The Crucified Flesh

[Johann]

"keep on willfully sinning...no more sacrifice for sins"

-i.e..-living in a state of never ending sinning

 

[Johann]

As Jesus said you will know them by their fruits, a good tree bears good fruit. And only a born again believer as He taught will bear much fruit and prove to be His disciples by denying self, taking us their cross daily and following Him.

The elect are those who have believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, received the gift of the Holy Spirit and been washed in the blood of the Lamb: Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. (1 Peter 1:2).

As we can see above the elect are also those who are obedient to God and Christ.

--and we can also see those--

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.


the earnest: Rom_8:15-17, Rom_8:23; 2Co_1:22, 2Co_5:5; Gal_4:6
the redemption: Eph_4:30; Lev_25:24-34; Psa_74:2, Psa_78:54; Jer_32:7-8; Luk_21:28; Act_20:28; Rom_8:23; 1Pe_2:9 *marg.
unto: Eph_1:6, Eph_1:12

 

[marks]

Rev 2:5

Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick (ie, lampstand) out of his place, except thou repent.

What does a lampstand/menorah represent? It represents the Messiah - Jesus, His Spirit. See Zech 4...the lampstand....not by might not by power but by His spirit.

Revelation 1:20 KJV
20) The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

The candlesticks are the 7 churches, that is, 7 local assemblies. To remove "your candlestick" is to remove the messenger's ministry, the local church.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I think it must be speaking of the seed of the word having died in them....the Holy Spirit departing them entirely.

1 Peter 1:22-23 KJV
22) Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
23) Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Can such a thing be? I don't see that's possible.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Maybe it happens in some because of encountering trials and becoming bitter against God, I don't know....thinking of what would have happened to Job if he had cursed God, for example.

1 Peter 1:3-7 KJV
3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4) To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5) Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
6) Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
7) That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

Here where it says, Trial of your faith, a better word would be proving of your faith. It's a different word there from "trial".

1 Peter 1:7 LITV:
so that the proving of your faith, much more precious than perishing gold, but having been proved through fire, may be found to praise and honor and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

1 Peter 1:7 NLT:
These trials will show that your faith is genuine. It is being tested as fire tests and purifies gold—though your faith is far more precious than mere gold. So when your faith remains strong through many trials, it will bring you much praise and glory and honor on the day when Jesus Christ is revealed to the whole world.

Jesus gave us the formula in the Parable of the Sower. He sowed to 4 soils. One, no reaction. 2 of them reacted, but no fruit. Only one soil was fruitful. The seed in the rocky soil sprouted quickly, but when persecution came, it died. It had no root.

Trials and persecutions show whether one is a genuine convert or not.

God told Satan at the beginning that Job wouldn't crack. It was always an assured end.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Then you are contradicting yourself. ;)

"Impossible to renew them to repentance" has to mean that they had repented to begin with, but later fell away.

What I'm saying is though that if Jesus is to loose none that the Father gives to Him, and these are some who have been lost, then it must be that they were not among the ones the Father gave to Jesus.

Am I making sense here? Do you understand what I'm saying?

Much love!

 

[marks]

As in the case of many clashes over Scripture, there is truth in different views. We are helped here by viewing the readers not as a homogenous group who must all be classified in one category or another. Rather, they are a mixed assembly, among whom were many genuine believers needing a degree of prodding to go on in their experience of truth. There were also some who professed faith in Christ but who gave no evidence in their behavior or attitudes that they were truly regenerate.

It seems to me that this is how Paul wrote his letters, so that we could know if we are true or not. I think Hebrews contains this also.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Any who continues not were not truly of us . For had they been of us they no doubt would have continued .

I understand this to be the answer to this question, and likewise agrees with the parables.

Much love!

 

[marks]

They were all virgins (ie, betrothed) who had lamps and all were awaiting the bridegroom.

Was the man planning on marrying 10 brides? I've never thought of the parable that way.

Much love!

 

[marks]

.like His rod and His staff, to prod us along and keep us on the right track, and to correct us and prod us back onto the right track if we start to go awry of it.

I understand this to be God's means of correcting us as needed, rather than the threat of eternal condemnation which was removed in Christ, He having bore my sins on the cross.

Hebrews 12:10-13 KJV
10) For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11) Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
12) Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;
13) And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.

You may ask why this is such a core issue for me. It's because the "performance requirement" to "keep saved" undermines our walking in the Spirit. Knowing we have to keep ourselves from sinning too much, or from failing to have faith, or however we frame it to ourselves, this incites fleshy behavior.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Isa_42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

Isa_45:4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

Isa_65:9 And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.

Isa_65:22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.

Mat_24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Mat_24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Mat_24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mar_13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.

Mar_13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

Mar_13:27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Luk_18:7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?

Rom_8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Col_3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

1Ti_5:21 I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.

2Ti_2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Tit_1:1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

1Pe_1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

1Pe_2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

2Jn_1:1 The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth;
2Jn_1:13 The children of thy elect sister greet thee. Amen.

Shalom
J.

Do you think there was a change in how the Bible uses "elect" after the Gospels were written?

It seems to me that in the OT and the Gospels, the Elect refered to God's chosen nation, Israel, while Paul, some years later, used it to refer to those who are Christ's of all the nations.

Comments?

Much love!

 

[amigo de christo]

Amen brother!
2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2Ti 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
2Ti 2:17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
2Ti 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

the foundation: Pro_10:25; Isa_14:32, Isa_28:16; Mat_7:25; Luk_6:48; 1Co_3:10-11; Eph_2:20; 1Ti_6:19; Heb_11:10; Rev_21:14
standeth: Mat_24:24; Mar_13:22; Rom_8:31-35, Rom_9:11; Heb_6:18-19; 1Jn_2:19
sure: or, steady, Psa_112:6, Psa_125:1-2
having: Hag_2:23; Zec_3:9, Zec_4:7-9; Eph_4:30
The Lord: Num_16:5; Psa_1:6, Psa_37:18, Psa_37:28; Nah_1:7; Mat_7:23; Luk_13:27; Joh_10:14; Joh_10:27-30, Joh_13:18; Rom_8:28, Rom_11:2; 1Co_8:3; Gal_4:9; Rev_17:8
Let: Num_6:27; Psa_97:10; Isa_63:19, Isa_65:15; Mat_28:19; Act_9:14, Act_11:26, Act_15:17; Rom_15:9, Rom_15:20; 1Co_1:2; Eph_3:15; Rev_2:13, Rev_3:8, Rev_22:4
depart: Job_28:28; Psa_34:14, Psa_37:27; Pro_3:7; Rom_12:9; 2Co_7:1; Eph_4:17-22; Eph_5:1-11; Col_3:5-8; Tit_2:11-14; 1Pe_1:13-19; 2Pe_1:4-10, 2Pe_3:14; 1Jn_3:7-10

Now allow me some parting words for all to hear .
And i say this not because you know not the truth .
Beware of the delusion of the wicked . Beware of the error of men went wrong .
Beware of the error of the wicked . Be not a partaker of or in the deluison of the all inclusion .
Keep the hope in Christ , keep the message the same as did the apostles .
Who went not about the world to bring world peace and find common ground . They preached JESUS CHRIST
as the absolute and only means whereby a soul could be saved . KEEP the HOPE in the original gospel and do so unto the end .
For we are made partakers of Christ IF we hold our confidence , IN HIM , firm to the END .
Be not as the oprahs and the popes and many others . For oprah has preached a lie unto the masses and so have many others .
SHE Claims by mouth to be christain , she claims by mouth to believe in Christ and yet hollers
ITS NOT NECESSARY to BELIEVE ON CHRIST . as do many others , WHO DO NOT KNOW HIM .
THEY do NOT KNOW HIM . Paul KNEW CHRIST . WHEN he had the TRUE CONVERSION
Paul went about preaching JESUS CHRIST , not common ground , not finding unity with other religoins
not telling folks they had no need to BELIEVE ON CHRIST . THIS IS THE DEVILS GO SPELL FROM HELL .
And may it be a ice cold day in the lake that burns with fire before i say otherwise .
Many holler and call me judgmental . Saying i do not love my neighbor or the brethren .
BUT I DO LOVE THEM , ITS WHY I EXPOSE THE LIE that cannot save them .
If folks recieve not your testimony , JESUS DIDNT say OH WELL it dont matter if they believe not , just find common ground .
HE said shake the dust off your feet AS a testimony against them . IT WILL BE FAR BETTER for even sodom and gomorrah
than for them . YET i am known as the hater and accuser of the brethren FOR DOING what , FOR POINTING ONLY TO CHRIST JESUS .
That outta telll you something right there .

 

[St. Joseph]

Then you are contradicting yourself. ;)

"Impossible to renew them to repentance" has to mean that they had repented to begin with, but later fell away.

They were converted jews who turned back to sacrificing animals for their sins making Chist of none effect

 

[St. Joseph]

Do you think there was a change in how the Bible uses "elect" after the Gospels were written?

It seems to me that in the OT and the Gospels, the Elect refered to God's chosen nation, Israel, while Paul, some years later, used it to refer to those who are Christ's of all the nations.

Comments?

Much love!

If you are a christian you are the elect. There are only 2 types of people,the Saints and the Aints

 

[amigo de christo]

But Hebrews 6 is NOT speaking about born again believers-and there is something I wanted to ask you a long time ago-do you read Calvin's commentaries?
So, in Hebrews 6 the eklektoi cannot be deceived-impossible to be deceived-yet "born again" believers-sealed with the Holy Spirit can be deceived?
Someone else even went so far, yesterday, to say it is the elect, in this passage, which can fall away.
I am familiar with the conditional clauses-

My advice is dont follow calvin . Even a broke clock is spot on right twice a day .
The conditional clauses all point to KEEPING THE FAITH IN CHRIST .
Here is something so simple you would think even a little child would grasp it .
If my faith is in something , I BELIEVE IT . I believe WHAT JESUS said , I BELIEVE every WORD HE EVER SAID .
And if we BELIEVE HE IS TRULY THE CHRIST OF GOD , THE WORD OF GOD and that GOD IS HIS WORD
WHY on earth are folks omitting HIS WORDS . IF i believe GOD is who HE IS , You better BELIEVE
i am gonna honor HIM and BELIEVE ALL THINGS HE SAID . GOD IS GOD and man is but man .
WHO the heck does man think HE is to try and alter and twist ONE WORD GOD ever said , CHRIST ever said .
Think about how simple that is . Many folks holler they believe in GOD , believe in HIS CHRIST
but they sure dont seem to really BELIEVE at all . I take JESUS at his every word .
IF HE said if one believth not they are condemend . I BELIEVE HIM , not what man tries to tell me about HIM .
I BELIEVE HIS WORDS . If one believes not in the WORD and words of GOD , of the prophets , of the apostels
who were SPIRIT inspired . HOW on earth do they really BELIEVE at all . ITS head knowledge at most
Even the devils know GOD EXISTS , EVEN THE DEMONS KNOW JESUS is the CHRIST .
IF we truly BELIEVE we would do as abraham did . GOD SAID ABRAHAM BELIEVED ABRAHAM DID .

 

[amigo de christo]

Do you think there was a change in how the Bible uses "elect" after the Gospels were written?

It seems to me that in the OT and the Gospels, the Elect refered to God's chosen nation, Israel, while Paul, some years later, used it to refer to those who are Christ's of all the nations.

Comments?

Much love!

The elect are the believing jews and gentiles . THIS is so easy to see .
The elect are the SHEEP , they are the body the church which consists of anyone who BELIEVES IN HE WHOM GOD DID SEND .
Now many say OH we believe in GOD . DO they . DO they really .
I tell us all one thing and this is ABSOLUTE TRUTH . If a man rejects CHRIST HE JUST REJECTED GOD . PEROID .

 

[amigo de christo]

muslims claim to believe in and follow MOSES , and the GOD of torah .
The jews claimed to believe on moses and the GOD of torah .
BUT JESUS TOLD THEM . HAD YOU REALLY BELIEVED MOSES you would have BELIEVED ME .
IF YOU TRULY LOVED GOD you WOULD HAVE LOVED ME .
Muslims follow satan as does any other religoin who follows NOT CHRIST . PEROID .

 

[amigo de christo]

If you are a christian you are the elect. There are only 2 types of people,the Saints and the Aints

Remember that the next time you read and HE was given power against the SAINTS .
not the aints . The SAINTS . THIS WORLD is not gonna love us , the whore , the beast , the dragon and the false prophets
are gonna come against us . prepare to suffer for CHRIST , prepare to lose all for HIS NAME sake .
And flee the all inclusive many path to GOD LIE from HELL , from the belly of the dragon .

 

[Johann]

Do you think there was a change in how the Bible uses "elect" after the Gospels were written?

It seems to me that in the OT and the Gospels, the Elect refered to God's chosen nation, Israel, while Paul, some years later, used it to refer to those who are Christ's of all the nations.

Comments?

Much love!

Chosen (1588) (eklektos [word study] from eklegomai = to choose, select or pick out for one's self - from root verb kaleo [word study]) describes those who were selected out of a larger number, but (and this is very important!) it does not imply the rejection of those not chosen (cf the other similar uses of eklektos Ro 8:33-note, Col 3:12-note, 2Ti 2:10-note).

Eklektos - 22x in 22v - Mt 22:14; 24:22, 24, 31; Mark 13:20, 22, 27; Luke 18:7; 23:35; Rom 8:33; 16:13; Col 3:12; 1 Tim 5:21; 2 Tim 2:10; Titus 1:1; 1 Pet 1:1; 2:4, 6, 9; 2John 1:1, 13; Rev 17:14.

NAS = choice(2), choice man(1), chosen(1), chosen(9), chosen one(1), elect(8).

Eklektos - 80x in the non-apocryphal Septuagint (LXX) -

Gen 23:6; 41:2, 4f, 7, 18, 20; Ex 14:7; 30:23; Num 11:28; Deut 12:11; Jdg 20:15, 34; 1 Sam 24:2; 26:2; 2 Sam 8:8; 21:6; 22:27; 1 Kgs 4:20, 23; 2 Kgs 8:12; 19:23; 1 Chr 7:40; 9:22; 16:13; 18:8; Ezra 5:8; Neh 5:18; Esther 8:12; Job 37:11; Ps 18:26; 78:31; 89:3, 19; 105:6, 43; 106:5, 23; 141:4; Pr 8:19; 12:24; 17:3; Song 5:15; 6:9f; Isa 22:7f; 28:16; 40:30; 42:1; 43:20; 45:4; 49:2; 54:12; 65:9, 15, 23; Jer 3:19; 10:17; 22:7; 25:34; 31:39; 46:15; 48:15; Lam 1:15; 5:13f; Ezek 7:20; 19:12, 14; 25:9; 27:20, 24; 31:16; Dan 11:15; Amos 5:11; Hab 1:16; Hag 2:7; Zech 7:14; 11:16;
1Pe 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
1Pe 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

I think you are correct-1Pet 1:2 some interpret it with a Calvinistic "spin" and "many are called-few chosen"-maybe you can add your thoughts on election, saint-holy ones-foreknowledge

(1) Calling = klesis

(2) Called = kletos

(3) Chosen = eklektos from ek = out + kaleo = literally “called-out ones” and often used in the NT as a synonym for believers (Col 3:12-note; 2Ti 2:10-note; Titus 1:1-note).

(4) Church = ekklesia from ek = out or out from + kaleo = the idea is to call out from. Wuest adds that "In classical Greek ekklesia referred to an assembly of the citizens summoned by the town crier. It is used in Acts 19:32-41 in its purely classical meaning. The town clerk dismissed the citizens who had been gathered together by the craftsmen of Ephesus. In its every other occurrence, it is translated “church,” the church being looked upon as a called-out body of people, called out of the world of unsaved humanity to become the people of God. The word refers either to the Mystical Body of Christ made up of saved individuals only (Ephesians), or to the local churches, as for instance Ro 16:5; Gal 1:2. The word “assembly” is a good one-word translation of ekklesia. The genius of the word points to the fact that in the mind of God, the Church of Jesus Christ is a called-out group of people, separated out from the world to be a people that should maintain their separation from the world out of which they have been called."

In the Septuagint it is used to designate the gathering of Israel, summoned for any definite purpose, or a gathering regarded as representative of the whole nation. In Acts 7:38 it is used of Israel;

(5) Parakaleo from para = beside + kaleo means “to call to one’s side, call for, summon,” the context indicating the purpose of the summons. It meant also “to address, speak to, (call to, call on),” which may be done in the way of exhortation, entreaty, comfort, instruction. Hence, there results a variety of senses in which it is used. Then it came to mean “to beg, entreat, beseech.” Finally, it comes to mean “to encourage, strengthen, to comfort.” It combines the ideas of exhorting, comforting, and encouraging in Rom. 12:8; I Cor. 14:31; I Thes. 3:2.

Compare parakletos (root verb = kaleo) the name of the Holy Spirit, our Paraclete. Thus Paraclete means "one who is called alongside" which speaks to us the ideas of comfort, exhortation, and even admonishment, all roles of the Holy Spirit.

(6) Proskaleo from pros = towards, facing, to + kaleo means literally to call towards and so to call to oneself, to bid to come. Mark 6:7 says that Jesus "summoned (proskaleo) the twelve". In other words He called the 12 to Himself. MacArthur adds that "It is an intense term that means to call someone to oneself in order to confront him face to face. It is used of God’s calling the Gentiles to Himself through the gospel (Acts 2:39) and of His calling His chosen men and entrusting them with proclaiming the gospel (Acts 13:2; 16:10). When Jesus summoned His twelve disciples, He was making more than a casual request. The writer’s choice of verbs seems to imply that this summoning was connected to an official commissioning to the Lord’s service." Has He not called you and me into His service, to be used for His good purposes? (cp Ep 2:10)

Johann.

 

[St. Joseph]

Remember that the next time you read and HE was given power against the SAINTS .
not the aints . The SAINTS . THIS WORLD is not gonna love us , the whore , the beast , the dragon and the false prophets
are gonna come against us . prepare to suffer for CHRIST , prepare to lose all for HIS NAME sake .
And flee the all inclusive many path to GOD LIE from HELL , from the belly of the dragon .

And its fast approaching