The answer of hell and its origins

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The Learner

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44The king sent letters by messenger to Jerusalem and to the cities of Judah, ordering them to follow customs foreign to their land;
45to prohibit burnt offerings, sacrifices, and libations in the sanctuary, to profane the sabbaths and feast days,
46to desecrate the sanctuary and the sacred ministers,
47to build pagan altars and temples and shrines, to sacrifice swine and unclean animals,
48to leave their sons uncircumcised, and to defile themselves with every kind of impurity and abomination;
49so that they might forget the law and change all its ordinances.
50Whoever refused to act according to the command of the king was to be put to death.h



51In words such as these he wrote to his whole kingdom. He appointed inspectors over all the people, and he ordered the cities of Judah to offer sacrifices, each city in turn.
52Many of the people, those who abandoned the law, joined them and committed evil in the land.
53They drove Israel into hiding, wherever places of refuge could be found.



54On the fifteenth day of the month Kislev, in the year one hundred and forty-five,* the king erected the desolating abomination upon the altar of burnt offerings, and in the surrounding cities of Judah they built pagan altars.i
55They also burned incense at the doors of houses and in the streets.
56Any scrolls of the law* that they found they tore up and burned.
57Whoever was found with a scroll of the covenant, and whoever observed the law, was condemned to death by royal decree.
58So they used their power against Israel, against those who were caught, each month, in the cities.
59On the twenty-fifth day of each month they sacrificed on the pagan altar that was over the altar of burnt offerings.
60In keeping with the decree, they put to death women who had their children circumcised,
61and they hung their babies from their necks; their families also and those who had circumcised them were killed.
 

The Learner

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62But many in Israel were determined and resolved in their hearts not to eat anything unclean;
63they preferred to die rather than to be defiled with food or to profane the holy covenant; and they did die.
64And very great wrath came upon Israel.




* [1:1] Land of Kittim: Greece. The name referred originally to inhabitants of Kiti, capital of the isle of Cyprus, then to any Cypriots (Is 23:1; Jer 2:10), later to Greeks in general, and finally even to Romans. See note on Dn 11:30. Darius: Darius III, Codoman (336–331 B.C.).



* [1:7] Twelve years: 336–323 B.C. The division of the empire was not fully settled until 305 B.C.



* [1:9] Diadems: decorated bands of white cloth worn around the head, symbolizing kingship. The Ptolemies, based in Egypt, controlled Judea until 198 B.C., when they were replaced by the Seleucids, based in Syria.



* [1:10] The one hundred and thirty-seventh year: Antiochus IV seized the throne in September, 175 B.C. Dates are given in this book according to the beginning of the Seleucid era, which however was reckoned in two different ways. Antiochians considered this date to be October, 312 B.C. (Syrian calendar), while Babylonians and Jewish priests accepted April, 311 B.C. as the commencement of the era (Temple calendar). The author of 1 Maccabees dates political events by the Syrian calendar but religious events by the Temple calendar. Accordingly, the civil New Year occurred variously in September or October, the religious New Year in March or April.



* [1:14] Gymnasium: symbol and center of Greek athletic and intellectual life, it was the chief instrument of Hellenistic culture. Jewish youth were attracted by sports and encouraged to join youth clubs. They received training in military skills and in the duties of citizens. Many were won over to paganism, and some even sought surgical correction of their circumcision (since physical exercise was carried out in nudity).



* [1:17] Elephants: an important part of Seleucid armament (cf. 6:34–37).



* [1:18] Ptolemy VI Philometer, a nephew of Antiochus.



* [1:20] Defeated Egypt in the one hundred and forty-third year: 169 B.C. No mention is made in 1 Maccabees of the second expedition to Egypt a year later, described in 2 Mc 5:1, 11; Dn 11:25, 29 records both.



* [1:21] Entered the sanctuary: to pay his soldiers, Antiochus seized the sacred vessels and the money deposited at the Temple (see 2 Mc 3:10–11).



* [1:29] Mysian commander: in 2 Mc 5:24 he is identified as “Apollonius, commander of the Mysians” (mercenaries from Asia Minor). The Greek text of 1 Mc 1:29 (“chief collector of tribute”) reflects a misreading of the Hebrew original.



* [1:33] Citadel: literally, akra means fortress. This was a garrison for foreign troops and renegade Jews that was established near the Temple area and fell to Simon only in 141 B.C. (13:49–50).



* [1:54] Fifteenth day of the month Kislev, in the year one hundred and forty-five: December 6, 167 B.C. Desolating abomination: in the original Hebrew, a contemptuous pun on the title “Lord of heaven” given to the god to whom an image or perhaps an altar was erected upon the altar of burnt offerings in the Temple of Jerusalem; cf. Dn 9:27; 11:31.



* [1:56] Scrolls of the law: one or more of the first five books of the Old Testament, the traditional law of Israel.



a. [1:1–10] Dn 8:20–22; 11:3–4, 21.



b. [1:11–15] 2 Mc 4:12–17.



c. [1:16–19] 2 Mc 5:1–10; Dn 11:25–30.



d. [1:20–24] 2 Mc 5:11–21.



e. [1:29–40] 2 Mc 5:24–26.



f. [1:39–40] Am 8:10; Tb 2:6.



g. [1:41–64] 2 Mc 6:1–11.



h. [1:50] 1 Mc 2:29–38; 2 Mc 6:18–7:42.



i. [1:54] Dn 9:27; 11:31; Mk 13:14.
 

The Learner

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"
One of the most significant signs of the end of the world will be the so-called abomination of desolation. Jesus himself says this in Matthew 24:15. He says that Prophet Daniel predicted the abomination of desolation and he adds, "He that readeth, let him understand."

This means that some of us must read Prophet Daniel, and also books I and 2 of the Machabees at the end of the Old Testament because these books also speak of the abomination actually happening, for example in I Machabees 6, verse 7.

There we read that the conquering faithful Jewish army had re-taken Jerusalem, and they had "thrown down the abomination from the altar" in the temple. These words indicate the abomination was some kind of pagan statue that the pagans and the pagan-minded, unfaithful Jews had set up on the holy Temple altar.

It also suggests what other Bible evidence shows, that the abomination or evil sacrilegious thing is the abolition, the doing away with, of the daily, holy sacrifice on the Temple altar, and the substitution of a false-god statue with some false sacrifice or worship, on the holy altar." The Abomination of Desolation in Machabees by Fr. Stephen Somerville

The rest of this sermon pulls those historical sources I posted together.
 

The Learner

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For those who will raise the stupid argument that you are using Catholic sources--- all I have to say Primary Historical Sources are Vaild to use by Historians.
 

The Learner

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Oh, I am not going to keep up on this side track, skipping ahead as I speed read.
 

The Learner

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It’s not up to you to tell me what to post. I don’t know who is spoon feeding me because I have to work on Sundays and can’t attend Church. Everything I know is from personal study, not from The Watchtower. You have regurgitated their teachings so many times you have it memorized. You have proven that you can make the Bible say whatever you want with enough manipulation. You remind me of the January 6th Committee. I quote Got Questions because I happen to agree with them on many issues. They are not spoon feeding me, I don’t agree with everything on their site. Forum rules prevent me from posting what you sound like with your condescending attitude.
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The Learner

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Ongoing Date Implications
Watchtower incorrectly promoted teachings on the following dates that they no longer accept:

539 A.D.
1780
1798
1799
1829
1840
1844
1846
1872
1874
1878
1880
1881
1891
1906
1910
1914
1915
1917
1918
1920
1921
1925
1926
1928
1932
1935
1940s
1951
1975
2000
Despite being known for their failed predictions of Armageddon, Watchtower does not hold back from criticising other religions that do the same.

"RELIGIOUS LEADERS sometimes predict tragic worldwide events to warn mankind and gather followers. Doomsday prophet Harold Camping and his disciples widely advertised that the earth would be destroyed in 2011. Needless to say, the world is still here." Watchtower 2014 May 1 p.3
Watchtower history is based around the doomsday message that the end is about to come. Statements abound such as in the 1930's book The New World;

"The Scriptures give good reason to believe that it shall be shortly before Armageddon breaks."
Toward the end of the twentieth century, the Watchtower Society refrained from issuing specific dates for Armageddon, but still has not stopped implying dates and time frames.

Luke warned about those whose message is that the "due time has approached."

"He said: "Look out that YOU are not misled; for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, 'I am he,' and, 'The due time has approached.' Do not go after them." Luke 21:8
Moses warned against those that make predictions in the name of Jehovah that do not come true.

"And in case you should say in your heart: "How shall we know the word that Jehovah has not spoken?" When the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not occur or come true, that is the word that Jehovah did not speak..." Deuteronomy 18:20-22
The Watchtower says that the standard by which to judge a false messenger is whether their messages "come true."

"Jehovah is the Grand identifier of his true messengers. He identifies them by making the messages he delivers through them come true. Jehovah is also the Great Exposer of false messengers." Watchtower 1997 May 1 p.8
Ironic, considering the Watchtower specifically said the end would come in 1914 and then 1925. This section demonstrated over 20 "messages" promoted by the Watchtower for decades that turned out not to be "true." What does this prove about them as messengers and prophets ?


Read the rest of the article for yourself
 
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The Learner

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False Prophecies by WatchTower "Jehovah's Witnesses are the only true prophets of God." (Watchtower 4/1/72) "When a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not come about or come true, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him." (Deut. 18:22). 1889 "The battle of the great day of God Almighty, which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership is already commenced." (Time is at Hand, p.101) 1906 Russell (1st JW President) said: These truths I present as God's mouthpiece. I admit to being the 'faithful and wise servant' foretold in Matthew 24. (Watchtower 7/15/06, p.229, Watchtower 12/1/16.) 1913 "Some have a strong desire to worship God, others have a weak desire, and others have no desire at all. The difference is due to the shape of the brain." (Watchtower 3/15/13, p.84). 1917 "In the year 1918, WHEN GOD DESTROYS THE CHURCHES WHOLESALE AND THE CHURCH MEMBERS BY THE MILLIONS, it shall be that any escape shall come to the works of Russell…" "World War I will close about October 1, 1917." (Finished Mystery, p. 485, 268). 1918 "We may confidently expect that 1925 will make the return of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, then the condition of human perfection." (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, p. 89). 1929 "The Scriptural proof is that the second presence of Jesus began in 1874." (Prophecy, p.65). 1943 Franz (current President) said, "JEHOVAH IS THE EDITOR OF THE WATCHTOWER (Moyle vs. WT). Franz said he was a Hebrew and Greek scholar, but could not translate Gen. 2:4 before the judge. He also claimed he was offered a Cecil Rhodes Scholarship. The Rhodes Scholarship Trust's president stated, "I have checked our records and do not find Frederick Franz was elected to a Rhodes Scholarship." 1943 "Man cannot by airplane or rockets or other means get above the air envelope which is about our earthly globe and in which man breathes." (Truth Shall Make You Free, p. 285). 1966 "1975 (in early autumn) will be the end of the 6th 1,000-year day of man's existence. It would not be by mere chance or accident but would be according to the loving purpose of Jehovah God for the reign of Jesus Christ to run parallel with the seventh millennium of man's existence." (Everlasting Life in Freedom, p.30). 1966 "Six thousand years from man's creation will end in 1975, and the seventh period of a thousand years of human history will begin in the fall of 1975 C.E." (Life Everlasting in Freedom of the Sons of God, p. 29). 1968 "The battle of Armageddon will be all over by the autumn of 1975. It may involve only a difference of weeks or months, but not years." (Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975, Watchtower 8/15/68).
 
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The Learner

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Abstract
Within its history, the Watch Tower has often set dates for the coming of Christ's millennial reign. The ability of Jehovah's Witnesses to endure the failure of these interpretations of Biblical prophecy reveals the power of the Watch Tower to withstand what would seem to be fatal challenges to its system of belief. In what has become a classic study, the social psychologist Leon Festinger has argued that such disconfirmations of prophecy lead only to deepened conviction and increased proselytism to persuade others that the original belief was correct. Applying Festinger's hypothesis to the prophetic speculation of the Watch Tower, 1 argue that his model fails to recognize how complex organizations and systems of belief shape responses to disconfirmed prophecy. Indeed, the history of Jehovah's Witnesses demonstrates that organizational structure and ideology constitute crucial variables for any analysis of reaction to prophetic failure. It is the very power of the Watch Tower as a millenarian movement that allows not only the rationalization of disconfirmation but the retrospective denial of the prophecy itself.
 
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The Learner

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Abstract
Millennial movements are almost always focused on prophecies predicting future events. This article deals with the issue of prophetic failures and their ramifications. The social standing of the movement determines the response to such an eventuality. Factors such as degree of internal socialization, mutual synergy, swift response of the leadership, are some that determine the internal response to a failure. The degree of conviction is instrumental in the survival of the group, which otherwise could be so conformist so as to refute the prospects of a failure altogether. Specificity of the belief allows for unequivocal refutation. The degree of attrition often corroborates to that of the group's social exposure. Post-refute, the strategy is one of “rationalization” and “reaffirmation” to the end that the failure be projected as a victory.
 

The Learner

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Abstract
People (and not merely religious people) often have beliefs that are widely regarded as silly by the experts or by the general population. This leads us to ask why believers believe silly things if they are widely thought to be silly, and then why believers believe the specific things they do. I propose that silly beliefs function as in-group and out-group tribal markers. Such markers act as an honest costly signal; honest and costly because such beliefs are hard to fake. Then I offer a developmentalist account of belief formation, in which beliefs are seen to be the result of a process of acquiring beliefs as cheaply and effectively as possible, leading to a reluctance to abandon early core beliefs later in life. Then I consider whether beliefs even can form a unified worldview, and ask how conversion occurs within the developmental characterization I propose. Finally, I consider how this may play out in terms of crises of faith.

This is just a curious paper. not aimed at anyone or anything, just fell over it.
 

The Learner

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Abstract​

The aim of this qualitative interview study was to explore the specific expectations that N = 29 Jehovah’s Witnesses (JWs) had of end times and paradise using an emotion regulation perspective. Beyond the general eschatological doctrine of JWs, the participants were encouraged to report their individual beliefs and connected emotions. Thematic analysis identified forecasting of life in paradise in the form of a continuation of physical life but with an overall positive emotional atmosphere. Emotionally, paradise was often contrasted with the present time, as negative emotions and the downregulation of strong positive emotions dominate the current end time. As an emotion regulation strategy between current end times and future paradise, emotional forecasting, i.e., predicting which emotions would arise in the future to regulate present-day emotions, is used. The results are discussed in the frame of positive and negative psychological implications of JWs’ eschatological beliefs and emotional forecasting.
 

The Learner

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This is a fabrication, as Watchtower was dogmatic as to exactly what was going to occur in 1914. Expectations for 1914 were forcefully presented as fact, as shown in the following quotes.

 

The Learner

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Do you know what hyperbole is?
There is no reason for the literal heaven and earth to be destroyed.....God’s creation is perfect.
It is the wicked rulership on earth that will be done away with and replaced by a heavenly government.....with Jesus at the helm. (Daniel 2:44)

Again you are reading right over the plain truth. Who does Peter say is going to be judged? The planet and the universe? Look again....just like the days of Noah...it is "the destruction of the ungodly”.......and "just like the days of Noah" the planet survived but the wicked did not. Their judgment came from the heavens in more ways than one.

2 Peter 3:10 has been badly translated there.
The Mounce Interlinear render that verse...
"But the Day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a rushing noise, the elements · will melt in the intense heat, and the earth and the works in it will be exposed."

Strongs gives the definition of this word "heurískō" as.....
  • to see, learn, discover, understand
  • to be found i.e. to be seen, be present
  • to be discovered, recognised, detected, to show one's self out, of one's character or state as found out by others (men, God, or both)
"εὑρίσκω heurískō, hyoo-ris'-ko; a prolonged form of a primary εὕρω heúrō hyoo'-ro, which (together with another cognate form) εὑρέω heuréō hyoo-reh'-o is used for it in all the tenses except the present and imperfect; to find (literally or figuratively):—find, get, obtain, perceive, see."
How does "burned up" mean the same as "exposed" or "discovered"?

It sounds more like God will expose false religion for what it really is, along with all the other corruption that the devil has brought on humanity alienated from him. A lot is being exposed right now as we speak.....the whole corona virus debacle has now been shown by scientific and medical experts to be a despicable hoax that has changed the world forever, setting mankind up for the biggest economic downfall of all time. Food shortages are now the order of the day, and soaring food prices are hitting even the middle class who are suffering as much homelessness now as the poor.

Their forced vaccinations have cause more harm than the virus, and they never stopped anyone from contracting any of the resulting strains anyway. More vaccinated people died than unvaccinated people. They now know that masks were a waste of time.....hand washing would have been a better recommendation. Hand sanitizers only make the bugs stronger....like constant exposure to antibiotics force the bacteria and viruses to mutate to save themselves.
The scientists and medical experts were gagged and their characters assassinated in order to push a very wicked agenda. The truth is coming out....."exposed" for all to see, but those who swallow the propaganda will stick to their errors and never see what is right in front of their noses. None so blind....

Look back in the history of God's worshippers both Jewish and Christian.....and see that there was one truth and only one religion sanctioned by God in each era.....they all had to agree with no divisions, all taught the same truth, by the one body of teachers appointed by God to dispense his truth through them.....so how can you say that you worship the God of the Bible when you seem to think that God no longer required his worshippers to be in unity? (1 Cor 1:10) "Divisions" are proof that God is not among them.

There is biblical criteria that has to be met....only those who fulfill the criteria will pass the test. We are all either "sheep or goats"....Jesus knows which is which.....the ones "doing the will" of his Father. (Matt 7:21-23)

Matthew 24:38

Easy-to-Read Version

38 In those days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving their children to be married right up to the day Noah entered the boat.
 

The Learner

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In the chart, below, we will examine how some scholars have been used in defense of the NWT and whether they actually support the Watchtower translation as claimed. It is not my intent to be exhaustive; however I've tried to cover the scholars most often cited; I think you'll find that any omissions will be obscure scholars that are not generally recognized as authoritative in the scholarly community. If you know of a prominent scholar that I've missed, please let me know so that I may include him/her in a future revision of this article.

Index of Scholars

 

The Learner

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Dr. Bruce M. Metzger, professor of New Testament at Princeton University, calls the NWT "a frightful mistranslation," "Erroneous" and "pernicious" "reprehensible" "If the Jehovah's Witnesses take this translation seriously, they are polytheists." (Professor of New Testament Language and Literature)

Dr. William Barclay, a leading Greek scholar, said "it is abundantly clear that a sect which can translate the New Testament like that is intellectually dishonest."
British scholar H.H. Rowley stated, "From beginning to end this volume is a shining example of how the Bible should not be translated."

"Well, as a backdrop, I was disturbed because they (Watchtower) had misquoted me in support of their translation." (These words were excerpted from the tape, "Martin and Julius Mantey on The New World Translation", Mantey is quoted on pages 1158-1159 of the Kingdom interlinear Translation)

Dr. Julius Mantey , author of A Manual Grammar of the Greek New Testament, calls the NWT "a shocking mistranslation." "Obsolete and incorrect." "It is neither scholarly nor reasonable to translate John 1:1 'The Word was a god.'"
"I have never read any New Testament so badly translated as The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of The Greek Scriptures.... it is a distortion of the New Testament. The translators used what J.B. Rotherham had translated in 1893, in modern speech, and changed the readings in scores of passages to state what Jehovah's Witnesses believe and teach. That is a distortion not a translation." (Julius Mantey , Depth Exploration in The New Testament (N.Y.: Vantage Pres, 1980), pp.136-137)
 
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The Learner

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(Douglas Walsh v. The Right Honorable James Latham Clyde, M.P., P.C., etc., Scotland, 1954, (1958 ed.).p.88.)

The following is from the trial transcript: -
(Q): Insofar as translation of the Bible itself is undertaken, are you responsible for that?
(A): I have been authorized to examine a translation and determine its accuracy and recommend its acceptance in the form in which it is submitted.
Later, Franz was asked about his own involvement in the translating(Douglas Walsh v. The Right Honorable James Latham
Clyde, M.P., P.C., etc., Scotland, 1954, (1958 ed.).p.92)
(Q) : Were you yourself responsible for the translation of the Old Testament?
( A ) : Again I cannot answer that question...
Here, under oath, Franz refused to confirm or deny he was the translator of the Hebrew text. Why wouldn't he say that he did not translate the Old Testament? The court also wondered "why" and asked (ibid)
(Q): Why the secrecy?
(A): Because the committee of translation wanted it to remain anonymous and not seek any glory or honour at the making of a translation, and having any names attached thereto.