Right and once we see that there was a harvest in 70AD we get more scriptures that agree with each other.
Well, I agree, but the closer an interpretation is to the facts of a parable the more accurate it becomes.
The end of the world, as taught by Christ, separates the wicked from the just at the harvest, and it is coming for you.
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When we carefully consider what the parable was talking about there are no issues. Problems only arise when we try to make the parable about ourselves or the church age.
The time of harvest in the Parable is described in Rev 14, for both tare and wheat, the harvest is still future .
9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
12 Here is the [g]patience of the saints; here[h] are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
13 Then I heard a voice from heaven saying [i]to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.’ ”
“Yes,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them.”
Reaping the Earth’s Harvest
14 Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and on the cloud sat One like the Son of Man, having on His head a golden crown, and in His hand a sharp sickle. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, “Thrust in Your sickle and reap, for the time has come [j]for You to reap, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.” 16 So He who sat on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped.Reaping the Grapes of Wrath
17 Then another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.18 And another angel came out from the altar, who had power over fire, and he cried with a loud cry to him who had the sharp sickle, saying, “Thrust in your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth, for her grapes are fully ripe.” 19 So the angel thrust his sickle into the earth and gathered the vine of the earth, and threw it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20 And the winepress was trampled outside the city, and blood came out of the winepress, up to the horses’ bridles, for one thousand six hundred [k]furlongs.
And the timeline of Revelation is not entirely written in progressive events like a movie. IT moves back and forward in time to expose various truths
And for you to assume that parable has to be about you is a very arrogant position to take.
Understanding the parable that way creates the problem of there being no reasonable explanation for how the tares get into the kingdom.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
LOL. I certainly don't claim that it's all about me, but I doubt you are saying that. So, I assume you're instead saying I'm arrogant for thinking that I'm included in some way in the parable? Why is that? Jesus said "the good seed are the children of the kingdom but the tares are the children of the wicked one". I'm arrogant for believing that I'm a child of the kingdom rather than a child of the wicked one? Seriously? What in the world? Where do you get these ideas from? Do you not think you are a child of the kingdom?
In post #6 you have the tares entering the kingdom when the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our Lord. The tares are sown in His field. Does Jesus loose possession of His field then regain it again?
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
He's not saying they are in the kingdom of God that only born again believers are in. Jesus said that they are in His field, which represents His world and they grow together with the wheat until harvest, which is the end of the age. So, Jesus differentiated between His world that He reigns over and the spiritual kingdom of God that only believers are in. In His world the righteous and wicked are together. When He comes again at the end of this temporal age, He will separate out the wicked from His world and cast them into the fire and the righteous will then "shine as the sun in the kingdom of their Father" (Matt 13:43).
2 Thess 1 also describes the tares and the wheat. The people of this world are not of God. God calls us out of the world to belong to him.
And actually, makes such NEW CREATIONS in Christ. The people of this world persecute His people as they are not of the world.
To simply be born of the flesh and not the spirit means you are to God one of the tares of the field, doomed to destruction.
Jesus calls Satan the prince of this world.
Galatians 4
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise. 29 But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now. 30 Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.” 31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.
John 15
2 Thess 1
3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is fitting, because your faith grows exceedingly, and the love of every one of you all abounds toward each other, 4 so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and [a]tribulations that you endure, 5 which is manifest[b] evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer; 6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with [c]tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who [d]believe, because our testimony among you was believed.
11 Therefore we also pray always for you that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfill all the good pleasure of His goodness and the work of faith with power, 12 that the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and you in Him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
And actually, makes such NEW CREATIONS in Christ. The people of this world persecute His people as they are not of the world.
To simply be born of the flesh and not the spirit means you are to God one of the tares of the field, doomed to destruction.
Jesus calls Satan the prince of this world.
Galatians 4
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise. 29 But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now. 30 Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.” 31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.
John 15
The World’s Hatred
18 “If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. 19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. 20 Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you. If they kept My word, they will keep yours also. 21 But all these things they will do to you for My name’s sake, because they do not know Him who sent Me. 22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would have no sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin. 23 He who hates Me hates My Father also. 24 If I had not done among them the works which no one else did, they would have no sin; but now they have seen and also hated both Me and My Father. 25 But this happened that the word might be fulfilled which is written in their law, ‘They hated Me without a cause.’2 Thess 1
3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is fitting, because your faith grows exceedingly, and the love of every one of you all abounds toward each other, 4 so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and [a]tribulations that you endure, 5 which is manifest[b] evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer; 6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with [c]tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who [d]believe, because our testimony among you was believed.
11 Therefore we also pray always for you that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfill all the good pleasure of His goodness and the work of faith with power, 12 that the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and you in Him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Right, you need to have two separate kingdoms of God to make this parable work for the Amil position.
Let me ask you this, in Matthew 13:28-30 the servants are instructed to not gather up the tares lest they root up the wheat also. Should Christians have not fought against Hitler, should they have wanted to let him grow together until the harvest?
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
LOL. You have to deny being a child of the kingdom of God and say that I'm arrogant for believing that includes me (and you and all believers) for your version of the parable to work.
No, under the new covenant only believers can enter the kingdom. I’m a believer and have entered the kingdom.
You have to have two kingdoms in order to get the unsaved into the kingdom before they finally get removed at a future harvest.
It does not matter what the wheat want, it matters what God wants and does.
We all have our part to play don't we in God's grand plan for eternity.
Romans 8
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
Always in scripture the emphasis is on what God does in His field the world.
The earth is the Lord’s, and all its fullness,
The world and those who dwell therein.
For He has founded it upon the seas,
And established it upon the [a]waters.
Romans 8
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
Always in scripture the emphasis is on what God does in His field the world.
The earth is the Lord’s, and all its fullness,
The world and those who dwell therein.
For He has founded it upon the seas,
And established it upon the [a]waters.
Here’s the thing, we know those under the burden of the old covenant were allowed to continue in their practices by the apostles. That fits the parable where the wheat allowed the tares to grow together until a 70AD harvest took place.
The devil lies, in truth Jesus said everything the devil says is a lie as he is a liar and the father of lies.
So the devil has no authority to give anything, as he is also a thief who steals kills destroys.
Matthew 4
8 Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. 9 And he said to Him, “All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me.”
10 Then Jesus said to him, [b]“Away with you, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.’ ”
11 Then the devil left Him, and behold, angels came and ministered to Him.
So the devil has no authority to give anything, as he is also a thief who steals kills destroys.
Matthew 4
8 Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. 9 And he said to Him, “All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me.”
10 Then Jesus said to him, [b]“Away with you, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.’ ”
11 Then the devil left Him, and behold, angels came and ministered to Him.
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