The Coming Rapture

[Spiritual Israelite]

There is a gap of a thousand years between verses 23 and 24.
Proved by - Jesus having just Returned, has not yet taken up the Rulership of the Kingdom, to be able to hand it back to God.

Keraz False Doctrine Version (KFDV):

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, some, but not all of those who belong to him. 24 Then a thousand years later the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The rapture (snatching away to heaven) is coming. Who will be ready? In a time when the whole world (including Christendom) is deceived by the Devil, will we seek the Lord and wash our robes in the Blood of the Lamb now, by choice; or will we delay this until the Great Tribulation compels us to, if at all?

There will be no snatching away to heaven. Scripture teaches that we will meet Jesus "in the air" when He comes, not in heaven (1 Thess 4:14-17). And He's not taking us to heaven after that. If that was the case, then we would just meet Him in heaven and there would be no point in meeting Him in the air.

Also, scripture teaches that the rapture will happen AFTER the tribulation of those days, not before.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[Davy]

John Gill (1748)

Dr. John Gill was one of the most brilliant scholars of his day. This Calvinist Baptist theologian wrote a full commentary set on the Bible in 1748. In this commentary he made a statement in his notes on 1 Thessalonians 4 that supported a time difference between the rapture of the saints and the coming of Christ to earth. He said:

....here Christ will stop and will be visible to all, and as easily discerned by all, good and bad, as the body of the sun at noon-day; as yet He will not descend on earth, because it is not fit to receive Him; but when that and its works are burnt up, and it is purged and purified by fire, and become a new earth, He'll descend upon it, and dwell with his saints in it: and this suggests another reason why He'll stay in the air, and His saints shall meet Him there, and whom He'll take up with Him into the third heaven, till the general conflagration and burning of the world is over, and to preserve them from it....

Sorry, but Dr. Gill was wrong, and went 'outside' The Bible Scriptures with his idea of Christ stopping in mid-air.

Zechariah 14 reveals on the day of Christ's coming, which is that "day of the Lord" timing, that HIS feet will touch down upon the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and a great valley will be formed there. And it also says He brings all His saints with Him there.

Christ's future "thousand years" reign with His elect is shown there will be on earth, even as Rev.5:10 reveals His elect saints that reign with Him will reign ON THE EARTH.

 

[Keraz]

Keraz False Doctrine Version (KFDV):

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, some, but not all of those who belong to him. 24 Then a thousand years later the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.

It is your false doctrine; to have 'all' resurrected when Jesus Returns,
Revelation 20:4-5, indisputably refutes you. In plain Words: The rest of the dead must wait until the thousand years has ended.

 

[rebuilder 454]

There is no rapture of the Church. What is called "rapture" is not a departure to heaven, but on the contrary, an aliyah to the Lord in Israel of the "five wise virgins".

Because we are now ALREADY living in heaven, if we are in Christ:

And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: (Ephesians 2:6)

First the Lord must come down from heaven to earth:

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (1 Thessalonians 4:16)

The Lord will come down from heaven to the land of Israel and remain here forever. The moment of His Second Coming is described in the Bible:

Then said the Lord unto me; This gate shall be shut, it shall not be opened, and no man shall enter in by it; because the Lord, the God of Israel, hath entered in by it, therefore it shall be shut. (Ezekiel 44:2)

The "glory of the Lord," the "chosen from the four winds," aka the "Philadelphian Church" of Revelation, "the full number of the Gentiles," will enter the eastern gate of the Temple. They will enter the gate until the day of Yom Kippur. When the eastern gate closes, it will be that very "twinkling of an eye" when the status of the people who entered these gates will change: they will become the incarnation of Jesus Christ at the Second Coming.

After this, we must wait for the "resurrection of the dead", the Jewish people must come to life, returning to faith in God. When the Israelites receive the saints who entered the eastern gate, as they were supposed to receive Jesus at the First Coming, this will open the way for the aliyah to Israel of the remaining 5 churches of Revelation, but not all believers, but only the "wise virgins". This will be the "rapture of the Church".

"Clouds" means "multitude of people," as in Hebrews 12:1. "Air" means the socio-political atmosphere of this world, as in Ephesians 2:2. Everything will happen in this world, before everyone's eyes. The result of aliyah will be the emergence of the city of Yahweh Shammah in Israel, where the resurrected tribes of Israel will work. The emergence of this city, where they do not work for money, and not under the supervision of rabbis or bishops, where they will work voluntarily for the glory of God, will change the atmosphere of this world. The 7th bowl of wrath, poured "upon the air," will change the socio-political atmosphere of this world. Instead of the prince of the power of the air, the spirit of Christ will rule in this world.

Matthew 25.
The Virgin parable is the rapture.
So vividly depicted It is nearly impossible to miss ....and the setting is pre Tribulation.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Sorry, but Dr. Gill was wrong, and went 'outside' The Bible Scriptures with his idea of Christ stopping in mid-air.

Zechariah 14 reveals on the day of Christ's coming, which is that "day of the Lord" timing, that HIS feet will touch down upon the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and a great valley will be formed there. And it also says He brings all His saints with Him there.

Christ's future "thousand years" reign with His elect is shown there will be on earth, even as Rev.5:10 reveals His elect saints that reign with Him will reign ON THE EARTH.

Lol
Every rapture verse is pretrib setting.

 

[rebuilder 454]

There will be no snatching away to heaven. Scripture teaches that we will meet Jesus "in the air" when He comes, not in heaven (1 Thess 4:14-17). And He's not taking us to heaven after that. If that was the case, then we would just meet Him in heaven and there would be no point in meeting Him in the air.

Also, scripture teaches that the rapture will happen AFTER the tribulation of those days, not before.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Maybe include all RAPTURE VERSES.

You ONLY posted a verse that says after the trib angels gather saints In HEAVEN.

Of course that means all of them are in heaven where they are gathered to mount white horses.
Ahem.... they got there in the pretrib rapture exactly as Jesus told you.
Thank you for establishing the rapture as pretrib

The bible rules.

 

[Galgal]

Matthew 25.
The Virgin parable is the rapture.
So vividly depicted It is nearly impossible to miss ....and the setting is pre Tribulation.

According to the parable of the virgins, the rapture occurs (1) after the arrival of the Bridegroom, (2) at the wedding feast. The "Bridegroom", Jesus Christ at the Second Coming, will appear in the Third Temple - Ezekiel 44:2. The wedding feast also requires a Temple:

Then he brought me forth into the utter court, and caused me to pass by the four corners of the court; and, behold, in every corner of the court there was a court.
In the four corners of the court there were courts joined of forty cubits long and thirty broad: these four corners were of one measure.
And there was a row of building round about in them, round about them four, and it was made with boiling places under the rows round about.
Then said he unto me, These are the places of them that boil, where the ministers of the house shall boil the sacrifice of the people.
(Ezekiel 46:21-24)

24 rooms on a pavement along the perimeter of the walls of the outer court are refectory halls with 2304 seats:



The righteous are in great tribulation now. For those who have found a comfortable place for themselves in the prodigal religion, great tribulation is yet to come.

Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
(2 Thessalonians 1:6,7)

Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. (Revelation 2:22)

 

[Truth7t7]

There is a gap of a thousand years between verses 23 and 24.
Proved by - Jesus having just Returned, has not yet taken up the Rulership of the Kingdom, to be able to hand it back to God.

Anyway, the rejection of the plainly stated period of a thousand years n Revelation 20, is enough to make AMill a false teaching.

Your claim is 100% false, no gap of 1,000 years is seen between verses 23-24 below, you "ADD" to scripture to suit your false doctrine, if the scripture exposes your doctrine to be false "Change It" (Scary)!

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

 (Keras Falsely Inserts A 1,000 Year Kingdom Here Adding To Scripture)

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

 

[Keraz]

our claim is 100% false, no gap of 1,000 years is seen between verses 23-24 below, you "ADD" to scripture to suit your false doctrine, if the scripture exposes your doctrine to be false "Change It" (Scary)!

What will be 'scary' for you, will be the Day the Lord sends His fiery wrath and you won't know which way to turn.
It is your removal from scripture of the plainly stated fact of a thousand year reign of King Jesus, that indicts you.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It is your false doctrine; to have 'all' resurrected when Jesus Returns,
Revelation 20:4-5, indisputably refutes you. In plain Words: The rest of the dead must wait until the thousand years has ended.

So, the plain words of Jesus mean nothing to you?

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Why do you have two hours coming when the dead will be resurrected when Jesus said there is a singular hour coming when all of the dead will be resurrected? Do you think Jesus didn't know what He was talking about? Why would you interpret Revelation 20 in such a way that contradicts what Jesus Himself taught?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Maybe include all RAPTURE VERSES.

I did. You lack the discernment to recognize them.

You ONLY posted a verse that says after the trib angels gather saints In HEAVEN.

Are you aware that Matthew 24-25 isn't the only account of the Olivet Discourse?

Mark 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, 25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. 26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

How are you going to try to get around this one?

Of course that means all of them are in heaven where they are gathered to mount white horses.
Ahem.... they got there in the pretrib rapture exactly as Jesus told you.

Jesus told me no such thing. Only you are telling me that fairy tale. The ones gathered in heaven are the souls of the dead in Christ. The ones Paul says will be with Him when He comes and the rapture occurs.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Thank you for establishing the rapture as pretrib

The bible rules.

Yes, it does. And you most certainly do not.

 

[Truth7t7]

This does not appear in the bible. The bible says some are killed, while the rest are ruled over by Christ, Rev 2, 19-20. Even the verses you quote prove a limited killing as happened in the time of fire upon Sodom. Why cite something that proves you wrong? You don't understand scripture.

Sorry Pal, 2 Peter 3:10-13 and Luke 17:29-30 is the very same second coming of Jesus Christ as "A Thief" when he will be "Revealed" in "FIRE" and the entire earth will be "DISSOLVED" by his fire in final judgement

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

 

[ewq1938]

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

This is not the day of the second coming but the day of the GWTJ.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

This disproves your claims because it shows a small, limited destruction of people rather than global. Keep using it as evidence because it proves you wrong.

 

[Keraz]

So, the plain words of Jesus mean nothing to you?

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Why do you have two hours coming when the dead will be resurrected when Jesus said there is a singular hour coming when all of the dead will be resurrected? Do you think Jesus didn't know what He was talking about? Why would you interpret Revelation 20 in such a way that contradicts what Jesus Himself taught?

Your intransigence is legendary.
Obviously, John 5:26, is a Prophecy of the GWT Judgment and the final wrap up of Gods Plan for mankind. To happen after the Millennium.

To think that Revelation 20:4-5, means 'all the dead raised', is a serious violation of scripture.

 

[Keraz]

As for 'the coming rapture';

I find it hard to credit, that intelligent people are discussing scenarios of impossible things, as though they will actually take place.
Ideas like an instantaneous change into glorified bodies, before any trials and testing, let alone Judgment. A rapture to heaven of the Church is a theory, never mentioned specifically in the Bible, that has consumed tons of paper and ink, still totally without any sure consensus of when it could happen.
All these issues have been argued, even fought over; for a hundred plus years. Doesn't this make people question the validity of those beliefs?

But what is most concerning, is the fact that the Prophetic Word does plainly tell us what God actually has planned for His people and the world in these last few years of the Church age.
That people are unable to comprehend those prophesies, is told us by Jesus in Matthew 11:25 and 1 Corinthians 3:18-20, where those learned, so called wise theologians and Bible experts, cannot understand these truths. Also in Isaiah 29:9-12, we are told that people who choose to believe false theories will be blinded to the truth and 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 says that God will place those with closed minds under a compelling delusion, which makes them believe what is false.
So that all who have not believed the truth, but made falsehood their choice, may be brought to Judgment.

Fellow Christians, my aim and desire is for all of you and as many as I can reach, to be presented with the scriptural Truth; the undeniable facts of prophecy and a common sense, logical, feasible sequence of what will happen in the near future to all of us.

It is a message of hope and God's Promise of protection during a short time of difficulty, and then how He will mightily Bless His faithful people, as they all live in peace and prosperity in all of the holy Land.
The children of the Living God. Romans 9:24-26

 

[Truth7t7]

What will be 'scary' for you, will be the Day the Lord sends His fiery wrath and you won't know which way to turn.
It is your removal from scripture of the plainly stated fact of a thousand year reign of King Jesus, that indicts you.

Your 1,000 year millennial kingdom on this earth doesn't exist in scripture, it's a man made fairy tale, just like all Christian believers being magically teleported to Jerusalem is a fairy tale, "Beam Me Up Scotty"!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Your intransigence is legendary.

LOL. Have you changed your view on anything since you've been on this forum? I'm sure you have not. Stop being a hypocrite.

Obviously, John 5:26, is a Prophecy of the GWT Judgment and the final wrap up of Gods Plan for mankind. To happen after the Millennium.

To think that Revelation 20:4-5, means 'all the dead raised', is a serious violation of scripture.

Obviously, it happens when Jesus returns since all of the dead include the dead in Christ who will be resurrected when Jesus returns (1 Thess 4:14-17, 1 Cor 15:22-23). So, you obviously once again don't have any idea of what you're talking about. Just stick to arguing against the pre-trib rapture. It's about the only thing you get right.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

This is not the day of the second coming but the day of the GWTJ.

Is that what you say about this passage as well that, like 2 Peter 3:10-13, also is about the the day of the Lord coming as a thief in the night?

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

This disproves your claims because it shows a small, limited destruction of people rather than global. Keep using it as evidence because it proves you wrong.

Do you just ignore that Jesus referred to the flood in Noah's day just before that? You don't understand what Jesus was saying in Luke 17:26-30. He talked about the scope of what will happen at His second coming by comparing it to the flood in Noah's day where He specifically pointed out that all unbelievers on the earth were destroyed. Just like Peter did in 2 Peter 3:6-7. And he talked about the type of destruction that will happen at His second coming by referring to what happened in Sodom when fire came down on the city and destroyed everyone there.

 

[Keraz]

Obviously, it happens when Jesus returns since all of the dead include the dead in Christ who will be resurrected when Jesus returns

This belief is a direct contradiction of Revelation 20:4.
ONLY those martyrs killed by the 'beast', will be brought back to life. Not made immortal until the thousand years is over.

When your beliefs conform with Written scripture, the logical and correct sequence of events will become clear to you and everyone likewise.