The Coming Rapture

[ewq1938]

Do you have the scripture on that?

Yes.

2Co 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2Co 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

The new body is in heaven! Here Paul uses an analogy of a building, house and tabernacle to represent a physical body. One of these is an "earthly house" meaning the mortal flesh body we are born into and then a heavenly house which is in heaven that represents the new immortal body. This speaks of when a saved humans body dies (dissolved) that there is another body in heaven waiting for them and the time of Resurrection. There is nothing in the passage about the person's spirit returning to their dissolved/dead body and it being brought back to life. Paul speaks of a different body that already exists in heaven.
Paul knew he wasn't returning to his old body.

He speaks of the mortal body being dissolved and a new body that is waiting in heaven. Clearly that is not bringing the dissolved body back to life and changing it which would eliminate the need for the new body in heaven that he mentions.

2Co 5:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
2Co 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

Paul writes that he desires to be clothed with the house from Heaven and says it is eternal in Heaven. That's the resurrection body and it is from heaven not from the Earth nor from an Earthly grave.

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

The dead saints that resurrect are not brought to Jesus in a rapture but are brought with Jesus before the rapture even begins. That's a very important thing to recognize. Only those living saints are raptured and brought to Jesus and those he brought with him from heaven.

 

[The Light]

Yes.

2Co 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2Co 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

I thought this might be what you were referring to. I poked around before I asked the question.

The new body is in heaven! Here Paul uses an analogy of a building, house and tabernacle to represent a physical body. One of these is an "earthly house" meaning the mortal flesh body we are born into and then a heavenly house which is in heaven that represents the new immortal body. This speaks of when a saved humans body dies (dissolved) that there is another body in heaven waiting for them and the time of Resurrection. There is nothing in the passage about the person's spirit returning to their dissolved/dead body and it being brought back to life. Paul speaks of a different body that already exists in heaven.
Paul knew he wasn't returning to his old body.

He speaks of the mortal body being dissolved and a new body that is waiting in heaven. Clearly that is not bringing the dissolved body back to life and changing it which would eliminate the need for the new body in heaven that he mentions.

2Co 5:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
2Co 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

Paul writes that he desires to be clothed with the house from Heaven and says it is eternal in Heaven. That's the resurrection body and it is from heaven not from the Earth nor from an Earthly grave.

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

The dead saints that resurrect are not brought to Jesus in a rapture but are brought with Jesus before the rapture even begins. That's a very important thing to recognize. Only those living saints are raptured and brought to Jesus and those he brought with him from heaven.

I read this different than you (imagine that, LOL)

1 Thessalonians 4
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

The alive that remain unto the coming of the Lord will not prevent them which are asleep.

I see that as the dead in Christ rise first, as the alive that remain do not prevent them which are asleep.

When the Lord comes for the alive that remained, He will bring the dead that were raised previously with Him.

 

[ewq1938]

When the Lord comes for the alive that remained, He will bring the dead that were raised previously with Him.

Because they are raised in heaven where the new body currently is. The dead just don't get the new body until the second coming.

 

[Taken]

The Coming Rapture​

Newsflash -

The Rapture is NOT for Everyone!

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

I thought this might be what you were referring to. I poked around before I asked the question.




I read this different than you (imagine that, LOL)

1 Thessalonians 4
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

The alive that remain unto the coming of the Lord will not prevent them which are asleep.

I see that as the dead in Christ rise first, as the alive that remain do not prevent them which are asleep.

When the Lord comes for the alive that remained,

He will bring the dead that were raised previously with Him.

Yes. A consecutive event.
The bodily dead in Christ First, immediately followed by the alive in Christ…together meeting the Lord IN the Air / Clouds.

The dead “in Christ”, are (departed saved souls, quickened Spirits (ie born again spirit of man), IN heaven, and their body’s dead in the grave. ( not yet risen ).

When the Lord descends From High Heaven, to the Clouds…(lower Heaven)…
He “has” with Him…the Reward of those “IN Christ”…
Their “saved “(restored )”soul”…
Their “quickened (born again) “spirit”…
Raises their Body (anew), and returns their Saved soul and quickened spirit to their their (anew) Risen body.

Those (body’s) Alive “In Christ” When the Lord descends to the Clouds…
* Still have their Saved soul and Quickened spirit…”IN” their Body.
* Their Body is “Raised” (anew), along with their Already Saved and Quickened spirit.
“They” ( because of the Lords Timing of Descent ), did not experience a “physical” bodily Death, ( They experienced a “spiritual death” / crucified with Jesus ), and are Raised (Made), Bodily (anew), to meet the Lord in the air…and See Him “as He IS” (Spirit)…and thus forth, with Him Forever, whereever He is.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[JLB]

Except Paul said the new body is in heaven so they would receive the body in heaven before leaving to follow Jesus.

Please quote the scripture that says the resurrected body of the dead in Christ is already in heaven before He resurrects it from the dead.


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16

• For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

The dead in Christ, which is the dead body of the one in Christ, remains in the grave until the coming of the Lord, in which at the trumpet of God, all the dead in Christ are resurrected and then all who are alive and remain, are caught up with them.

 

[rebuilder 454]

No sir. When Jesus sets His feet on the Mount of Olives that is the return. That event occurs AFTER Jesus returns with the armies of heaven in Revelation 19.


When Jesus returns for His Church, the Lord Himself will come. The world will not see Him............only believers.

When the Lord comes again for the second harvest which is the Jews from the earth and the Church from heaven...........Jesus will remain in the clouds. He will send His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth.

Again, I ask you. If Jesus shows up for a harvest with tens of thousands of angels, do you think He will show up WITHOUT POWER AND GLORY? It's a simple yes or no question.

Here is the 6th seal harvest. It is seen in Matthew 24.........power and glory.
Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.


So I guess you believe when comes and all eyes see his coming, He will NOT be in power and glory. Jesus arrives in the clouds and there are thousands and thousands and thousands of angels flying and you conclude the He doesn't come in power and glory.

Then when we look in Revelation 19 which is Jesus returning with the armies of heaven.............for destruction...........and vengeance...........and wrath. Somehow you see a harvest of believers which is what happens in Matthew 24.

You are in denial of the FACTS.

Two more questions for you.

When believers are killed for their faith................do you call that the great tribulation or the wrath of God?

When God comes at Armageddon............ is that the great tribulation or the wrath of God?

Can you answer these questions?

QUOTE
" when the Lord comes again for the second harvest which is the Jews from the earth and the Church from heaven...........Jesus will remain in the clouds. He will send His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth."

Re read it.
No angels gathering the elect Jews in Rev 14:14
In fact it is JESUS HOLDING THE SICKLE.
You add much.
The rapture is 1 coming
The harvest of rev14:14 is another
The white horses in Rev 19 is the third.
Only in rev 19 does he touch earth.

You are making way too much over word definitions.
So you miss the target.

 

[The Light]

Yes. A consecutive event.
The bodily dead in Christ First, immediately followed by the alive in Christ…together meeting the Lord IN the Air / Clouds.

I don't believe after the dead in Christ rise that it will be immediately followed by the alive in Christ. The alive remain. The dead in Christ go to heaven.

The dead Christ rise first. This is the barley harvest. Celebrated on the Feast of Pentecost. Barley and wheat cakes are presented by the priest to God, but wheat is not harvested until the end of summer. When the Lord Himself comes for the wheat, He will bring the alive with Him.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Yes. A consecutive event.
The bodily dead in Christ First, immediately followed by the alive in Christ…together meeting the Lord IN the Air / Clouds.

The dead “in Christ”, are (departed saved souls, quickened Spirits (ie born again spirit of man), IN heaven, and their body’s dead in the grave. ( not yet risen ).

When the Lord descends From High Heaven, to the Clouds…(lower Heaven)…
He “has” with Him…the Reward of those “IN Christ”…
Their “saved “(restored )”soul”…
Their “quickened (born again) “spirit”…
Raises their Body (anew), and returns their Saved soul and quickened spirit to their their (anew) Risen body.

Those (body’s) Alive “In Christ” When the Lord descends to the Clouds…
* Still have their Saved soul and Quickened spirit…”IN” their Body.
* Their Body is “Raised” (anew), along with their Already Saved and Quickened spirit.
“They” ( because of the Lords Timing of Descent ), did not experience a “physical” bodily Death, ( They experienced a “spiritual death” / crucified with Jesus ), and are Raised (Made), Bodily (anew), to meet the Lord in the air…and See Him “as He IS” (Spirit)…and thus forth, with Him Forever, whereever He is.

Glory to God,
Taken

Yes.
Mr light changes that to what postribbers believe.
He mixes doctrines and has created a unique doctrine.
I have never, in over 30 years of debate , seen his doctrine.
It is based on "word definition".
But once things he formulated get off, he makes the rest of the events fit.
They do not, and he will not examine the inconsistency.
Why?
Because he has a gigantic investment in his formula.
I have seen this before.
He will never admit to Rev 19, Rev 14, and can not address acts 1 ( "like manner" return of Jesus).

It is a no brainer that the dead in Christ resurrect, are joined with their spirits at some point in the air ( those Jesus brings with him), and then those alive ones join THAT MULTITUDE in the sky.
No brainer.

 

[rebuilder 454]

I don't believe after the dead in Christ rise that it will be immediately followed by the alive in Christ. The alive remain. The dead in Christ go to heaven.

The dead Christ rise first. This is the barley harvest. Celebrated on the Feast of Pentecost. Barley and wheat cakes are presented by the priest to God, but wheat is not harvested until the end of summer. When the Lord Himself comes for the wheat, He will bring the alive with Him.

Nope.
The group meets in the air.
Both the dead in Christ, and those raptured alive.
ALL go to heaven.
The 2 harvests, ( barley &wheat ) are the rapture and later the innumerable number beheaded by the AC.
(After the innumerable number harvest, the TIMES OF THE GENTILES ( the church) is completed.
That is why you do not see the church on earth after the innumerable number harvest.

Again you have to factor in " times of Gentiles completed" AND Romans 9, 10, & 11.
The church ends on earth.
GOD fixes his attention on the Covenant people ( his Jewish wife).
7 yr trib.

" the days shortened" MEANS the trib is shortened at Rev 14.
AHEM....The gathering of the Jews...again Rev 14.

Soooo... much you will not factor in.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Tribulation is the persecution of Christians.

The resurrection and rapture occur at His coming.

The second coming of Christ.


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
1 Thessalonians 4:15


The coming of the LORD is after the great tribulation.

When it says "ALL TAKE THE MARK every man woman and child" where are you in that dynamic???
You either take it and ,as you say , "go through the trib" or you refuse it and get martyred.
So how on earth is that postrib doctrine e even possible????

When it says that power is given to the Antichrist to overcome the church. And then it says he does in fact overcome the church. What do you do with that?
he has a job to do, And that is to murder all the Christians.
And he is very good at his job. Because power is given unto him to do his job.

What do You do with the verse that says they overcame the Antichrist by the blood of the lamb and the word of their testimony and they love not their lives. Unto death which is a vivid on mistake of a picture of martyrdom?

Just the Antichrist dynamic alone, blows a hole in postrib doctrine that you could sail ship through.
IOW you are denying obvious facts in order to embrace a fallacy.

 

[rebuilder 454]

of course the dead in Christ are in heaven.

They return with Christ to receive their resurrected bodies.

Amen the pretrib rapture doctrine 100% believes that and it fits like a glove.

 

[rebuilder 454]

The Coming Rapture​

Newsflash -

The Rapture is NOT for Everyone!

Glory to God,
Taken

Only half the church is raptured.
According to Jesus.

 

[The Light]

QUOTE
" when the Lord comes again for the second harvest which is the Jews from the earth and the Church from heaven...........Jesus will remain in the clouds. He will send His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth."

Re read it.
No angels gathering the elect Jews in Rev 14:14
In fact it is JESUS HOLDING THE SICKLE.
You add much.

Right Jesus holds the sickle....... and sends His angels to gather the elect, just as Matthew 24 says. Revelation 14:14 is the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24. It occurs at the 6th seal. It is a harvest.

Yes, the elect Jews are gathered from the earth............immediately after the tribulation OF THOSE DAYS. The Church is in heaven BEFORE the tribulation.

It is the Jews that go through the great tribulation. The Word of God is clear on this. Those that get victory over the beast are singing the song of Moses. They are of the 12 tribes across the earth.

Revelation 15
2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

The rapture is 1 coming
The harvest of rev14:14 is another
The white horses in Rev 19 is the third.
Only in rev 19 does he touch earth.

I totally agree with this.

The rapture of the Church will be a secret coming. The dead in Christ rise first in the spring and alive remain until the end of summer.

The harvest of Revelation 14:14 is the second coming when all eyes see the coming of the Lord. JESUS REMAINS IN THE CLOUDS. He does not touch the earth at this time. At this rapture, all go to heaven for the marriage supper. This harvest occurs at the 6th seal and is the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24........as marked by the signs of the sun and moon being darkened and the stars falling from heaven. Then seventh seal is opened and the wrath of God begins.

Rev 19 is the third. This is Armageddon. After Armageddon Jesus will set His feet on the mount of Olives.

You are making way too much over word definitions.
So you miss the target.

How can I be missing the target when everything I am saying is proven by the Word of God?

You have been taught that the tribulation and the wrath of God are the same thing. I see you were unable to answer my 2 questions about the tribulation and the wrath of God.

The great tribulation is when saints are killed for their faith by the beast. This begins when the AOD is set up. The great tribulation is the 5th seal.

The wrath of God is when God punishes unbelievers. The wrath of God is the 7th seal.

I have no clue how you can conclude the tribulation and wrath are the same thing other than that's what you were taught. The scriptures certainly do not support this belief, nor does common sense.

 

[rebuilder 454]

I thought this might be what you were referring to. I poked around before I asked the question.




I read this different than you (imagine that, LOL)

1 Thessalonians 4
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

The alive that remain unto the coming of the Lord will not prevent them which are asleep.

I see that as the dead in Christ rise first, as the alive that remain do not prevent them which are asleep.

When the Lord comes for the alive that remained, He will bring the dead that were raised previously with Him.

When it says "they meet the Lord in the air ", what do you do with that?

 

[The Light]

When it says "they meet the Lord in the air ", what do you do with that?

1 Thessalonians 4
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The Lord brings the dead, which have already risen, with him when He comes for the alive that remain. The dead are in the clouds. The alive are caught up together with those that are already in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air.

 

[Taken]

I don't believe after the dead in Christ rise that it will be immediately followed by the alive in Christ.

I do believe it is immediate.

1 Thes 4:
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Then indicates immediately following,
Rather than denoting different times, days.

The alive remain. The dead in Christ go to heaven.

The dead Christ rise first. This is the barley harvest. Celebrated on the Feast of Pentecost. Barley and wheat cakes are presented by the priest to God, but wheat is not harvested until the end of summer. When the Lord Himself comes for the wheat, He will bring the alive with Him.

 

[Taken]

Only half the church is raptured.
According to Jesus.

There are in the “man made church organizations”…
* Converted, members of Christs Church.
* Uncommitted Believers.
* Wishy Washy who vacillate between belief, doubt, denial.
* Deniers, for community clout and please another.
* Deniers, Trolling to sew seeds of Doubt.
* Pedophiles, scouting opportunities.
* Preachers, willing to preach comforting Lies to attendees.
* Curious.
* Entertainment.

So while church pews may regularly be packed full…Few will experience the Rapture.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[JLB]

When it says "ALL TAKE THE MARK every man woman and child" where are you in that dynamic???

Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. Revelation 14:9-12

• Here is the patience of the saints;

Jesus said it this way concerning the great tribulation —


But he who endures to the end shall be saved. Matthew 24:13

 

[JLB]

Amen the pretrib rapture doctrine 100% believes that and it fits like a glove.

The pretrib group believes they go before the great tribulation.


In fact, the resurrection of the dead in Christ occurs before the rapture at the coming of the Lord.