The Coming Rapture

[rebuilder 454]

Let me ask a couple of questions.

When Jesus returns for the Church is it a secret rapture?

When Jesus returns for the Jews is it a secret rapture? Or are the kings of the earth and rich men saying to mountains fall on us and hide us from the one that sits on the throne.

Rev 6
The sixth seal fits Rev 19 absolutely perfectly.
Matt 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Maybe a fresh read will help??????
Power and great glory is AT ONLY ONE COMING.
AHEM....REV 19
NO OTHER PLACE does He come in power and great glory.

You have made that mistake by that strict adherence of word definition. "Trib vs wrath"

 

[The Light]

Rev 6
The sixth seal fits Rev 19 absolutely perfectly.

Nothing in Revelation 19 fits the sixth seal or Matthew 24:29-31. Again............If Jesus shows up in the clouds with His angels to gather the elect, are you saying that He will not be in power and glory?

Revelation 19
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

It boggles my mind that you think Jesus returning with the armies of heaven to smite the nations has anything whatsoever to do with Jesus sending His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. Nothing in common whatsoever. Revelation 19 is Jesus coming on the Day of the Lord to Armageddon. Matthew 24 is a harvest BEFORE the wrath of God.

The 6th seal is a harvest. The is why there is a great multitude in heaven in Revelation 7 and at the marriage supper in the first part of Revelation 19.

The 7th seal is the wrath of God. There is no way the 6th and the 7th trumpet of wrath in the 7th seal are the same thing.

You only need common sense for this.

Matt 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Maybe a fresh read will help??????
Power and great glory is AT ONLY ONE COMING.
AHEM....REV 19
NO OTHER PLACE does He come in power and great glory.

You have made that mistake by that strict adherence of word definition. "Trib vs wrath"

You don't understand what you are reading. The surprising thing is you understand there are two raptures. The first rapture is the Church before the tribulation.

The second rapture is the twelve tribes BEFORE the wrath of God. Here it is.........

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

And here are the unbelievers being cast into the wrath of God.

Revelation 14
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Here is another view. This occurs at the 6th seal

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Here is another view of wrath getting ready to happen after the harvest which happens at the end of the tribulation.

Revelation 6
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

All these preachers that say wrath and tribulation are the same thing don't understand the book of Revelation...........no matter how many books they have written.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Because the innumerable number came out of the great tribulation, and were martyred.

The fact that they were martyred shows that they experienced great tribulation. Are you somehow unaware that great tribulation does not only refer to God's wrath?

Acts 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

The great multitude of the souls of dead believers in heaven entered the kingdom of God "through much tribulation".

The Martyrs were no longer kept under the altar.
Their martyrs numbers are fulfilled.
They are in the general population.

Where does scripture teach this? You're not going to convince me of anything just by your words without supporting scripture. You should know that by now.

Then...Those that were left behind, are martyred, exactly as God's word says.

No, it doesn't say that. Do you not know what the word martyred means? It means to be persecuted and killed for your faith. Those left behind will be killed by God's wrath just like those left behind out of the ark in Noah's day and those left behind in Sodom in Lot's day.

The innumerable number authenticated that there is nobody left for some assumed postrib rapture.

No, it doesn't. You're just saying a bunch of things here without using scripture to back it up.

Postrib rapture THEORY , as I have pointed out, is DOA.

Your claims mean nothing without any evidence to back them up. But, as we've talked about before, this discussion becomes meaningless if we don't define the terms the same way. In your view, "trib" means God's wrath. In my post-trib view, "trib" means significantly increased apostasy, deception and wickedness. So, I'm not saying that His coming is post-wrath. The wrath of the Lamb will come down on the earth after He descends from heaven and we meet Him in the air.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Nothing in Revelation 19 fits the sixth seal or Matthew 24:29-31. Again............If Jesus shows up in the clouds with His angels to gather the elect, are you saying that He will not be in power and glory?

Revelation 19
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

It boggles my mind that you think Jesus returning with the armies of heaven to smite the nations has anything whatsoever to do with Jesus sending His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. Nothing in common whatsoever. Revelation 19 is Jesus coming on the Day of the Lord to Armageddon. Matthew 24 is a harvest BEFORE the wrath of God.

The 6th seal is a harvest. The is why there is a great multitude in heaven in Revelation 7 and at the marriage supper in the first part of Revelation 19.

The 7th seal is the wrath of God. There is no way the 6th and the 7th trumpet of wrath in the 7th seal are the same thing.

You only need common sense for this.


You don't understand what you are reading. The surprising thing is you understand there are two raptures. The first rapture is the Church before the tribulation.

The second rapture is the twelve tribes BEFORE the wrath of God. Here it is.........

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

And here are the unbelievers being cast into the wrath of God.

Revelation 14
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Here is another view. This occurs at the 6th seal

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Here is another view of wrath getting ready to happen after the harvest which happens at the end of the tribulation.

Revelation 6
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

All these preachers that say wrath and tribulation are the same thing don't understand the book of Revelation...........no matter how many books they have written.

Nope
Re read it
Rev 14:14....not at all any coming in power and glory.
You added it.
You will never be able to make Rev 14:14 into " coming in power and great glory."

Rev 14:19 is the gathering for Armageddon.
It is after THAT GATHERING Jesus comes In power and great glory , Which is revelations nineteen

 

[rebuilder 454]

Nothing in Revelation 19 fits the sixth seal or Matthew 24:29-31. Again............If Jesus shows up in the clouds with His angels to gather the elect, are you saying that He will not be in power and glory?

Revelation 19
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

It boggles my mind that you think Jesus returning with the armies of heaven to smite the nations has anything whatsoever to do with Jesus sending His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. Nothing in common whatsoever. Revelation 19 is Jesus coming on the Day of the Lord to Armageddon. Matthew 24 is a harvest BEFORE the wrath of God.

The 6th seal is a harvest. The is why there is a great multitude in heaven in Revelation 7 and at the marriage supper in the first part of Revelation 19.

The 7th seal is the wrath of God. There is no way the 6th and the 7th trumpet of wrath in the 7th seal are the same thing.

You only need common sense for this.


You don't understand what you are reading. The surprising thing is you understand there are two raptures. The first rapture is the Church before the tribulation.

The second rapture is the twelve tribes BEFORE the wrath of God. Here it is.........

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

And here are the unbelievers being cast into the wrath of God.

Revelation 14
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Here is another view. This occurs at the 6th seal

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Here is another view of wrath getting ready to happen after the harvest which happens at the end of the tribulation.

Revelation 6
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

All these preachers that say wrath and tribulation are the same thing don't understand the book of Revelation...........no matter how many books they have written.

QUOTE
"Nothing in Revelation 19 fits the sixth seal or Matthew 24:29-31. Again............If Jesus shows up in the clouds with His angels to gather the elect, are you saying that He will not be in power and glory?"

HUH???
PLEASE re read it
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

No brainer he comes on white horses WITH WRATH exactly as it says....uh AFTER ...WAY AFTER...WHEN YOU ARE INSERTING IT.
You " it does not fit"
I know
I know
It does not fit your model.
You are painted Into a corner friend.

 

[rebuilder 454]

The fact that they were martyred shows that they experienced great tribulation. Are you somehow unaware that great tribulation does not only refer to God's wrath?

Acts 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

The great multitude of the souls of dead believers in heaven entered the kingdom of God "through much tribulation".


Where does scripture teach this? You're not going to convince me of anything just by your words without supporting scripture. You should know that by now.


No, it doesn't say that. Do you not know what the word martyred means? It means to be persecuted and killed for your faith. Those left behind will be killed by God's wrath just like those left behind out of the ark in Noah's day and those left behind in Sodom in Lot's day.



No, it doesn't. You're just saying a bunch of things here without using scripture to back it up.


Your claims mean nothing without any evidence to back them up. But, as we've talked about before, this discussion becomes meaningless if we don't define the terms the same way. In your view, "trib" means God's wrath. In my post-trib view, "trib" means significantly increased apostasy, deception and wickedness. So, I'm not saying that His coming is post-wrath. The wrath of the Lamb will come down on the earth after He descends from heaven and we meet Him in the air.

QUOTE
"The fact that they were martyred shows that they experienced great tribulation. Are you somehow unaware that great tribulation does not only refer to God's wrath?

Acts 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

The great multitude of the souls of dead believers in heaven entered the kingdom of God "through much tribulation"."

Nice try.
You glossed that all up for us.
Just read it like it says
"They came out of the great trib and were murdered for not taking the mark.

But..nice try.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Nothing in Revelation 19 fits the sixth seal or Matthew 24:29-31. Again............If Jesus shows up in the clouds with His angels to gather the elect, are you saying that He will not be in power and glory?

Revelation 19
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

It boggles my mind that you think Jesus returning with the armies of heaven to smite the nations has anything whatsoever to do with Jesus sending His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. Nothing in common whatsoever. Revelation 19 is Jesus coming on the Day of the Lord to Armageddon. Matthew 24 is a harvest BEFORE the wrath of God.

The 6th seal is a harvest. The is why there is a great multitude in heaven in Revelation 7 and at the marriage supper in the first part of Revelation 19.

The 7th seal is the wrath of God. There is no way the 6th and the 7th trumpet of wrath in the 7th seal are the same thing.

You only need common sense for this.


You don't understand what you are reading. The surprising thing is you understand there are two raptures. The first rapture is the Church before the tribulation.

The second rapture is the twelve tribes BEFORE the wrath of God. Here it is.........

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

And here are the unbelievers being cast into the wrath of God.

Revelation 14
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Here is another view. This occurs at the 6th seal

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Here is another view of wrath getting ready to happen after the harvest which happens at the end of the tribulation.

Revelation 6
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

All these preachers that say wrath and tribulation are the same thing don't understand the book of Revelation...........no matter how many books they have written.

QUOTE
"It boggles my mind that you think Jesus returning with the armies of heaven to smite the nations has anything whatsoever to do with Jesus sending His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth"

Read it like it says.
The elect ARE GATHERED BY ANGELS IN HEAVEN.
What is so hard about that?????
How do you think they got on millions of horses in heaven???
They were GATHERED in heaven to the horses.
Even if you invoke the other verse that they are gathered "from heaven and the uttermost part of earth", (earth's atmosphere is the uttermost part of earth), there is no gathering of Rev 14 ANYWHERE in that.
You just blended things to fit your theory.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

QUOTE
"The fact that they were martyred shows that they experienced great tribulation. Are you somehow unaware that great tribulation does not only refer to God's wrath?

Acts 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

The great multitude of the souls of dead believers in heaven entered the kingdom of God "through much tribulation"."

Nice try.
You glossed that all up for us.

LOL. You are hilarious. I used scripture to back up what I said. You think the scripture is glossed up? You should try using scripture to support your claims for once.

Just read it like it says
"They came out of the great trib and were murdered for not taking the mark.

Hello? That's not God's wrath. In other posts you indicate that the great trib consists of God's wrath. Can't you make up your mind what you think the great trib entails?

But..nice try.

I'd say "nice try" to you as well, but you're not even trying.

 

[The Light]

Nope
Re read it
Rev 14:14....not at all any coming in power and glory.
You added it.
You will never be able to make Rev 14:14 into " coming in power and great glory."

Rev 14:19 is the gathering for Armageddon.
It is after THAT GATHERING Jesus comes In power and great glory , Which is revelations nineteen

Revelation 14:14 is the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal. It is the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 as marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars.

If Jesus does not come in power and glory why do the kings and rich etc. hide?

Revelation 6
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

It puzzles me how you can possibly think the events of the 6th seal happen in the 7th seal.

Jesus shows up with His angels for a harvest and you think that He is not in power and glory. Why the heck is everyone hiding.

6th seal is not the 7th seal.

 

[The Light]

QUOTE
"Nothing in Revelation 19 fits the sixth seal or Matthew 24:29-31. Again............If Jesus shows up in the clouds with His angels to gather the elect, are you saying that He will not be in power and glory?"

HUH???
PLEASE re read it
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

What the.......... Nothing in Revelation 19 fits the 6th seal. All you did was quote Revelation 19. But none of that is in 6th seal.

Here is where Revelation 19 fits in scripture.

Revelation 16
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

This occurs in the 7th seal, NOT IN THE 6TH SEAL.

And if you understood what you are reading you would know that it happens before the 7th trumpet, as the trumpets and vials of wrath both occur in the 7th seal.

No brainer he comes on white horses WITH WRATH exactly as it says....uh AFTER ...WAY AFTER...WHEN YOU ARE INSERTING IT.
You " it does not fit"
I know
I know
It does not fit your model.
You are painted Into a corner friend.

You don't understand what you reading. The events that occur in the 7th seal..........trumpets and vials of wrath....including Armageddon DO NOT HAPPEN IN THE 6TH SEAL.

The 6th seal is a harvest. Jesus sends His angels to gather elect from heaven and earth BEFORE the wrath of God. He comes IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION. Tribulation is when Christians are killed. The wrath of God is when God punishes sinners. They are not the same.

 

[Taken]

The Coming Rapture​

Yes!

Called by whatever name;
rapto, Rapture, Harpazo..etc.

Meaning by whatever intent;
Seize, escape, snatch, pluck, redeem..Etc.

From where to Where;
Earth to Clouds.

Why?
(individuals) Escape, not subject TO…
An “event” to take place ON the entire Earth.

What EVENT? End Days Tribulations (disturbances) SENT Down from Heaven, via Gods Warnings, via Gods Power, via Gods Authority, Gods Wrath.
(land shifts, fires, weather, etc.)

Intent to Cause? Deaths, Chaos, Fear, Discourse.

Why? Gods Jealousy and Anger.
For what? Being Doubted and Rejected and Denied.

Option for man? To Relent, Trust, Believe, Seek Gods Forgiveness and SUMBIT unto Him.
Or…
Continue Against God, succumb unto Death, without Forgiveness…and Fate to forever be Separated From God.

Why? A Rapture BEFORE Tribulations Sent Down from Heaven upon the whole world?
A man “Having been MADE WHOLE”, is not Subject TO Suffer the Coming Tribulations and Wrath of God To BE Sent upon the Whole World.

1 Thes 4:
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

“Made Whole” meaning?
Whole WHAT?
Body, soul, spirit of man.
Body already dead, crucified with Jesus.
Soul already Saved, restored.
Spirit already Quickened, born of Gods Seed.

Such man, is temporarily ( living in his Natural Body) And Spiritually Living “IN” Christ Jesus’ Body. ): called “IN Christ”.

Is such a man, Physically Sealed / Physically Marked on his Body?
No.

Why not?
Because his body has Not physically died, or been Risen Up.

Will…uncommitted (non converted) BELIEVERS be present ON Earth during the last days Tribulations sent from Heaven?
Yes.

Why? Because they Made no Commitment.
And? God did not MAKE them whole.

Can “they” become Committed “during” portions of the Last Days Tribulations sent down from Heaven?
Yes.
And?
The majority who Do Commit, will become Physically Dead, Yet Soul Saved, Spirit Quickened…
And…
Body Prepared to be Raised up, For Great Throne Judgement, ie First Mass Resurrection of men MADE Whole, by the “Word” (Jesus) of God.
1 Thes.
[14] For (Because) if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep (physically die) “in Jesus” will “God” bring with him.

The whole/converted…Wait for the “Lords” Return …
To the CLOUDS….Not the Earth.

The Lord Jesus…was witnessed Leaving the Earth, going into the Clouds, Return to Heaven (which men on Earth Did NOT See Jesus Enter Heaven.

Jesus shall Return the Same Way.
Leave Heaven, descend to the Clouds,
Pause IN THE Clouds,
Call UP His Faithful “already MADE” whole TO Him….
Before The Lamb of God, Begins Tribulations From Heaven (opening the 7 seals Judgements)…
The Lambs Wrath,
For occupants UPON the Earth…believers and unbelievers …
Who NEVER solicited The Lamb of God, to Confess their Belief IN Him, thus no agreement with the Lord for Him to MAKE them Whole (before Tribulations sent from Heaven)

The Converted…ie the Already MADE Whole
“escape” the ANGER, TRIBULATIONS, WRATH, CHAOS, MASS DEATHS, sent from Heaven upon the face of the Earth.

It’s called JUST.
God is NOT angry, disappointed in men Who opened their ears, DID, Fulfilled Gods Order and Way to Receive Forgiveness and Consent in agreement for God To “make them whole once and Forever AND Escape Gods punishment Upon the Whole World.”

If you are NOT, MADE Whole…and alive, upon the Earth during the Last days Tribulations sent Down from Heaven… expect chaos, death, destruction and suffering.
(Your natural human body will not bear the visible Seal / Mark of God, to Except you From the horrific destruction upon the face of the Earth.)

Nor were any men physically upon the face of the Earth Escaped during the First great Tribulations….and ONLY Eight, To Escape, by being RISEN UP to the Clouds Above the Earth!

Nothing new….a Repeat is Coming.
Some Have Been, (by the Lord God) Prepared….others will remain On the face of the Earth And Suffer the Consequences.

Doesn’t matter if you believe it or not.
Gods Order and Way Shall Prevail.

Glory to Our Just and Mighty Lord God,
Taken

 

[Keraz]

The Coming Rapture​

Yes!

No!
Jesus said six times; that such a thing as humans in heaven, was impossible.

Plainly; the Christian peoples are still on earth when Jesus Returns. He sends out His angels to gather them to where He is - in Jerusalem.
Rapture believes seem to avoid Revelation 12, where it tells us how half of the Christians will be kept in a safe place on earth and the other half must face persecution.

 

[Taken]

No!
Jesus said six times; that such a thing as humans in heaven, was impossible.

Which Heaven of the Heavens, are you talking about?

Which Heaven of the Heavens, was Jesus talking about?

Plainly; the Christian peoples are still on earth when Jesus Returns.

Why?

He sends out His angels to gather them to where He is - in Jerusalem.

Quote of Scripture Christians are gathered together in Jerusalem?

Rapture believes seem to avoid Revelation 12, where it tells us how half of the Christians will be kept in a safe place on earth and the other half must face persecution.

Rev 12 Scriptural quote that Speaks of Christians and a safe place ?

 

[Keraz]

Which Heaven of the Heavens, are you talking about?

Which Heaven of the Heavens, was Jesus talking about?

Both; the dwelling place of God. A Spiritual pace we humans can never go to.

Why?

We have the Great Commission to do. Matthew 28:19-20 Until the very end.

Quote of Scripture Christians are gathered together in Jerusalem?

Jerusalem is where Jesus is Returning to. Zechariah 14:4
His faithful peoples, those who endured to the end; will be with Him there.

Rev 12 Scriptural quote that Speaks of Christians and a safe place ?

Rev 12:17 mentions Christians, as the half who must remain under persecution. The other half, who go to safety, are those in verses 6 and 14.
Paralleled in Zechariah 14:2 and explained why they are divided in Daniel 11:32

Realize this: it is the rapture to heaven believers, who must prove their case, because such a thing is not in the Bible.

 

[Taken]

Both; the dwelling place of God. A Spiritual pace we humans can never go to.

You say, “THE dwelling place”… which is Vague.

Can you be “Specific” WHERE THAT place IS
Humans “can Not” Go?

Realize this: it is the rapture to heaven believers, who must prove their case, because such a thing is not in the Bible.

Ditto.

 

[Taken]

We have the Great Commission to do. Matthew 28:19-20 Until the very end.

Matt 28:
[18] And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
[19] Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
[20] Teaching them (the Nations)to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Are “You” Jewish?
Jesus came to Seek the JEWS.
Jesus sought and Preached to the JEWS.
In Matt 28 The Angel of the Lord was Speaking to JEWS.
“Their” great commission was “to Teach All Nations.”
Yes “The Angel of the Lord” said “He would be With “Them” …The JEWS”, to the End.

So, How do you “rightfully” translate “The Angel of the Lord” Speaking “exclusively TO Jews”…
and “you” change that to “include” Gentiles?

There WERE, Gentiles, at Jesus’ Tomb.
The Angel of the Lord Did NOT speak to To “Them.”


@Keraz ”Realize this: it is the rapture to heaven believers, who must prove their case, because such a thing is not in the Bible.”

Ditto.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Why did Paul only write about one of them then (1 Thess 4:14-17)? Do you think he was somehow not aware of the other one? It seems like many here don't think Paul knew what he was talking about or didn't have all the information or something, but I couldn't disagree more with that.

In the gospels, some have things completely left out by others.
It was Paul that said "no scripture is of private interpretation"
Beyond that, it was Paul that declared Rev 14:14 in romans 9,10and 11 in that the Jews would be gathered (grafted back in).

 

[rebuilder 454]

Matt 28:
[18] And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
[19] Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
[20] Teaching them (the Nations)to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Are “You” Jewish?
Jesus came to Seek the JEWS.
Jesus sought and Preached to the JEWS.
In Matt 28 The Angel of the Lord was Speaking to JEWS.
“Their” great commission was “to Teach All Nations.”
Yes “The Angel of the Lord” said “He would be With “Them” …The JEWS”, to the End.

So, How do you “rightfully” translate “The Angel of the Lord” Speaking “exclusively TO Jews”…
and “you” change that to “include” Gentiles?

There WERE, Gentiles, at Jesus’ Tomb.
The Angel of the Lord Did NOT speak to To “Them.”


@Keraz ”Realize this: it is the rapture to heaven believers, who must prove their case, because such a thing is not in the Bible.”

Ditto.

Not only that, but ANGELS preach the gospel after Rev 14: 14.
Not humans, but angels begin to preach during the trib.

Ooooops

 

[Taken]

Jerusalem is where Jesus is Returning to. Zechariah 14:4
His faithful peoples, those who endured to the end; will be with Him there.

Jesus was Last Witnessed Ascending upward From Earth TO THE CLOUDS.

Acts 1:
[9] And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

[11] Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Rev 1:
[7] Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

When Jesus…. comes with Clouds …
Every EYE Shall “Exclusively SEE Him”

Will “you” be ON the Earth, looking up?
Will “you” be UNDER the Earth looking up?
Will “you” be IN Heaven looking down?

I IN Christ will be “WITH” Him “IN” the Clouds, as Scripture Teaches. (Not Seen, by Humans on or under the Earth.)

1Thes 4:
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.[/B]

“Caught up”…IS Raptured.
“IN the Clouds”.
“For ever With the Lord, where-ever He IS”

Both the Lord Jesus Jesus…AND WE, Jew or Gentile. Who ARE “IN Christ” ARE Above The Earth “IN” the Clouds….
Before: the Great Tribulations are Sent Down from Heaven…upon the whole World.
Before The Wrath of the Lamb…
Before The Devils Wrath…
Before The Wrath of God…

And DURING the last Great Tribulations and Wrath sent down from Heaven….SOME Human men will willingly Be Becoming “MADE” whole, body, soul, spirit…and Bodily Killed….and others will not.

(those Days IS God fulfilling His Promise to ISRAEL / Gods People.Sending ISRAEL Tribesmen to Teach Israel).

Delivered Christians / Gentiles have NO Commission to fulfill during the last days Tribulations sent from Heaven upon the whole Earth.

Just as Scripture Teaches…
The First Great Tribulations Sent Down from Heaven…
The “Righteous” were ”lifted UP Above the Earth”… while Gods Tribulations, Anger, Wrath, and Destruction Upon the Earth Was unleashed By God.

Gen 7:
[17] And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.

They were “lifted up” above the Mountain tops”…
Have you Never Noticed CLOUDS Covering the Mountain tops?

Do you NOT KNOW, The Lower Heaven(S) Begin IN the CLOUDS?

Do you NOT KNOW,
*Humans, on mountain tops, IN the Clouds….
*Humans in Jets, IN the Clouds…
ARE IN the Lower Heavens?

Do you NOT KNOW,
Moses ON the mountain TOP, IN the Clouds Was Told to Remove his Shoes, BECAUSE he was Standing ON Holy Ground?

Ex 3:
[5] And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.

God CREATED HEAVEN…and Then MADE the HEAVEN have DIVISIONS…
* Lower Heavens, men can See in the day light and go there.
* Mid Heavens, the Angels Estate (men can See in the Night skys of Stars)
* High (Third Heaven), Gods Kingdom, Throne.
* And Gods Estate, where No man can Go…
??? Do you NOT KNOW, where THAT IS?

Scripture Reveals…(first mention)
Pss 8:
[1] O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens.

Above….the what? Heaven (S}!

So, point is: if you do not comprehend what and where The Heaven (S) ARE, how do you expect to come to a Valid understanding Of Those “IN” Christ Being Risen up to the Lower Heavens, above the Earth…
* Same as Faithful Noah was Risen up above the Face of the Earth, during the First Tribulations when God destroyed the Earth?

Nothing New under the Sun. Ecc. 1:9
What WAS shall be Again. Ecc. 1:9

And the Fact IS, the Committed Faithful ARE NOT Appointed To BE upon the Face of The Earth, when God once Again Destroys the Earth.

Realize this: it is the rapture to heaven believers, who must prove their case, because such a thing is not in the Bible.

Have, numerous times.

Conundrum IS, only the Lord God has the Power to Make you “understand” His Word, His Truth.

The Lord God does not Punish with His wrath, men who have willingly surrendered their Whole Life, body, soul, spirit unto Him and His Safe Keeping.
He Delivers THEM From His prepared Negative Consequences, prepared For men …Not With Him.

1Thes1:
[10] And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which “delivered us from the wrath to come.”

“Us”, in Christ, are already (past tense) Deliver-ED From the Wrath to Come.

How, is revealed.
Same WAY Faithful Noah was Deliver-ED from the Wrath to come in his Day…
Risen Up above the Face of the Earth!

Glory to God,
His Order, His Way.

Taken

 

[rebuilder 454]

Up early this am?