The difference between The Resurrection and the first resurrection.

[Timtofly]

Therefore, when we read that Christ was the firstborn from the dead that in all things he might have "preeminence," this is the death and preeminence that is in view! The "First Resurrection" wherein all (including Lazarus) who will become saved, must have part in "His" First Resurrection. Because without that First Resurrection, we will instead have part in the second death because of sin.

And Revelation 20:4-6 is not talking about the resurrection of Jesus Christ, so the first resurrection is physical, not this doctrine of man you are declaring as being preeminent.

Lazarus did experience the first resurrection as he had a new permanent incorruptible physical body, and was not preeminent like Jesus. Jesus was made sin, but only Adam's dead corruptible flesh can be made alive out of death, both physically and spiritually.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Not so!

Yes so, because you believe Rev. 20:1-6 is past and the thousand years began 2,000 years ago. Lol

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

There is NO mention of a "second resurrection" found anywhere in Scripture.

Revelation 20:5
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.

 

[rwb]

Yes so, because you believe Rev. 20:1-6 is past and the thousand years began 2,000 years ago. Lol

Oh you mean I believe that which is proven through the abundance of Scripture, unlike your doctrine which is apparently what you have been taught, i.e. doctrines of man! You mock truth while your doctrines force contradiction and confusion into the Word of God! If it weren't so sad I would LOL at your doctrines of deception!

 

[rwb]

Revelation 20:5
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.

You prove my point! Not one word about a second resurrection for the rest of the dead or anyone else!

 

[tailgator]

Oh you mean I believe that which is proven through the abundance of Scripture, unlike your doctrine which is apparently what you have been taught, i.e. doctrines of man! You mock truth while your doctrines force contradiction and confusion into the Word of God! If it weren't so sad I would LOL at your doctrines of deception!

I seem to be the one agreeing with what is written about these resurected saints.I call this the word of God .You call revelation 20:4-9 the doctrine of man.

Revelation 20

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

[tailgator]

Oh you mean I believe that which is proven through the abundance of Scripture, unlike your doctrine which is apparently what you have been taught, i.e. doctrines of man! You mock truth while your doctrines force contradiction and confusion into the Word of God! If it weren't so sad I would LOL at your doctrines of deception!

PS
I'm not the one saying the resurection is past.
You are.

2 Timothy 2
17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

 

[rwb]

I seem to be the one agreeing with what is written about these resurected saints.I call this the word of God .You call revelation 20:4-9 the doctrine of man.

Premillennialism IS doctrine from the minds of man! This doctrine has been shown to contradict, and cause confusion, and has been Biblically refuted time and again! Like I have often said, there is no man so blind as those who REFUSE to see! Doctrine that causes the Bible to be contradictive and confusing cannot be truth, yet you cling to it in ignorance, too prideful to accept truth shown you time and again!

 

[tailgator]

Premillennialism IS doctrine from the minds of man! This doctrine has been shown to contradict, and cause confusion, and has been Biblically refuted time and again! Like I have often said, there is no man so blind as those who REFUSE to see! Doctrine that causes the Bible to be contradictive and confusing cannot be truth, yet you cling to it in ignorance, too prideful to accept truth shown you time and again!

If that's what you call.this.
I call this the word of God.

Revelation 20

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

[rwb]

PS
I'm not the one saying the resurection is past.
You are.

2 Timothy 2
17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

This is a ploy often used by Premillennialists! Ignore what has actually been said, and pretend you are being honest! You haven't even erred from the truth, as far as I can tell you've never shown any evidence that you've ever had Biblical truth.

 

[tailgator]

This is a ploy often used by Premillennialists! Ignore what has actually been said, and pretend you are being honest! You haven't even erred from the truth, as far as I can tell you've never shown any evidence that you've ever had Biblical truth.

You said the resurection is past already.

2 Timothy 2
17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some

 

[rwb]

You said the resurection is past already.

2 Timothy 2
17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some

Was or was not Christ physically resurrected? If you have enough understanding of Scripture to KNOW He was, then you too would understand how the "first resurrection " is indeed PAST already!

 

[tailgator]

Was or was not Christ physically resurrected? If you have enough understanding of Scripture to KNOW He was, then you too would understand how the "first resurrection " is indeed PAST already!

Is that why you, Hymenaeus and Philetus have erred from.the truth?

2 Timothy 2
17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some

 

[Timtofly]

Since your mind (all millennialists) is always fixed on that which is physical, you seem not to be able to understand that the only way mankind shall also be bodily resurrected from the grave immortal & incorruptible like Christ, is that we must partake of His resurrection life before we die. That means we MUST be born again before we can know or enter into the Kingdom of God that came with Christ when He walked this earth a mortal man.

How did that work out for all those in the OT prior to the Cross, including Lazarus, who had not received the second birth? They had to wait for a physical resurrection, remaining as a soul, in Abraham's bosom. They were not resurrected to obtain the second birth. They were physically raised already having the second birth, at that moment. Not prior to their physical death, and they would never die again physically nor spiritually, once made alive. Why is that hard for you amil to understand?

There is no mention of humans having an immortal body in Scripture. That is pagan propaganda claiming some humans are mortal and some are immortal. That is not Scripture at all. At least premillennialism uses Revelation 20 as a thousand years after the Second Coming, and not making up terms like "the immortal body". Jesus claimed He was the Resurrection and the Life, not the Resurrection and the Immortal. If one is made alive, they are changed or translated out of death into life, and that does not have to be a physical resurrection, or defined as using the term "resurrection".


If any human is given life or made alive that assumes a soul with a physical body.

 

[ewq1938]

Revelation 20:5
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.

If Amill was right, and context is continued in Rev 20, then this coming back to life for everyone else would be Universalism where all are saved and experience the "spiritual resurrection" those of verse 4 did. Amill isn't correct (on anything) because the two groups resurrecting in Rev 20 are experiencing a physical resurrection not being saved/being born again/a spiritual resurrection.

 

[Timtofly]

Didn't God often use His physical creation to represent deeper "spiritual" meaning, humm? For example, you insisted on physical sun, moon and stars, right? Okay, what did God say about these things in Revelation?

The sun, moon, and stars are not physical. They are God's heavenly host of angels.

If you all think they are physical things as science teaches, you are stuck on human deception, instead of God's Word.

What we see in the firmament are the heavenly host most would call that which is spiritual in high places. Not only do the stars provide light, but they wrestle against the spirits of darkness, under Satan's control.

Many here who claim to be spiritually minded or spiritually discerned have also got stuck in the physical mindset of human science. A deception that Satan fed to all the kingdoms represented by the 7 headed beast in Revelation 12, 13, and 17. Going all the way back to Babylon, Satan deceived humanity with his brand of science up to modern times, and the theory of evolution and science that is not even close to what Genesis states.

What John wrote symbolizes Israel. But those symbols are not physical, nor are there even physical objects in the firmament. Only angels, and John calls them stars. Now in modern times stars are no longer the terms defining angels. Science has attached human imagination to the term stars. A third of the stars created on the 4th day, rebelled at some point in time, and have been placed in chains of darkness in the pit. They were never sons of God, but mere lights in the firmament. They will not be released until the 5th Trumpet sounds, and they won't take the form of stars, not angels appearing as human messengers. They will have a "demonic appearance" as described by John.

I don’t think Amil should claim to be all about the spiritual instead of the physical, when they cannot even get what the stars in the firmament, including the sun and moon, actually are.

At the Second Coming all the stars are coming to earth, because they are not what science claims they are. That is when you all will have your spiritual blindness removed including your false time frames concerning the spiritual Day of the Lord, and the time of Jacob's trouble.

 

[rwb]

Is that why you, Hymenaeus and Philetus have erred from.the truth?

2 Timothy 2
17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some

How is faith believers possess overthrown by saying the resurrection of Christ is past? The error of these liars and deceivers was not that Christ was the first to be resurrected immortal from the grave, and that it is through new birth through His resurrected life that man of faith will be resurrected immortal just as Christ was. Nor were they saying that spiritual new birth, not physical mortal resurrection is how a man enters the Kingdom of God through faith.

2 Timothy 2:8-13 (KJV) Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel: Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound. Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

These liars and deceivers, like Premillennialists, were most likely pointing to physical resurrection, they apparently didn't even believe in as the means for mankind of faith to obtain everlasting life. Since they, and Premillennialists have no understanding of the spiritual Kingdom of God that Christ came to earth with, they focused on a mortal bodily resurrection after death, that would not make them immortal & incorruptible, but rather lead to a second death! Anyone being deceived by them or Premillennialism would indeed turn away from the truth to follow this pernicious error!

 

[rwb]

If Amill was right, and context is continued in Rev 20, then this coming back to life for everyone else would be Universalism where all are saved and experience the "spiritual resurrection" those of verse 4 did. Amill isn't correct (on anything) because the two groups resurrecting in Rev 20 are experiencing a physical resurrection not being saved/being born again/a spiritual resurrection.

You might see the resurrection of ALL who are in the graves as universal salvation, but being resurrected to life again to DIE the second time doesn't sound much like resurrection life to me! The DEAD NEVER have part in the first resurrection through Christ! Their (the DEAD) only resurrection shall be of their MORTAL body, which you Premillennialists say is how man obtains immortal life?

 

[tailgator]

How is faith believers possess overthrown by saying the resurrection of Christ is past? The error of these liars and deceivers was not that Christ was the first to be resurrected immortal from the grave, and that it is through new birth through His resurrected life that man of faith will be resurrected immortal just as Christ was. Nor were they saying that spiritual new birth, not physical mortal resurrection is how a man enters the Kingdom of God through faith.

2 Timothy 2:8-13 (KJV) Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel: Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound. Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

These liars and deceivers, like Premillennialists, were most likely pointing to physical resurrection, they apparently didn't even believe in as the means for mankind of faith to obtain everlasting life. Since they, and Premillennialists have no understanding of the spiritual Kingdom of God that Christ came to earth with, they focused on a mortal bodily resurrection after death, that would not make them immortal & incorruptible, but rather lead to a second death! Anyone being deceived by them or Premillennialism would indeed turn away from the truth to follow this pernicious error!

Liars and deceivers who say the resurection has already taken place err from the truth that says them who were beheaded for their witness of Jesus are the first to be resurected after the beast who killed them is destroyed.Also them of the first resurection lives upon earth when Gog comes and surrounds them.They lie and decieve people saying this first resurection of the martyrs of Christ who have not died yet have already been resurected before they are beheaded by the beast.


Liars and deceivers say the resurection is past already .

2 Timothy 2
17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some



The martyrs of Jesus such as Stephen are killed before they are raised from the dead at the resurection .Not the other way around.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

You mock truth while your doctrines force contradiction and confusion into the Word of God!

You Amils have been taught by men (not by Christ) that being born again of the Holy Spirit IS the first bodily resurrection of the dead in Christ as is shown and clearly defined in Rev. 20:4-6.

If you were Truly born again of the Holy Spirit and taught by Christ then you would not be getting led astray by the false doctrines of men.

The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth, it is not the false prophet spirit. You are of the tail, I am of the Head.