The answer of hell and its origins

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BARNEY BRIGHT

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yes, ty for the lecture lol

Barney, you are entitled to believe whatever you like, and i dont even judge you on this, until you start posting your beliefs as facts, ok? If you want to believe that the word “Jehovah” was used even before the advent of the letter j, more power to you, idc.

i will even go further and say that i expect no change whatsoever to come from this, since lawyers have been presenting facts as truth since forever, or at least since the Masoretes temporarily got control of the Jewish religion, which is a quite fascinating story that your reference is likely also ignorant of, and lawyers cannot hear anything else either, generally speaking. Have a good one
I wasn't talking about how the four Hebrew consonants YHWH being pronounced as Jehovah. I was talking about the fact that it was wrong for them to discontinue to pronounce the true God's name, so that today no one knows the accurate pronunciation of the four Hebrew consonants YHWH which represent the true God's name. Anyone that had a lame idea or superstitious fear back in the past that they shouldn't be pronouncing the divine name of God, and because of that lame reason or superstitious fear alter the divine name by replacing it with words like Adonai (Lord) or Theos (God) were wrong for doing that. They had no authority to take the true God's name out of scripture, that's the point. So I'll or we will pronounce the four Hebrew consonants YHWH as Jehovah and what others want to pronounce the four Hebrew consonants as is their choice. I knows there are those who believe that the four Hebrew consonants should be pronounced as Yaweh. And if they choose to.pronounce it as Yaweh that's ok. They're showing by pronouncing the four Hebrew consonants as Yaweh that the True Gods name should be pronounced or used.
 
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RLT63

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I wasn't talking about how the four Hebrew consonants YHWH being pronounced as Jehovah. I was talking about the fact that it was wrong for them to discontinue to pronounce the true God's name, so that today no one knows the accurate pronunciation of the four Hebrew consonants YHWH which represent the true God's name. Anyone that had a lame idea or superstitious fear back in the past that they shouldn't be pronouncing the divine name of God, and because of that lame reason or superstitious fear alter the divine name by replacing it with words like Adonai (Lord) or Theos (God) were wrong for doing that. They had no authority to take the true God's name out of scripture, that's the point. So I'll of we will pronounce the four Hebrew consonants YHWH as Jehovah and what others want to pronounce the four Hebrew consonants as is their choice. I knows there are those who believe that the four Hebrew consonants should be pronounced as Yaweh. And if they choose to.pronounce it as Green that's ok. They're showing by pronouncing the four Hebrew consonants as Yaweh that the True Gods name should be pronounced or used.
I wonder why Jesus always called him the Father
 
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Aunty Jane

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Again the Jews are great when they agree with you, apostates who missed their messiah when they don’t.
Good grief.....the Jews were not the best representative of their God as their history testifies, but they do know how to translate their own God-given language.

It was speaking the name that they a problem with, and it has been suggested that many were making frivolous oaths in Jehovah’s name at the time, bringing reproach on it, so instead of enforcing the law about “taking God’s name in vain”, (which means using it in a worthless way) the Jewish leaders simply prohibited the utterance of it......but reading the Tanakh, you still see the Tetragrammaton in the Hebrew text. Every time they came across the divine name in the text they would say “Adonai” (Lord) instead. “Hasham” meaning “the name” was also substituted.....what nonsense! Nowhere were the Jews told that God’s name was too sacred to be unuttered....they were told not to use it irreverently or frivolously.

Unfortunately the pronunciation of God’s name was lost over time and the various translations that followed in later times, the Jewish pattern of substituting a title became the norm. This just reinforced the loss because God’s name identified him as the unique personage that he was. He only has one name. (Psalm 83:18 KJV) Eliminating his name from their speech was a direct act of disobedience because they were told that his name was to be mentioned” in all generations to come. (Exodus 3:14-15 Jewish Tanakh)

The ancient Jews had no problem using the divine name reverently in their approach to God in prayer, and their copious use of his name in their writings. It appears some 7000 times in the Hebrew Scriptures, so that is a whole lot of substitution without command or excuse.

To cease to use God’s name because of being too lazy to enforce the law, the repercussions echo down to our day because the ambiguous title “Lord” (equivalent to “Sir” in English) is somehow transplanted onto another being entirely, and this one came to be viewed as “God” when he never once said he was. In Bible times, this title was given to anyone who commanded respect.....it was not another word for “God”.
Britain has a House of Lords....none of them are gods.

So here we are still trying to identify which “Lord” is which in the scriptures when there was no way to mix them up before the Jews decided to stop saying God’s name out loud.

If you go through the Christian scriptures, written long after the divine name was lost, we find Jesus and his apostles referring to God’s name....

John 17:25-26...Jesus prayed.....
O righteous Father, even though the world does not know you, I know you, and these know that you have sent me. I made known to them your name, and I will continue to make it known, that the love with which you have loved me may be in them, and I in them.” (ESV)

After the conversion of the first Gentile to Christianity Acts 15:14 says....
“Symʹe·on has related thoroughly how God for the first time turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name.”

Paul wrote in Acts 2:21.....”For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.” This is not what Christendom sees in her translations of the Bible....it simply says “For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”.....since Paul was quoting the Hebrew Scriptures, (Joel 2:32) the original says what the NWT says...you have to call on the name of the God that Jesus served....Yahweh (Jehovah) in order to be saved. We call on the God that Jesus came to teach us about...the one who “sent” his savior into the world...the one Jesus called “the only true God”. (John 17:3) We can come to the Father only through Jesus. (John 6:65)

I wonder why Jesus always called him the Father
Because he is his son.....he is also “Our Father”.....but he has a name....just one. Psalm 83:18 KJV tells us that he alone is the “Most High over all the earth”.....there is no one higher or equal to him.
 
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RLT63

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Good grief.....the Jews were not the best representative of their God as their history testifies, but they do know how to translate their own God-given language.

It was speaking the name that they a problem with, and it has been suggested that many were making frivolous oaths in Jehovah’s name at the time, bringing reproach on it, so instead of enforcing the law about “taking God’s name in vain”, (which means using it in a worthless way) the Jewish leaders simply prohibited the utterance of it......but reading the Tanakh, you still see the Tetragrammaton in the Hebrew text. Every time they came across the divine name in the text they would say “Adonai” (Lord) instead. “Hasham” meaning “the name” was also substituted.....what nonsense! Nowhere were the Jews told that God’s name was too sacred to be unuttered....they were told not to use it irreverently or frivolously.

Unfortunately the pronunciation of God’s name was lost over time and the various translations that followed in later times, the Jewish pattern of substituting a title became the norm. This just reinforced the loss because God’s name identified him as the unique personage that he was. He only has one name. (Psalm 83:18 KJV) Eliminating his name from their speech was a direct act of disobedience because they were told that his name was to be mentioned” in all generations to come. (Exodus 3:14-15 Jewish Tanakh)

The ancient Jews had no problem using the divine name reverently in their approach to God in prayer, and their copious use of his name in their writings. It appears some 7000 times in the Hebrew Scriptures, so that is a whole lot of substitution without command or excuse.

To cease to use God’s name because of being too lazy to enforce the law, the repercussions echo down to our day because the ambiguous title “Lord” (equivalent to “Sir” in English) is somehow transplanted onto another being entirely, and this one came to be viewed as “God” when he never once said he was. In Bible times, this title was given to anyone who commanded respect.....it was not another word for “God”.
Britain has a House of Lords....none of them are gods.

So here we are still trying to identify which “Lord” is which in the scriptures when there was no way to mix them up before the Jews decided to stop saying God’s name out loud.

If you go through the Christian scriptures, written long after the divine name was lost, we find Jesus and his apostles referring to God’s name....

John 17:25-26...Jesus prayed.....
O righteous Father, even though the world does not know you, I know you, and these know that you have sent me. I made known to them your name, and I will continue to make it known, that the love with which you have loved me may be in them, and I in them.” (ESV)

After the conversion of the first Gentile to Christianity Acts 15:14 says....
“Symʹe·on has related thoroughly how God for the first time turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name.”

Paul wrote in Acts 2:21.....”For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.” This is not what Christendom sees in her translations of the Bible....it simply says “For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”.....since Paul was quoting the Hebrew Scriptures, (Joel 2:32) the original says what the NWT says...you have to call on the name of the God that Jesus served....Yahweh (Jehovah) in order to be saved. We call on the God that Jesus came to teach us about...the one who “sent” his savior into the world...the one Jesus called “the only true God”. (John 17:3) We can come to the Father only through Jesus. (John 6:65)


Because he is his son.....he is also “Our Father”.....but he has a name....just one. Psalm 83:18 KJV tells us that he alone is the “Most High over all the earth”.....there is no one higher or equal to him.
One of your better posts. I don’t agree with everything but informative
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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I wonder why Jesus always called him the Father
Some very old fragments of the Septuagint Version that actually existed in Jesus’ day have survived down to our day, and it is noteworthy that the personal name of God appeared in them. The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology (Volume 2, page 512) says: “Recent textual discoveries cast doubt on the idea that the compilers of the LXX [Septuagint] translated the tetragrammaton YHWH by kyrios. The oldest LXX MSS (fragments) now available to us have the tetragrammaton written in Hebrew characters in the Greek text. This custom was retained by later Jewish translators of the Old Testament in the first centuries A.D.” Therefore, whether Jesus and his disciples read the Scriptures in Hebrew or Greek, they would come across the divine name, YHWH.

So, Professor George Howard, of the University of Georgia, U.S.A., made this comment: “When the Septuagint which the New Testament church used and quoted contained the Hebrew form of the divine name, the New Testament writers no doubt included the Tetragrammaton in their quotations.” (Biblical Archaeology Review, March 978, page 4) What authority would they have had to do otherwise?

God’s name remained in Greek translations of the “Old Testament” for a while longer. In the first half of the second century C.E., the Jewish proselyte Aquila made a new translation of the Hebrew Scriptures into Greek, and in this he represented God’s name by the Tetragrammaton in ancient Hebrew characters. In the third century, Origen wrote: “And in the most accurate manuscripts THE NAME occurs in Hebrew characters, yet not in today’s Hebrew [characters], but in the most ancient ones.”

Even in the fourth century, Jerome writes in his prologue to the books of Samuel and Kings: “And we find the name of God, the Tetragrammaton [יהוה], in certain Greek volumes even to this day expressed in ancient letters.”

The apostasy foretold by Jesus had taken shape, and the name, although appearing in manuscripts, was used less and less. (Matthew 13:24-30; Acts 20:29, 30) Eventually, many readers did not even recognize what it was and Jerome reports that in his time “certain ignorant ones, because of the similarity of the characters, when they would find [the Tetragrammaton] in Greek books, were accustomed to read ΠΙΠΙ.”

In later copies of the Septuagint, God’s name was removed and words like “God” (Theos) and “Lord” (Kyrios) were substituted. We know that this happened because we have early fragments of the Septuagint where God’s name was included and later copies of those same parts of the Septuagint where God’s name has been removed.

The same thing occurred in the “New Testament,” or Christian Greek Scriptures. Professor George Howard goes on to say: “When the Hebrew form for the divine name was eliminated in favor of Greek substitutes in the Septuagint, it was eliminated also from the New Testament quotations of the Septuagint. Before long the divine name was lost to the Gentile church except insofar as it was reflected in the contracted surrogates or remembered by scholars.”

So, while Jews refused to pronounce God’s name, because some lame reason such as a superstitious fear, the apostate Christian church managed to remove it completely from Greek language manuscripts of both parts of the Bible, as well as from other language versions.

All this information proves that while Jesus was on earth he pronounced the named the four Hebrew consonants YHWH represented. We know this because in Jesus day at Luke 4:17-19 Jesus was handed the scroll of Isaiah where the four Hebrew consonants YHWH are there in two places, Jesus would have pronounced the the name the four Hebrew consonants represented.
 

RLT63

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Some very old fragments of the Septuagint Version that actually existed in Jesus’ day have survived down to our day, and it is noteworthy that the personal name of God appeared in them. The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology (Volume 2, page 512) says: “Recent textual discoveries cast doubt on the idea that the compilers of the LXX [Septuagint] translated the tetragrammaton YHWH by kyrios. The oldest LXX MSS (fragments) now available to us have the tetragrammaton written in Hebrew characters in the Greek text. This custom was retained by later Jewish translators of the Old Testament in the first centuries A.D.” Therefore, whether Jesus and his disciples read the Scriptures in Hebrew or Greek, they would come across the divine name, YHWH.

So, Professor George Howard, of the University of Georgia, U.S.A., made this comment: “When the Septuagint which the New Testament church used and quoted contained the Hebrew form of the divine name, the New Testament writers no doubt included the Tetragrammaton in their quotations.” (Biblical Archaeology Review, March 978, page 4) What authority would they have had to do otherwise?

God’s name remained in Greek translations of the “Old Testament” for a while longer. In the first half of the second century C.E., the Jewish proselyte Aquila made a new translation of the Hebrew Scriptures into Greek, and in this he represented God’s name by the Tetragrammaton in ancient Hebrew characters. In the third century, Origen wrote: “And in the most accurate manuscripts THE NAME occurs in Hebrew characters, yet not in today’s Hebrew [characters], but in the most ancient ones.”

Even in the fourth century, Jerome writes in his prologue to the books of Samuel and Kings: “And we find the name of God, the Tetragrammaton [יהוה], in certain Greek volumes even to this day expressed in ancient letters.”

The apostasy foretold by Jesus had taken shape, and the name, although appearing in manuscripts, was used less and less. (Matthew 13:24-30; Acts 20:29, 30) Eventually, many readers did not even recognize what it was and Jerome reports that in his time “certain ignorant ones, because of the similarity of the characters, when they would find [the Tetragrammaton] in Greek books, were accustomed to read ΠΙΠΙ.”

In later copies of the Septuagint, God’s name was removed and words like “God” (Theos) and “Lord” (Kyrios) were substituted. We know that this happened because we have early fragments of the Septuagint where God’s name was included and later copies of those same parts of the Septuagint where God’s name has been removed.

The same thing occurred in the “New Testament,” or Christian Greek Scriptures. Professor George Howard goes on to say: “When the Hebrew form for the divine name was eliminated in favor of Greek substitutes in the Septuagint, it was eliminated also from the New Testament quotations of the Septuagint. Before long the divine name was lost to the Gentile church except insofar as it was reflected in the contracted surrogates or remembered by scholars.”

So, while Jews refused to pronounce God’s name, because some lame reason such as a superstitious fear, the apostate Christian church managed to remove it completely from Greek language manuscripts of both parts of the Bible, as well as from other language versions.

All this information proves that while Jesus was on earth he pronounced the named the four Hebrew consonants YHWH represented. We know this because in Jesus day at Luke 4:17-19 Jesus was handed the scroll of Isaiah where the four Hebrew consonants YHWH are there in two places, Jesus would have pronounced the the name the four Hebrew consonants represented.
Interesting
 
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bbyrd009

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I was talking about the fact that it was wrong for them to discontinue to pronounce the true God's name, so that today no one knows the accurate pronunciation of the four Hebrew consonants YHWH which represent the true God's name
yes, and im talking about the fact that you imagine that you are talking about facts, when those are opinions, Barney, not facts, and surely not truth. Pronounce AEOU, if you will, since YHWH is a transliteration rather than a translation anyway.

Ps YHWH were used as their vowels, not consonants. Now ima stop talking now, since you are not listening anyway, and im not interested in providing another little snippet for you to take off on some new copypaste sermonette ok. Have a nice evening
 
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bbyrd009

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Some very old fragments of the Septuagint Version that actually existed in Jesus’ day have survived down to our day, and it is noteworthy that the personal name of God appeared in them. The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology (Volume 2, page 512) says: “Recent textual discoveries cast doubt on the idea that the compilers of the LXX [Septuagint] translated the tetragrammaton YHWH by kyrios. The oldest LXX MSS (fragments) now available to us have the tetragrammaton written in Hebrew characters in the Greek text. This custom was retained by later Jewish translators of the Old Testament in the first centuries A.D.” Therefore, whether Jesus and his disciples read the Scriptures in Hebrew or Greek, they would come across the divine name, YHWH.

So, Professor George Howard, of the University of Georgia, U.S.A., made this comment: “When the Septuagint which the New Testament church used and quoted contained the Hebrew form of the divine name, the New Testament writers no doubt included the Tetragrammaton in their quotations.” (Biblical Archaeology Review, March 978, page 4) What authority would they have had to do otherwise?

God’s name remained in Greek translations of the “Old Testament” for a while longer. In the first half of the second century C.E., the Jewish proselyte Aquila made a new translation of the Hebrew Scriptures into Greek, and in this he represented God’s name by the Tetragrammaton in ancient Hebrew characters. In the third century, Origen wrote: “And in the most accurate manuscripts THE NAME occurs in Hebrew characters, yet not in today’s Hebrew [characters], but in the most ancient ones.”

Even in the fourth century, Jerome writes in his prologue to the books of Samuel and Kings: “And we find the name of God, the Tetragrammaton [יהוה], in certain Greek volumes even to this day expressed in ancient letters.”

The apostasy foretold by Jesus had taken shape, and the name, although appearing in manuscripts, was used less and less. (Matthew 13:24-30; Acts 20:29, 30) Eventually, many readers did not even recognize what it was and Jerome reports that in his time “certain ignorant ones, because of the similarity of the characters, when they would find [the Tetragrammaton] in Greek books, were accustomed to read ΠΙΠΙ.”

In later copies of the Septuagint, God’s name was removed and words like “God” (Theos) and “Lord” (Kyrios) were substituted. We know that this happened because we have early fragments of the Septuagint where God’s name was included and later copies of those same parts of the Septuagint where God’s name has been removed.

The same thing occurred in the “New Testament,” or Christian Greek Scriptures. Professor George Howard goes on to say: “When the Hebrew form for the divine name was eliminated in favor of Greek substitutes in the Septuagint, it was eliminated also from the New Testament quotations of the Septuagint. Before long the divine name was lost to the Gentile church except insofar as it was reflected in the contracted surrogates or remembered by scholars.”

So, while Jews refused to pronounce God’s name, because some lame reason such as a superstitious fear, the apostate Christian church managed to remove it completely from Greek language manuscripts of both parts of the Bible, as well as from other language versions.

All this information proves that while Jesus was on earth he pronounced the named the four Hebrew consonants YHWH represented. We know this because in Jesus day at Luke 4:17-19 Jesus was handed the scroll of Isaiah where the four Hebrew consonants YHWH are there in two places, Jesus would have pronounced the the name the four Hebrew consonants represented.
this is all diversionary JW copypaste, as “the Jews” did not refuse to pronounce the tetragrammaton; it was made to be unpronounceable, and it was only later that the dregs, the Masoretes, the pious leftovers, came up with “Jehovah,” at least as near as i can tell, and it is them you follow, both in pronunciation and practice.

but as no one can have an actual conversation with you, nor aunty, im done here, and ill leave you the last word
Interesting
its crap
 
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bbyrd009

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this GHoward guy is apparently a fave with the JW cult, and this article explains some of their fringe beliefs, including the one about the OT being corrupted, which is highly debatable at best

good luck trying to get one of our resident JWs to answer a simple question, as you may have already noticed
the subject will change so quick your neck will hurt lol

an example from the link, this is just point one, among several others:
“1. The Jehovah’s Witnesses do not actually cite more than one scholar here. While they cite two sources, The Anchor Bible Dictionary and Dr. George Howard, what they don’t mention is that George Howard wrote the section of the Anchor Bible Dictionary that they are citing. So, in fact, they simply provide two quotes from the same man”

so, basically a continuation of the same behavior we see here, and/or you may have experienced personally, if you entered into a conversation with them in good faith

Barney, it is my opinion that you are deceptive when you have no reason to be, as you are entitled to believe whatever you like, but see, in your mind all of your (spoon-fed) opinions are Absolute Truth, right?
And i mean no offense, but Aunty Jane x2 for that.

why not just say what you believe, and label it as such? the truth of that is not pretty, ok
furthermore, your JW overlords would not look kindly upon your presence here, would they?

so while i dont want you to take this wrong, as i am a hypocrite too, you are both JW hypocrites, ok
 
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bbyrd009

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All this information proves that while Jesus was on earth he pronounced the named the four Hebrew consonants YHWH represented
lol
bc you need to prove stuff, huh Barney
just not going to even consider that YHWH is unpronounceable for a very good reason, are you
 
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Aunty Jane

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Interesting
Research always is.....relying on any church to teach you the truth is futile unless they can show you from the scriptures that what they believe is true, and backed up by the whole Bible, not just things read into a few cherry picked verses.

Going back to "the wheat and the weeds", we see also that Jesus spoke of the "sheep and the goats". Then there is "the broad road" and "the cramped and narrow one".....God only see two groups of people....ones who have his approval and those who do not. Only one group is promised life, so we have to know which road we are traveling.... :IDK:
 

bbyrd009

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since it took me about ten seconds to punch some holes in your web of deceit, Barney, maybe you could punch some holes in this. AJ, give it your best shot, im ok with your tag-team deal too
 

Aunty Jane

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why not just say what you believe, and label it as such? the truth of that is not pretty, ok
At least we know what we believe and why we believe it.....do you? You always appear so lost and disgruntled because you "dunno" much about anything.....except that you are so sure that everyone is wrong......yet you "dunno" what's right.
I have trouble figuring you out....
furthermore, your JW overlords would not look kindly upon your presence here, would they?
Who told you this? My elders know that I post here. They just told me to be careful....because this form of 'witnessing' is not for the faint-hearted of any denomination. But an unchallenged faith is not worth having. Informed choice is the only one that will give us life.
The animosity you show makes me think that your aversion to JW's might be personal.

Who said that they are "overlords". They are "shepherds" and they are appointed by Jesus to care for the flock (Heb 13:7).....at least we have just one flock, but with many shepherds. What do you have, apart from the sour grapes you seem to eat on a regular basis....?
You appear to detest anyone who has a strong faith, because you seem to have no faith at all. Since when was "I dunno" a religion?

so while i dont want you to take this wrong, as i am a hypocrite too, you are both JW hypocrites, ok
You say that with such conviction, and yet you lack conviction about everything else.....the truth is out there.....you just cant seem to find it. I wonder why?

you are slinkier than a snake Barney lol
Nice....hmmx1:


since it took me about ten seconds to punch some holes in your web of deceit, Barney, maybe you could punch some holes in this. AJ, give it your best shot, im ok with your tag-team deal too
Tried to find a home page to identify the source of this.....but all I could find was a long list of sources gleaned from all over the place.....
Who wrote this stuff?.....and do you care if its true or not......or will you just randomly take what someone says on the internet as gospel....for something to do...? :hmhehm
 

bbyrd009

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Who wrote this stuff?.....and do you care if its true or not......or will you just randomly take what someone says on the internet as gospel....for something to do...?
but you wont bother trying to refute any of it, right
if you ever get to where you can give a straight answer just holler ok
At least we know what we believe and why we believe it
no offense, but i recall our last pretend conversation, and you are just doing it again
i am pretty much done with gnostics, who claim to know stuff
ty for the refresher tho, now i recall why i passed on the JW call
have a nice evening
 
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Aunty Jane

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but you wont bother trying to refute any of it, right
I could spend hours refuting it, but why waste my time with someone who is not interested in the truth, and who seems content to wander about in the darkness....being snarky with anyone who doesn't say what suits your mangled lack of beliefs.
You appear lost and cranky about it....don't take it out on us.....OK?
if you ever get to where you can give a straight answer just holler ok
I don't think you would know a straight answer if it jumped up and bit you.
But the straight answer is, that the letters of the Tetragrammaton...YHWH are not vowels....they are consonants....did you ever do English at school? Someone is having a lend of you....
Its the missing vowels that make the pronunciation difficult. :no reply:
no offense, but i recall our last pretend conversation, and you are just doing it again
i am pretty much done with gnostics, who claim to know stuff
It seems as if you are jealous of anyone who "claims to know stuff"....because you know nothing, and your posts reflect that you want to, but you can't ever arrive at what you could accept as truth. Would you even know the truth if you heard it?
have a nice evening
Thank you I intend to....
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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yes, and im talking about the fact that you imagine that you are talking about facts, when those are opinions, Barney, not facts, and surely not truth. Pronounce AEOU, if you will, since YHWH is a transliteration rather than a translation anyway.

Ps YHWH were used as their vowels, not consonants. Now ima stop talking now, since you are not listening anyway, and im not interested in providing another little snippet for you to take off on some new copypaste sermonette ok. Have a nice evening.
If you don't want to believe that Some very old fragments of the Septuagint Version that existed in Jesus’ day have been found that retained Gods name, that's your choice. I'll continue to believe these facts.
 

bbyrd009

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I could spend hours refuting it, but why waste my time with someone who is not interested in the truth, and who seems content to wander about in the darkness
right? thats me alright, not interested in the truth, and hopelessly wandering lol
see aunty, its the constant diverting and a certain kind of…unavailability? overlaid with the standard superiority thing, that admittedly i am no foreigner to myself

but i am not lying when i say i hope it works out for you. But i would sure be careful about all that stuff you think you know, ok
 
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bbyrd009

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If you don't want to believe that Some very old fragments of the Septuagint Version that existed in Jesus’ day have been found that retained Gods name, that's your choice. I'll continue to believe these facts.
i was raised with the understanding that there were hundreds if not thousands of faithful copies, Barney, so while i am a conspiracy nut at heart, that “fact” is pretty new to me, and while i will seek some more i am hard put to believe that there is any secret, lost Name of YHWH that used to be in the OT and is now lost.

and again id say that it is primarily that you deem this “fact” when you cannot know that gives me pause.
do you know everything, then?
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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right? thats me alright, not interested in the truth, and hopelessly wandering lol
see aunty, its the constant diverting and a certain kind of…unavailability? overlaid with the standard superiority thing, that admittedly i am no foreigner to myself

but i am not lying when i say i hope it works out for you. But i would sure be careful about all that stuff you think you know, ok
You text to someone saying, "I would sure be careful about all that stuff you think you know," well that applies to you as much as it does to everyone else. We're all imperfect human beings none of us infallible, so any of us can be wrong even though we all think that all the stuff we think we know is true. However, we all have to make a decision on what we believe the truth is. What I know is that you haven't convinced me that anything I have said isn't true.
It's a fact that there are framents of older copies of Septuagint Bible that does have the tetragrammaton [יהוה](YHWH) in it. These four letters [יהוה] (YHWH) represent the personal name of God and in the Hebrew scriptures (old testament) it's in there 6828 times. The ancient Hebrews knew how to pronounce their language which was Hebrew, and when they came upon the tetragrammaton [יהוה] (YHWH) they knew how to pronounce it. But for some reason they decided to stop pronouncing the tetragrammaton [יהוה] (YHWH) and because of that the accurate pronunciation of the tetragrammaton [יהוה] (YHWH) has been lost.
There are those who believe that the vocalisation of the tetragrammaton [יהוה](YHWH) must originally been YeHuaH or YaHuaH.
 
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bbyrd009

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However, we all have to make a decision on what we believe the truth is
hmm
do we? why?
What I know is that you haven't convinced me that anything I have said isn't true.
oh, sorry, i already meant to say that imo you have the conviction of a flat earther, and i was already pretty sure that you could not entertain a single thing i have to say. Which reading that it sounds mean, sorry, but i mean to say that i suspect this is for someone else. Iow i am not trying to change your mind, as i dont think that will be possible until the lack of any "flex" in your dogma catches up to you, as it inevitably seems to do with most JWs
It's a fact that there are framents of older copies of Septuagint Bible that does have the tetragrammaton [יהוה](YHWH) in it. These four letters [יהוה] (YHWH) represent the personal name of God and in the Hebrew scriptures (old testament) it's in there 6828 times. The ancient Hebrews knew how to pronounce their language which was Hebrew, and when they came upon the tetragrammaton [יהוה] (YHWH) they knew how to pronounce it. But for some reason they decided to stop pronouncing the tetragrammaton [יהוה] (YHWH) and because of that the accurate pronunciation of the tetragrammaton [יהוה] (YHWH) has been lost.
yes, your sticking point there seems to be the pronunciation of the Hebrew vowel forms YHWH, which i am convinced were used precisely bc they cannot be pronounced, making a great allegory for the concept "God," imo. Now i might be wrong, but i doubt that there is any secret, lost pronunciation of it, and really it strikes me as a red herring. Had you chosen any other group besides the Masoretes to emulate, those who were imo so deceived as to believe that the Bible needed correction, and that the Divine Name needed to be nailed down precisely, i might be more receptive, but as it stands i have unfortunately been on the witnessing end of too much JW aftermath, ministering to them, to maybe have an unbiased pov?

the forgiveness was just lacking, seemed to me, which i notice seems to go along with ppl who insist upon facts and proof. Life is not black and white, as idealistic as i (still) am, and while i dont want to infer that i am any better than them now, i was a Bible lawyer myself for...well, way too long, and for me that is in the past now i guess
 
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