Brother, you may have to think. Whe someone says something, logic and reason will lead you down a particular path and suggest a conclusion. Critical thinking Brother.
If I say, it was Blue. You can't really say, prove what Blue is, I think it means red. He must be colorblind! Please try not to do that! If you'll try, I'll tell you all about it to the best of my understanding.

 

[WPM]

Oh, so you mean this is just a a story about something that happened to someother people a few thousand years ago, and really has nothing to do with us?

Wow Brother, that's big!
One question: (maybe two, lol!). Do you know what Prophecy is?
Ever heard of the God which tells the end from the beginning?
Do you believe in Prophecy?




So it's not a prophecy is what you're saying?
That's actually a poor translation also. A closer translation would read:
Because thou has kept my words during My patience. In other words, the last 2000 years after Jesus came. You kept my word, I was patient with you,

v10, 10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.../KJV

So , what hour of temptation is being spoke about here? All the earth? That sound big. That sounds like, tribulation.



Because I can think?



Do you want about what the text says or just sling insults? Have some class bro. It's rude how you do this. You have trouble responding to the text and tell me You're wrong and without why? Thats not cool. Then you'll ask a couple (or a list) of stupid question asking for "that one scripture"mthat umlocks it all! You have trouble debating I see. We're just talking. We're not supposed to be competitors. We're trying to understand the truth. Or do you just like being a butthead?



I can do that. But be advised Brother, you may have to think. Whe someone says something, logic and reason will lead you down a particular path and suggest a conclusion. Critical thinking Brother.
If I say, it was Blue. You can't really say, prove what Blue is, I think it means red. He must be colorblind! Please try not to do that! If you'll try, I'll tell you all about it to the best of my understanding.

It is you that is hurling insults. You cannot seem to help it. I understand your frustration, but it does not advance your argument. It rather exposes it. You cannot even address my contextual argument re Revelation 3:10. That speaks volumes as to your position. Please address what I wrote and keep your insults and childish tactics to yourself.

 

[WPM]

Because I can think?



Do you want about what the text says or just sling insults? Have some class bro. It's rude how you do this. You have trouble responding to the text and tell me You're wrong and without why? Thats not cool. Then you'll ask a couple (or a list) of stupid question asking for "that one scripture"mthat umlocks it all! You have trouble debating I see. We're just talking. We're not supposed to be competitors. We're trying to understand the truth. Or do you just like being a butthead?



I can do that. But be advised Brother, you may have to think. Whe someone says something, logic and reason will lead you down a particular path and suggest a conclusion. Critical thinking Brother.
If I say, it was Blue. You can't really say, prove what Blue is, I think it means red. He must be colorblind! Please try not to do that! If you'll try, I'll tell you all about it to the best of my understanding.

So, you admit you have no Scripture that says the rapture is "imminent" and you have nothing to prove that "there is no scripture or prophecies that needs fulfilled before He returns for His bride"? Agreed! This is a false teaching perpetrated by Pretrib writers who are foisting man-made Jesuits beliefs on the inspired text. At least we have found common ground.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

What are you implying? That the rapture happened thousands of years ago? Before Jesus even?

Please be serious. Do you actually think there is any chance I could be implying something so ridiculous? Give me a break. Paul, writing well after Jesus ascended to heaven, wrote about the rapture as a future event. But, you somehow think I'm claiming it happened "Before Jesus even"? Come on.

I simply said that Daniel's people were the Israelites. What is hard to understand about that? Are the Israelites the church? No. So, why are you trying to say that Daniel 9:24 is about the church?

Remember, our God is the God that tells the end from the beginning? This wouldn't include the gentile church? WHy not? I thought we were grafted into the vine. This is a prophecy of Daniel and if you keep read it from there you'lll see that the messenger Angel tells Daniel to seal up these prophecies until the time of the end times. He is explaining the different parts of the 70 weeks of daniel...and he clearly is talking about the end times. That's us now.

You are reading things into the prophecy that are not there. You shouldn't do that.

Of course we know now that the Gentiles have been included in God's plan to provide salvation to mankind, but that particular prophecy is not about the Gentiles. In no way, shape or form were the Gentiles Daniel's people.

Unless you dont think the OT is valid anymore because Jesus came?

What do you mean by this? Certainly, the old covenant has been replaced by the new covenant, but I'm not sure if that's what you're talking about. All of the Old Testament scriptures are valid, but many of the OT prophecies have been fulfilled or have an ongoing fulfillment that started long ago.

The fact is that you wont be be able to understand the end times scriptures in the NT unless you have an understanding of the OT. That's what I have found.

I don't believe that is a good approach to understanding Bible prophecy. I believe, for the most part, the NT sheds light on the OT, not the other way around. So, we should use the NT to help understand the meaning of OT prophecies.

Well the way it reads, he outlines the first 69 weeks of the 70 weeks in verse 26 and then talks about the tribulation (the 70th week) in verse 27.

It doesn't read that way to me.

You're asking for a awful lot to be packed into a single verse, lol!

Not sure what you mean, but what is clear to me is that the city and the sanctuary that it's talking about is the one that would exist when the Messiah came and when the Messiah was cut off, which was the second temple that still existed in Jesus's day. The same temple that Jesus said would be destroyed (Matthew 24:1-2, Mark 13:1-2, Luke 21:6-7).

How about this? Go and read 4 chapters in the book of Daniel. Chapters 9-10-11 and 12. (they're fairly short). That way, you get a lot better picture about what the Angel is telling Daniel.

Daniel 9:24-27 is its own prophecy. No need to make everything convoluted by combining multiple prophecies into one.

And when the Angels is about through talking to Daniel, (watch for it), the Angel says, Seal up the words of this prophecy in a book to be saved for the end times...(paraphrased). and hopefully it'll make more sense then.

I don't need you to teach me. It's clear to me that you have no understanding of the prophecy whatsoever.

It refers to "the time of the end". Here is an example where the NT can help us interpret the OT:

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

John indicated that "the last time" or what the book of Daniel calls "the time of the end" had already begun in his day. It refers to the New Testament era. The words of Daniel's prophecy being sealed up simply means the prophecy would not be understood until a later time. Thanks to the teachings of Jesus and to the New Testament being written long ago, people have understood the prophecy for a long time already, so it was already unsealed long ago.

Reading a few chapters tells us a whole lot more than a single verse or two! We get the context, the setting aand all the litlle side remarks that they use to help us paint the big picture. This is prophecy Brothers, for the end times, last days. It says so!

You are not looking at how scripture itself defines "the end times" and "last days". Peter indicated that the last days began long ago already.

Acts 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; 17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: 18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

This was Peter speaking on the day of Pentecost long ago and indicating that the last days had already begun back then because part of what marks the last days is the time period during which the Holy Spirit is poured out on people, which is still ongoing today. You are putting a time limit on "the end times" and "last days" that scripture does not.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Oh, so you mean this is just a a story about something that happened to someother people a few thousand years ago, and really has nothing to do with us?

Wow Brother, that's big!
One question: (maybe two, lol!). Do you know what Prophecy is?
Ever heard of the God which tells the end from the beginning?
Do you believe in Prophecy?




So it's not a prophecy is what you're saying?
That's actually a poor translation also. A closer translation would read:
Because thou has kept my words during My patience. In other words, the last 2000 years after Jesus came. You kept my word, I was patient with you,

v10, 10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.../KJV

So , what hour of temptation is being spoke about here? All the earth? That sound big. That sounds like, tribulation.



Because I can think?



Do you want about what the text says or just sling insults? Have some class bro.

LOL. Such hypocrisy. You are talking about someone else slinging insults after you said insulting things like this:

Wow Brother, that's big!
One question: (maybe two, lol!). Do you know what Prophecy is?
Ever heard of the God which tells the end from the beginning?
Do you believe in Prophecy?

 

[MA2444]

It is you that is hurling insults. You cannot seem to help it. I understand your frustration, but it does not advance your argument. It rather exposes it. You cannot even address my contextual argument re Revelation 3:10. That speaks volumes as to your position. Please address what I wrote and keep your insults and childish tactics to yourself.

What are you, a Master Projectionist? Can't you read the text and draw conclusions from it? Low comprehension? I'm no genius man I'm only a 136 but I have good comprehension. And the kind of things that you say...if by chance (big IF) you were right, you are speaking so far over my head that I am but am imecile child. And what's awesome is that while you will jump on here to say, you're wrong! You dont explain yourself and show where i am wrong, about what, what it really means, and since you speak soo far above me that you are just soo intelligent and lose me. But I don't buy that because I'm not stupid. !36. So if you're so far above me to lose me then you would be intelligent enough to explain yourself.

So I dont buy that conclusion. You are all over the place with your posts and do not speak in the intelligent manner that one would expect someone to speak. Yeah. So if you're intelligent enough to lose me and imly that I have next to zero comprehension myself...then you would make more sense than you do. Do you understand what I'm saying? I'm not insulting you. But if you're that dang smart then you could make a better case for your chosen position on this topic. And it seems like, when you dont have an answer, you ignore the question and list far fetched questions instead of conclusional discussion. (Show me where it says Cell Phone in the Bible?!) and stuff just as absurd.

English, Reading, Comprehension, Critical Thinkng...these were my best subjects in school. You have been unable to convince me that I am wrong about this topic.

 

[The Light]

Jesus did not make this comparison to the days of Noah, so neither should you.

Jesus likened His coming before wrath to the days of Noah. Noah was shut in the ark 6 days before the flood.

We should only go by what He actually said. And what He indicated is that people would be "eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage" until His second coming just like they were until the flood came in Noah's day.

No, No absolutely no.

They were eating and until drinking marrying and giving in marriage until the day Noah entered the ark.

Matthew 24
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

I think knowing what day Noah entered the ark would be extremely important. And he was shut in 6 days before the flood.

The idea is that people will be doing the normal things that people do while being unaware of what is about to happen to them just like in the days of Noah.

They were eating and drinking etc until the day Noah entered the ark. The world will be different the day the Church enters the ark. That will likely be 6 days before the wrath of God.

To read anything more into the comparison of the days before Christ returns and the days of Noah than what Jesus said is a case of trying to add to scripture in order to make it fit your doctrine.

Baloney. He gave specifics as written in the Word of God. You seem to want to ignore what we are told. The time is short by the way.

 

[MA2444]

Please be serious. Do you actually think there is any chance I could be implying something so ridiculous? Give me a break. Paul, writing well after Jesus ascended to heaven, wrote about the rapture as a future event. But, you somehow think I'm claiming it happened "Before Jesus even"? Come on.

I simply said that Daniel's people were the Israelites. What is hard to understand about that? Are the Israelites the church? No. So, why are you trying to say that Daniel 9:24 is about the church?

Oh! I'm sorry Brother. I must've thought I was talking to one of the absurd ones in this thread for a minute, lol. My apologies.

Ok. I had the thought that, all scripture must agree with all other scriptures and so, doesn't scripture talk about how we are grafted into the vine? The Israelites are not the church, they are God's chosen people...and us gentile Christians have been grafted into the vine of God's people.
Plus, the big one...this is a prophecy for the end times!

Daniel 12:4
4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased..../KJV

And here we are in the end times. And knowledge has been increased. So my conclusion is that, it is for us. Do you agree with my conclusion? It makes sense to me.

 

[MA2444]

So, you admit you have no Scripture that says the rapture is "imminent" and you have nothing to prove that "there is no scripture or prophecies that needs fulfilled before He returns for His bride"? Agreed! This is a false teaching perpetrated by Pretrib writers who are foisting man-made Jesuits beliefs on the inspired text. At least we have found common ground.

Am I that unclear? Again, I have several scriptures which don't say the word imminent per se but it very much points to that conclusion when taken tgether and apply thinking to it, the conclusion? Yes I can walk you right through it in detail with scriptures.

I had asked before going into it if I can get you to talk on the text and please dont go off on a tangent. It will either make sense to you, or not. If it doesn't make sense to you, then you should be able to tell me why not? Fair enough?

So don't just say, oh you're wrong with no explaination of why you think so. It's a lot of material and I dont mind typing it if you're reasonable and dont start getting weird. Wrong! Cliche cliche, iinsult, blahblahblah, where is the verse that says it out right so I dont have to think?

You can do better than that Brother, but if you do that, why should I bother typing it out for you? You a hard man to talk to.

 

[MA2444]

LOL. Such hypocrisy. You are talking about someone else slinging insults after you said insulting things like this:

Well he wont explain himself. I'm not insulting him. We're just a couple guys talking. Brothers in Christ no less!

How come everyone gets so offended so easily now? It's almost like they look for a reason to be offended? That's just weird Brother. Jeff Cooper, rest his soul, was right. We live in the age of the Ninny.

Just men talking I thought.