The Doctrines of Grace

[amigo de christo]

Oh. Some members right on this forum state that we could sin, any sin or amount of sin...,and still be saved.

I like to know what a member believes but it's not easy in your case.

Well i believe its exactly as paul once wrote .
Shall we continue in sin that grace shall abound . GOD FORBID
do you not know that to whom you YIELD yourselves servants to OBEY
is WHOSE servant ye are .
Whether of sin unto death or of Obediance unto righteouness .
That in fact GOD wont be mocked . He who sows to the flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption
but he who sows to the SPIRIT shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting .
GOD dont hold rainbows and hundred dolla bills hollering ya best life now .
WE been called , BOUGHT and paid for and our whole duty is to HONOR HE who saved us .

 

[Ritajanice]

◄ Romans 6 ►

Berean Standard Bible Par ▾ Dead to Sin, Alive to God (2 Corinthians 4:7–18) 1What then shall we say? Shall we continue in sin so that grace may increase?2Certainly not! How can we who died to sin live in it any longer? 3Or aren’t you aware that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4We were therefore buried with Him through baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may walk in newness of life. 5For if we have been united with Him like this in His death, we will certainly also be united with Him in His resurrection. 6We know that our old self was crucified with Him so that the body of sin might be rendered powerless, that we should no longer be slaves to sin. 7For anyone who has died has been freed from sin. 8Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with Him. 9For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, He cannot die again; death no longer has dominion over Him. 10The death He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life He lives, He lives to God. 11So you too must count yourselves dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its desires.13Do not present the parts of your body to sin as instruments of wickedness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and present the parts of your body to Him as instruments of righteousness. 14For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace. The Wages of Sin 15What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law, but under grace? Certainly not! 16Do you not know that when you offer yourselves as obedient slaves, you are slaves to the one you obey, whether you are slaves to sin leading to death, or to obedience leading to righteousness? 17But thanks be to God that, though you once were slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were committed. 18You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness. 19I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. Just as you used to offer the parts of your body in slavery to impurity and to escalating wickedness, so now offer them in slavery to righteousness leading to holiness. 20For when you were slaves to sin, you were free of obligation to righteousness.21What fruit did you reap at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? The outcome of those things is death. 22But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the fruit you reap leads to holiness, and the outcome is eternal life. 23For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[amigo de christo]

​

◄ Romans 6 ►

​

Berean Standard Bible Par ▾ Dead to Sin, Alive to God (2 Corinthians 4:7–18) 1What then shall we say? Shall we continue in sin so that grace may increase?2Certainly not! How can we who died to sin live in it any longer? 3Or aren’t you aware that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4We were therefore buried with Him through baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may walk in newness of life. 5For if we have been united with Him like this in His death, we will certainly also be united with Him in His resurrection. 6We know that our old self was crucified with Him so that the body of sin might be rendered powerless, that we should no longer be slaves to sin. 7For anyone who has died has been freed from sin. 8Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with Him. 9For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, He cannot die again; death no longer has dominion over Him. 10The death He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life He lives, He lives to God. 11So you too must count yourselves dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its desires.13Do not present the parts of your body to sin as instruments of wickedness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and present the parts of your body to Him as instruments of righteousness. 14For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace. The Wages of Sin 15What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law, but under grace? Certainly not! 16Do you not know that when you offer yourselves as obedient slaves, you are slaves to the one you obey, whether you are slaves to sin leading to death, or to obedience leading to righteousness? 17But thanks be to God that, though you once were slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were committed. 18You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness. 19I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. Just as you used to offer the parts of your body in slavery to impurity and to escalating wickedness, so now offer them in slavery to righteousness leading to holiness. 20For when you were slaves to sin, you were free of obligation to righteousness.21What fruit did you reap at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? The outcome of those things is death. 22But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the fruit you reap leads to holiness, and the outcome is eternal life. 23For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

let us always remember that it is not society nor man nor its ever changing ways that determine what sin is
What GOD calleth evil let none call good . and what GOD calls GOOD let none call evil . i see far too many rainbows
in churches , far too many hundred dollah bills yall sermons and i see the deadliest and worst of it all
being embraced and called grace , UNBELIEF . KISS not the korans and budda stautes
Warn the lost religoins THERE BE NO HOPE in that darkness but TIME to HOPE IN JESUS THE CHRIST .

 

[amigo de christo]

Rather odd that today what most call love
sure seems to honor unbeleif and sins . WARN A NEIGHBOR .
What many see as this big ol love path to GOD
sure denies the dire need to BELEIVE ON JESUS the CHRIST and it sure seems to accept sins too .

 

[amigo de christo]

KISS the SON and not the golden bull of interfaith . cause you cant serve BOTH . that is A DELUSOIN

 

[Titus]

I am dumbfounded how you understood me such that this post need be written.

I don't understand you.
That's why I'm asking if you believe this?
I never said you did believe this.

 

[amigo de christo]

Every word in that bible is true .
With GOD is nothing impossible . Sampson really could by the POWER of GOD have easily slain a thousand men .
is there really anything to hard for GOD . There is a reason i brought this today
TO REMIND us EVERY WORD of GOD BE TRUE and let no man try and say such things were fables .
I MEAN GOD DID SPEAK all things into existance , IS it really so hard for GOD to have given a man strength to slay a thousand .

 

[Ritajanice]

let us always remember that it is not society nor man nor its ever changing ways that determine what sin is
What GOD calleth evil let none call good . and what GOD calls GOOD let none call evil . i see far too many rainbows
in churches , far too many hundred dollah bills yall sermons and i see the deadliest and worst of it all
being embraced and called grace , UNBELIEF . KISS not the korans and budda stautes
Warn the lost religoins THERE BE NO HOPE in that darkness but TIME to HOPE IN JESUS THE CHRIST .

I know where you are coming from...what ever is in our heart, must come out, my neighbour has cut ties with me, because I can’t stop talking about Born Again.....I’ve asked God to help me not to keep repeating it in every thread...,LOL...it’s a big part of who we are, what we both post isn’t it @amigo de christo ?

 

[Ritajanice]

Every word in that bible is true .
With GOD is nothing impossible . Sampson really could by the POWER of GOD have easily slain a thousand men .
is there really anything to hard for GOD . There is a reason i brought this today
TO REMIND us EVERY WORD of GOD BE TRUE and let no man try and say such things were fables .
I MEAN GOD DID SPEAK all things into existance , IS it really so hard for GOD to have given a man strength to slay a thousand .

Brother, what we think is impossible...is most definitely possible to God, there is nothing that he cannot do!

 

[amigo de christo]

I know where you are coming from...what ever is in our heart, must come out, my neighbour has cut ties with me, because I can’t stop talking about Born Again.....I’ve asked God to help me not to keep repeating it in every thread...,LOL...it’s a big part of who we are, what we both post isn’t it @amigo de christo ?

The truth must always be spoken and what one is led to do of GOD they must do . Rita interfaith is deadly .
The churches must quickly repent of this inclusive love stuff and start serving GOD no matter the cost .
ONLY TRUTH sets one free , and no lie is of the truth . Now to the trenches the last hours is upon this world
and the ONLY HOPE IT HAS IS JESUS the CHRIST .

 

[amigo de christo]

Brother, what we think is impossible...is most definitely possible to God, there is nothing that he cannot do!

Cept DENY HIMSELF . that HE cannot do . GOD is WHO HE IS and HIS GLORY shines forth .
JESUS IS THE GLORY of GOD
and budda nor muhammed nor any other religon or name gonna save this people .
ITS TIME for the church TO KISS THE SON and not the golden bull of interfaith . AND we cannot DO BOTH .
its one or its the other . Now to the trenches in these last hours to declare truth to all .

 

[amigo de christo]

Brother, what we think is impossible...is most definitely possible to God, there is nothing that he cannot do!

When you rewatch that part of the video
visulaize those thousand and the false doctrines and lies of men
WHICH BY JESUS THE CHRIST we will not fall prey to those fiery arrows of deception .
Sampson had no fear for GOD was with HIM
David knew HE would defeat the giant , FOR GOD was with HIM .
And if you read notice that when the Giant started coming towards david
HE RAN right at it with no fear . We cannot fear man or what he can do . We must simply speak the truth
and live the truth by the POWER of the SPIRIT , of GOD who is our strength and shall give us strength through it all .

 

[Ritajanice]

The truth must always be spoken and what one is led to do of GOD they must do

Amen!...but I think that we must respect other members threads, that aren’t talking about what you and I preach a lot of the time my friend..by the way, I have missed you..I’ve had you
on ignore for ages.LOL xx...taken you off ignore now, hehehe.

 

[Ritajanice]

David knew HE would defeat the giant , FOR GOD was with HIM

Yes, Yes and yes....God is with me too!!!....I needed this confirmation...Praise God....lately I’ve been thinking that he has forgotten about me....a darn lie from the enemy!

 

[amigo de christo]

Amen!...but I think that we must respect other members threads, that aren’t talking about what you and I preach a lot of the time my friend..by the way, I have missed you..I’ve had you
on ignore for ages.LOL xx...taken you off ignore now, hehehe.

What the church needs to try and understand is
if one sees smoke coming from the roof and knows their are those in danger
already even under part of that influence , that soul is gonna warn as GOD leads HIM to do so .
Its kinda like this .
If you were sitting in building in a room and everyone was discussing
a certain topic
and you seen smoke and knew they were in danger , you gonna just keep tallking or start warning .
Rita , i am telling us all that this inclusive lovey do stuff really has impacted people
and its leading them right to the pit .

 

[GRACE ambassador]

op: Doctrines of Grace?

q: Can Grace really be understood without Considering The Other Part of God's Complete Picture:

Undiluted Wrath And Undiluted Grace!

Amen.

 

[PinSeeker]

Just to bring up one aspect of this discussion. Personal sins are not the basis for eternal condemnation.

In a sense, that's correct; it's sinfulness, and unrepentance. But, we will all be judged according to what we have done... the fruit he or she has borne (or not).

Nobody is condemned to the lake of fire because of their sins.

Yes and no; in one sense, you're right, is is rather because of sinfulness, being dead in sin, which is a state of the heart. But in another sense yes, that of the determining factor of our personal judgment by Christ by our works or lack thereof and thus having been on either His right or His left (Matthew 25:31-46).

Christ paid the penalty for all sins; that's the good news (gospel).

In one sense, what we might call the macro, yes; His sacrifice was sufficient for all... unlimited in that sense. But there is a different sense in which this is not true, that he only really ransomed those given to Him by the Father.

In fact, God did not impute the sins onto the person who committed them...

LOL! Well, he didn't have to impute them in that case, precisely because that person committed them. <smile> I guess you mean to say here... maybe; I don't want to put words in your mouth... that God did not impute the sins onto folks who did not commit them... The issue is sinfulness, being dead in sin, a state of being inherited from our first parents. And we are all born, even conceived, in this condition, and thus in need of God's mercy/compassion and His grace, which can only come about if granted because of the work of Jesus in the cross, which, as I said, makes it possible for all mankind ~ so therefore unlimited in that respect ~ but only effectual for those God gives Jesus, His elect ~ so therefore limited in that respect.

...put all sins on Christ's account.

Only for those who believe, which only results in having been born again of the Spirit.

Today, personal sins are only related to temporary condemnation, not eternal condemnation.

Untrue. "There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus" (Romans 8:1). This is despite the fact that we still sin; though we are unfaithful, God is faithful. Now, this does not mean there are no consequences for sin, either in this life or the next. But condemnation and consequence are two very different things. God is our Father, and He disciplines those He loves (Hebrews ). Any good parent disciplines his or her child, but even so does not condemn said child. Unless... he or she is a bad parent... But God, of course, is a good God, a good Father.

Grace and peace to you, KUWN.

 

[KUWN]

In one sense, what we might call the macro, yes; His sacrifice was sufficient for all... unlimited in that sense. But there is a different sense in which this is not true, that he only really ransomed those given to Him by the Father.

Actually it is true on all accounts. I have been quoting these 3 verses to show that what I say is correct. They are:
2 Cor 5.19, 2 Pt 2.1, and 1st John 2.2. There are plenty of other verses, but these 2 are obvious.

 

[KUWN]

but only effectual for those God gives Jesus, His elect ~ so therefore limited in that respect.

Well you are a little off here. All the verses that talk about unbelievers' sins being paid for have no qualifier saying that there is a potential payment, or his payment must be met with confessing sins. Unless you understand this, you will not get clarity on what happen at the Cross.

 

[PinSeeker]

You should learn what you believe Pin. If you're going to be reformed... BE REFORMED. Find out what the reformed mean and stop trying to confuse those that can be confused. This is VERY dishonest of you.

<eye roll> You should stop misrepresenting it... which is either because you do it unknowingly, because of misperception, or otherwise, but neither is good. If you did that, you might take back what you say here, because it's ridiculous.

Let me make this clear to some that might be reading along and don't understand what you post very well.....

GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD GOD LOVES EVERY ONE OF HIS CREATURES THAT HE CREATED.
ANY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE CREATURES COULD HAVE THEIR SOUL SAVED FOREVER
BY SIMPLY DOING THE FOLLOWING:

1. Believe in God. God has revealed Himself to man from the beginning of time.
Romans 1:19-21

2. Obey God. This is what Jesus asks.
John 3:36
John 14:15

This is absolutely true, and I and all good Reformed folk do ~ and Augustine, and Martin Luther, and John Calvin, and all the Reformers did ~ absolutely agree.

Everything else is talk.

<chuckles> Not if it's from God's Word... <smile> ...which, the record is clear; just a cursory look back at my posts will show that they have been saturated with quotes from God's Word...

How distorted of a view of God you have. What you're saying above is: GOD DECREES, PREDESTINATES EVERYTHING BUT That doesn't mean He approves of it or is the author of it.

Right. And it's true. The concept is as simple as and parallel to the fact that not everything mentioned in God's Word is approved of or sanctioned by God. For example... well, just a cursory reading of what some people did in the Bible was "evil in the sight of the Lord," so yeah, it's there in God's Word, but obviously God didn't approve, nor was He the author of those perpetrators who did those things.

I make no further comment...

Oh, if that were only true...

WHY would God decree something He does not agree with? Rhetorical question of course.

Okay, well, I'm not going to treat it as rhetorical, because it's a good question. I get loud and clear that you're saying, in effect, that he would not decree anything that He doesn't agree with, but... well, two things:

• As I have said, you misunderstand what a decree, in the sense of God's eternal decree, is, namely that it's not an "order to do something," but rather a prescription for how things will be.
• Regarding people, this decree is not really what they will do but how they will live their lives, to put it succinctly... so, some will live out their lives this way, and others will live out their lives very differently, and in this way both will play their part in suiting His overall purpose and His glory. And this is exactly what Paul is talking about in Romans 9, when he writes, "What if God, desiring to show His wrath and to make known His power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of His glory for vessels of mercy, which He has prepared beforehand for glory ~ even us whom He has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?"

Try to learn the difference between
DECREE
and
ALLOW

If you were to understand what I say directly above about this decreeing, you might then see that God's decreeing consists of, allows for, both His active causing of things and His allowing other things. In this way, all His purposes are served and come to fruition.

As I've said, EVERY Christian denomination EXCEPT the reformed believe God allows.

Obviously, "the reformed" (which is not really a denomination; some denominations are reformed in their understanding of Scripture and some are not) do believe that God allows... well, everything, in one sense, but in another ~ not actively causing ~ also.

ONLY the reformed believe God decrees.

Well, true, but not true in the sense of your understanding of His decreeing. That's the problem. At least one of them; I would exhort you to do, using a good concordance, a wordsearch through the Bible on "decree." You might change your mind, at least somewhat.

God is not a God of confusion.

Absolutely true. <smile> People can certainly cause confusion, though, especially with regard to God's Word, but still, it is what it is. As Peter says (quoting from Isaiah, who quotes God Himself), "All flesh is like grass and all its glory like the flower of grass. The grass withers, and the flower falls, but the word of the Lord remains forever" (1 Peter 1:24-25).

Hyper is a cute way of saying CALVINIST. A CALVINIST IS A CALVINIST.

Well, a Calvinist is a Calvinist, for sure, but a hyper-Calvinist has a distorted view of Calvin's actual words and writings, in the manner that he or she overstates the sovereignty of God even to minimization of and even to the exclusion of human will and/or responsibility. That's what hyper-Calvinists do, because of their misunderstandings of Calvin himself and his systematic theology. The link I provided was a good one; obviously you just dismissed it out of hand, which is okay, but it's, well, it's burying your head in the sand, really.

...at least accept that what you believe WAS NEVER BELIEVED THROUGHOUT THE HISTORY OF THE CHURCH...

LOL! Except for at least the fourth and fifth century church (really the first, as we see in Acts, and as I've quoted from all of the New Testament writers, from Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John (and Luke again) and Paul and Peter and James and the writer of Hebrews (and then of course back to John).

Funny Pin.

Thanks, Gosh. <smile>

Read the Insitutes.

I have. You do the same. But, it's not Scripture, so don't equate the two as divinely inspired. But... John Calvin was right... <smile>

The more one reads, the more horrific it becomes.

If one approaches it with preconceptions, it can seem that way, yes.

I'm sure you understand that you cannot even be secure in your salvation...

Oh wait, but you don't believe in "OSAS," right? So here you're saying one's salvation in Christ is secure? That's a little curious...

...because you don't really know that God really chose you.

Well, I do, because I have faith, which... is assurance from God. And a gift of the Spirit, which will never be revoked. I hope you have that, too.

No need to read Pin. It's all the same.

Ah, ignorance is bliss, I guess... <smile>

Ignoring it doesn't make it so, Gosh.

If God chooses some for salvation, what happens to the rest? Right. They go to hell.

And if you read Romans 1, you'll see why, at least in the case of God. Here, I'll help (emphasis mine):

"...although they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks to Him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator... For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions... since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done..."​

DOUBLE PREDESTINATION.

HYPER CALVINISTS (not historical Calvinists).

But yes, you have explained calvinism

Yes, but you still misconstrue, which makes me think it's intentional. Well, considering the fact that you won't even consider hyper-Calvinism, maybe it's just ignorance. Or... maybe it's both. But one thing it's not... it's not neither. <smile>

Hyper calvinism IS Calvinism.

Nope. But hyper-Calvinists think so.

I won't be replying.

I mean, that would be great! <smile> But considering you've said that several times now... <smile> But yeah, better to keep your mouth shut and be thought ignorant than open your mouth and remove all doubt (as you have several times now)...

But retain the right to make comments as I see fit.

Ah. "I've stopped! But, you know, not really..."

Grace and peace to you.