The folly of Preterism

[Always Believing]

No. You have no answer to the facts. That is why you run from them. You avoid every Scripture, argument and post. No wonder so many are abandoning Premil.

Ahh. So it is about proselytizing to your own faith.

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

I don't crave more numbers in 'my' camp. I don't have a camp nor an axe to grind.

Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.

 

[Always Believing]

Avoidance is your MO. That is what you must do to sustain your error.

I've seen you people descend into dribble like this before. I guess you don't realize your behavior repeats itself like your copy and pasted speeches.

It's called being a parody of oneself.

 

[WPM]

And so, you don't try to change the meaning of telos into something symbolic. There's something to say for that.

It doesn't matter exactly when, but only that it literally ends.

Those who say His Millennium reign on earth is His spiritual eternal reign, are saying his everlasting kingdom will definitely end.

Look at what Scripture teaches and you will see Premil cannot be.

• The second coming is "the end" (telos). Premils have no difficulty with the meaning of the phrase "the beginning" but they conveniently become sheepish and cofuffled when it comes the meaning of "the end." That is because it exposes their theology.
• Time shall be no more at the last trumpet. We are then into eternity. There will be no more need for watches or calendars. This forbids a future protracted period of time full of the bondage of corruption.
• We are currently in the "last (eschatos) days" (plural) since the beginning of Christ's earth ministry, but these are shown in Scripture to have an end. The "last (or final or ultimate) day" (singular) is said to occur at Christ's coming. This also negates Premil.
• The end of the age happens at the return of Christ and sees the general resurrection/judgment. There are no imaginary 1000 years in-between both resurrection/judgments. That is a Premil invention. The only argument for that comes from a false reading of 1 symbolic chapter in the most figurative book in the Bible - 3 chapter before the end of Scripture. Think about that!

You carefully steered around the evidence above because it highlights what I am saying here. The reader can see that you have nothing in response and that your theology is wanting. You are plainly way out of your depth on this forum. You are obviously totally unable to rebut any Amil argument. Your fly-by evasive relies prove that.

 

[Always Believing]

Look at what Scripture teaches and you will see Premil cannot be.

• The second coming is "the end" (telos).

The end of man's rule on earth for a thousand years.

• You carefully steered around the evidence above because it highlights what I am saying here.

Nothing careful about it. I just don't bother with copy and paste ideology.

You are plainly way out of your depth on this forum.

well, there are two kinds of depth in Scripture. The deep things of God, and the depths of Satan that try to sound like the deep things of God.

Your depth is too deep for me and Scripture of God. It's bottomless. ;)

You know, I'm thinking the deep ditches people dig for themselves are while trying to dig deeper than God, and so dig underneath His word.

At some point the earthy walls of sand come crashing in.

And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Or in this case, just one little rock of Scripture: Telos.

The kingdom of Christ on earth that expires, is physical, not His everlasting kingdom of salvation.

By making His physical kingdom only spiritual, amils preach an expiration date of Christ's eternal reign over all things.

 

[WPM]

The end of man's rule on earth for a thousand years.



Nothing careful about it. I just don't bother with copy and paste ideology.


well, there are two kinds of depth in Scripture. The deep things of God, and the depths of Satan that try to sound like the deep things of God.

Your depth is too deep for me and Scripture of God. It's bottomless. ;)

You know, I'm thinking the deep ditches people dig for themselves are while trying to dig deeper than God, and so dig underneath His word.

At some point the earthy walls of sand come crashing in.

And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Or in this case, just one little rock of Scripture: Telos.

The kingdom of Christ on earth that expires, is physical, not His everlasting kingdom of salvation.

By making His physical kingdom only spiritual, amils preach an expiration date of Christ's eternal reign over all things.

I didn't copy and paste that. I wrote it for you. But any excuse will do for you to justify your inability to rebut Amil. Why do you even bother? You lost the battle a long time ago. All you are left with now is your ad hominem and then your inevitable running.

 

[WPM]

The end of man's rule on earth for a thousand years.



Nothing careful about it. I just don't bother with copy and paste ideology.


well, there are two kinds of depth in Scripture. The deep things of God, and the depths of Satan that try to sound like the deep things of God.

Your depth is too deep for me and Scripture of God. It's bottomless. ;)

You know, I'm thinking the deep ditches people dig for themselves are while trying to dig deeper than God, and so dig underneath His word.

At some point the earthy walls of sand come crashing in.

And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Or in this case, just one little rock of Scripture: Telos.

The kingdom of Christ on earth that expires, is physical, not His everlasting kingdom of salvation.

By making His physical kingdom only spiritual, amils preach an expiration date of Christ's eternal reign over all things.

Please address the evidence instead of ducking around it, as is your MO. All this proves is that you have no rebuttal for the truth.

 

[Truth7t7]

Then you teach the Lord's eternal spiritual realm will expire and literally end.

And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison.

His Millennial reign will literally end, even as His time on the cross was finished.

Satan is "Currently" bound from "One Specific Purpose", And One Only?

"Deceive The Nations" To Battle

The Non-Literal 1,000 Years (Revelation) 20:1-6 Are Taking Place Now In The Lords Spiritual, And Will Cease At The Future Second Coming

If A Tribulation Saint Were To Die One Day Before The Second Coming, He Enters Into The Non-Literal 1,000 Year Reign

Many That Promote Millennialism Falsely Teach, Satan Cant Be Presently Bound Because Evil Exist In The World?

Satan Is Presently Bound As Is Clearly Seen In (Revelation) 20:7-8 Below That Interprets (Deceive The Nations) Is To Battle, Not General Evil In The World Presently.

Satan Is Loosed At The End Of The Tribulation When The 6th Vial Is Poured Out As Seen In (Revelation) 16:12, The Deception Is Devils In False Miracles Going Forth To The Kings Of The Earth, To Gather Them To The Final Battle

(Revelation) 20:1-9KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

(Revelation) 16:12-14 & (Revelation) 20:7-8 Same Deception In Gathering The Nations To The Very Same Final Battle In "Parallel" Teachings Of The Same Event

(Revelation) 16:12-17KJV
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

 

[Truth7t7]

There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

And?

 

[Truth7t7]

There is no "waiting." Time is an illusion.

Tell that to the bank when they want their mortgage payment on the 1st of the month

More mystical metaphysical gobbly goop

 

[rwb]

There is no "waiting." Time is an illusion.

First you said there is no purgatory (no waiting), but then you say they "have been delivered", then you say they "wait." Sounds a lot like purgatory doctrine.

Certainly, that is the way the world would view it--but salvation and resurrection are not of the world. Do you not see that the time terms of this world do not [actually] apply?

Time is what God gave this world to show the progress of existence and events in the past, present, and future regarded as a whole, and is measured in hours, minutes, seconds, days, months, and years. God gave an allotted amount of time for mankind to be born again, and to plan, schedule, and arrange when (something) should/will happen or be done. A time to sow and a time to reap, a time to laugh and a time to cry, a time to be born and a time to die, a time for this age then comes the age of eternity upon the new earth when time shall be no longer. Thinking time is only an illusion implies an inability to distinguish between what is real and what only seems to be real, often as the result of a disordered state of mind, therefore making one delusional.

Purgatory is a Roman Catholic doctrinal belief in a place or state of suffering inhabited by the souls of sinners who are expiating their sins before going to heaven. The Roman Catholic doctrine believes purgatory is a place of cleansing or purifying a sinner's soul. To believe in purgatory is to believe that the blood of Christ is not sufficient for cleansing of all sin for only those who have faith in Him.

Unlike purgatory where according to Roman Catholic belief sinners must go to expiate their sins, biblical doctrine teaches that our sins are forgiven us in this age of time by faith in the atoning blood of Christ to cleanse us. Since our sins must be forgiven according to grace through faith before we die, in death there is no more sin to be forgiven the faithful. Which is why in death we go alive (living souls) spiritual body to heaven and are as the angels in heaven celestial beings. Because in Christ, death of our body is not death of our spirit. In time (this life) when we are born again of His Spirit in us, Christ promises we shall NEVER die. So only our body or outer shell that houses our spirit dies, but our spirit through the Spirit of Christ in us has eternal life and shall not know death. It is the spirits of those faithful in this life (time) who return with Christ when time given this earth shall be no longer.

Salvation and resurrection are not of this world? Christians believe that salvation is deliverance from sin and its consequences and is experienced in man by grace through faith when man hears the Gospel of Christ through the power of His Spirit during this age of time. If man is not saved through Christ during their lifetime, they will physically die, only to be raised back to life to stand before the great white throne judgment to give account before God according to what is written in the books and the book of life. They will suffer death a second time, but then the state of dying for them will be eternal, never end.

And you say resurrection is not of this world? The physical body, (or outward shell of all mankind living and dying in this age of time) that houses man's spirit shall be resurrected at the same hour that is coming. They that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

[WPM]

Time is what God gave this world to show the progress of existence and events in the past, present, and future regarded as a whole, and is measured in hours, minutes, seconds, days, months, and years. God gave an allotted amount of time for mankind to be born again, and to plan, schedule, and arrange when (something) should/will happen or be done. A time to sow and a time to reap, a time to laugh and a time to cry, a time to be born and a time to die, a time for this age then comes the age of eternity upon the new earth when time shall be no longer. Thinking time is only an illusion implies an inability to distinguish between what is real and what only seems to be real, often as the result of a disordered state of mind, therefore making one delusional.

Bro, this explains his writings. Nothing is absolute. Everything is a figment of our imagination. That is why he embraces heresy so readily. He cannot take a hold of the absolutes of Scripture.

 

[ScottA]

Tell that to the bank when they want their mortgage payment on the 1st of the month

More mystical metaphysical gobbly goop

"Mystical metaphysical gobbly goop?"

Tell that to Jesus when He asks you why you put Him off, when "today is the time of salvation." Matthew 23:13

 

[ScottA]

Time is what God gave this world to show the progress of existence and events in the past, present, and future regarded as a whole, and is measured in hours, minutes, seconds, days, months, and years. God gave an allotted amount of time for mankind to be born again, and to plan, schedule, and arrange when (something) should/will happen or be done. A time to sow and a time to reap, a time to laugh and a time to cry, a time to be born and a time to die, a time for this age then comes the age of eternity upon the new earth when time shall be no longer. Thinking time is only an illusion implies an inability to distinguish between what is real and what only seems to be real, often as the result of a disordered state of mind, therefore making one delusional.

Purgatory is a Roman Catholic doctrinal belief in a place or state of suffering inhabited by the souls of sinners who are expiating their sins before going to heaven. The Roman Catholic doctrine believes purgatory is a place of cleansing or purifying a sinner's soul. To believe in purgatory is to believe that the blood of Christ is not sufficient for cleansing of all sin for only those who have faith in Him.

Unlike purgatory where according to Roman Catholic belief sinners must go to expiate their sins, biblical doctrine teaches that our sins are forgiven us in this age of time by faith in the atoning blood of Christ to cleanse us. Since our sins must be forgiven according to grace through faith before we die, in death there is no more sin to be forgiven the faithful. Which is why in death we go alive (living souls) spiritual body to heaven and are as the angels in heaven celestial beings. Because in Christ, death of our body is not death of our spirit. In time (this life) when we are born again of His Spirit in us, Christ promises we shall NEVER die. So only our body or outer shell that houses our spirit dies, but our spirit through the Spirit of Christ in us has eternal life and shall not know death. It is the spirits of those faithful in this life (time) who return with Christ when time given this earth shall be no longer.

Salvation and resurrection are not of this world? Christians believe that salvation is deliverance from sin and its consequences and is experienced in man by grace through faith when man hears the Gospel of Christ through the power of His Spirit during this age of time. If man is not saved through Christ during their lifetime, they will physically die, only to be raised back to life to stand before the great white throne judgment to give account before God according to what is written in the books and the book of life. They will suffer death a second time, but then the state of dying for them will be eternal, never end.

And you say resurrection is not of this world? The physical body, (or outward shell of all mankind living and dying in this age of time) that houses man's spirit shall be resurrected at the same hour that is coming. They that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

When one passes "from death to life"--which part is of this world and which is part is of God?

Galatians 4:9-11​

But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? You observe days and months and seasons and years. I am afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain.​

 

[WPM]

When one passes "from death to life"--which part is of this world and which is part is of God?

Galatians 4:9-11​

But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? You observe days and months and seasons and years. I am afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain.​

Do you have a watch? Do you set the alarm? Do you use a calendar?

Time, seasons and order are a gift from God. To deny it is to deny reality. God gave the sun, moon and stars to give physical light to the earth. But they were also given in order to measure time. These brought distinct order, systematic structure and identifiable chronology. It is from this that we get classifiable years, months, days, hours and seconds.

Genesis 1:14-18: "And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good."

The sun and moon were then created to maintain order. Time revolves around day and night – the sun and the moon. This is a product of the earth circling the sun, while, at the same time, rotating on its own axis. It takes a little more than 365 days for the earth to make a complete trip around the sun. God has created natural forces in the solar system to keep the earth, and the other planets, locked into predictable orbits around the sun. This in turn produces identifiable order and regularity.

The Bible males clear: just like there was a beginning to time (with the creation of light and the creation of the sun and moon), so there will be an end of time.

 

[ScottA]

Do you have a watch? Do you set the alarm? Do you use a calendar?

Time, seasons and order are a gift from God. To deny it is to deny reality. God gave the sun, moon and stars to give physical light to the earth. But they were also given in order to measure time. These brought distinct order, systematic structure and identifiable chronology. It is from this that we get classifiable years, months, days, hours and seconds.

Genesis 1:14-18: "And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good."

The sun and moon were then created to maintain order. Time revolves around day and night – the sun and the moon. This is a product of the earth circling the sun, while, at the same time, rotating on its own axis. It takes a little more than 365 days for the earth to make a complete trip around the sun. God has created natural forces in the solar system to keep the earth, and the other planets, locked into predictable orbits around the sun. This in turn produces identifiable order and regularity.

The Bible males clear: just like there was a beginning to time (with the creation of light and the creation of the sun and moon), so there will be an end of time.

Tit-for-tat scripture quoting and making a case for the ways of this world isn't helping you. Are these quotes suppose to make void the one I gave? I quoted that you might see the need to reconcile all scripture, not counter God against God. You have made your choice. So be it.

 

[WPM]

Tit-for-tat scripture quoting and making a case for the ways of this world isn't helping you. Are these quotes suppose to make void the one I gave? I quoted that you might see the need to reconcile all scripture, not counter God against God. You have made your choice. So be it.

Most objective Christian know what that is talking about. You do not. That is telling that you need me to explain simple truths.

Hello! The previous text is talking about the abolition of the old Jewish system of religious festivals on given dates that the Jew was required to strictly keep. That has all been abolished under the new covenant. It does not prove you illusions.

Now. Address my arguments and stop your ducking and diving.

 

[WPM]

Tit-for-tat scripture quoting and making a case for the ways of this world isn't helping you. Are these quotes suppose to make void the one I gave? I quoted that you might see the need to reconcile all scripture, not counter God against God. You have made your choice. So be it.

Do you have a watch? Do you set the alarm? Do you use a calendar?

 

[ScottA]

Most objective Christian know what that is talking about. You do not. That is telling that you need me to explain simple truths.

Hello! The previous text is talking about the abolition of the old Jewish system of religious festivals on given dates that the Jew was required to strictly keep. That has all been abolished under the new covenant. It does not prove you illusions.

Now. Address my arguments and stop your ducking and diving.

So...now you assume to know the reason that observing "days and months and seasons and years" was given to Israel? You preach but do not even know what is true.

Again, you are not doing yourself any good.

What is your argument--that the things of this world are "reality?" That is not at all reality. God is reality; and the things of this world were not given for the reasons you have stated.

 

[WPM]

So...now you assume to know the reason that observing "days and months and seasons and years" was given to Israel? You preach but do not even know what is true.

Again, you are not doing yourself any good.

What is your argument--that the things of this world are "reality?" That is not at all reality. God is reality; and the things of this world were not given for the reasons you have stated.

LOL. You are delusional. Watch out for the men with the white coats. To reject time and reality around you is to confess you are losing it. You seem to live in some fanciful "mystical metaphysical gobbledegook" Gnostic bubble.

 

[WPM]

So...now you assume to know the reason that observing "days and months and seasons and years" was given to Israel? You preach but do not even know what is true.

Again, you are not doing yourself any good.

What is your argument--that the things of this world are "reality?" That is not at all reality. God is reality; and the things of this world were not given for the reasons you have stated.

Do you have a watch? Do you set the alarm? Do you use a calendar?