The Doctrines of Grace

[JLB]

That is your opinion of course.

No it’s actually the context as you can plainly see.


I listed the actual scripture and I posted and emphasized the key words.


Romans 9 contextually involves election for purpose NOT election for salvation.


…for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls.
Romans 9:11


The purpose God elected the Jews was to be the bloodline lineage of Jesus Christ.

That is the context.


who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen. Romans 9:4-5


Can you discuss these words, rather than just deny them?

• that the purpose of God according to election might stand

The purpose of God according to election might stand.


This is the context that Paul is writing about.





JLB

 

[JLB]

then some one please explain this faith comes by hearing
14How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. 18But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. 19But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. 20But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.

Yes. We must hear the Gospel by which we receive faith, then we must believe what we hear in order to be saved.


No one is saved without hearing and believing.

 

[JLB]

<smile>

<smile>


This question comes up so, so often. Who is Israel, JLB? Who are the true Jews of God? You might remember what Paul has said in Romans 2:28-29, that "no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical... a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God." So, then skipping to Romans 9:24 regarding God's elect, "even us whom He has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles..."

So here again... this is a bit like the conversation between me and Lambano, here... even in talking about Jews, Paul is saying someone may be a Jew in one sense but at the same time not a Jew in a different sense. That's kind of a mouthful... <smile> Okay, to clarify, one can be a Jew ethnically, but at the same time not a Jew spiritually. And vice-versa, one can be a spiritual Jew and thus a Jew of God and part of God's Israel even while, ethnically speaking, he or she is ethnically not a Jew but a Gentile. Yes, there are and will be ethnic Jews who are also Jews of God... not only citizens of physical Israel but also made to be members of God's Israel.

So finally then in Romans 11:25-26, after speaking of being grafted in (Gentile believers) and re-grafted in (ethnic Jewish believers), Paul writes, "a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in... in this way all Israel will be saved."

Do you see?

Grace and peace to you.

The purpose God elected the Jews was to be the bloodline lineage of Jesus Christ.

That is the context.


who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen. Romans 9:4-5


Can you discuss these words, rather than just deny them?

• that the purpose of God according to election might stand

The purpose of God according to election might stand.


This is the context that Paul is writing about.

 

[PinSeeker]

The purpose God elected the Jews was to be the bloodline lineage of Jesus Christ.

Absolutely disagree. God's elect consists of all those called by God, which ultimately will be a great multitude that no man can number, from every tongue, tribe, and nation. These are the true Jews of God.

who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen. Romans 9:4-5


Can you discuss these words, rather than just deny them?

LOL! I'm not "denying" them, JLB. I'm just trying to flesh out those specific points to you. This is a personal letter from Paul to the church in Rome ~ and to us by extension, because what he's saying to them is very relevant to us today, too. I am denying... well, refuting, rather, your apparent view of who God's Jews and God's Israel are and is. I'm glad you point to that verse (Romans 9:4-5); you might read on to the next two or three verses ~ not a big ask ~ and see that Paul writes, "But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but 'Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.' This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring." And that includes Gentiles... Well, Gentile believers...

And I would point out Ephesians 2, where this same Paul, writing to Gentile believers in Ephesus, says, "you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. For He Himself is our peace, Who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that He might create in Himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. And He came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near. For through Him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. In Him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit."

And finally Hebrews 1:1 ~ although I could go on... ~ where the writer says (to all of us), "Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days He has spoken to us by his Son, whom He appointed the Heir of all things, through Whom also He created the world..."

Together with the Israelites of old and all ethnic Jewish believers, we Gentile believers are just as much Jews of God, just as of God's Israel as they are. Do you deny that? I mean, you can, and I certainly will not think less of you for it, but... <smile>

• that the purpose of God according to election might stand

The purpose of God according to election might stand.

Hmmm... <chuckles>

This is the context that Paul is writing about.

Well, within the context of the specific point he was making there in Romans 9, sure.

Grace and peace to you, JLB.

 

[Scott Downey]

No it’s actually the context as you can plainly see.


I listed the actual scripture and I posted and emphasized the key words.


Romans 9 contextually involves election for purpose NOT election for salvation.


…for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls.
Romans 9:11


The purpose God elected the Jews was to be the bloodline lineage of Jesus Christ.

That is the context.


who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen. Romans 9:4-5


Can you discuss these words, rather than just deny them?

• that the purpose of God according to election might stand

The purpose of God according to election might stand.


This is the context that Paul is writing about.





JLB

The purpose of God extends to your salvation and everyone God has saved. God has many different purposes.

Romans 8
27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Ephesians 1:11
In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,

 

[BreadOfLife]

I never understood the argument," that you would not have the bible without us/ the Catholic church" when long before them were those who kept the books read on ever Sabbath and yet how little that mattered in their end in the whole scheme of things.

It’s probably not your fault because you’ve never been exposed to this truth.
It is an undeniable fact of history.

The Synod of Rome (382) is where the canon was first formally identified – ALL 73 (not 66) Books.
- 11 years after that, it was confirmed at the Synod of Hippo (393).

- 4 years later, at the Council (or Synod) of Carthage (397), it was yet again confirmed. The bishops wrote at the end of their document, "But let Church beyond sea (Rome) be consulted about confirming this canon". There were 44 bishops, including St. Augustine who signed the document.

- 7 years later, in 405, in a letter from Pope Innocent I to Exsuperius, Bishop of Toulouse, he reiterated the canon.

- 14 years after that, at the 2nd Council (Synod) of Carthage (419) the canon was again formally confirmed.

The Canon of Scripture was officially closed at the Council of Trent in the 16th century because of the perversions happening within Protestantism and the random editing and deleting of books from the Canon.

Have you ever asked yourself why Protestant Bibles have removed 7 Books from the Old Testament?

 

[BreadOfLife]

lol

The bible was completed in the 1st century.

God did not wait 400 years to put complete his word.

The Canon of Scripture was not compiled/declared in the first century.

Before the 4th century – there were MANY Books that were considered to be “Scripture” and read from pulpits. Some of these Books include the Epistles of Barnabas, the Shepherd of Hermas, the Protoevangelium of James, the Gospel of Peter, etc.

It was the Catholic Church in 382, guided by the Holy Spirit to all truth (John 16:12-15) that decided which Books belong in the Canon.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The Canon of Scripture was not compiled/declared in the first century.

Yeah it was. Peter called pauls letters scripture.

Before the 4th century – there were MANY Books that were considered to be “Scripture” and read from pulpits. Some of these Books include the Epistles of Barnabas, the Shepherd of Hermas, the Protoevangelium of James, the Gospel of Peter, etc.

It was the Catholic Church in 382, guided by the Holy Spirit to all truth (John 16:12-15) that decided which Books belong in the Canon.

yawn. whatever dude

God did not wait centuries to put his word together. Put faith in God. not men who tell you want to believe

 

[BreadOfLife]

The transliteration of both is charitoō :

Luke 1:28 ('favored one')

Ephesians 1:6 ('God freely bestowed')

Both refer to giving acts of God, the giving of grace, even great grace.

Wrong.
The meanings of words change or expand, depending on the participle and tense.

For example - ”drink” is not the same as “drank”, “drinking” or “drunk”. And, depending on the usage of the word, “drunk - the meaning changes
1. “He consumed too much wine and got drunk.”
2. “I have drunk a glass of water.”

There is also drunker, drunken and drunkest.
The SAME variety if tense and participle is true for Charis, Charitoō and Kecharitomene.

Adding significant concepts and ideas to Scripture by anyone is a no-no (Jesus, Revelation 22).

Like Sola Scriptura . . .

You're certainly not alone in thinking that. And it's true, but the Bible is very clear that if we do fall, it is because we never were given that saving grace and security in the first place. If we are in Christ, there is no more condemnation for sin (Romans 8:1), and nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord (Romans 8:39). And Peter (you know, the guy who you think is the first pope) says God "has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time" (1 Peter 1:3-5).

For those that do "fall from grace," it is because ~ if they remain having fallen from that grace ~ they never received that grace in the first place. In other words, as John says in 1 John 2, those people go out from us (from among the people of God) because they are not of us (not of God, like us), that if they had been of us, they would have continued with us, but they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us (v.19).

WRONG again.
The verses I presented are about born-again, converted believers who have lost their way. For example:

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”

This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation. The Greek ford
for “knowledge” used here is NOT the usual word (oida/gnosis). This is talking about a full, experiential knowledge (epidnosis). This verse is about CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.

For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.

Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (epidnosis) of Christ – CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

God is infinitely faithful. We are NOT.
He will not abandon us. It is WE who abandon HIM . . .

This is a conflation of two things, on one hand, I think by "slam-dunk event," you're saying a "one-time," once-and-for-all" event. Really, the easiest way to clarify this is that salvation is both a one-time event and a process at the same time. In other words, we have been saved ~ justified by God and born again of the Spirit; this is a one-time event, after which our Christian walk begins ~ and we are being saved (kept in the power of the Spirit to the day of Christ and being sanctified, made more like Jesus) at the same time. This is what we call the "now and the not yet" of salvation. But what God began in us, His good work in us, will ~ not might, but will ~ be brought to completion at the day of Christ (Philippians 1:6).

...and a lack of understanding on the other: once we are justified in our sin by the father and subsequently born again of the Spirit, God has begun His good work in us, and this will ~ will, not "might" ~ be brought to completion at the day of Christ (Philippians 1:6).

And yet, those with Epignosis (Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 2:20-22) can be in danger of losing their secure position (2 Pet. 3:17).

The fact the God wills the salvation of ALL people (1 Tim. 2:3-4) doesn’t mean that ALL will be saved . . .

There's no "cooperation" with God's grace... only our inevitable response to it, which is praise. Imperfect praise, but praise none the less. As John says, we love because He first loved us (1 John 4:19). God's grace is God's grace. And ours is ours, and we are called to have grace because we have been given grace by God. I think you would agree with that, but it is what it is.

Which is sure, and thus a certainty, even now, because it is the power of God, by His Spirit. Absolutely.

Grace and peace to you.

Our response to Good’s grace IS out cooperation.

This is the entire basis for Jesus’s rebuke of the Pharisees (Matt. 12:31). They refused to cooperate with the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit. Jesus refers to this as “blasphemy against the Spirit”.

 

[Verily]

It’s probably not your fault because you’ve never been exposed to this truth.
It is an undeniable fact of history.

The Synod of Rome (382) is where the canon was first formally identified – ALL 73 (not 66) Books.
- 11 years after that, it was confirmed at the Synod of Hippo (393).

- 4 years later, at the Council (or Synod) of Carthage (397), it was yet again confirmed. The bishops wrote at the end of their document, "But let Church beyond sea (Rome) be consulted about confirming this canon". There were 44 bishops, including St. Augustine who signed the document.

- 7 years later, in 405, in a letter from Pope Innocent I to Exsuperius, Bishop of Toulouse, he reiterated the canon.

- 14 years after that, at the 2nd Council (Synod) of Carthage (419) the canon was again formally confirmed.

The Canon of Scripture was officially closed at the Council of Trent in the 16th century because of the perversions happening within Protestantism and the random editing and deleting of books from the Canon.

Have you ever asked yourself why Protestant Bibles have removed 7 Books from the Old Testament?

All the books are there to examine, nothing is really deleted, I have read some of the deleted books, they exist on online pull down menus to research yourself.

Its the whole plea of self importance while standing on the whole "But we stapled the word of God together" (Ok, that was a little tongue n' cheek) but even if that be the case (which I am not really arguing against) there were those who were before the Word was made flesh who kept all the same books prior to his first coming and they could have said the same thing, " But we are the chosen who stapled all the words of God together" so look to us (the true people of God etc). I am simplifying this a bit I know, but thats how it comes off. And THEY were examples for OUR instruction and there isnt that much that is new under the sun especially when that can get thrown in your face when they appeal to others to listen to them, while they have truly gone off in left field with some of their doctrines (or dogmas, or whatever they call them these days).

 

[Ezra]

Am I a regenerated man in Christ because I believe in the 5 points of TULIP?

you are a regenerated man in Christ because you are born again 5 points tulips don't do it the spirit brings life . problem with Calvinism they take words and redefine them to fit there doctrine. every place i been in a forum its all the same ..i use to be in carm every calv. poster was the exact same way. you folks are well schooled and could give j.w a run for there money .. there well schooled also it seems instead of jesus way truth life... its Calvinism way truth life and be honest i fail to see how a Calvinist gets saved . i men there is no need to preach ..just sit around hope God picks you to become elect

 

[PinSeeker]

Wrong.

Like Sola Scriptura . . .

Which you've probably ~ oh, wait ~ the Catholic church has attached its own little convenient (errant) meaning to...

WRONG again.

The verses I presented are about born-again, converted believers who have lost their way. For example:

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”

This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation.

Goodness gracious. The way that verse starts out, "For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth," indicates clearly that the people the writer is talking about there who do go on sinning deliberately are not ~ and never were ~ genuine believers... have never genuinely embraced the gospel in a way that has resulted in a life of faith, obedience, and the bearing of the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23). Besides that, this is just after he has said, "...let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful." Do we assure ourselves, BOL? If so, what kind of assurance is that? No, faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen, and the One Who gives us that assurance is God, the One Who convicts is the Holy Spirit. Do you not believe these things are absolutely rock solid? Because they are. That's the very point of the writer of Hebrews.

God is infinitely faithful. We are NOT. He will not abandon us.

Absolutely. The ironic thing about you saying that is that much of what you have said and are saying in this very post refute that. That's a curious thing indeed.

It is WE who abandon HIM . . .

If we are His, if He has given us to Jesus, yes, we still, in this life sin, but we do not abandon Him, because we are kept in our faith ~ again, God's assurance and the conviction of the Holy Spirit ~ by the power of the Spirit. Even the real credit and glory for our perseverance in the faith goes to Him. As the writer of Hebrews says, Jesus is the author and the perfector/finisher of our faith. Yet again, your "first pope"... Peter... is crystal clear: "(God) has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."

Our response to Good’s grace IS out cooperation.

Okay, that's sort of a clumsy way to put it, but I'll agree, but say that our "cooperative response" is because of God's work in us, by His Spirit, by His giving us faith and by the Spirit's ongoing work in us, which, as you agreed before, is the process of sanctification, and He will not fail in that. Nor, of course, will He be unfaithful.

Okay, That's enough. Wow.

Grace and peace to you, BreadOfLife.

 

[ElectedbyHim]

you are a regenerated man in Christ because you are born again 5 points tulips don't do it the spirit brings life . problem with Calvinism they take words and redefine them to fit there doctrine. every place i been in a forum its all the same ..i use to be in carm every calv. poster was the exact same way. you folks are well schooled and could give j.w a run for there money .. there well schooled also it seems instead of jesus way truth life... its Calvinism way truth life and be honest i fail to see how a Calvinist gets saved . i men there is no need to preach ..just sit around hope God picks you to become elect

i men there is no need to preach ..just sit around hope God picks you to become elect

That is not how it works.

No one knows who will be born again (regenerated). We preach the gospel and God draws His elect to be saved.

you folks are well schooled and could give j.w a run for there money

I do not know about that.

All I know is I study the Bible and theology.

I believed the doctrines of Grace before I knew it was called Calvinism.

The 5 points are just taught everywhere in the Bible.

I never saw in the Bible that a spirituall dead man can choose salvation for himself, its just not there.

Human pride says we can choose salvation.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Scott Downey]

you are a regenerated man in Christ because you are born again 5 points tulips don't do it the spirit brings life . problem with Calvinism they take words and redefine them to fit there doctrine. every place i been in a forum its all the same ..i use to be in carm every calv. poster was the exact same way. you folks are well schooled and could give j.w a run for there money .. there well schooled also it seems instead of jesus way truth life... its Calvinism way truth life and be honest i fail to see how a Calvinist gets saved . i men there is no need to preach ..just sit around hope God picks you to become elect

How did you come to believe in Christ?

 

[PinSeeker]

No one knows who will be born again (regenerated).

Well, except God... <smile> I mean, you know that, of course. But even that is not descriptive of what His foreknowledge, as Paul alludes to it in Romans 8:29, is. It cannot be a mere cognitive "knowing ahead of time," because in that sense God foreknows everybody and everything, and Paul, in talking about "those whom God foreknew," is obviously referring to a group of people less than the whole of humanity. And it is important to know that to know someone in the Bible is often used in the sense of loving them greatly, both in the Old Testament Hebrew and the New Testament Greek; this is the sense in which Paul speaks of God's foreknowledge. You know that, too, I'm sure. But others not so much...

We preach the gospel and God draws His elect to be saved.

Yes, as Jesus says, "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day" (John 6:44).

The 5 points are just taught everywhere in the Bible.

They are, yes, but you know, I'm sure, that John Calvin's theology was never limited to a mere five points. What we call today the five points of Calvinism are really John Calvin's five responses (from his much greater, comprehensive body of work) to Jacobus Arminius's five objections back in the early seventeenth century. And those objections were soundly defeated publicly at the Synod of Dordt in 1618-19..

Human pride says we can choose salvation.

Ah, well, yes, humanly speaking, but really, human pride says we can be... are... our own god, and therefore are not in need of salvation... <smile> But it was not always this way, and will be set right again in the fullness of God's time. God is not "making all new things," but rather making all things new.

Grace and peace to you.

And to you!

 

[BreadOfLife]

Which you've probably ~ oh, wait ~ the Catholic church has attached its own little convenient (errant) meaning to...

No – it’s simply a false doctrine that is not supported by the very Scriptures it purports to represent.

Goodness gracious. The way that verse starts out, "For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth," indicates clearly that the people the writer is talking about there who do go on sinning deliberately are not ~ and never were ~ genuine believers... have never genuinely embraced the gospel in a way that has resulted in a life of faith, obedience, and the bearing of the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23). Besides that, this is just after he has said, "...let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful."

WRONG.

Aa I indicated before – the use of the word “Epignosis” here indicates a person who has a full, experiential and relational knowledge of Christ. The normal Greek words for knowledge are oida or gnosis. Epignosis is the kind of knowledge that married person has of their spouse.

Do we assure ourselves, BOL? If so, what kind of assurance is that? No, faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen, and the One Who gives us that assurance is God, the One Who convicts is the Holy Spirit. Do you not believe these things are absolutely rock solid? Because they are. That's the very point of the writer of Hebrews.

Absolutely – IF we remain faithful and in His kindness (Rom. 11:22).

Absolutely. The ironic thing about you saying that is that much of what you have said and are saying in this very post refute that. That's a curious thing indeed.

How is the fact that, as sinners who may not endure in faith, we can endanger our secure position, as Scripture warns (2 Pet. 3:17)?

If we are His, if He has given us to Jesus, yes, we still, in this life sin, butt we do not abandon Him, because we are kept in our faith ~ again, God's assurance and the conviction of the Holy Spirit ~ by the power of the Spirit. Even the real credit and glory for our perseverance in the faith goes to Him. As the writer of Hebrews says, Jesus is the author and the perfector/finisher of our faith. Yet again, your "first pope"... Peter... is crystal clear: "(God) has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."

God keeps us in faith - as long as we continue to cooperate with Him.
If we don't - that's on us. We're not zombies or automatons who have no will.

Matt. 24:13 - And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved"

1 John 2:24 - See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. IF it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father.

Gal. 5:4 - “You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the Law; you have fallen away from grace.”

Okay, that's sort of a clumsy way to put it, but I'll agree, but say that our "cooperative response" is because of God's work in us, by His Spirit, by His giving us faith and by the Spirit's ongoing work in us, which, as you agreed before, is the process of sanctification, and He will not fail in that. Nor, of course, will He be unfaithful.

Okay, That's enough. Wow.

Grace and peace to you, BreadOfLife.

Jesus told the Jewish leaders:

Matt. 23:37
“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing..

God’s grace is a free gift that requires our cooperation.
We can choose to accept it – or we can choose to reject it.

Luke 10:16
Whoever LISTENS to you listens to me. Whoever REJECTS you rejects me. And whoever REJECTS me rejects the one who sent me."

God wants EVERYBODY to be saved and to come to a knowledge (Epignosis) of the truth (1 Tim. 2:3-4). This shows that EVERYBODY has been given sufficient grace to believe – yet some have rejected it . . .

 

[PinSeeker]

No – it’s simply a false doctrine that is not supported by the very Scriptures it purports to represent.

So you think; fair enough. Sola Scriptura (Scripture Alone) is the biblical truth that the Word of God is the only source ~ source, a very important distinction ~ of authority for Christian faith and practice. There are earthly authorities, for sure, but viewing any of these ~ including the Roman Catholic Church ~ as one's ultimate authority... or even co-authoritative with God ~ is a definite no-no. To this end, I will point out what Jesus, in speaking of earthly authority/authorities, says to Pontius Pilate just before His crucifixion, that he "would have no authority over (Him) at all unless it had been given (him) from above" (John 19:11). And Paul says, "there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God" (Romans 13:1). So again, the ultimate authority is God's and only God's, and God's Word is the only source of authority for Christian faith and practice, and earthly authority can be exercised... poorly. <smile>

WRONG.

I love that GIF... <smile>

Aa I indicated before – the use of the word “Epignosis” here indicates a person who has a full, experiential and relational knowledge of Christ. The normal Greek words for knowledge are oida or gnosis. Epignosis is the kind of knowledge that married person has of their spouse.

... IF we remain faithful and in His kindness (Rom. 11:22).

Ah, so God's knowing us is conditional on our being faithful...

...and He will only keep His promises to us if we are good enough...

How is the fact that, as sinners who may not endure in faith, we can endanger our secure position, as Scripture warns (2 Pet. 3:17)?

Now, are you talking about the same Peter who just said, "(God) has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time" (1 Peter 1:3-5)? That Peter? <chuckles> So both are true, and neither truth can be denied, so there must be some resolution between the two, right. It's not hard...

God keeps us in faith - as long as we continue to cooperate with Him.

God gives us a spirit of "cooperation," and then by His Spirit's ongoing work in us who are in Christ to "cooperate" with Him.

Continued below:

 

[PinSeeker]

If we don't - that's on us. We're not zombies or automatons who have no will.

Ahhhh, it always, without fail, comes back to free will with folks who see these things as you do... <chuckles> But we are either slaves to unrighteousness or slaves to righteousness, as Paul says in Romans 6. And we always present ourselves as obedient slaves one way or the other, depending on our spiritual condition. There is no in-between. <chuckles> But thanks be to God, we who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart and, having been set free from sin, we have become slaves of righteousness.

Well, I could say a lot of things in response, but I'll just point out what Paul says to the Philippian Christians (and by extension to us) in Philippians 2:13, where he exhorts us to work out (our) own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in (us), both to will and to work for His good pleasure. No one ~ not Paul here, nor any Calvinist, nor anyone who holds to the Reformed faith ~ "denies free will" in any shape, form, or fashion. But we Christians obviously will and work for God's good pleasure because God, by His Spirit, is at work in us... because God has given us a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within us; He has removed the heart of stone from our flesh and given us a heart of flesh, put His Spirit within you, and caused us to walk in His statutes and be careful to obey His rules (Ezekiel 11:19-20; 36:26-28). If you think it depends on us to keep that spirit ~ Spirit ~ that God has given us... Well, it absolutely, unequivocally does not. We are children of the promise and therefore counted as Abraham's offspring (Romans 9:8). If you think it depends on us for God to keep His promises to us... Well, again, it absolutely, unequivocally does not.

Matt. 24:13 - And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved"

"...let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the Founder and Perfecter of our faith, Who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God" (Hebrews 12:2)

Matt. 24:13 - And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved

1 John 2:24 - See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. IF it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father.

"Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also. Let what you heard from the beginning abide in you. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, then you too will abide in the Son and in the Father. And this is the promise that he made to us—eternal life." (1 John 2:23-25).

Gal. 5:4 - “You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the Law; you have fallen away from grace.”

Similar to what I said about Hebrews 10 in my previous post, BOL, Paul here is speaking of those who "submit to a yoke of slavery," which God has freed Christians from, indicating clearly the folks who do that ~ submit to a yoke of slavery ~ were never and are not really Christians given the Spirit of God. This is the natural condition of man, but for those who have been born again of the Spirit and thus, as Paul says in verse 24 of that same chapter in Galatians, "belong to Christ Jesus," they "have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires." Goodness gracious.

Jesus told the Jewish leaders:

Matt. 23:37
“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing..

God’s grace is a free gift that requires our cooperation.

Right, agreed (as I said before), but does not depend on it, else it would not be grace, which is unmerited favor. As Paul says in Romans 11:5-6 and Ephesians 2:8-10 (respectively):

• "So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace. But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace,"

...and:

• "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."

We can choose to accept it – or we can choose to reject it.

Sure we can. And unless and until one is born again of the Spirit and thus not of God but of the devil, they will not fail to reject it. But if one is born again of the Spirit, then he or she be compelled then, even in and of himself or herself, to, and will not fail to, choose it, and freely so.

God wants EVERYBODY to be saved and to come to a knowledge (Epignosis) of the truth (1 Tim. 2:3-4).

Sure, this is His desire. But BOL, this cannot be read as suggesting that everyone will be saved (universalism) because the rest of the letter makes it clear that some will not be saved (4:1; 5:24; 6:10). Does that then mean that God desires something ~ that all people be saved ~ but He is unable to fulfill this desire? Certainly not; God's purposes cannot be thwarted (Job 42:2), God's Word never returns to Him empty/void; it accomplishes that which He purposes and succeeds in the thing for which He sends it (Isaiah 55:11), and all God's promises have their 'yes' and 'amen' in Christ Jesus (2 Corinthians 1:20).

This shows that EVERYBODY has been given sufficient grace to believe...

No, only that God's grace is itself sufficient ~ along with Christ's atonement ~ for everyone to be saved. God gives a great measure of grace to all, and in that sense it is a common grace. but only God's elect are given His salvific ~ saving ~ grace, and it does not fail. You don't mean to, I know, but what you are essentially advocating ~ along with Pelagius and Arminius long before you ~ is, at least to some extent a self-salvation. We do not save ourselves by even the smallest measure.

– yet some have rejected it . . .

They have, yes... actually continued to reject it, as that is the natural inclination of all mankind from birth, "by nature children of wrath" and "dead in their trespasses/sin," as Paul says in Ephesians 2:1-3. But for those who have received God's mercy and compassion ~ which He gives to some but not to others; “'I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion'... So then He has mercy on whomever He wills, and He hardens whomever He wills," as God says through both Moses in Exodus 33:19 and Paul in Romans 9:15-18 ~ these are the ones who upon being born again of the Spirit cease to reject it, and never reject it again.

Grace and peace to you, BOL.

 

[Ritajanice]

Ahhhh, it always, without fail, comes back to free will with folks who see these things as you do... <chuckles> But we are either slaves to unrighteousness or slaves to righteousness, as Paul says in Romans 6. And we always present ourselves as obedient slaves one way or the other, depending on our spiritual condition. There is no in-between. <chuckles> But thanks be to God, we who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart and, having been set free from sin, we have become slaves of righteousness

 

[KUWN]

I know you arguments very well on these texts and do not agree.

I have yet to see a solid argument against any of the points of TULIP.

Alright I will give it a go.
1 Jn 2.2 and 2 Pet 2.1 both do away with limited atonement. In 2 Pet the false teaches are said to be redeemed/bought. That is, Christ bought them and they are unbelievers. There is no statement that Christ potentially bought them but they have to become believers first. Simply put, the unbelievers' sins have been paid for. Not contingent on where or not they get saved.

False Teachers and Their Destruction​

1 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.

1 John 2.2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.