THE APOSTLES DID NOT ALL PREACH THE SAME GOSPEL

[CadyandZoe]

We only have to believe the gospel for us now which is found in Paul's epistles

The message is the same whether we read Paul or the other Apostles.

 

[CadyandZoe]

I think the scripture is pretty clear and understood
Galatians 3:8 says gospel,,,as does Hebrews 4:1 Mark 1:15 Galatians 2:7 Romans 1:16 Revelation 14L6
They all say something different

How are they different?

 

[Doug]

Yes, there is. That is Christian baptism. Refer to Acts chapter 19. And Matthew chapter 28.

you said.......There is nothing in scripture that says being baptized is to dedicate yourself to the teachings of Christ and the apostles.
then you said........Yes, there is. That is Christian baptism. Refer to Acts chapter 19. And Matthew chapter 28.
You have to be more specific....give me a verse please

 

[Doug]

That is not Christian baptism.

I said.....There is in scripture water baptism and washings as a ritual cleansing only for Israel

what is a Christian baptism....the only water baptisms were directed to Israel

 

[Doug]

No. John said that repentance was for the remission of sins. Baptism was performed in order to become a disciple of John. Refer to Acts 19.

You are not reading this correctly...lets look at it
[Mar 1:4 KJV] 4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

John preached the baptism of repentance......this describes or identifies his baptism...his baptism was for those who repented to be cleansed by confessing their sins (Mark 3:6)
for the remission of sins means the result of being baptized not the result of repentance

[Act 2:38 KJV] 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Look at Peter....he didnt say repent for the remission of sins....he said be baptized for remission of sins

 

[Doug]

Everyone needs to believe that Jesus is the Christ and that eternal life is through him alone.

But you cant be saved now by just believing Jesus is Christ you have to believe also in his redemption

 

[Doug]

The message is the same whether we read Paul or the other Apostles.

Please show me verses where Peter and the twelve preached Paul's gospel

 

[Doug]

How are they different?

they are different in that what they say is different.....what they say is the content of that gospel

[Gal 3:8 KJV] 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, [saying], In thee shall all nations be blessed.

[Mar 1:15 KJV] 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

[Rev 14:6-7 KJV] 6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, 7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

 

[Grailhunter]

Could you please tell me how you define Christianity and please give me some examples when Christ talked about it

You know when Christ talked about Christianity, so this is a trick question….but I will play along.
As I said Christ very seldom preached Christianity directly because His ministry was during the Old Covenant and if He spoke of the Son of God and the Holy Spirit it would be considered Idolatry.

Faith and the nature of faith and love is something that defines Christianity and nature of Christians in that they are compassionate. Christ showed that in His actions.

Here are some basic conversations to keep my response short.

Matthew 16:13-20
Jesus came into the country of Caesarea Philippi. He asked His followers, “Who do people say that I, the Son of Man, am?”
They said, “Some say You are John the Baptist and some say Elijah and others say Jeremiah or one of the early preachers.”
He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Jesus said to him, “Simon, son of Jonah, you are happy because you did not learn this from man. My Father in heaven has shown you this.

And I tell you that you are Peter. On this rock I will build My church. The powers of hell will not be able to have power over My church. I will give you the keys of the holy nation of heaven. Whatever you do not allow on earth will not have been allowed in heaven. Whatever you allow on earth will have been allowed in heaven.”Then with strong words He told His followers to tell no one that He was the Christ.

John 3:1-21
Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews; this man came to Jesus at night and said to Him, Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.” Jesus responded and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless someone is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4

Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a person be born when he is old? He cannot enter his mother’s womb a second time and be born, can he?” Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which has been born of the flesh is flesh, and that which has been born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know where it is coming from and where it is going; so is everyone who has been born of the Spirit.” Nicodemus responded and said to Him, “How can these things be?” Jesus answered and said to him,

“You are the teacher of Israel, and yet you do not understand these things? Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you people do not accept our testimony. If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? No one has ascended into heaven, except He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. 14 And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 so that everyone who

believes will have eternal life in Him. “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him. The one who believes in Him is not judged; the one who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. And this is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the Light; for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light, so that his deeds will not be exposed. But the one who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds will be revealed as having been performed in God.”

Acts chapter 9…….He is the Son of God.

 

[Doug]

You know when Christ talked about Christianity, so this is a trick question….but I will play along.
As I said Christ very seldom preached Christianity directly because His ministry was during the Old Covenant and if He spoke of the Son of God and the Holy Spirit it would be considered Idolatry.

Faith and the nature of faith and love is something that defines Christianity and nature of Christians in that they are compassionate. Christ showed that in His actions.

Here are some basic conversations to keep my response short.

Matthew 16:13-20
Jesus came into the country of Caesarea Philippi. He asked His followers, “Who do people say that I, the Son of Man, am?”
They said, “Some say You are John the Baptist and some say Elijah and others say Jeremiah or one of the early preachers.”
He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Jesus said to him, “Simon, son of Jonah, you are happy because you did not learn this from man. My Father in heaven has shown you this.

And I tell you that you are Peter. On this rock I will build My church. The powers of hell will not be able to have power over My church. I will give you the keys of the holy nation of heaven. Whatever you do not allow on earth will not have been allowed in heaven. Whatever you allow on earth will have been allowed in heaven.”Then with strong words He told His followers to tell no one that He was the Christ.

John 3:1-21
Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews; this man came to Jesus at night and said to Him, Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.” Jesus responded and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless someone is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4

Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a person be born when he is old? He cannot enter his mother’s womb a second time and be born, can he?” Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which has been born of the flesh is flesh, and that which has been born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know where it is coming from and where it is going; so is everyone who has been born of the Spirit.” Nicodemus responded and said to Him, “How can these things be?” Jesus answered and said to him,

“You are the teacher of Israel, and yet you do not understand these things? Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you people do not accept our testimony. If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? No one has ascended into heaven, except He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. 14 And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 so that everyone who

believes will have eternal life in Him. “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him. The one who believes in Him is not judged; the one who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. And this is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the Light; for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light, so that his deeds will not be exposed. But the one who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds will be revealed as having been performed in God.”

Acts chapter 9…….He is the Son of God.

It wasnt a trick question people use Bible terms but how they define them may vary

All the examples show that Christ was sent to Israel preaching the gospel of the kingdom. The believing remnant of Israel would inherit the kingdom on earth and reign with Christ as kings and priests.
Jesus preached to believe on his name, that he was Christ the Son of God.

 

[CadyandZoe]

I think the scripture is pretty clear and understood
Galatians 3:8 says gospel,,,as does Hebrews 4:1-2 Mark 1:15 Galatians 2:7 Romans 1:16 Revelation 14L6
They all say something different

We all believe that the Scripture is clear. The challenge is whether or not we understand what it says.

Christian discussion forums are a good place to check our work. And I respect you for taking the risk required to submit your ideas to the review of fellow believers.

I'm just saying that if you find more than one gospel in the New Testament, your understanding needs work. I would like to warn us from taking single verses out of context.

 

[CadyandZoe]

you said.......There is nothing in scripture that says being baptized is to dedicate yourself to the teachings of Christ and the apostles.
then you said........Yes, there is. That is Christian baptism. Refer to Acts chapter 19. And Matthew chapter 28.
You have to be more specific....give me a verse please

I am sensitive to the salvation formulas that our teachers have presented, which often appear contradictory. The verse you quoted from Peter's sermon in Acts is one of those passages that people turn into a strict formula for answering the question, "How do I get saved?" According to this interpretation, the answer is that we must first participate in a baptismal ritual and then repent of our sins. However, reducing Peter's words to a formula alters the original meaning of his message.

Before one can understand Peter's message, we must first come to understand what he meant by "be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ." Acts chapter 19 is a good place to discover how first-century Christians understood the concept.

Acts 19:1-7
It happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples. He said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said to him, “No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.” And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” And they said, “Into John’s baptism.” Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying. There were in all about twelve men.

Let's focus on the following sentence.

Into what then were you baptized?
In our modern understanding, the answer would be, “Water, I was baptized in water.” However, in the context of the first century, Paul is asking the disciples to identify their teacher. By knowing who their teacher is, he can explain what that teacher taught. We see that Paul repeated John’s teachings to the disciples, specifically informing them that John had instructed his followers to anticipate the coming of Jesus Christ. This passage helps us understand the significance of first-century Christian baptism, which was a ritual signifying a commitment to learn from and follow a specific teacher.

Therefore, Peter's exhortation to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ was an exhortation to become a dedicated student of Jesus Christ.

Now we turn to another related passage.

Matthew 28:18-20
And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
At first glance, this may seem like a commandment to baptize, but upon closer examination, we realize that the true commandment is to make disciples. But whose disciples will they become? The act of baptism signifies the disciple's commitment to learn from and obey not only the Father but also the Son and the Holy Spirit.

observe all that I commanded you
Here, the Lord emphasizes the connection between learning and doing. Such individuals will not only learn from the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit but also observe all that He commands.

Peter's message to Israel cannot be simplified into a mere formula. Being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, the Father, and the Holy Spirit signifies a full-time, lifelong commitment to follow all that Jesus taught. This commitment encompasses not only the teachings of Peter, James, and John but also those of Paul.

Did Paul teach something different than Peter? Not at all. (Refer to Galatians 1:11-17)

 

[CadyandZoe]

I said.....There is in scripture water baptism and washings as a ritual cleansing only for Israel

what is a Christian baptism....the only water baptisms were directed to Israel

As I argued in my previous response to you, Peter is exporting the crowd to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, which indicates a lifetime commitment to learn and obey everything that Jesus taught, which includes everything the Apostles taught, including Paul.

 

[CadyandZoe]

You are not reading this correctly...lets look at it
[Mar 1:4 KJV] 4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

John preached the baptism of repentance......this describes or identifies his baptism...his baptism was for those who repented to be cleansed by confessing their sins (Mark 3:6)
for the remission of sins means the result of being baptized not the result of repentance

[Act 2:38 KJV] 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Look at Peter....he didnt say repent for the remission of sins....he said be baptized for remission of sins

As we learn from Acts 19, a teacher's "baptism" is his teaching. John was teaching the crowds to repent, which is what Jesus and the other Apostles taught, even Paul.

 

[CadyandZoe]

But you cant be saved now by just believing Jesus is Christ you have to believe also in his redemption

A person is not saved based on what they believe. What they are willing to believe is evidence of God's salvation work. Jesus himself said that salvation depends on his "knowing" a person. If he doesn't know me, I won't be saved.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Please show me verses where Peter and the twelve preached Paul's gospel

They all preached the same gospel: freedom from sin, punishment, and death.

 

[CadyandZoe]

they are different in that what they say is different.....what they say is the content of that gospel

We must allow people to say the same thing using different wording. And we must not reduce salvation statements into formulas.

 

[Doug]

We all believe that the Scripture is clear. The challenge is whether or not we understand what it says.

Christian discussion forums are a good place to check our work. And I respect you for taking the risk required to submit your ideas to the review of fellow believers.

I'm just saying that if you find more than one gospel in the New Testament, your understanding needs work. I would like to warn us from taking single verses out of context.

I respect your position but must say that we can use select verses as long as we have supporting verses at the ready

 

[CadyandZoe]

I respect your position but must say that we can use select verses as long as we have supporting verses at the ready

I agree. I have done that myself. The main point of my warning is our tendency to simplify complex concepts into formulas. A prime example of this is the phrase "Salvation is by grace alone," which originated during the Reformation. While this statement is true, it is also significantly incomplete. I suspect that once we understand the complete picture of salvation, we will not find more than one gospel in the New Testament.

 

[Doug]

Peter's message to Israel cannot be simplified into a mere formula. Being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, the Father, and the Holy Spirit signifies a full-time, lifelong commitment to follow all that Jesus taught. This commitment encompasses not only the teachings of Peter, James, and John but also those of Paul.

Did Paul teach something different than Peter? Not at all. (Refer to Galatians 1:11-17)

[Gal 1:12 KJV] 12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

So are you saying that Paul was taught and followed his teachings just as Peter?