The Doctrines of Grace

[BreadOfLife]

BreadofLife takes the entire book of revelation literally.
No symbolism no figurative language.

Never said it was fairy tales.
Its symbolism.

Now, you're just lying to save face.
I explicitly said that it was symbolic - nut NOT fictitious as YOU claim.

At least, TRY to be honest . . .

 

[Titus]

Don’t conflate YOUR inability to refute my Scriptural evidence with any “dishonesty” on my part .

You have given no Scriptural evidence so far.

 

[Titus]

Now, you're just lying to save face.
I explicitly said that it was symbolic - nut NOT fictitious as YOU claim.

At least, TRY to be honest . . .

Right,
Revelation 5:8,
- and when he took the scroll the four living creatures and twenty four elders fell down before the lamb


The lamb not a literal lamb.
The 24 elders not literal elders of the church on earth.
The four creatures. Not literal creatures.

- Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls of incense,
which are the prayers of Gods people


The harp is not a literal harp.
The golden bowls are not literal golden bowls.
The prayers of Gods people are the living saints. Not dead saints.

BreadofLife, this is your proof text for praying to the dead and the dead praying for the living.

You have given no Scriptural evidence for the catholic doctrine of praying to dead people.

The Bible only teaches we are to pray to God.

 

[amigo de christo]

And NO FAITH SYSTEM twists the Word of God more than Calvinism.
NO FAITH SYSTEM changes the nature of God more than Calvinism.
This is why it's poison: IT CHANGES THE NATURE OF GOD.

What if i told you that right now as we speak amongst ourselves
Something massive has infiltrated christendom.
And what it has done is most unholy .
It has put christendom under a spell that is not of faith at all
but rather cliams a love , really its a works , that if one has this love they KNOW GOD .
What if i told you this love has put their hopes and trust in another jesus all together .
And what if i told you this same love has also entered into the false religoins too .
The decieved one would easily expect to be decieved by this love .
BUT grown christains have sucked it down . THIS LOVE WILL NOT CORRECT SINS
IT WILL NOT CORRECT UNBELIEF IN EVEN JESUS THE CHRIST .
This love just hugs all TO HELL . and they think its love and of GOD . friend its of satan .

 

[Titus]

Now, you're just lying

Ad hominem

 

[PinSeeker]

You being a follower of John Calvin...

Is not the case. I'm a follower of Jesus, and I believe what John Calvin said about Jesus ~ as opposed to Jacobus Arminius ~ was correct.

has all of the elect going to heaven regardless of even knowing about Jesus Christ and His good news.

LOL! That they are God's elect entails their knowing Jesus ~ not just knowing about... (even all about) Jesus. In other words, God's elect are the ones given to Jesus (and He loses not one).

Hindus go to heaven if their elect.

Yes, if they know Jesus (and knowing Jesus, they don't remain Hindus).

Atheists go to heaven if their elect.

Yes, if they know Jesus (and knowing Jesus, they don't remain atheists).

Catholics go to heaven if their elect.

Yes, if they know Jesus (and knowing Jesus, they don't continue to hold to many Catholic beliefs).

No need to hear the gospel.

People hear in a variety of ways, Titus. And even just hearing doesn't guarantee anything. The real issue is whether the heart is changed or not, and that can only happen by the working of God's Holy Spirit, which is obviously according to the will of the One from Whom He is sent (the Father, of course).

Everyone is predestined to heaven...

No, not everyone... And even the predestination of God, if applied to any one person (which is the prerogative of God, of course, before any have done anything good or bad, but according to God's purpose of election), is not specifically "to heaven," but rather to be conformed to the image of Christ Jesus.

or hell.

...and no. Some are left to themselves... given over to their own selfish passions, as it were. And we all could have been, but for God's amazing grace.

Grace and peace to you, Titus.

 

[amigo de christo]

Was Billy Graham a Calvinist?

Just cause lil johnny do it , do that mean you gonna do it .
I dont look to any man whether great or small
to determine what i should or should not beleive .
THIS gringo LOOKS TO GOD and IN THAT BIBLE . And boy i suggest we all do the same .
Calivin was every bit as deadly as the RCC . EVERY BIT .
I dont look at the examples of great men or men who seem to be whatever in this world .
Man IS FALLIBLE . what i look to is THE BIBLE ,that doctrine . and CALIVIN FAILED THE MARK BIG TIME .
And know this , even the RCC , EVEN calivin , even the most deadliest of all
Never speak ALL LIES , they often all can speak some truths . EVEN as satan himself can quaote scrips .
My advice , HEY YOU , yes you , IS WE GET IN THE BIBLE for ourselves and NEVER LOOK back . This i say
with upmost love .

 

[amigo de christo]

It’s not “tolerant” or “loving” to allow disrespectful antagonists to interrupt a mass or service. I’ve seen these idiots walk into a Catholic mass and disrupt – and I have shown them the door. If YOU think that the Lord smiles on this kind of rude behavior – you don’t know Him.

That kind of “tolerance" is the virtue of the man without convictions . . .

What on earth would you have TOLD JESUS THE CHRIST
who walked into the temple WITH WHIPS to rebuke and to correct that WHORE HOUSE .
The RCC is no different . yall bought the wrong tolerance friend . BUT heck i think the prostestant realm
might be even worse about that tolerance , MAYBE . okay i say maybe . YOU all bought carnal wisdom twisted
with enough truth to make it DEADLY dangerous . but so has about the entire realm of protestant land .
I just , i say i just never seen a delusoin take captive about the entire realm of christendom
by presenting itself as love , loving , tolerance . MAN this people has bought into destruction that leadeth to great destruction .
MAY I , might i , may i please suggest WE GET BACK INTO THE BIBLE for our darn selves and very fast too .

 

[Titus]

Is not the case. I'm a follower of Jesus, and I believe what John Calvin said about Jesus ~ as opposed to Jacobus Arminius ~ was correct

Two men.
I follow neither yet calvinist's falsely accuse anyone who rejects their theology as Arminianism.

That is guilt by association fallacy.

 

[amigo de christo]

You’re right. The Catholic Church doesn’t preach this nonsense. It’s a peaceful message of the unity of people – NOT doctrine. We celebrate our common beliefs..

Even as incorrect and flawed as YOUR theology is – we share come common beliefs . . .

First honest words i seen you bring my friend . YOU DEAD on right about that . you and the prostestant realm
SURE do bring a peaceful message of unity of people , NOT DOCTRINE . BIG MISTAKE FRIEND .
but i sure do appreciate your honesty . I do thank you for that .
Hey the people in nimords day had massive unity and big time common ground as they worked as ONE mind
and one people to build that tower . THE Only problem was their unity was NOT UNDER GOD .
You just summed up your entire hope .
MEN reconciling men , TO WHAT , cause much doctrine has been denied .
Paul said mark those that cause divisions CONTRARY TO THE DOCTRINE YE HAVE LEARNED , mark and avoid THOSE .
HE DIDNT say mark those who preach SOUND doctrine , cause they haters we just need to all come together for a big ol cumbyia
You just summed up what i have always known about this realm .

 

[Titus]

LOL! That they are God's elect entails there knowing Jesus

The only way to know Jesus is how according to the Bible?
Give Scripture.

Ritajanice, claims no Bible needed in her election.
That would be like a savage in the Amazon jungle that never heard of Jesus becoming a believer in Christ.

Calvinism is not Biblical.

Give Scripture that God has believers in Jesus who have never heard or been taught the gospel?

 

[amigo de christo]

And total proof is now seen in the popes interfaith
THEY simply been reconciling men to men , NOT TO GOD .
WE are one , hey i bet the peoples in nimrods days hollered that too as they worked as one to build that tower
they all beleived would reach to heaven .
NO difference today , ONLY ITS WORSE .
The denominatoins within both the protestant realm and the RCC
work as one now to simply reconcile the denominations and false religoins to be as one . AND THE GOSPEL HAS BEEN DENIED .
HEY everyone , that all inclusive interfaith tower they thinks shall reach to Heaven to GOD
ITS all coming down on the day of the LORD .

 

[amigo de christo]

The only way to know Jesus is how according to the Bible?
Give Scripture.

Ritajanice, claims no Bible needed in her election.
That would be like a savage in the Amazon jungle that never heard of Jesus becoming a believer in Christ.

Calvinism is not Biblical.

Give Scripture that God has believers in Jesus who have never heard or been taught the gospel?

Wonderful POINT . even paul had heard the gospel , though he did not yet beleive .
In fact i would like to point out a wonderful example concering cornelious .
How come when the angel appeared to cornelious IT DIDNT JUST TELL HIM the gospel .
WHY did HE have him send for peter .
BECAUSE THAT IS HOW GOD CHOSE to save the world by the preaching of the gospel
to SAVE THOSE WHO BELEIVE . you made a darn good point my friend .

 

[PinSeeker]

Was Billy Graham a Calvinist?

No. But he did, I think, agree with many of the things Calvin said and wrote. One thing we should not do is reduce Calvin's understanding of the Bible ~ and that of Calvinists ~ to a mere five points. The only reason there is such a thing as "the five points of Calvinism" is because, using John Calvin's much, much greater body of work, they are the five answers to Jacobus Arminius's five objections with regard to, in order, man's natural condition, conditions or lack thereof placed upon man by God regarding His purpose of election, the nature of Christ's atonement, whether God's purpose of election and saving grace is resistible or not, and the eternal security of saved folk. Granted, those are all five very big and very important things, but they are all intimately related, and cannot be separated; they hang together, and really, if one is to accept any one of those five points of Calvinism, he cannot help, even despite himself, at least eventually ~ if thought of in the correct light ~ adopting and accepting them all.

Billy Graham's sticking points had more to do with topics like baptism and God's sovereignty in soteriology. He was a good Baptist fellow, and he did a lot of great work for the Lord.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[amigo de christo]

The only way to know Jesus is how according to the Bible?
Give Scripture.

Ritajanice, claims no Bible needed in her election.
That would be like a savage in the Amazon jungle that never heard of Jesus becoming a believer in Christ.

Calvinism is not Biblical.

Give Scripture that God has believers in Jesus who have never heard or been taught the gospel?

HE lies . Anyone who believes NOT the testimony that GOD gave OF THE SON
IS calling GOD A LIAR . they aint HIS . not at all .
IN fact GOD taul paul who later told king agrippa , in chapter twenty six
That Paul had to preach the gospel .
TO open their eyes
to turn them from the power of darkness to LIGHT
from the power of satan unto GOD
that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among them
that are santicified by FAITH IN ME . good point friend . good point .

 

[amigo de christo]

The only way to know Jesus is how according to the Bible?
Give Scripture.

Ritajanice, claims no Bible needed in her election.
That would be like a savage in the Amazon jungle that never heard of Jesus becoming a believer in Christ.

Calvinism is not Biblical.

Give Scripture that God has believers in Jesus who have never heard or been taught the gospel?

This is the fastest growing mindset amongst the entire realm of christendom .
That even if one confess JESUS NOT , BELIEVES NOT on HIM
that somehow they are still His if they somehow LOVED GOD and their neighbor .
WELL tell me , HOW ON earth does one EvEN LOVE GOD
if they LOVE NOT JESUS THE CHRIST .
WHEN even HE said , HAD YOU LOVED GOD you would have LOVED ME for i came FORTH OF GOD .
we are being decieved friend and many sure seem to love this big ol sin accepting unbelief acceping lovey do path to
WHAT THEY THINK IS GOD . only it aint GOD at all .

 

[Ritajanice]

The only way to know Jesus is how according to the Bible?
Give Scripture.

Ritajanice, claims no Bible needed in her election.
That would be like a savage in the Amazon jungle that never heard of Jesus becoming a believer in Christ.

Calvinism is not Biblical.

Give Scripture that God has believers in Jesus who have never heard or been taught the gospel?

No Bible is needed just as Gods word says..

Reading a Bible does not birth your spirit...the natural has no understanding of spiritual matters, for they are spiritually discerned.

You have no understanding of what the Living rebirth means= supernatural divine heart revelation.
I was chosen and predestined to become Born Again..

Many, many are Born of the Spirit having never read a Bible...that’s the part you have no understanding of...
My rebirth is biblical..

The Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are the children of God.

John 3​

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King James Version​

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3 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.


Now you show me my error?

No one can say Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.

Reading doctrine saves no one...

 

[amigo de christo]

You being a follower of John Calvin has all of the elect going to heaven regardless of even knowing about Jesus Christ and His good news.

Hindus go to heaven if their elect.

Atheists go to heaven if their elect.

Catholics go to heaven if their elect.

No need to hear the gospel.
Everyone is predestined to heaven or hell.

that is some scary stuff my friend . anyone who dares to speak such a thing
does the work and working of darkness . The gospel alone must be sounded out .
For the jailor many many many years and moons ago once asked the absolute most improtant questoin of his entirelife .
When he asked paul and silas , saying , but sirs what MUST I DO to be saved .
AND THEY ANSWERED HIM , BELIEVE YE ON JESUS THE CHRIST . thank goodness it was not interfaith they asked .

 

[amigo de christo]

Was Billy Graham a Calvinist?

best guess , i think so . the question is not whether billy graham was a calvinist
ASK rather WAS JESUS ONE . IT wont be a methodist , baptists , calvnists , Rcc , jw , mormon , adventist
SITTING THE THRONE and JUDGING THE NATIONS . ITS JESUS . and that means ITS TIME WE LEARN HIS DOCTRINE
So lets see what he said to the jews . How often i would have gathered thee
Only it was PREDISTENED
OR was it only YE WOULD NOT . learning time .
FOR GOD DESIRES the death of none . ITS THE GOSPEL we should focus on , NOT calvin or any other ism . DOCTRINE in that bible
for ourselves and fast .

 

[Ritajanice]

This is the fastest growing mindset amongst the entire realm of christendom .
That even if one confess JESUS NOT , BELIEVES NOT on HIM
that somehow they are still His if they somehow LOVED GOD and their neighbor .
WELL tell me , HOW ON earth does one EvEN LOVE GOD
if they LOVE NOT JESUS THE CHRIST .
WHEN even HE said , HAD YOU LOVED GOD you would have LOVED ME for i came FORTH OF GOD .
we are being decieved friend and many sure seem to love this big ol sin accepting unbelief acceping lovey do path to
WHAT THEY THINK IS GOD . only it aint GOD at all .

According to you.

Belief in Jesus comes from the heart , when the spirit is Born Again/ regenerated.

Only the Spirit can regenerate our spirit...anyone can say they believe in Jesus...we know Jesus in our heart/ spirit...not by reading about him in the Bible, anyone can read scripture and say they believe in Jesus.

We must be Born Again to see the Kingdom Of God, that comes by Living divine heart revelation.

Spirit gives birth to spirit?

Flesh gives birth to flesh.

Plus we do not have to constantly read a Bible and believe like you do.

I believe because I have the Spirit testifying with my spirit all day every day that I am a child of the most high...” God” @amigo de christo