The Galilean wedding is the model for the pre-trib rapture

[Timtofly]

The mystery is that not all of us will die, but our bodies will all be changed to be incorruptible and immortal at the last trumpet.

Only after being caught up. Why are you adamant one has to happen prior to the other?

The mystery is that the soul is caught up out of one physical body, and placed into another physical body in the air. There have never been naked souls in the air. The only thing ever seen in the air was a physical body.

Show me one verse that was not symbolic that describes literal souls moving through the air. No one in the NT was a witness to the OT bodily ascending with Jesus into Paradise. But to say it did not happen, is ridiculous. It was a mystery still, because all the first century church had to go on was that souls waited in sheol until the final resurrection. So people physically coming with Jesus from Paradise at the Second Coming is still a mystery to you, because you deny they have physical bodies.

You want many to assume a rapture in Revelation 19, but that is just an assumption as much as in any other chapter in Revelation, no?

The only time a person is brought back to life and physically ascends into heaven is in Revelation 11:11-12. And many interpretations wrongly apply that as happening at the 6th Trumpet. Revelation 19 is not the 6th Trumpet, by any stretch of interpretation. Revelation 11:11-12 is not the mystery that Paul is talking about, because the 2 witnesses are not alive and remain. They had been killed 3.5 days earlier. Are you saying a percentage of their body remained alive and that covers your eschatological bias?

The word saint does not mean church. Saint could mean elect, but their redemption has not been finalized. The elect are in Jesus Christ, because they are souls under the alter (symbolic, not literal), named in the Lamb's book of life (literal, not symbolic). But those beheaded found in Revelation 20:4 are not even redeemed until after they stand as literal souls on earth, before thrones and judged. The setting is on earth, because Satan was on the earth when bound. These souls were never in heaven. You don't even allow them to have a physical body after they are judged. These souls do not represent humans before nor during your alleged first century millennium that stops at the Second Coming. These souls were beheaded during the short time given to Satan, prior to Satan being bound. Explain how there were beheaded souls judged in the first century, then you use that as souls without bodies in heaven. How were there souls both in heaven and sheol, prior to the Cross? Paul never says souls are constantly judged year after year until the Second Coming. Only once does Paul say that all must stand before the judgment seat of Christ, not to be given eternal life, but to be judged and rewarded according to works burned up or works that remain. That has nothing to do with being given a physical body. Where would you place the rapture in 2 Corinthians 5?

You want straightforward? That would be that many were beheaded just prior to Armageddon. Then Satan was defeated at Armageddon, and bound for a thousand years. Then those souls just beheaded were judged, and the result of that judgement was the ability to live on the earth for a thousand years while Satan was bound. That is straightforward. Now to just slap "church" on everything is not straightforward. The term ecclesia means a called out assembly, not just every one in history. A saint could be part of the church or not. Elijah was a saint, but not a called out assembly of humans. Noah and his family were assumed a called out assembly, as they restarted earth's population called out of the wickedness that was destroyed. They would also be saints first, then called out, no? The church of Moses in the wilderness was called out of Egypt. Abraham and company were called out of Ur. The NT church was called out of the world, and set apart by submission to the Holy Spirit. Those beheaded were not called out. They chopped their heads off, to remain saints and part of the elect named in the Lamb's book of life. They escaped the second death, but they had to stand in judgment, before they could be redeemed. The church does not have to stand in judgment before thrones and judged to receive the second birth. While church does include saints. Saints does not necessarily mean all have been made part of the church.

You seem to overlook that the second birth is not given at conception. The second birth is a conscious decision to stop living for one's self, and submit to the Holy Spirit. So being called out is not from birth, but individuals choosing to obey the call of being called out. You want to say these beheaded were not actually beheaded, but symbolic of leaving the old life behind and spiritually submitting to the Holy Spirit. There is no indication that being beheaded is symbolic of anything else, but literally chopping one's head off. In fact you agree they are only souls, because they left the physical body when the head was chopped off. You cannot have it both ways. Were they physically killed in the first century prior to the church being called out, ie your millennium? Or were they physically killed in the time frame of the second coming?

If they were never physically killed, but just symbolize Jews around the time Jesus was born, how can they be the church during your millennium? How did the disciples who started the church symbolically stand before thrones and judged? Explain what the thrones symbolize in first century context.

 

[WPM]

There are souls in heaven, no doubt.


There are 24 elders in heaven with crowns. Jesus has come for the Church.

This is symbolism depicting authority. The 24 Elders are kings and priest. We are kings and priests now. We reign now. But we do not wear literal physical gold crowns. This simply depicts the spiritual authority belonging to these Elders, just like the white robes represent the righteousness of Christ. This is a symbolic book. If you do not get that you are going to be all over the place.

Rev 3
11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

Where in Revelation is this one future coming of Christ???????????????

As you dive into the book of Revelation it is important to recognize that it is not chronological. It is a series of recaps. It is a number of repetitions describing the spiritual battle going on during the intra-Advent period. It presents different camera views of the same game (mainly, the period between Christ's First Advent and His Second Advent). Sometimes when one is watching a sports game, the camera is close in on the action, sometimes it presents a broad panoramic view of the game. Sometimes it is focused on the coaches, sometimes it is focused on the players, other times, it is focused on the fans. The book Revelation is a bit like that. Sinclair Ferguson describes the apocalypse as: “Recapitulatory and progressive parallelism.” Each recapitulation finishes with the gathering of the wicked together to battle against the righteous, followed by the glorious climatic coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Parallels are simply different camera views of the same corresponding intra-Advent period which look at different aspects of the great battle between darkness and light. While they focus in on the same intra-Advent period, they focus different aspects of the overthrow of the kingdom of darkness. Revelation is written for the purpose of revealing the character and standing of Christ, His power and glory, following His victorious earthly ministry. It reveals who Christ is, His current standing, what His plan is, and it also ministers unto those who are going through tribulation.

It is important to recognize the recaps (or repeats or different camera views) of the same general game in Revelation. Each show us an important different aspect of the defeat of the kingdom of darkness and the defeat of every enemy of righteousness. Each of these refer to different subjects, entities or aspects of God's unfolding plan during that time. Each recapitulation finishes with the gathering of the wicked together to battle against the righteous, followed by the glorious climatic coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.

The apocalypse generally presents metaphorical pictures of the intra-Advent period culminating in the glorious return of Christ. This is shown from different camera views. Each parallel addresses different aspects of the overall supernatural battle between the kingdom of God and the kingdom of darkness.

It is a victorious book. The whole focus is Christ, and what He achieved on our behalf, and how He now exercises sovereign dominion over Satan and the powers of darkness today.

 

[WPM]

There are souls in heaven, no doubt.


There are 24 elders in heaven with crowns. Jesus has come for the Church.

Rev 3
11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.


Where in Revelation is this one future coming of Christ???????????????



How many times do I have to tell you. I never said the tribulation was 7 years long.

Agreed. They don't understand there are two raptures. And when you understand this, it all fits together perfectly.


Anytime I ask you for evidence of a flat earth, you duck the question. Don't avoid the question. Where is your scriptural support for a flat earth? Please support your claims of a flat earth.


Great. And the 70th week of Daniel is about the people of Daniel. Why do you keep wanting to put the Church going through all that tribulation when we can escape ALL THESE THINGS that will come to pass.

Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.


Great. Now please provide scriptural support for a flat earth. Don't claim there is a flat earth and then dodge my question.

Clarify?

Do you believe there is a seven-year tribulation after the coming of the Lord?

 

[The Light]

The reader will see the multiple posts above that remain unaddressed.

I don't think I have missed anything from you. I need to address Randy but you keep posting so much nonsense that its hard to keep up.

Everywhere you look inn the inspired pages forbids Pretrib and Premil.

Christ appears with His holy angels (Matthew 13:41-43, 49 16:27 24:29-31 25:31-32, Mark 13:25-27, Luke 9:26, Revelation 14:14-20) and the New Jerusalem (John 14:1-3, Hebrews 11:8-10, 13-16, 13:14. Revelation 3:11-12, 21:1-4).

And how does any of this prevent pretrib. All I've seen is a bunch of out of context scriptures that I have to look up and address. Get specific. List the scripture and show how it prevents pre trib.

The wicked, to a man, are immediately destroyed, as in Noah and Lot’s day (Joel 2:1-3, Joel 2:10-11, Isaiah 13:6-12, Malachi 4:1-3, Matthew 3:12, Luke 17:27-30, I Thessalonians 5:2-4, II Thessalonians 1:7-10, 2 Peter 2:5-9, Revelation 19:17-21).

Here you go again listing a bunch of out of context scriptures without showing anything. I can make a list of scriptures also with no explanation. What does it prove.

I will address your Noah and Lot comment.

Matthew 24
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

They were eating and drinking until the day Noah entered the ark. Noah entered the ark 7 days before the flood and then was sealed in by God.......6 days before the flood. Destruction did not occur the day Noah entered the ark. Just as destruction will not occur the day Church is raptured to heaven.
As for Lot, the day he leaves Sodom destruction comes. The seed of the woman, the twelve tribes across the earth are raptured at the 6th seal. Then the 1-year wrath of God begins when the 7th seal is opened.

There is a general resurrection/judgment (singular) of all mankind at the coming of Christ (Matthew 10:15, 12:36, 16:27, 25:31-46, John 5:21-30, 6:39-44, 54, 10:42, 11:21-27, 12:48, 17:30-32, 24:15, Acts 10:42, 17:30-31, Romans 2:4-8, 14:10-12, 1 Corinthians 3:6-8, 11-15, 1 Corinthians 4:5, 2 Corinthians 5:10, 2 Timothy 4:1-8, 2 Thessalonians 1:5-8, 1 Timothy 5:24, Hebrews 9:27, 10:27, 2 Peter 2:9, 3:7, 1 Peter 4:1-5, 1 John 4:17, and Revelation 19:11, 20:11-15, 22:12).

Post the scriptures and then comment on the scriptures. Then I will show you why you are incorrect. Don't just list a bunch of out of context scriptures and expect me to figure out what you think they prove. Like I said I can list a bunch of scriptures. What does that prove. I went through your cut and paste posts earlier and showed why you were error. But you list too many scripture without explanation.

 

[The Light]

Once again, you make a Pretrib statement and think that proves your position. It doesn't. It shows how erroneous Pretrib is and how bereft it is of clear Scripture. Where is your Scripture that show the ecclesia (the Church) are raptured before Rev 5. It simply doesn't exist. You have been taught wrong. You have no evidence to bring to the table. The saints of Christ remain on earth until the one final future coming of Christ.

Your avoidance proves my supposition.

Boy that's weak. Your claims of avoidance is pure poppycock. You are posting so much nonsense that I cannot address it all. Get specific and quit listing a bunch of out of context scriptures.

Here is 24 elders with crowns that prove that Jesus has come.
Rev 4
4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

Here is the Church in heaven.
Rev 5
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

 

[The Light]

Do you believe there is a seven-year tribulation after the coming of the Lord?

No.

 

[The Light]

This is symbolism depicting authority. The 24 Elders are kings and priest. We are kings and priests now. We reign now. But we do not wear literal physical gold crowns. This simply depicts the spiritual authority belonging to these Elders, just like the white robes represent the righteousness of Christ. This is a symbolic book. If you do not get that you are going to be all over the place.

Yeah, the old ignore the text and claim symbolism.

Here are those 24 elders casting those so called symbolic crown to Jesus.

Rev 4
10 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,

As you dive into the book of Revelation it is important to recognize that it is not chronological. It is a series of recaps.

Good we have some common ground. Let's see how common.

It is a number of repetitions describing the spiritual battle going on during the intra-Advent period. It presents different camera views of the same game (mainly, the period between Christ's First Advent and His Second Advent). Sometimes when one is watching a sports game, the camera is close in on the action, sometimes it presents a broad panoramic view of the game. Sometimes it is focused on the coaches, sometimes it is focused on the players, other times, it is focused on the fans. The book Revelation is a bit like that.

Totally agree.

Sinclair Ferguson describes the apocalypse as: “Recapitulatory and progressive parallelism.” Each recapitulation finishes with the gathering of the wicked together to battle against the righteous, followed by the glorious climatic coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Check

It is important to recognize the recaps (or repeats or different camera views) of the same general game in Revelation. Each show us an important different aspect of the defeat of the kingdom of darkness and the defeat of every enemy of righteousness. Each of these refer to different subjects, entities or aspects of God's unfolding plan during that time. Each recapitulation finishes with the gathering of the wicked together to battle against the righteous, followed by the glorious climatic coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.

The apocalypse generally presents metaphorical pictures of the intra-Advent period culminating in the glorious return of Christ. This is shown from different camera views. Each parallel addresses different aspects of the overall supernatural battle between the kingdom of God and the kingdom of darkness.

It is a victorious book. The whole focus is Christ, and what He achieved on our behalf, and how He now exercises sovereign dominion over Satan and the powers of darkness today.

OK. Describe the best you can the order of Revelation from Revelation 6 thru Rev 16.

 

[WPM]

No.

How long is your trib after Christ comes? Why do you quoting Dan 9 to support your rapture view when it makes no mention of a rapture or a second coming? So far your arguments seems to be based on inference.

 

[WPM]

I don't think I have missed anything from you. I need to address Randy but you keep posting so much nonsense that its hard to keep up.


And how does any of this prevent pretrib. All I've seen is a bunch of out of context scriptures that I have to look up and address. Get specific. List the scripture and show how it prevents pre trib.

Here you go again listing a bunch of out of context scriptures without showing anything. I can make a list of scriptures also with no explanation. What does it prove.

I will address your Noah and Lot comment.

Matthew 24
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

They were eating and drinking until the day Noah entered the ark. Noah entered the ark 7 days before the flood and then was sealed in by God.......6 days before the flood. Destruction did not occur the day Noah entered the ark. Just as destruction will not occur the day Church is raptured to heaven.
As for Lot, the day he leaves Sodom destruction comes. The seed of the woman, the twelve tribes across the earth are raptured at the 6th seal. Then the 1-year wrath of God begins when the 7th seal is opened.

Post the scriptures and then comment on the scriptures. Then I will show you why you are incorrect. Don't just list a bunch of out of context scriptures and expect me to figure out what you think they prove. Like I said I can list a bunch of scriptures. What does that prove. I went through your cut and paste posts earlier and showed why you were error. But you list too many scripture without explanation.

Jesus said in Luke 17:26-30, “as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.”

How many wicked survived in Noah's day?
How many wicked survived in Sodom?

You know, in both of these examples, all the elect were immediately and totally rescued and all the wicked were immediately and totally destroyed. So will it be when He appears. All the elect were immediately and totally rescued and all the wicked were immediately and totally destroyed, so will it be when He appears.

It is both the suddenness and the scale of the destruction happening that is enlightening for the end-time Bible student.

The plain focus of this teaching in Luke 17 (reference Noah and Lot’s day) is the nature and degree of the judgment that befell the wicked in these two familiar Old Testament stories and especially the extent of that particular wrath. The key element and major emphasis of this discourse is the fact (speaking of the ungodly) that God “destroyed them all.” The comprehensive destruction of the wicked in both of these examples is the important lesson of the narrative; both the whole world of Noah’s day and the whole individual city of Sodom in Lot’s day saw the immediate and complete rescue of the entire righteous coupled together with the immediate and complete destruction of the entire wicked.

 

[The Light]

You make it up as you. You do not even quote the relevant sacred text because it exposes your reasoning.

You read without understanding.

Firstly, God did not shut Noah and his family up in safety in the ark for 6 or 7 days as some Pretribs argue. God gave Noah 7 days notice – allowing him to fill the ark with his family and the animals, saying, "For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth" (Genesis 7:4).

What is the first thing God told Noah to do?

Genesis 7
1 And the Lord said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.

Do you think Noah obeyed?

Genesis 7
5 And Noah did according unto all that the Lord commanded him.

7 days notice until the rain comes!!! God then closed the ark and the floods immediately came and destroyed all the wicked. Jesus said, “the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all” (Luke 17:27).

And yet Noah entered the 7 days before the flood and was sealed in 6 days before the flood.

OK. Riddle me this.

You claim that God gave Noah 7 days notice and that Noah spent those 7 days loading the animals. Scripture says different.

Genesis 7
13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;

14 They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.

If Noah spent 7 days loading the animals how is it possible that they all loaded on the self same day? Now you are going to try and claim the the self same day was the day of the flood. If that were true, then Noah would have had to disobey God and wait until the day of the flood to load the animals.

Noah, his family and all the animals were loaded in the self same day, the very day the Lord told him to enter the ark.

So we can logically prove what you are claiming is incorrect.

 

[WPM]

Yeah, the old ignore the text and claim symbolism.

Here are those 24 elders casting those so called symbolic crown to Jesus.

Rev 4
10 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,


Good we have some common ground. Let's see how common.


Totally agree.



Check

OK. Describe the best you can the order of Revelation from Revelation 6 thru Rev 16.

Cycle 1

Seven Churches (Ch 2-3)

Cycle 2

Seven Seals (Ch 6-8:1)

Cycle 3

Seven Trumpets (Ch 8-11)

Cycle 4

The Church and its onslaught from the devil and the beast’s and ultimate victory in heaven.

Cycle 5

Seven Vials (Ch 15-16)

Cycle 6

Babylon (Ch 17-19)

Cycle 7

The spiritual binding of Satan from the cross. The advance of the Gospel to the nations. The victorious reign of the saints in heaven. The ushering in of the New Heaven and the New Earth (Ch 20-22:1-5).

 

[The Light]

Jesus said in Luke 17:26-30, “as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.”

How many wicked survived in Noah's day?
How many wicked survived in Sodom?

You know, in both of these examples, all the elect were immediately and totally rescued and all the wicked were immediately and totally destroyed. So will it be when He appears. All the elect were immediately and totally rescued and all the wicked were immediately and totally destroyed, so will it be when He appears.

It is both the suddenness and the scale of the destruction happening that is enlightening for the end-time Bible student.

The plain focus of this teaching in Luke 17 (reference Noah and Lot’s day) is the nature and degree of the judgment that befell the wicked in these two familiar Old Testament stories and especially the extent of that particular wrath. The key element and major emphasis of this discourse is the fact (speaking of the ungodly) that God “destroyed them all.” The comprehensive destruction of the wicked in both of these examples is the important lesson of the narrative; both the whole world of Noah’s day and the whole individual city of Sodom in Lot’s day saw the immediate and complete rescue of the entire righteous coupled together with the immediate and complete destruction of the entire wicked.

And yet they were eating and drinking until the day that Noah entered the ark. They were sealed in by God 6 days before the flood. But the very day Lot left Sodom, destruction came. This day is the Day of the Lord.

This is describing two different comings of the Lord.

 

[WPM]

You read without understanding.


What is the first thing God told Noah to do?

Genesis 7
1 And the Lord said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.

Do you think Noah obeyed?

Genesis 7
5 And Noah did according unto all that the Lord commanded him.


And yet Noah entered the 7 days before the flood and was sealed in 6 days before the flood.

OK. Riddle me this.

You claim that God gave Noah 7 days notice and that Noah spent those 7 days loading the animals. Scripture says different.

Genesis 7
13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;

14 They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.

If Noah spent 7 days loading the animals how is it possible that they all loaded on the self same day? Now you are going to try and claim the the self same day was the day of the flood. If that were true, then Noah would have had to disobey God and wait until the day of the flood to load the animals.

Noah, his family and all the animals were loaded in the self same day, the very day the Lord told him to enter the ark.

So we can logically prove what you are claiming is incorrect.

It doesn't say that Noah and his whole family entered the ark seven days before the flood.

After they had loaded the last animal in they all obviously entered in the ark and God shut the door. Your fight is with Scripture here. The text is very clear. You obviously twist it because it cuts across your doctrine.

This teaching of Jesus alone forbids Pretrib. God always rescues all His elect and then immediately destroys all the wicked.

 

[Timtofly]

Frankly, if these aren’t Christians, what are they?

Was Moses a Christian? The term Christian means a follower of Christ. These are all terms you use universally. Guess what? Not all humanity get all the terms you are trying to squeeze into one all encompassing term. There are different terms to provide context. Not a single universal human. Moses was not a NT saint. Moses was an OT saint. That does not mean he was never redeemed. Saint is used in context of the time frame along with every other term you have listed. The term Christian was never used in the OT as describing people living prior to Christ.

Yet all amill claim those beheaded were a phenomenon prior to the Cross.

 

[WPM]

And yet they were eating and drinking until the day that Noah entered the ark. They were sealed in by God 6 days before the flood. But the very day Lot left Sodom, destruction came. This day is the Day of the Lord.

Again, where does it say "they were sealed in by God 6 days before the flood"? Give us hard Scripture. I will not hold my breath. This is what Pretribbers do. They make sweeping claims but cannot support with the inspired texts. They distort the biblical narrative in order to force a square peg into a round hole.

 

[The Light]

It doesn't say that Noah and his whole family entered the ark seven days before the flood.

After they had loaded the last animal in they all obviously entered in the ark and God shut the door. Your fight is with Scripture here. The text is very clear. You obviously twist it because it cuts across your doctrine.

This teaching of Jesus alone forbids Pretrib. God always rescues all His elect and then immediately destroys all the wicked.

I ain't the one doin the twistin. Tis ye.

How is it possible for Noah, his family and all the animals to enter the ark on the self same day and obey God and enter the ark when he was told.

You say it took 7 days for Noah to enter the ark with animals. How can that be if they all loaded on the self same day.

The text proves you cannot be correct. It's never hard to prove people that spiritualize the text incorrect. The problem is getting them to admit they are in error.

 

[The Light]

Again, where does it say "they were sealed in by God 6 days before the flood"? Give us hard Scripture. I will not hold my breath. This is what Pretribbers do. They make sweeping claims but cannot support with the inspired texts. They distort the biblical narrative in order to force a square peg into a round hole.

Are you unable to draw a logical conclusion from the text.

First thing Noah is told is to enter the ark. He is told in 7 days that the flood would come.

Genesis 7
9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.

10 And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.

Noah entered the ark and it came to pass after 7 days that the flood was on the earth. The flood was not on the earth the day Noah entered the ark. It was 7 days later. After Noah and the animals entered on the self same day, God shut them in. That would leave 6 days.

Try accepting the facts. Don't you want truth or do you want to think you are right when you are not.

 

[WPM]

I ain't the one doin the twistin. Tis ye.

How is it possible for Noah, his family and all the animals to enter the ark on the self same day and obey God and enter the ark when he was told.

You say it took 7 days for Noah to enter the ark with animals. How can that be if they all loaded on the self same day.

The text proves you cannot be correct. It's never hard to prove people that spiritualize the text incorrect. The problem is getting them to admit they are in error.

Once again you do not provide one single quote to support your claim. That is becoming a pattern with you, and one that is typical of engaging with Pretribbers. Again, where does it say "they were sealed in by God 6 days before the flood"? Give us hard Scripture.

Jesus said in Luke 17:26-30, “as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.”

Jesus words support my position and damn your doctrine. They show what that "self-same day" was - "the day" of destruction, thus the 7th day. Christ speaks of “the days of Noe” (plural), speaking of the days that preceded the destruction of all the wicked. He then spoke of “the day” (singular), speaking of the actual day when the wicked were wholesale wiped out. This contrast between “the days” and “day” is common in Scripture and is presented in order that we can distinguish between “the lasts days” of time and “the last day” of time, that ushers in the end. The actual day that Noah entered into the ark "the flood came, and took them all away." It was therefore an individual day that God closed the door of the Ark and by doing so damned all those that were left behind. The same will occur when our ark – Christ – arrives at the second coming.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The 70th week of Daniel is about the people of Daniel. Why all you guys think it's about the Gentiles is a puzzle.

I've never said that. That isn't what I believe. Do you think you are capable of having a discussion where you don't misrepresent what I believe? Am I asking too much?

You claims are unfounded. We both know who is making things up.

It seems like I am the only one who knows because it's you and you won't admit it.

There are two folds. The Gentiles are the first harvest. We hear His voice. After the first rapture there are other sheep not of that fold that will have their blindness remove and then hear His voice. They will be the second fold. Both folds into one.

You couldn't misinterpret John 10 more if you tried. The first fold is Israelite believers. His other fold is Gentile believers. They were brought together as one. Scripture makes that very clear.

And yet you claim that the Church is the 144,000 which is making things up.

When did I claim that? I didn't. Again, can you please stop misrepresenting my view? They are described as firstfruits. I see them as being the same firstfruits James references in James 1:18.

I take that literally.

No, you don't. Why do you have so much trouble with being honest? You do not believe that all of the dead will be resurrected in the same hour/time as Jesus said in John 5:28-29. Your doctrine has the dead being raised at multiple different hours/times and you know that.

Now let me ask you this. If you are a very, very, very, good person but have rejected Christ are you going to come out of the grave to the resurrection of life?????????????????????

No. Why do you ask? Jesus indicated that all of the dead (saved and lost) will be resurrected in the same hour/time. One resurrection event with two different outcomes (some raised to eternal life and the rest raised to damnation). This is the conclusion you would draw if you read it literally like I do.

OK. Let's deal with that. Answer this question. Where is the very, very, good person that rejects Christ going?

To the lake of fire (Matt 25:41, Rev 20:15).

The fig tree has two harvests, there are two folds, one coming like the days of Noah and one like the days of Lot. Jacob had two brides. The 70th week of Daniel is about the people of Daniel and their eyes are not opened until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

The 70th week was about what Jesus did for the people of Daniel. He made reconciliation (atonement) for their iniquity by shedding His blood for them, thereby making an end of sin (taking away their sins - John 1:29) and finishing their transgression by taking it upon Himself.

They are not the Church because the Word tells you they are not the Church. If you want to deny what is written I can't help that.

They belong to Christ, so they are certainly part of the church, at least. There is one body, not two. All are one in Christ (Galatians 3:26-29). You try to separate what Jesus has brought together as one.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Are you unable to draw a logical conclusion from the text.

First thing Noah is told is to enter the ark. He is told in 7 days that the flood would come.

Genesis 7
9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.

10 And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.

Noah entered the ark and it came to pass after 7 days that the flood was on the earth. The flood was not on the earth the day Noah entered the ark. It was 7 days later. After Noah and the animals entered on the self same day, God shut them in. That would leave 6 days.

Try accepting the facts. Don't you want truth or do you want to think you are right when you are not.

Jesus did not make this comparison to the days of Noah, so neither should you. We should only go by what He actually said. And what He indicated is that people would be "eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage" until His second coming just like they were until the flood came in Noah's day. The idea is that people will be doing the normal things that people do while being unaware of what is about to happen to them just like in the days of Noah.

To read anything more into the comparison of the days before Christ returns and the days of Noah than what Jesus said is a case of trying to add to scripture in order to make it fit your doctrine.