The scary reality is: this is what is going on in their heads. It is all mumbo-jumbo.
The Galilean wedding is the model for the pre-trib rapture
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The scary reality is: this is what is going on in their heads. It is all mumbo-jumbo.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
It's truly unbelievable. He didn't address what I actually said at all. It's like what I said comes across to him in some different language than English. He discerns what people say about as well as he discerns what scripture says and that's not a compliment.
I know it might not be popular with these 3, but, I think there should stricter parental supervision online in our day.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
Daniel 2 gets us historically to the Reformation. That is when the 5 were fallen. We are 500 years into the mortally wounded 6th head. John was not writing from a first century perspective. He was writing from the perspective the Second Coming already happened, when the 6th head is revived, by Satan, the man of sin. Revelation 13.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Wrong. John indicated that 5 were already fallen at the time he wrote the book of Revelation.
Revelation 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
Nonsense. You are making scripture say what you want it to say.
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
That is not a rapture, but you seem to agree with the "pre-trib" / "post trib" stance of the poster, the Light. I cannot say what he thinks happens pre-trib, but it is what it is.
That is also in conjunction with the winepress of God's wrath. As you would see in the next verses:
"And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs."
You do realize that there are not actual sickles, and vines, and a winepress.
All this means is that the final harvest is over, and now Satan can be bound, and the millennium kingdom can start. This is still the result of the days of the 7th Trumpet, that John started to write about in chapter 10.
This is the first mention of the winepress of God's wrath. The other is in chapter 19.
Now can you tell me which winepress will happen, with all humanity removed from the earth at that point? If you say they both happen because it is the same event, then explain how those 42 months fit in per chapter 13?
They both are the total end of Adam's dead corruptible flesh, but only one version will happen.
Since you claim I am special with a lone wolf perspective, those verses you claim are a rapture, would actually be Jesus leaving the earth with the 144k on white horses. No one would actually be on the earth when God creates a brand new earth, now that the old one under the bondage of sin is no longer necessary. The redeemed are gathered, yes, physically killed, no. Raptured with a white horse, how do they come back on them later, if not? I would say they ascended with Jesus also on a white horse, as that is how they return 42 months later. Not actually gathered with a sickle by Jesus.
Either way. Jesus is not on the earth, nor the 144k if Satan is granted a 42 month extension after the final harvest. The winepress in Revelation 19, only happens if Satan gets 42 months. If no 42 months, no white horses and no return to Armageddon. That would not be necessary. The other winepress already happened, and you cannot kill those same people twice. Either all died in Revelation 14, or any one left after those 42 months, die at Armageddon.
This is easily proven because of chapter 17 and the explanation of the 7 heads. Remember that what happens in Revelation 14 is already post the 7th Trumpet. However you want to describe that "last" Trumpet.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
You are the one making assumptions about what I believe. In post 1244 you were asking me to prove things I've never claimed. And now you're asking me to back them up? Are you not listening? I am not a preterist. I do not believe all prophecy is in the distant past. I reject such teachings as those that belong to the counter reformation and invented by Jesuit anti Protestant antiChrist fiction writers of the 17th century. Incidentally, you are espousing beliefs invented by another Jesuit from the same period. Both worked to destroy Protestantism, both invented false doctrines in order to protect the papacy. It isn't for me to back up something I don't believe in. It's for you to back up what is essentially Jesuit deception.
The Light
Well-Known Member
But you have changed something. You changed the Greek on an earlier post to deceive everyone that your position was correct, and others were wrong.
To make things worse, you think that's ok.
What you consider avoidance is you making post after post to bury your falsehood and then claim avoidance.
It may not look good but my Father would like the truth. That fact seems to escape you.
Also, more smoke so you would not have to answer the question I asked. You are always railing on and on about show me the pretrib rapture in Revelation...............WHICH I DID..............and you can't show..............Where in Revelation is your rapture? Bet you can't find it.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure of your point. Yep, the
Covid mandates have revealed how gullible we are and how willing we are to bow to fear. I live in Victoria Australia, who had the hardest lockdown of anywhere in the world. But what has that got to do with your rapture theory?
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Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
It's the Son of Man in the clouds (in the air) harvesting believers from the earth. If that doesn't remind you of 1 Thess 4:14-17, then I don't know what would. And LOL at you thinking I "agree with the "pre-trib" / "post trib" stance of the poster, the Light". Not even close. For you to think I agree with that shows an unbelievably high level of poor reading comprehension on your part. I believe in one rapture, not five like he does.
That is Revelation 14:17-20 which applies to unbelievers and that is contrasted with Revelation 14:14-16 which applies to believers. I'm applying Revelation 14:14-16 to the rapture, not Revelation 14:17-20. Do you understand what I'm saying? In other words, Revelation 14:14-16 relates to 1 Thess 4:14-17 and Revelation 14:17-20 relates to 1 Thess 5:2-3.
LOL. No, really? LOL!!! You are a comedian.
Oh, really? Nice job of proving that. Oh wait, you didn't.
Those are parallel passages. But, that concept is apparently beyond your ability to understand, unfortunately.
I couldn't make any sense of the rest of what you said, so I couldn't respond to it.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Pretribs deny the obvious reference to the rapture in 2 Thessalonians 1:10 which references the day "when he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe". And they also deny what Paul obviously taught in 2 Thess 2:1-3 which is that the falling away and revealing of the man of sin have to occur first before the rapture occurs at His coming (parousia). They clearly will go out of their way to twist any scripture to make it fit their doctrine. It's sad to see.
This infantile behavior is hard to deal with on an adult forum.
When are you going to actual address the biblical arguments presented by others and stop the pettiness?
My only regret is that I didn't come across this discussion and the pettiness and avoidance of you 3 when i was a Pretribber. I would have abandoned it a lot quicker
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
You can only guess as to what he is ever saying since he is completely unable to communicate coherently for whatever reason. Yet, he somehow thinks what he says is irrefutable.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
He addressed this in detail in 2 posts, and here you are lying and saying he is avoiding addressing it. You have serious issues and need help. Lying is a sin.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
We have some babes in Christ here who are not at all ready for this kind of discussion. They don't even understand what lying is yet, let alone these things that we talk about on this forum. They are in way over their heads, but won't admit it. It's amazing how they think they are Bible scholars who munch on the solid food of the Word when in reality they are barely sipping the milk. They are not yet ready for solid food.
Through natural genetic dispersion and diffusion over up to more than three millennia, Abraham's DNA is possessed today by the entire human race.
Corroborated empirically by the Jewish community itself (identified today by culture and religion, not by genetics).
Abraham lineage
DNA Tests Could Fulfill God’s Promise to Abraham by Revealing Millions of Jews. But How Jewish is Jewish Enough?
Israel in all of Us? Research finds 'Jewish genes' in unusual places
Jewish-Roots Arabs in Israel
Tracing the lost tribes to Jewish communities in Africa
Nigeria's Igbo Jews: 'Lost tribe' of Israel? - CNN
http://www.worldjewishcongress.org/...-africa-has-jewish-roots-genetic-tests-reveal
https://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/...her-claims-proof-of-tribe-of-Ephraim-in-India
https://www.jta.org/2013/05/23/life...bush-bani-israel-tribe-claims-jewish-heritage
Demonstrated mathematically.
Example of ancestral genetic ubiquity:
Charlemagne’s DNA and Our Universal Royalty
BY CARL ZIMMER
Nobody in my past was hugely famous, at least that I know of. I vaguely recall that an ancestor of mine who shipped over on the Mayflower distinguished himself by falling out of the ship and having to get fished out of the water. He might be notable, I guess, but hardly famous. It is much more fun to think that I am a bloodline descendant of Charlemagne. And in 1999, Joseph Chang gave me permission to think that way.
Chang was not a genealogist who had decided to make me his personal project. Instead, he is a statistician at Yale who likes to think of genealogy as a mathematical problem. When you draw your genealogy, you make two lines from yourself back to each of your parents. Then you have to draw two lines for each of them, back to your four grandparents. And then eight great-grandparents, sixteen great-great-grandparents, and so on. But not so on for very long. If you go back to the time of Charlemagne, forty generations or so, you should get to a generation of a trillion ancestors. That’s about two thousand times more people than existed on Earth when Charlemagne was alive.
The only way out of this paradox is to assume that our ancestors are not independent of one another. That is, if you trace their ancestry back, you loop back to a common ancestor. We’re not talking about first-cousin stuff here–more like twentieth-cousin. This means that instead of drawing a tree that fans out exponentially, we need to draw a web-like tapestry.
In a paper he published in 1999 [pdf], Chang analyzed this tapestry mathematically. If you look at the ancestry of a living population of people, he concluded, you’ll eventually find a common ancestor of all of them. That’s not to say that a single mythical woman somehow produced every European by magically laying a clutch of eggs. All this means is that as you move back through time, sooner or later some of the lines in the genealogy will cross, meeting at a single person.
As you go back further in time, more of those lines cross as you encounter more common ancestors of the living population. And then something really interesting happens. There comes a point at which, Chang wrote, “all individuals who have any descendants among the present-day individuals are actually ancestors of all present-day individuals.”
In 2002, the journalist Steven Olson wrote an article in the Atlantic about Chang’s work. To put some empirical meat on the abstract bones of Chang’s research, Olson considered a group of real people–living Europeans.
The most recent common ancestor of every European today (except for recent immigrants to the Continent) was someone who lived in Europe in the surprisingly recent past—only about 600 years ago. In other words, all Europeans alive today have among their ancestors the same man or woman who lived around 1400. Before that date, according to Chang’s model, the number of ancestors common to all Europeans today increased, until, about a thousand years ago, a peculiar situation prevailed: 20 percent of the adult Europeans alive in 1000 would turn out to be the ancestors of no one living today (that is, they had no children or all their descendants eventually died childless); each of the remaining 80 percent would turn out to be a direct ancestor of every European living today.
Suddenly, my pedigree looked classier: I am a descendant of Charlemagne. Of course, so is every other European. By the way, I’m also a descendant of Nefertiti. And so are you, and everyone else on Earth today. Chang figured that out by expanding his model from living Europeans to living humans, and getting an estimate of 3400 years instead of a thousand for the all-ancestor generation.
Things have changed a lot in the fourteen years since Chang published his first paper on ancestry. Scientists have amassed huge databases of genetic information about people all over the world. These may not be the same thing as a complete genealogy of the human race, but geneticists can still use them to tackle some of the same questions that intrigued Chang.
Recently, two geneticists, Peter Ralph of the University of Southern California and Graham Coop of the University of California at Davis, decided to look at the ancestry of Europe. They took advantage of a compilation of information about 2257 people from across the continent. Scientists had examined half a million sites in each person’s DNA, creating a distinctive list of genetic markers for each of them.
You can use this kind of genetic information to make some genealogical inferences, but you have to know what you’re dealing with. Your DNA is not a carbon copy of your parents’. Each time they made eggs or sperm, they shuffled the two copies of each of their chromosomes and put one in the cell. Just as a new deck gets more scrambled the more times you shuffle it, chromosomes get more shuffled from one generation to the next.
This means that if you compare two people’s DNA, you will find some chunks that are identical in sequence. The more closely related people are, the bigger the chunks you’ll find. This diagram shows how two first cousins share a piece of DNA that’s identical by descent (IBD for short).
Ralph and Coop identified 1.9 million of these long shared segments of DNA shared by at least two people in their study. They then used the length of each segment to estimate how long ago it arose from a common ancestor of the living Europeans.
Their results, published today in PLOS Biology, both confirm Chang’s mathematical approach and enrich it. Even within the past thousand years, Ralph and Coop found, people on opposite sides of the continent share a lot of segments in common–so many, in fact, that it’s statistically impossible for them to have gotten them all from a single ancestor. Instead, someone in Turkey and someone in England have to share a lot of ancestors. In fact, as Chang suspected, the only way to explain the DNA is to conclude that everyone who lived a thousand years ago who has any descendants today is an ancestor of every European. Charlemagne for everyone!
If you compare two people in Turkey, you’ll find bigger shared segments of DNA, which isn’t surprising. Since they live in the same country, chances are they have more recent ancestors, and more of them. But there is a rich, intriguing pattern to the number of shared segments among Europeans. People across Eastern Europe, for example, have a larger set of shared segments than people from within single countries in Western Europe. That difference may be the signature of a big expansion of the Slavs.
Ralph and Coop’s study may provide a new tool for reconstructing the history of humans on every continent, not just Europe. It will also probably keep people puzzling over the complexities of genealogy.
How does God distinguish genetic Jews from genetic Jews?
It matters not one whit.
Because God has only two covenant criteria.
Two spiritual genes.
Faith and obedience.
Abraham's Spiritual DNA.
And nothing else.
God is not a racist.
He cannot be contorted into one.
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Brakelite
Well-Known Member
Just want to put this out there for everyone to understand. I don't agree with barely anyone here regarding the timing and the actual events and players in these last days. I do agree that there is no pretrib rapture. The inspired Psalmist said we are to be witnesses to the rise and fall of the wicked. In other words, we will be living through all the events of the last days, will witness them, but be protected from the plagues that are poured out at the end. Just as Israel were witnesses to the obstinacy of Pharoah and his rejection of God's prophet, yet were protected from the effects of the plagues. God could have taken Israel out of Egypt, then sent the plagues. He didn't. He wanted the story told. His justice and power witnessed, that they could later testify to God's goodness and mercy in His dealing with Israel. So it will be at the end.
KJV Psalms 91:1-11
1 He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
2 I will say of the LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust.
3 Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence.
4 He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.
5 Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day;
6 Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday.
7 A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.
8 Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.
9 Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
10 There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.
11 For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.
As for the setting up of God kingdom on earth and a millennial reign? Yes, there is a 1000 years during which Satan is bound but there are no live humans in the planet. All are in heaven. The earth isn't recreated until the 1000 years is over. Only then do the meek inherit the earth, only then will it be actually habitable again, when the new Jerusalem descends from heaven, the wicked are raised from their sleep to face their judgement and ultimate destruction...the second death.
There are numerous other differences also, but I don't want to recreate this thread in my image.
KJV Psalms 91:1-11
1 He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
2 I will say of the LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust.
3 Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence.
4 He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.
5 Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day;
6 Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday.
7 A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.
8 Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.
9 Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
10 There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.
11 For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.
As for the setting up of God kingdom on earth and a millennial reign? Yes, there is a 1000 years during which Satan is bound but there are no live humans in the planet. All are in heaven. The earth isn't recreated until the 1000 years is over. Only then do the meek inherit the earth, only then will it be actually habitable again, when the new Jerusalem descends from heaven, the wicked are raised from their sleep to face their judgement and ultimate destruction...the second death.
There are numerous other differences also, but I don't want to recreate this thread in my image.
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