The Doctrines of Grace

[Verily]

Not sure what your point is.

The tax collector understood he was a sinner.

I do not understand your point, very confusing.

But ok.

What you posted was

JESUS ON TOTAL DEPRAVITY

"Jesus commends the tax collector’s realistic view of himself as “a sinner."

When Jesus is actually responding to the work of godly repentance in Zaachaeus

Luke 19:8 And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.

Luke 19:9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is "salvation" come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.

The picture agrees with this here

2 Cr 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to "salvation" not to be repented of

In contrast to the rich young ruler concerning the commandments Jesus named who said, "all these I have kept" from his youth up.

One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me. Mark 10:21

Mark 10:22 And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.

Which can be contrasted against the other half of 2 Cr 7:10

2 Cr 7:10 but of the sorrow of the world worketh death,

It just shows the outworking of a godly sorrow which is not to be repented of (in Zacchaeus) but the sorrow of the world working death (in the rich young ruler) which is to be repented of.

Since godly sorrow (as shown us in Zaachaeus) worketh repentance to salvation

The same is demonstrated in Jesus own words to Zaachaeus

Luke 19:9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.

Its a picture of godly repentance, and doing works meet for the same /or John the baptist's teaching in him

John said, he that hath "two coats" impart to him that hath not = "Half" my goods I give to the poor"
Who said, " neither accuse any falsely" = "and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold"

Luke 19:8 And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.

Restoring another fourfold is similarly shown here

Exod 22:1 If a man shall steal an ox, or a sheep, and kill it, or sell it; he shall restore five oxen for an ox, and four sheep for a sheep. (Restoring a lamb fourfold for ones own wrong is also shown in David in 2 Sam 12:6)

 

[FearTheLord]

Since you are sinless, you cannot make any mistakes in interpretinmg the word is that correct?

We still have the ability to sin, but we also have the ability to completely stop sinning by the power of the Holy Spirit. Jesus' commandments are not burdensome (1John 5:3), so it shouldn't be too difficult.

Jesus' commandments amount to faith in Christ and love for one another, but they must be kept with a pure heart, a good conscience, and a sincere faith. This doesn't mean I'm incapable of misinterpreting something, or that I would necessarily be sinning in doing so. If I'm confronted with correction, then I must humble myself and accept it, otherwise I'm no longer obeying with a pure heart, good conscience, or sincere faith. This is true for any believer.

[1Jo 3:23 NASB95] 23 This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

[1Ti 1:5 NASB95] 5 But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.​

If I, or any other believer were to continue in the same error after correction, we would be making the same error as the Pharisees.

[Jhn 9:41 NASB95] 41 Jesus said to them, "If you were blind, you would have no sin; but since you say, 'We see,' your sin remains.​

It is easy to sit on the internet and play that you are sinless like Jesus.

I will do as I have done in other forums with people who believe they are sinless, I just ignore them. It is a shame that you believe that.

I could quote verse that say that you are not sinless, but I have been down this path before.

I just do not take people like you seriously and credible.

Grace and peace to you.

This isn't helping your case.
I've already shown you plenty of evidence that TULIP is a heresy, and that we absolutely can cease from sin by the power of the Spirit.

By the way Jesus taught TULIP.....

JESUS ON TOTAL DEPRAVITY
Mark 7:15-23
Mark 10:18
Luke 18:9–14, Jesus commends the tax collector’s realistic view of himself as “a sinner.
John 8:34
John 3:19-21
John 8:44
Matthew 7:18

JESUS ON UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION
John 13:18
John 6:37-40
John 17:6-9
John 10:29
Matthew 11:25-30
Matthew 22:14

JESUS ON LIMITED ATONEMENT
John 10:11
John 10:15
Matthew 26:28
Luke 19:10
John 6:35-40

JESUS ON IRRESISTABLE GRACE
John 1:12-13
John 6:63-65
John 17:2
John 6:44
John 6:37
John 11:43

JESUS ON PERSEVERANCE OF THE SAINTS
John6:39-40
John 10:27-30
John 5:24
John 6:47
John 17:2
John 3:16

Gish galloping and proof texting doesn't help you either. The scriptures cannot be broken. I've already shown that TULIP breaks the scriptures. You're just ignoring the evidence at this point. Willful ignorance is not sincere faith.

 

[Verily]

Gish galloping and proof texting doesn't help you either.

Me and you are the only ones that have used that phrase on this board, I didnt think anyone even knew what that meant.

Sorry, I just got a chuckle out of that.

Good posts FearTheLord

 

[FearTheLord]

Me and you are the only ones that have used that phrase on this board, I didnt think anyone even knew what that meant.

Sorry, I just got a chuckle out of that.

Good posts FearTheLord

Lol. That is pretty funny. I didn't expect it to go over well, anyways.

 

[ElectedbyHim]

What you posted was

JESUS ON TOTAL DEPRAVITY

"Jesus commends the tax collector’s realistic view of himself as “a sinner."

When Jesus is actually responding to the work of godly repentance in Zaachaeus

Luke 19:8 And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.

Luke 19:9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is "salvation" come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.

The picture agrees with this here

2 Cr 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to "salvation" not to be repented of

In contrast to the rich young ruler concerning the commandments Jesus named who said, "all these I have kept" from his youth up.

One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me. Mark 10:21

Mark 10:22 And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.

Which can be contrasted against the other half of 2 Cr 7:10

2 Cr 7:10 but of the sorrow of the world worketh death,

It just shows the outworking of a godly sorrow which is not to be repented of (in Zacchaeus) but the sorrow of the world working death (in the rich young ruler) which is to be repented of.

Since godly sorrow (as shown us in Zaachaeus) worketh repentance to salvation

The same is demonstrated in Jesus own words to Zaachaeus

Luke 19:9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.

Its a picture of godly repentance, and doing works meet for the same /or John the baptist's teaching in him

John said, he that hath "two coats" impart to him that hath not = "Half" my goods I give to the poor"
Who said, " neither accuse any falsely" = "and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold"

Luke 19:8 And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.

Restoring another fourfold is similarly shown here

Exod 22:1 If a man shall steal an ox, or a sheep, and kill it, or sell it; he shall restore five oxen for an ox, and four sheep for a sheep. (Restoring a lamb fourfold for ones own wrong is also shown in David in 2 Sam 12:6)

mmmm, your looking at the wrong Scripture.

Try Luke 18:13

 

[Verily]

mmmm, your looking at the wrong Scripture.

Try Luke 18:13

You are correct ElectedByHim, I myself stand corrected on the verses I used for reference. And I do not disagree on the point that we are all sinners and have all sinned. I would have only disagreed with that point as far as what the other verses I was using were showing. My appologies for misreading (and misapplying) my argument to the wrong verses.

 

[ElectedbyHim]

You are correct ElectedByHim, I myself stand corrected on the verses I used for reference. And I do not disagree on the point that we are all sinners and have all sinned. I would have only disagreed with that point as far as what the other verses I was using were showing. My appologies for misreading (and misapplying) my argument to the wrong verses.

No worries.

We all make mistakes.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

JESUS ON TOTAL DEPRAVITY
Mark 7:15-23
Mark 10:18
Luke 18:9–14, Jesus commends the tax collector’s realistic view of himself as “a sinner.
John 8:34
John 3:19-21
John 8:44
Matthew 7:18

These are all before Pentecost and the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Do you believe Christians are totally depraved?

 

[ElectedbyHim]

These are all before Pentecost and the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Do you believe Christians are totally depraved?

Christ taught the Doctrines, as did Paul and the apostles.

Define "Totally Depraved"?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Christ taught the Doctrines, as did Paul and the apostles.

Define "Totally Depraved"?

It's the "T" in Tulip. If you are Calvinist then maybe you remember what they define total depravity and for whom, those inside or outside the faith or both.

 

[ElectedbyHim]

It's the "T" in Tulip. If you are Calvinist then maybe you remember what they define total depravity and for whom, those inside or outside the faith or both.

I want your definition of total depravity.

I dont consider myself a Calvinist, but many call me that because I believe in the doctrines of Grace.

Those who oppose Calvinism are Arminians.

 

[Verily]

I want your definition of total depravity.

I dont consider myself a Calvinist, but many call me that because I believe in the doctrines of Grace.

Those who oppose Calvinism are Arminians.

I don't even know who this Calvin or this Armin fellow is but you somehow become an Armin follower for opposing a Calvin follower? And even though you might not consider yourself a follower of Calvin, you can be mistaken for one because of Grace?

Gees, I never heard of such craziness, the grace of God comes by Jesus Christ, I thought those who oppose him are just plain anti christ, what makes someone think you could be a follower of Calvin because of grace? That makes no sense to me not knowing who these other guys are. What am I missing?

 

[ElectedbyHim]

I don't even know who this Calvin or this Armin fellow is but you somehow become an Armin follower for opposing a Calvin follower? And even though you might not consider yourself a follower of Calvin, you can be mistaken for one because of Grace?

Gees, I never heard of such craziness, the grace of God comes by Jesus Christ, I thought those who oppose him are just plain anti christ, what makes someone think you could be a follower of Calvin because of grace? That makes no sense to me not knowing who these other guys are. What am I missing?

In the theological world, one is either a calvinist or an arminian dependeing on certain doctriens pertaining to their belief system on Theology Proper, Soteriology, Anthropology and Hamartiology.

TULIP, is also know as the Doctrines of Grace.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Verily]

In the theological world, one is either a calvinist or an arminian dependeing on certain doctriens pertaining to their belief system on Theology Proper, Soteriology, Anthropology and Hamartiology.

TULIP, is also know as the Doctrines of Grace.

Grace and peace to you.

Thanks Electedby Him, to you as well. Its just weird, that Jesus Christ is just cut out of it altogether and that these other two get to split the camp and have their names above it all.

 

[FearTheLord]

In the theological world, one is either a calvinist or an arminian dependeing on certain doctriens pertaining to their belief system on Theology Proper, Soteriology, Anthropology and Hamartiology.

TULIP, is also know as the Doctrines of Grace.

Grace and peace to you.

Do you hold to the Westminster Confession of Faith?

At least in colloquial terms, that would make you a Calvinist. I think that was probably a long the lines of what @Verily was asking. (I encourage Verily to correct me if I'm wrong.)

If you don't wish to be called a Calvinist, but prefer different nomenclature, then that's a different matter altogether.

 

[Verily]

Do you hold to the Westminster Confession of Faith?

At least in colloquial terms, that would make you a Calvinist. I think that was probably a long the lines of what @Verily was asking. (I encourage Verily to correct me if I'm wrong.)

If you don't wish to be called a Calvinist, but prefer different nomenclature, then that's a different matter altogether.

I think I am just in the wrong discussion FearTheLord, because I have never even heard of a Westminster faith confession

But then again, I have never heard of the words "colloquial" or "nomenclature" either so it might be best to step out of this thread fast before anymore my stupidity in these things shows LOL!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I want your definition of total depravity.

I dont consider myself a Calvinist, but many call me that because I believe in the doctrines of Grace.

Those who oppose Calvinism are Arminians.

I'm neither Calvinist nor Arminian, so how would I have a definition of total depravity when it doesn't exist, except in Satan and his demons. The Father has given all humans a measure of faith.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

We still have the ability to sin, but we also have the ability to completely stop sinning by the power of the Holy Spirit. Jesus' commandments are not burdensome (1John 5:3), so it shouldn't be too difficult.

Sadly, the false preachers / false churches work hard to convince everyone that they are still sinners after getting born again and they can never stop sinning and those who stop sinning are trying to "earn" their salvation

They teach these things because they have been tricked b y the devil in to NOT accepting the whole counsel of God as they are cherry pickers who only believe a handful of happy verses while they throw the rest of the Word of God in the trash

 

[FearTheLord]

Sadly, the false preachers / false churches work hard to convince everyone that they are still sinners after getting born again and they can never stop sinning and those who stop sinning are trying to "earn" their salvation

They teach these things because they have been tricked b y the devil in to NOT accepting the whole counsel of God as they are cherry pickers who only believe a handful of happy verses while they throw the rest of the Word of God in the trash

I did the same for about 20 years. I tried to serve God through false doctrine, and God made it clear that I had to make a choice to either wake up or remain in deception.

 

[Behold]

I have yet to se a solid argument against any of the points of TULIP.

The 5 points of Calvinism, declare that this verse isn't true.

"Jesus came into the world to Save Sinners"'.

The 5 Points of Calvinism deny this verse.

"ALL who call on the name of Jesus, shall be saved"..

So, the demonic "5-Points"... reject The Cross as God has offered it to "THE WORLD", in John 3:16.

Demonic "5 points" TULIP (Calvinism) denies that Jesus is telling the truth when Jesus said..

"""""""""""If i be lifted up (On The Cross) I will Draw ALL people to myself".""""""""""""""""

So, what we have with TULIP, "the 5 pts of Calvinism" and this is Hyper-Calvinism, is a Cross Denying Lie that rejects Jesus's Sacrifice on The CROSS... as God has authored it.

Just remember.

God Hates Cross rejecting "TULIP" or "the 5 pts of Calvinism
God is not a Calvinist.
Jesus is not a Calvinist

God creates : CHRISTians.

John Calvin creates : Calvinists

Calvinism as "The 5 pts of Calvinism" .. is a "Doctrine of Devils"... .. Hebrews 13:9 (KJV)

Avoid it or it will ruin your faith for life.
Calvinism, this Theological Doctrine = should NEVER be allowed on a "christian forum" because its a Cross Rejecting Lie that will ruin a Christians faith, for LIFE.
That's it purpose.
That's why Satan created it, using John Calvin and others who subsequently evolved a hyper false, demonic, Theology.