The founding fathers of modern-day Premillennialism were heretics

[WPM]

Lactantius (c. 250–325 AD)​

• In The Divine Institutes, Book 7, he gives a detailed account of a future millennium, with Christ reigning on earth, Satan bound, and peace restored.

ZING! SNACK ON THAT!

I am glad you brought Lactantius up!

You can paper over the pagan source of Lactantius' teaching all you want but it exposes the dubious origin of ancient Premil. Apart from the heretic Cerinthus of Asia Minor (50-100 AD) and Marcion of Sinope, Asia Minor (Born: 85 AD, Died: 160 AD), Lactantius (AD 240-340) seems to be the only early writer that held to any of the beliefs (outside of the existence of a 1,000 years) that modern Premils do today, albeit he based his theology on the manuscripts of the Sibyl prophetesses’. I find it strange that you are comfortable with promoting such a dubious source.

Lactantius did not source his beliefs in the writings of Irenaeus, he received them from the pagan Sibyl prophetesses. Here is the evidence:

as the Sibyl testifies and says:--

"For then there shall be confusion of mortals throughout the whole earth, when the Almighty Himself shall come on His judgment-seat to judge the souls of the quick and dead, and all the world."

But He, when He shall have destroyed unrighteousness, and executed His great judgment, and shall have recalled to life the righteous, who have lived from the beginning, will be engaged among men a thousand years, and will rule them with most just command.

Which the Sibyl proclaims in another place, as she utters her inspired predictions:--

"Hear me, ye mortals; an everlasting King reigns."

Then they who shall be alive in their bodies shall not die, but during those thousand years shall produce an infinite multitude, and their offspring shall be holy, and beloved by God; but they who shall be raised from the dead shall preside over the living as judges.[1] But the nations shall not be entirely extinguished, but some shall be left as a victory for God, that they may be the occasion of triumph to the righteous, and may be subjected to perpetual slavery. About the same time also the prince of the devils, who is the contriver of all evils, shall be bound with chains, and shall be imprisoned during the thousand years of the heavenly rule in which righteousness shall reign in the world, so that he may contrive no evil against the people of God. After His coming the righteous shall be collected from all the earth, and the judgment being completed, the sacred city shall be planted in the middle of the earth, in which God Himself the builder may dwell together with the righteous, bearing rule in it.

And the Sibyl marks out this city when she says:--

"And the city which God made this He made more brilliant than the stars, and sun, and moon."

Then that darkness will be taken away from the world with which the heaven will be overspread and darkened, and the moon will receive the brightness of the sun, nor will it be further diminished: but the sun will become seven times brighter than it now is; and the earth will open its fruitfulness, and bring forth most abundant fruits of its own accord; the rocky mountains shall drop with honey; streams of wine shall run down, and rivers flow with milk: in short, the world itself shall rejoice, and all nature exult, being rescued and set free from the dominion of evil and impiety, and guilt and error. Throughout this time beasts shall not be nourished by blood, nor birds by prey; but all things shall be peaceful and tranquil. Lions and calves shall stand together at the manger, the wolf shall not carry off the sheep, the hound shall not hunt for prey; hawks and eagles shall not injure; the infant shall play with serpents.

In short, those things shall then come to pass which the poets spoke of as being done in the reign of Saturnus.

Whose error arose from this source,--that the prophets bring forward and speak of many future events as already accomplished. For visions were brought before their eyes by the divine Spirit, and they saw these things, as it were, done and completed in their own sight. And when fame had gradually spread abroad their predictions, since those who were uninstructed in the mysteries[2] of religion did not know why they were spoken, they thought that all those things were already fulfilled in the ancient ages, which evidently could not be accomplished and fulfilled under the reign of a man.[3] But when, after the destruction of impious religions and the suppression of guilt, the earth shall be subject to God,--

"The sailor[4] himself also shall renounce the sea, nor shall the naval pine Barter merchandise; all lands shall produce all things. The ground shall not endure the harrow, nor the vineyard the pruning hook; The sturdy ploughman also shall loose the bulls from the yoke. The plain shall by degrees grow yellow with soft ears of corn, The blushing grape shall hang on the uncultivated brambles, And hard oaks shall distil the dewy honey. Nor shall the wool learn to counterfeit various colours; But the ram himself in the meadows shall change his fleece, Now for a sweetly blushing purple, now for saffron dye; Scarlet of its own accord shall cover the lambs as they feed. The goats of themselves shall bring back home their udders distended with milk; Nor shall the herds dread huge lions."[5]

Which things the poet foretold according to the verses of the Cumaean Sibyl. But the Erythraean thus speaks:--

"But wolves shall not contend with lambs on the mountains, and lynxes shall eat grass with kids; boars shall feed with calves, and with all flocks; and the carnivorous lion shall eat chaff at the manger, and serpents shall sleep with infants deprived of their mothers."

And in another place, speaking of the fruitfulness of all things:--

"And then shall God give great joy to men; for the earth, and the trees, and the numberless flocks of the earth shall give to men the true fruit of the vine, and sweet honey, and white milk, and corn, which is the best of all things to mortals."

And another in the same manner:--

"The sacred land of the pious only will produce all these things, the stream of honey from the rock and from the fountain, and the milk of ambrosia will flow for all the just."

Therefore men will live a most tranquil life, abounding with resources, and will reign together with God; and the kings of the nations shall come from the ends of the earth with gifts and offerings, to adore and honour the great King, whose name shall be renowned and venerated by all the nations which shall be trader heaven, and by the kings who shall rule on earth.

"These are the things which are spoken of by the prophets as about to happen hereafter: but I have not considered it necessary to bring forward their testimonies and words, since it would be an endless task; nor would the limits of my book receive so great a multitude of subjects, since so many with one breath speak similar things; and at the same time, lest weariness should be occasioned to the readers if I should heap together things collected and transferred froth all; moreover, that I might confirm those very things which I said, not by my own writings, but in an especial manner by the writings of others, and might show that not only among us, but even with those very persons who revile us, the truth is preserved,[1] which they refuse to acknowledge.[2] But he who wishes to know these things more accurately may draw from the fountain itself, and he will know more things worthy of admiration than we have comprised in these books …

which the Sibyls say shall come to pass

 

[shepherdsword]

Where in Against Heresies, Book 5?

Chapter 31 – Satan’s defeat and restoration of creation​

This is a more implicit reference to the binding of Satan:

“He shall destroy the wicked one... and bind him, and cast him into the bottomless pit...”

This echoes the language of Revelation 20:1–3, describing the binding of Satan during the millennium!!!!

Don't worry, I will spoon feed and gently guide you brother!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Hebrews 1:1-3, 2:8-10 says, “God … Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things … Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high … Thou hast put [Gr. hupotassō or subordinated or submitted] all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all [Gr. hupotassō or subordinated or submitted] in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under [Gr. anupotaktos or not made subject, unsubjected] him. But now we see not yet all things put under [Gr. hupotassō or subordinated or submitted] him. But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.”

There it is! He is the supreme power. He is the government. He carries all authority. This is a present ongoing reality. It is a current arrangement. Whilst new enemies are being born every day, while new wicked regimes continually arise, Christ determines what He allows and what He doesn’t. There is nothing that is not under Him. The world is NOT out of control. God has a plan and that plan will be fulfilled, when God sees fit.

Premillennialists highlight the phrase “now we see not yet all things put under him.” They present it as evidence that Christ is not ruling at the moment. But they (1) fail to interpret what this is actually saying and they (2) fail to quote all the surrounding evidence as context. This phrase is telling us: there are still enemies to be born and subjugated. There are still leaders and kingdoms to fall. The process of subjugation is ongoing to the second coming.

The sovereign king reigns majestic, supreme and unchallenged in His power and authority, ruling over all creation (seen and unseen) and over all things (good and evil). Whilst new enemies are being born every day, while new wicked regimes continually arise, Christ determines what He allows and what He doesn’t. There is nothing that is not under Him. The world is definitely not out of control. God has a plan and that plan will be fulfilled, as God sees fit.

Amen! It's incredible how he will quote Hebrews 2:8 and highlight the last sentence while COMPLETELY IGNORING everything written before that. It's truly unbelievable.

 

[shepherdsword]

I am glad you brought Lactantius up!

You can paper over the pagan source of Lactantius' teaching all you want but it exposes the dubious origin of ancient Premil. Apart from the heretic Cerinthus of Asia Minor (50-100 AD) and Marcion of Sinope, Asia Minor (Born: 85 AD, Died: 160 AD), Lactantius (AD 240-340) seems to be the only early writer that held to any of the beliefs (outside of the existence of a 1,000 years) that modern Premils do today, albeit he based his theology on the manuscripts of the Sibyl prophetesses’. I find it strange that you are comfortable with promoting such a dubious source.

Lactantius did not source his beliefs in the writings of Irenaeus, he received them from the pagan Sibyl prophetesses. Here is the evidence:

as the Sibyl testifies and says:--

"For then there shall be confusion of mortals throughout the whole earth, when the Almighty Himself shall come on His judgment-seat to judge the souls of the quick and dead, and all the world."

But He, when He shall have destroyed unrighteousness, and executed His great judgment, and shall have recalled to life the righteous, who have lived from the beginning, will be engaged among men a thousand years, and will rule them with most just command.

Which the Sibyl proclaims in another place, as she utters her inspired predictions:--

"Hear me, ye mortals; an everlasting King reigns."

Then they who shall be alive in their bodies shall not die, but during those thousand years shall produce an infinite multitude, and their offspring shall be holy, and beloved by God; but they who shall be raised from the dead shall preside over the living as judges.[1] But the nations shall not be entirely extinguished, but some shall be left as a victory for God, that they may be the occasion of triumph to the righteous, and may be subjected to perpetual slavery. About the same time also the prince of the devils, who is the contriver of all evils, shall be bound with chains, and shall be imprisoned during the thousand years of the heavenly rule in which righteousness shall reign in the world, so that he may contrive no evil against the people of God. After His coming the righteous shall be collected from all the earth, and the judgment being completed, the sacred city shall be planted in the middle of the earth, in which God Himself the builder may dwell together with the righteous, bearing rule in it.

And the Sibyl marks out this city when she says:--

"And the city which God made this He made more brilliant than the stars, and sun, and moon."

Then that darkness will be taken away from the world with which the heaven will be overspread and darkened, and the moon will receive the brightness of the sun, nor will it be further diminished: but the sun will become seven times brighter than it now is; and the earth will open its fruitfulness, and bring forth most abundant fruits of its own accord; the rocky mountains shall drop with honey; streams of wine shall run down, and rivers flow with milk: in short, the world itself shall rejoice, and all nature exult, being rescued and set free from the dominion of evil and impiety, and guilt and error. Throughout this time beasts shall not be nourished by blood, nor birds by prey; but all things shall be peaceful and tranquil. Lions and calves shall stand together at the manger, the wolf shall not carry off the sheep, the hound shall not hunt for prey; hawks and eagles shall not injure; the infant shall play with serpents.

In short, those things shall then come to pass which the poets spoke of as being done in the reign of Saturnus.

Whose error arose from this source,--that the prophets bring forward and speak of many future events as already accomplished. For visions were brought before their eyes by the divine Spirit, and they saw these things, as it were, done and completed in their own sight. And when fame had gradually spread abroad their predictions, since those who were uninstructed in the mysteries[2] of religion did not know why they were spoken, they thought that all those things were already fulfilled in the ancient ages, which evidently could not be accomplished and fulfilled under the reign of a man.[3] But when, after the destruction of impious religions and the suppression of guilt, the earth shall be subject to God,--

"The sailor[4] himself also shall renounce the sea, nor shall the naval pine Barter merchandise; all lands shall produce all things. The ground shall not endure the harrow, nor the vineyard the pruning hook; The sturdy ploughman also shall loose the bulls from the yoke. The plain shall by degrees grow yellow with soft ears of corn, The blushing grape shall hang on the uncultivated brambles, And hard oaks shall distil the dewy honey. Nor shall the wool learn to counterfeit various colours; But the ram himself in the meadows shall change his fleece, Now for a sweetly blushing purple, now for saffron dye; Scarlet of its own accord shall cover the lambs as they feed. The goats of themselves shall bring back home their udders distended with milk; Nor shall the herds dread huge lions."[5]

Which things the poet foretold according to the verses of the Cumaean Sibyl. But the Erythraean thus speaks:--

"But wolves shall not contend with lambs on the mountains, and lynxes shall eat grass with kids; boars shall feed with calves, and with all flocks; and the carnivorous lion shall eat chaff at the manger, and serpents shall sleep with infants deprived of their mothers."

And in another place, speaking of the fruitfulness of all things:--

"And then shall God give great joy to men; for the earth, and the trees, and the numberless flocks of the earth shall give to men the true fruit of the vine, and sweet honey, and white milk, and corn, which is the best of all things to mortals."

And another in the same manner:--

"The sacred land of the pious only will produce all these things, the stream of honey from the rock and from the fountain, and the milk of ambrosia will flow for all the just."

Therefore men will live a most tranquil life, abounding with resources, and will reign together with God; and the kings of the nations shall come from the ends of the earth with gifts and offerings, to adore and honour the great King, whose name shall be renowned and venerated by all the nations which shall be trader heaven, and by the kings who shall rule on earth.

"These are the things which are spoken of by the prophets as about to happen hereafter: but I have not considered it necessary to bring forward their testimonies and words, since it would be an endless task; nor would the limits of my book receive so great a multitude of subjects, since so many with one breath speak similar things; and at the same time, lest weariness should be occasioned to the readers if I should heap together things collected and transferred froth all; moreover, that I might confirm those very things which I said, not by my own writings, but in an especial manner by the writings of others, and might show that not only among us, but even with those very persons who revile us, the truth is preserved,[1] which they refuse to acknowledge.[2] But he who wishes to know these things more accurately may draw from the fountain itself, and he will know more things worthy of admiration than we have comprised in these books …

which the Sibyls say shall come to pass

Let's focus on His direct statement and not be detoured by the presentation of strawmen to obfuscate the truth

Lactantius (c. 250–325 AD)​

• In The Divine Institutes, Book 7, he gives a detailed account of a future millennium, with Christ reigning on earth, Satan bound, and peace restored.

“Then the prince of the devils... shall be bound with chains, and shall be imprisoned through the whole time of the thousand years of the heavenly rule.”

 

[shepherdsword]

Paul...nothing has changed. I have been pwning you for years and still continue to do so. Go to bed and get some rest. I am weary of spanking you today.

 

[WPM]

But now we see not yet all things put under is the crust of the biscuit . Once all things are subjugated by him he delivers the kingdom to the Father:

1 Co 15:24-25 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, until he hath put all enemies under his feet.

Yes, He is reigning now. He is king of kings and Lord of Lords. Premillennialism has a big devil a small Jesus. Amillennialism has a big Jesus and a small devil. They dethrone Him from the right hand of majesty on high. This is convenient for some, because they then have man calling the shots and God reacting to man. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Jesus testified after His resurrection: “All power [or authority] is given unto me in heaven and in earth” (Matthew 28:18).

Jesus rules and reigns today over all creation. There is nothing that is not under His feet. What He says goes! This is biblical bedrock! This is a foundational Christian truth.

I mean, how much more power than “all power ... in heaven and in earth” does He need to exercise power and authority over His enemies?

Romans 9:5 confirms, in an often-overlooked passage: “as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all.”

This proves that Christ has already come and now exercises kingship today over all mankind. It means: He carries the Father’s divine authority. He is currently enthroned. This is sovereign power! He holds this today upon His Father’s throne as God and upon David’s throne as Messiah. Him and the Father are one spiritually in authority.

Revelation 3:7 tells us: “And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key (or authority) of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth.”

He holds all power (without qualification). After all, He is God! God either causes or permits - as He is God and He is sovereign. Simple! That is an explicit biblical truth and a Christian fundamental. The powerful language that accompanies the mention of Christ holding the key of David proves that this is referring to His majestic power and might.

 

[WPM]

Let's focus on His direct statement and not be detoured by the presentation of strawmen to obfuscate the truth

Lactantius (c. 250–325 AD)​

• In The Divine Institutes, Book 7, he gives a detailed account of a future millennium, with Christ reigning on earth, Satan bound, and peace restored.

This is the theology of heretics. Look where he got his info, not Scripture!!! Why do you not acknowledge that?

 

[WPM]

HERE YOU GO

Irenaeus (c. 130–202 AD)​

• In Against Heresies, Book 5, he lays out a comprehensive chiliastic theology, drawing directly from Revelation 20.
• Describes Satan being bound, the resurrected saints reigning with Christ, and a restored earth.
• Also references Papias, who passed on similar teachings.

​

Where in Against Heresies, Book 5?

 

[WPM]

Proverbs 16:18 Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.

Amen! It's incredible how he will quote Hebrews 2:8 and highlight the last sentence while COMPLETELY IGNORING everything written before that. It's truly unbelievable.

It is truly not surprising. That is how he operates. He is over his head. That is why all the avoidance and the pettiness.

Also, he is quoting an ancient writer who derived his doctrine from the pagans, not Scripture. Makes him a good early Premil.

This is the problem with not knowing the subject at hand and of running to random Premil websites. You are left holding the baby.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

But now we see not yet all things put under is the crust of the biscuit .

Why do you completely ignore the first 2 sentences in Hebrews 2:8?

Hebrews 2:8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

Do you deny that God the Father "put all things in subjection under his feet" while leaving "nothing that is not put under him"? Is that part in your Bible? Can you not understand that part is talking about what is true now in relation to all current things and that there are still more future things that don't yet exist and therefore are not yet under Him? There will be many babies born tomorrow. They are not yet put under Him. When they are born tomorrow, then they will be under Him. Because at any given moment, all current things are under His feet. That's what the beginning of the verse that you ignore indicates.

Once all things are subjugated by him he delivers the kingdom to the Father:

1 Co 15:24-25 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, until he hath put all enemies under his feet.

He reigns now, as scripture teaches (Matt 28:18, Eph 1:19-22, Col 1:12-13, Rev 1:5-6, etc.). He must continue to reign until the last enemy is put under His feet, which is death (1 Cor 15:26) and that will happen at His return at the last trumpet when death is swallowed up in victory (1 Cor 15:54 - references Isaiah 25:8 as does Rev 21:4).

 

[shepherdsword]

This is the theology of heretics. Look where he got his info, not Scripture!!! Why do you not acknowledge that?

Says the man that holds to a papal view of eschatology. Do you subscribe to other papal doctrines as well?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It is truly not surprising. That is how he operates. He is over his head. That is why all the avoidance and the pettiness.

Also, he is quoting an ancient writer who derived his doctrine from the pagans, not Scripture. Makes him a good early Premil.

This is the problem with not knowing the subject at hand and of running to random Premil websites. You are left holding the baby.

Agree. It's quite clear which one of you has done your research on this and it's not him.

It's strange that he thought a post I made to him a few days back was rude and he basically called me a Satan worshiper because of it, so now he won't talk to me. But, look at his posts! What a hypocrite.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Says the man that holds to a papal view of eschatology. Do you subscribe to other papal doctrines as well?

Says the man who holds to a Mormon, Jehovah's Witness and Christadelphian view of eschatology. Do you subscribe to other Mormon, Jehovah's Witness and/or Christadelphian doctrines as well?

 

[WPM]

Says the man that holds to a papal view of eschatology. Do you subscribe to other papal doctrines as well?

Where in Against Heresies, Book 5 did you get that quote? What are you scared of? Or, did someone give you that and you don't have a clue how to verify it?

 

[shepherdsword]

Why do you completely ignore the first 2 sentences in Hebrews 2:8?

Hebrews 2:8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

Do you deny that God the Father "put all things in subjection under his feet" while leaving "nothing that is not put under him"? Is that part in your Bible? Can you not understand that part is talking about what is true now in relation to all current things and that there are still more future things that don't yet exist and therefore are not yet under Him? There will be many babies born tomorrow. They are not yet put under Him. When they are born tomorrow, then they will be under Him. Because at any given moment, all current things are under His feet. That's what the beginning of the verse that you ignore indicates.

Do you deny that we do not YET see all things put under him? Are all things submitted to him now? Is there still sin, death and sickness now? Heb 2:8 references Ps 8:6. It wasn't fulfilled then and it is not yet totally fulfilled yet. How do we know? Because the writer of Heb 2:8 goes on to say "But now we see not yet all things put under him" It's amazing how Amils totally ignore the conclusion of a verse and focus only on what they think supports their errant view

 

[Davy]

The 2nd century Amil theory crept in with it all boiling down to Gnosticism also creeping into the Christian Church during that time.

The Amil theory is a Gnostic heresy.

It is designed ultimately to support Satan's coming one-world beast kingdom of ten horns, seven heads, and ten crowns, at the very end of this present world just prior to Christ's 2nd coming.

ANY... doctrine that supports the erroneous idea that Christ's literal Kingdom is already established here on earth over all nations and peoples, is an offshoot of the doctrines of the 2nd century pagan Gnostics.

Gnosticism is linked to pagan witchcraft and the Occult (and thus directly to Satan). That is why they do not believe that Lord Jesus Christ really died on His cross, but that His disciples took Jesus down off the cross before He died, and that He lived to old age, married, and even had children. It should be obvious why PAGAN OCCULTISTS believe that false idea about Christ's crucifixion, because if true it would mean that Lord Jesus didn't die... for the remission of sins of those who believe. It would mean God's Plan of Salvation through the saving Blood of His Son Jesus Christ shed upon the cross was all fake.

Jesus please come soon! Show those pagans their error.

 

[shepherdsword]

Where in Against Heresies, Book 5 did you get that quote? What are you scared of? Or, did someone give you that and you don't have a clue how to verify it?

Are you so blind you missed it the first time I posted it? Here, let me lovingly spoon feed you again:

Chapter 31 – Satan’s defeat and restoration of creation​

This is a more implicit reference to the binding of Satan:

“He shall destroy the wicked one... and bind him, and cast him into the bottomless pit...”

This echoes the language of Revelation 20:1–3, describing the binding of Satan during the millennium.

Chapter 32 – Quoting Revelation directly​

"And he says, 'And I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold of the dragon... and bound him for a thousand years...'"

This is a direct quote from Revelation 20:1–2, showing Irenaeus clearly taught a future, literal binding of Satan.

 

[WPM]

Do you deny that we do not YET see all things put under him? Are all things submitted to him now? Is there still sin, death and sickness now? Heb 2:8 references Ps 8:6. It wasn't fulfilled then and it is not yet totally fulfilled yet. How do we know? Because the writer of Heb 2:8 goes on to say "But now we see not yet all things put under him" It's amazing how Amils totally ignore the conclusion of a verse and focus only on what they think supports their errant view

All noise and no evidence. This says it all!

The other one was built upon the teaching of the Pagan prophetesses. This sums up your Premil doctrine.

 

[shepherdsword]

All noise and no evidence. This says it all!

The other one was built upon the teaching of the Pagan prophetesses. This sums up your Premil doctrine.

I verified the quotes from Irenaeus’ Against Heresies, Book 5 TWICE. You are just as blind about that as you are about eschatology.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Do you deny that we do not YET see all things put under him?

No. Did you not read what I said? Apparently not or else you wouldn't have asked me this. We do not yet see all things that will ever exist under His feet even though, as Hebrews 2:8 says, all current things are under His feet.

Again, there will be many babies born tomorrow. They are not yet under His feet, but when they are born they will be. Is this hard for you to understand?

Are all things submitted to him now?

All things that exist right now are, yes. Otherwise, what does the following that I'm highlighting in red mean:

Hebrews 2:8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

I said that you ignore that part of the verse and then you respond to my post and continue to ignore it. Why?

Is there still sin, death and sickness now?

Yes, obviously. Any other obvious questions you'd like to ask? Is there a point here?

Heb 2:8 references Ps 8:6. It wasn't fulfilled then and it is not yet totally fulfilled yet. How do we know? Because the writer of Heb 2:8 goes on to say "But now we see not yet all things put under him" It's amazing how Amils totally ignore the conclusion of a verse and focus only on what they think supports their errant view

LOL! How about you stop evading and tell me how you interpret the first 2 sentences in the verse? It's like you didn't even read my post. I said you ignore the first 2 sentences in Hebrews 2:8 and you didn't even address that at all in this post.