The deconstructing of the law in the New Testament

[St. SteVen]

"For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." - John 1:17 NIV

I see many examples of the deconstruction of the law in the New Testament. It began in the Gospel accounts and continued into the writing of the Apostle Paul.

It began with the forerunner, John the Baptizer, leading the way. "For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John." - Matthew 11:13 NIV
Until John? Then what?

In Matthew chapter five, Jesus refers to the law as hearsay and challenges it. There are five "You have heard that it was said... but I tell you..." statements.

The most obvious examples are Jesus violating the Sabbath law. (I'll probably get lots of push-back on that) I'm not claiming that Jesus sinned.

Does anyone else see the signs I am seeing here? Let's discuss.

John 9:16 NIV
Some of the Pharisees said, “This man is not from God, for he does not keep the Sabbath.”
But others asked, “How can a sinner perform such signs?” So they were divided.

John 5:18 NIV
For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath,
but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

Observations about the law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law - four different things

- What's the difference between the law and the Law? (capital L) - What's the difference between the law and God's law? - What's the difference between the law, God's law, and Christ's law? The law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law; four different things. Agree, or disagree? Points...

www.christianityboard.com

Galatians 3:23-25 NIV
Before the coming of this faith,[a] we were held in custody under the law,
locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed.
24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.
25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

]

 

[Brakelite]

"For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." - John 1:17 NIV

Doesn't make those things mutually exclusive. And remember, the laws pertaining to the sanctuary services, known as the law of Moses as opposed to the laws of God, was the expression of grace to Israel. Remember also why the law of Moses was given. Why the sanctuary services were instituted. Because of transgression. Transgression against what? The laws of God... Specifically the Ten Commandments.

It began with the forerunner, John the Baptizer, leading the way. "For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John." - Matthew 11:13 NIV
Until John? Then what?

A better covenant...a covenant that could be accepted by faith, a promise of God doing the work of righteousness inside the person through Jesus the High Priest, rather than the person struggling in his own strength and in response to his own promise. (Exodus 19:8)

The most obvious examples are Jesus violating the Sabbath law. (I'll probably get lots of push-back on that) I'm not claiming that Jesus sinned.

Yet that's the only conclusion one can come to in response to your statement that Jesus violated the law.

Before the coming of this faith,[a] we were held in custody under the law,
locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed.
24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.
25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

I hope you aren't suggesting that Israel were justified by law and not faith.

 

[St. SteVen]

Doesn't make those things mutually exclusive. And remember, the laws pertaining to the sanctuary services, known as the law of Moses as opposed to the laws of God, was the expression of grace to Israel. Remember also why the law of Moses was given. Why the sanctuary services were instituted. Because of transgression. Transgression against what? The laws of God... Specifically the Ten Commandments.

I think it helps to distinguish between the various "laws" in the Bible. I addressed that in this topic.

Observations about the law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law - four different things

- What's the difference between the law and the Law? (capital L) - What's the difference between the law and God's law? - What's the difference between the law, God's law, and Christ's law? The law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law; four different things. Agree, or disagree? Points...

www.christianityboard.com

]

 

[Behold]

The most obvious examples are Jesus violating the Sabbath law.

Jesus is the "Lord of the Sabbath".. so, He's not violating it.

Also, the common misunderstanding of "Shabbat" is.... "we must keep it".

However the correct understanding is... Shabbat is made for us........we are not made for it.

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
The most obvious examples are Jesus violating the Sabbath law. (I'll probably get lots of push-back on that) I'm not claiming that Jesus sinned.

Yet that's the only conclusion one can come to in response to your statement that Jesus violated the law.

That's the knee-jerk reaction. I came to a different conclusion.

Question: Did Jesus in fact violate God-given Sabbath law?

- Was it against God-given Sabbath law to work on the Sabbath? (yes) See Exodus 20:8-11 and Deuteronomy 5:12-15
- Was it against God-given Sabbath law to to collect food on the Sabbath? (yes) See Exodus 16:26-30

Shabbat with Food: From Biblical Prohibitions to Rabbinic Feasts - TheTorah.com

Biblical prohibitions against preparing food on Shabbat are further developed in the Second Temple and rabbinic periods. At the same time, a new emphasis emerges: celebrating Shabbat with festive meals. | Dr. Sarit Kattan Gribetz

www.thetorah.com

The religious leaders accused Jesus of working on the Sabbath. How did he respond?

John 5:17 NIV
In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.”

]

 

[Brakelite]

So. The law being deconstructed is the Mishnah? Rabbinical traditions and oral law? I can run with that, and I get it.
When I see Sabbath law, I immediately think of the 4th Commandment. The Pharisaical accoutrements that they added to the Sabbath law at the return from Babylon, yes, Jesus broke those...free from God's law.

 

[Behold]

St. SteVen said:
The most obvious examples are Jesus violating the Sabbath law.

]

Jesus is the "Lord of the Sabbath".. so, He's not violating it.

Also, the common misunderstanding of "Shabbat" is.... "we must keep it".

However the correct understanding is... Shabbat is made for us........we are not made for it.

 

[Davy]

"For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." - John 1:17 NIV

I see many examples of the deconstruction of the law in the New Testament. It began in the Gospel accounts and continued into the writing of the Apostle Paul.

It began with the forerunner, John the Baptizer, leading the way. "For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John." - Matthew 11:13 NIV
Until John? Then what?
....

Above is a totally wrong approach, because Paul taught the following...

1 Tim 1:8-11
8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
KJV


1 Cor 6:9-10
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
KJV

If that ain't about Apostle Paul teaching God's laws then I'll eat my hat.

 

[St. SteVen]

So. The law being deconstructed is the Mishnah? Rabbinical traditions and oral law? I can run with that, and I get it.
When I see Sabbath law, I immediately think of the 4th Commandment. The Pharisaical accoutrements that they added to the Sabbath law at the return from Babylon, yes, Jesus broke those...free from God's law.

No, I'm referring to the TCs.
The most basic violations of Sabbath law were work and food gathering, Jesus plead guilty to both charges.
And since Jesus was sinless, he didn't sin. He was Lord of the Sabbath, it was his call. He was deconstructing the law.

]

 

[Brakelite]

No, I'm referring to the TCs.
The most basic violations of Sabbath law were work and food gathering, Jesus plead guilty to both charges.
And since Jesus was sinless, he didn't sin. He was Lord of the Sabbath, it was his call. He was deconstructing the law.

]

I disagree. He wasn't deconstructing the law. He was demonstrating the true scope and meaning that was innate to the law all along. He was demonstrating that love, and mercy, were still law, but "weightier" than the strict legalistic interpretations placed on the law by the Pharisees. Do you remember the Sabbath to keep it holy? Because works of mercy, as Jesus said that He and the Father were doing, is their work, Sabbath or not. So the work the commandment is talking about is secular money making work for the purposes of maintaining self preservation. Works that preserve the lives of others, such as what Jesus did, was perfectly lawful. And always were.

 

[St. SteVen]

I disagree. He wasn't deconstructing the law. He was demonstrating the true scope and meaning that was innate to the law all along.

What do you make of the five "You have heard that it was said... but I tell you..." statements in Matthew chapter five? Jesus was treating the law like hearsay. Deconstructing.

He was demonstrating that love, and mercy, were still law, but "weightier" than the strict legalistic interpretations placed on the law by the Pharisees.

That was the appropriate message to the Pharisees, I agree.

Do you remember the Sabbath to keep it holy?

Remember?
That sounds like SDA apologetics. I'm fine with that. One of my BEST Christian friends is SDA.
But we differ vastly on the doctrine of law. I would ask that before we continue that you would decide which is more important to you,
our relationship, or your doctrine. I hope you will choose the former, but I leave it up to you. Thanks.

Because works of mercy, as Jesus said that He and the Father were doing, is their work, Sabbath or not. So the work the commandment is talking about is secular money making work for the purposes of maintaining self preservation.

I agree somewhat.

Works that preserve the lives of others, such as what Jesus did, was perfectly lawful. And always were.

To qualify that you will need to show me where the law excuses work on the Sabbath and food gathering on the Sabbath.
In the OT a man was stoned to death by the whole congregation for collecting fire wood on the Sabbath.
Is that where you are going with this?

]

 

[Brakelite]

To qualify that you will need to show me where the law excuses work on the Sabbath and food gathering on the Sabbath.
In the OT a man was stoned to death by the whole congregation for collecting fire wood on the Sabbath.
Is that where you are going with this?

It wasn't where I was going, but the congregation would have learned very quickly to gather firewood on Friday...the day of preparation...so named for a reason yes?
However, on the other hand, it would have been somewhat difficult to pull your neighbours sheep, or your own, out of a ditch on preparation day if you didn't hear it desperately bleating until the Sabbath morning.
Now if you don't think such a scenario was allowed for in the OT, then you are forgetting some very important, even vital, truths about Jesus.
First, it was Jesus Who gave the law to Moses. He wasn't changing His mind about the law at any time in when He came in the flesh. He wasn't deconstructing or offering an easier law to follow in the NT. Remember, it was the Spirit of Christ Who inspired the prophets to say things like, "I will have mercy and not sacrifice"...
KJV Micah 6:8
8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?
And in speaking prophetically concerning Himself...
KJV Isaiah 42:21
21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

Have a read of Isaiah 58. That is the Christian walk. That picture is of God's people immediately prior to the second coming...perfectly sanctified and walking in Christ's righteousness and holiness, reflecting His character. Not me, but Christ formed within. Filled with the holy Spirit in the midst of the latter rain. That behaviour was never restricted to days other than the Sabbath. It's a lifestyle. While the Sabbath is remembered, and the presence of Christ in the Sabbath, and in us, making both us and the day holy.
And the second thing about Jesus vital to your understanding is that He was a perfect reflection of the Father's character.
KJV Exodus 34:6-7
6 And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,
7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

 

[Brakelite]

What do you make of the five "You have heard that it was said... but I tell you..."

KJV Matthew 5:21-22
21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.



KJV Matthew 5:27-28
27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.


KJV Matthew 5:31-37
31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.


33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:
34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.


KJV Matthew 5:38-39, 43-45
38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.



43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

In all the above examples I think Jesus was teaching that true obedience wasn't only outward and physical, but a mind and heart attitude which we know is only possible through Christ in us, the hope of glory.

 

[St. SteVen]

In all the above examples I think Jesus was teaching that true obedience wasn't only outward and physical, but a mind and heart attitude which we know is only possible through Christ in us, the hope of glory.

Agree.
Jesus used the word "But" instead of "And". Which indicates a change of direction.

You have heard that it was said... But I say to you...

Example: I took a left turn, but soon realized I should have turned right.

/

 

[Arthur81]

"For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." - John 1:17 NIV

I see many examples of the deconstruction of the law in the New Testament. It began in the Gospel accounts and continued into the writing of the Apostle Paul.

It began with the forerunner, John the Baptizer, leading the way. "For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John." - Matthew 11:13 NIV
Until John? Then what?

In Matthew chapter five, Jesus refers to the law as hearsay and challenges it. There are five "You have heard that it was said... but I tell you..." statements.

The most obvious examples are Jesus violating the Sabbath law. (I'll probably get lots of push-back on that) I'm not claiming that Jesus sinned.

Does anyone else see the signs I am seeing here? Let's discuss.

John 9:16 NIV
Some of the Pharisees said, “This man is not from God, for he does not keep the Sabbath.”
But others asked, “How can a sinner perform such signs?” So they were divided.

John 5:18 NIV
For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath,
but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

Observations about the law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law - four different things

- What's the difference between the law and the Law? (capital L) - What's the difference between the law and God's law? - What's the difference between the law, God's law, and Christ's law? The law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law; four different things. Agree, or disagree? Points...

www.christianityboard.com

Galatians 3:23-25 NIV
Before the coming of this faith,[a] we were held in custody under the law,
locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed.
24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.
25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

]

How do you understand the idea of deconstruction? How do you define that idea? Do you actually believe "Jesus refers to the law as hearsay"? Is that deconstructionism to you? I've noticed many write the words "deconstructionism" and "existentialism", and it sounds erudite, but do they even understand the words and the meaning?

 

[St. SteVen]

How do you understand the idea of deconstruction? How do you define that idea? Do you actually believe "Jesus refers to the law as hearsay"? Is that deconstructionism to you? I've noticed many write the words "deconstructionism" and "existentialism", and it sounds erudite, but do they even understand the words and the meaning?

Great questions, thanks.
Let's begin by defining what I mean by "the law" in this thread. I posted a link below for a topic that discusses four kinds of law in the Bible.
But for the purposes of this topic I am referring to the law that God gave to the Israelites alone through Moses.

In Matthew chapter five Jesus makes five "You have heard that it was said... But I tell you..." statements. (vs 21, 27, 33, 38, 43)
He didn't say, "You have read in the Law...", but he was quoting the Law. (books of the Law) The word "But" indicates a contrasting statement.
In my view, he is taking down the aforementioned tent. (tabernacle) And replacing it with a new order. See Hebrews 8:7 and Hebrews 8:13 below.

What I observe is the law being deconstructed in the gospels. In the same way one would take down a tent and remove it.
It doesn't happen at the snap of fingers, it's a process.

Galatians 3:23-25 NIV
Before the coming of this faith,[a] we were held in custody under the law,
locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed.
24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.
25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

Hebrews 8:7, 13
7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. ...
13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

Observations about the law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law - four different things

- What's the difference between the law and the Law? (capital L) - What's the difference between the law and God's law? - What's the difference between the law, God's law, and Christ's law? The law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law; four different things. Agree, or disagree? Points...

www.christianityboard.com

=

 

[Spyder]

Perhaps we should consider prophecy and how it happened?

The assumption is that Jesus was born under the law , but the prophets say that Jesus is the new covenant personified.

Is 42:5–8 Thus says Yahweh who created the heavens and stretched them out, who spread out the earth and what comes from it, who gives breath to the people on it and spirit to those who walk in it: “I am Yahweh; I have called you in righteousness; I will take you by the hand and keep you; I will give you as a covenant for the people, a light for the nations, to open the eyes that are blind, to bring out the prisoners from the dungeon, from the prison those who sit in darkness. I am Yahweh; that is my name; my glory I give to no other, nor my praise to carved idols.

Is 49:8 Thus says Yahweh “In a time of favor I have answered you; in a day of salvation I have helped you; I will keep you and give you as a covenant to the people, to establish the land, to apportion the desolate heritages,

It has long been assumed that Yeshua was born under the Law of Moses, but translators inserted punctuation (and changed "having been born" to simply "born" that was not in the original source document. Our bibles say:

Ga 4:4–5 But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons.

The inserted comma changes the passage which should read:

But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman having been born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons.

If one were to check the interlinear passage, it states that "having been born" is correct.

Jesus knew no sin - because He was not born under the Law. He was born as the New Covenant.

 

[St. SteVen]

Jesus knew no sin - because He was not born under the Law. He was born as the New Covenant.

Right. He was the Lord of the Sabbath, it was his call.

]

 

[St. SteVen]

Doesn't make those things mutually exclusive. And remember, the laws pertaining to the sanctuary services, known as the law of Moses as opposed to the laws of God, was the expression of grace to Israel. Remember also why the law of Moses was given. Why the sanctuary services were instituted. Because of transgression. Transgression against what? The laws of God... Specifically the Ten Commandments.

To whom were the TCs given?

Does the inclusion of the Sabbath prove that the Ten Commandments were for Israel alone?

- To whom were the Ten Commandments given? Deuteronomy 5:3-4 NIV It was not with our ancestors[a] that the Lord made this covenant, but with us, with all of us who are alive here today. 4 The Lord spoke to you face to face out of the fire on the mountain. - To whom was the Sabbath...

www.christianityboard.com

[

 

[Behold]

I see many examples of the deconstruction of the law in the New Testament.

]

The law is not "deconstructed".

Its still the same dominion, over a "Sinner".

That means that those who are not born again, are still under the Law, and the Law is still defining them as a SINNER.

Whereas, the born again, "are NOT under the LAW.... but Under GRACE"... and that is why God now only views the CHRISTian, as a "new Creation in Christ". "made righteous".. having become... "THE Righteousness of GOD.... = IN CHRIST".. = For Eternity.