The 144,000 before God at the end.

[David in NJ]

Even better. Can you fit Isaiah Chapter 25 into the first day of creation?

Or can you fit Isaiah Chapter 25 into Noah's flood?

Can you fit Isaiah chapter 25 into the Garden of Eden?

I don't think you can. So I guess that means there was no 1st day of creation or Noah flood or Garden of Eden according to your logic?????????????

i accept your challenge - stay tuned for the reply

 

[David in NJ]

Even better. Can you fit Isaiah Chapter 25 into the first day of creation?

Or can you fit Isaiah Chapter 25 into Noah's flood?

Can you fit Isaiah chapter 25 into the Garden of Eden?

I don't think you can. So I guess that means there was no 1st day of creation or Noah flood or Garden of Eden according to your logic?????????????

Your question #1 - Can i fit Isaiah ch25 into the first day of creation?
Answer - YES = Isaiah 25:1
O Lord, You are my God.
I will exalt You,
I will praise Your name,
For You have done wonderful things;
Your counsels of old are faithfulness and truth.


Your question #2 - "Can you fit Isaiah Chapter 25 into Noah's flood?"
Answer - YES = Isaiah 25:1-2 and v4
Your counsels of old are faithfulness and truth.
For You have made a city a ruin,
A fortified city a ruin,
A palace of foreigners to be a city no more;
It will never be rebuilt.
For You have been a strength to the poor,
A strength to the needy in his distress,
A refuge from the storm,

Your question #3 - "Can you fit Isaiah chapter 25 into the Garden of Eden?"
Answer - ABSOLUTELY = Isaiah 25:7-8
And He will destroy on this mountain
The surface of the covering cast over all people,
And the veil that is spread over all nations.
8He will swallow up death forever,
And the Lord God will wipe away tears from all faces;
The rebuke of His people
He will take away from all the earth;
For the Lord has spoken.

It was in the Garden of Eden where the satanic covering was cast over all people.

It was in the Garden of Eden where 'death' FIRST occurred.

The LORD walked this earth in the Garden of Eden when sin entered into the world wherby ALL sinned and ALL died.
So ALSO will the LORD walk this earth as His Feet will Stand on the Mount of Olives where HE suffered great droplets of His Blood in Agony of the Brutal Suffering He was about to Endure so that the SIN what took place in Eden would be PAID for in FULL for ALL Eternity.
The LORD will Return on this Earth to lock up that "Serpent of Old = the Devil/Satan" = Revelation 20:1-3

 

[marks]

Brother marks, Love covers a multitude of sins

This isn't about lacking love, our discussion lacks fruitfulness. If you were to respond to my content, that would be different, but since you don't, and simply continually restate your assertions, we go nowhere.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Because i love you @marks = you do not have to respond but take this to your heart in prayer to the LORD

Isaiah ch25 = SEE if you can find pre-trib rapture in it = in TRUTH and not adding a single word of your own or taking away

If you want to discuss this, I invite you to review my posts, and summarize for me my rapture timing view. At least then I'll know you actually read my posts, and understand what I've said.

Otherwise . . . we go nowhere.

Much love!

 

[David in NJ]

If you want to discuss this, I invite you to review my posts, and summarize for me my rapture timing view. At least then I'll know you actually read my posts, and understand what I've said.

Otherwise . . . we go nowhere.

Much love!

Absolutely and THANK YOU for this response for just last night i was praying with you in mind that i may SEE as you are seeing so that i can respond as you are asking and pointing to in the Scriptures.

i have to go to work now = Peace to you my Brother

 

[The Light]

Your question #1 - Can i fit Isaiah ch25 into the first day of creation?
Answer - YES = Isaiah 25:1
O Lord, You are my God.
I will exalt You,
I will praise Your name,
For You have done wonderful things;
Your counsels of old are faithfulness and truth.


Your question #2 - "Can you fit Isaiah Chapter 25 into Noah's flood?"
Answer - YES = Isaiah 25:1-2 and v4
Your counsels of old are faithfulness and truth.
For You have made a city a ruin,
A fortified city a ruin,
A palace of foreigners to be a city no more;
It will never be rebuilt.
For You have been a strength to the poor,
A strength to the needy in his distress,
A refuge from the storm,

Your question #3 - "Can you fit Isaiah chapter 25 into the Garden of Eden?"
Answer - ABSOLUTELY = Isaiah 25:7-8
And He will destroy on this mountain
The surface of the covering cast over all people,
And the veil that is spread over all nations.
8He will swallow up death forever,
And the Lord God will wipe away tears from all faces;
The rebuke of His people
He will take away from all the earth;
For the Lord has spoken.

It was in the Garden of Eden where the satanic covering was cast over all people.

It was in the Garden of Eden where 'death' FIRST occurred.

The LORD walked this earth in the Garden of Eden when sin entered into the world wherby ALL sinned and ALL died.
So ALSO will the LORD walk this earth as His Feet will Stand on the Mount of Olives where HE suffered great droplets of His Blood in Agony of the Brutal Suffering He was about to Endure so that the SIN what took place in Eden would be PAID for in FULL for ALL Eternity.
The LORD will Return on this Earth to lock up that "Serpent of Old = the Devil/Satan" = Revelation 20:1-3

I really like number 2. Good job.

I knew that you could not prove there was not a first day of creation, Noah's flood or a Garden of Eden. I also know that you cannot prove that He won't come in an hour that you think not.

 

[David in NJ]

I really like number 2. Good job.

I knew that you could not prove there was not a first day of creation, Noah's flood or a Garden of Eden. I also know that you cannot prove that He won't come in an hour that you think not.

You give me some great laughter my Brother - ty

 

[David in NJ]

You give me some great laughter my Brother - ty

I really like number 2. Good job.

I knew that you could not prove there was not a first day of creation, Noah's flood or a Garden of Eden. I also know that you cannot prove that He won't come in an hour that you think not.

FYI - When the Scripture says: "counsel of old" it is directly speaking of GENESIS.

Isaiah 25:1-2 and v4, the prophet is referencing Genesis/Truth(counsel to Adam & Eve then to others/Noah) and the Flood.

BUT, this is HIGH LEVEL knowledge that you need the Holy Spirit to empower you to SEE = lamps FILLED.

GOOD NEWS - the HIGH LEVEL Knowledge comes from the LORD for us = James 1:1-11

Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above,
and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning.
Of His own will He brought us forth by the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures.

 

[David in NJ]

I really like number 2. Good job.

I knew that you could not prove there was not a first day of creation, Noah's flood or a Garden of Eden. I also know that you cannot prove that He won't come in an hour that you think not.

Your statement: "I knew that you could not prove there was not a first day of creation, Noah's flood or a Garden of Eden."

Could not/not; is a double negative which translates as: "I knew you could prove....."

 

[amigo de christo]

Because i love you @marks = you do not have to respond but take this to your heart in prayer to the LORD

Isaiah ch25 = SEE if you can find pre-trib rapture in it = in TRUTH and not adding a single word of your own or taking away

From the LORD JESUS CHRIST to all the apostels they warned us all , Prepare for tribulation
I dont see this at all in many mindsets of today . rather they prepare the people for a fast escape .
My challenge is we read the bible for ourselves and not through the lens of any denominational teaching .
IT becomes real clear the coming of CHRIST , the rapture IS the same event .
ITS A ONE TIME EVENT . the world that persecuted us GOES UNDER the wrath of GOD , the beast and all that followed it
UNDER the wrath of GOD . ITS also clear the lambs suffer great wrath from the dragon , the beast , and etc
Paul sums it up quite well in the first chapter of the second letter written TO the thessaloniains .
ITS MEN that invented TWO COMINGS , its men that invented a rapture and THEN a second coming .
NO the rapture occurs AT THE SECOND COMING WHEN JESUS COMETH TO DELIVER THE WRATH OF GOD
against the ungodly . Quite clear . JESUS even mentions that real clear in mathew . AFTER that TRIBULATION ,
THEN they will SEE the SON of man coming , THEN THE TRIBES OF THE EARTH DO MOURN , CAUSE THEY GO UNDER HIS WRATH .
ITS SO clear my friend . SO clear .

 

[No Pre-TB]

No, that's you putting words in my mouth. I said no such thing.

No, you stated,

Well, here's what happens at the end of the 6th seal.

Revelation 6
17 For the great day of his wrath is come;

You made a statement and linked it to the saying, the day of his wrath has come. Now, you might not have meant it that way, but I did not put words in your mouth, you did it alone. My reply to that was:

By your logic, the great day of God's wrath comes when the 6th seal is opened.

Please understand that how you put it, its how its taken.

The point is Jesus comes at the 6th seal as MARKED by the signs of the sun, moon and stars.

I see you keep posting this and I'm amazed why. I'll post it for clarity.

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven:

The only thing immediately after, is the 6th seal being opened immediately after the tribulation of those days. But you make the son of man coming immediate with it. What was asked? In Matthew 24:3, it was asked, what shall be the sign of thy coming?

The foreshadowing sign, before his sign comes is the 6th seal. It's not when he comes. After the 6th seal, then will the sign of Christsppear afterwards. His coming isnt a sign. A sign appears before it and after the 6th seal.

The word for sign in this text:
4592 /sēmeíon ("sign") then emphasizes the end-purpose which exalts the one giving it. Accordingly, it is used dozens of times in the NT for what authenticates the Lord and His eternal purpose, especially by doing what mere man can not replicate of take credit for.

That is not his epiphaneia/manifestation! 2 Tim 4:8 says we are awarded the stephanos at his epiphaneia, not the sign!

So wrath has to be a woe? Is that what you are saying?

No, I'm merely pointing out a fact. It's not even a woe. It's not considered such by biblical standards.

30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Yep, 1 harvest. Thanks for showing it. The tares and the wheat at the end of the age. That's it.

In Revelation 14 we see a different harvest,

Who is "we"? I thought I was talking to one person.

Then you posted Rev 14. Same harvest at the end of the world. The tares are burned, the wheat is saved. Do you not understand this?

 

[No Pre-TB]

No problem.

Matthew 24
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

What does being spiritually ready have to do with pre-tb? You replied to:
If pre-trib rapture is actual Truth from Above = you should be able to show forth this 'truth' whereby ALL can SEE.

What you quoted has nothing to do with pre-tb; zero zilch nada. Were all supposed to remain awake and ready.

 

[No Pre-TB]

Here are 2..I can give more.

2 Timothy 4:1 - At his appearing in his Kingdom

Isaiah 25:6-8 Notice in this mountain, the same mountain of Daniel 7:14

When will he swallow up death in victory? In this mountain! What does it refer to? 1 Cor 15:52-55

@rebuilder 454 and @The Light
The point is, here were 2 examples that both have a resurrection happening in the Kingdom. Is there a third to match these 2? Yes.

The third proof that backs the 2 posted also has a judgment and a reward in the kingdom. Rev 11:18, after the kingdoms of this world becomes Christ,

And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name,

edit:

Luke 18:30
Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting.

Not 7 years beforehand, but in the world to come.

According to Luke 19:15, when does Christ return to reward us?

And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.

 

[The Light]

What does being spiritually ready have to do with pre-tb? You replied to:
What you quoted has nothing to do with pre-tb; zero zilch nada. Were all supposed to remain awake and ready.

Sorry, didn't realize that you would need an explanation.

When the final 7 years begins when a 7 year covenant is confirmed we will know exactly when He is coming as it will be after the wrath of God 7 years down the road.

How can He come when we think not if He does not come more than once?

If pre-trib rapture is actual Truth from Above = you should be able to show forth this 'truth' whereby ALL can SEE.

Whereby, all can see? That is certainly not possible as the foolish virgins cannot see as they lack lamp oil. If you understood the scriptures, you would understand He comes for the Church before the seals are opened. How can one see without lamp oil?

 

[David in NJ]

If you want to discuss this, I invite you to review my posts, and summarize for me my rapture timing view. At least then I'll know you actually read my posts, and understand what I've said.

Otherwise . . . we go nowhere.

Much lov

Sorry, didn't realize that you would need an explanation.

When the final 7 years begins when a 7 year covenant is confirmed we will know exactly when He is coming as it will be after the wrath of God 7 years down the road.

How can He come when we think not if He does not come more than once?


Whereby, all can see? That is certainly not possible as the foolish virgins cannot see as they lack lamp oil. If you understood the scriptures, you would understand He comes for the Church before the seals are opened. How can one see without lamp oil?

The(low-oil)Light says: "Whereby, all can see? That is certainly not possible as the foolish virgins cannot see as they lack lamp oil. If you understood the scriptures, you would understand He comes for the Church before the seals are opened. How can one see without lamp oil?"

God is the God of Truth and He never speaks confusion to His People = 1 Corinthians 14:33

Post the Scripture where it says: "Before these seals open i will rapture my Church/Bride/Elect"

Post-Trib can be found Straight from the Mouth of God = Matthew ch24, 1 & 2 Thess, James, Jude ,1 John and Revelation

Post-Trib can be found Straight from the Mouth of God = Genesis and OT Prophets

The theory of pre-trib rapture twists and turns like the serpent in the Garden, which is why you are unable to find and post
a STRAIGHT Declaration from the Mouth of God saying it.

Chew on that and let it sink in.................

 

[No Pre-TB]

If you understood the scriptures, you would understand He comes for the Church before the seals are opened.

I understand that many in the church have studied their whole lives and not one will ever say they know it all. I surely don't. But what I do know is that he comes for the Church after the seals, not before. That is because scripture tell's us that, not because it's something I believe that I try to make true.

 

[The Light]

But what I do know is that he comes for the Church after the seals, not before. That is because scripture tell's us that, not because it's something I believe that I try to make true.

Please post any verse or verses of scripture that shows that He comes for the Church after the seals.

Also, it's strange that I posted verses that prove you wrong as regards to their being one harvest. A wise man of God would seek out the truth. You roll like nothing happened. Yeah, and don't start with the excuses of why you have denied the facts.

 

[ewq1938]

Rev 14 is unscriptural?

No, claiming there are multiple comings of Christ is unscriptural. There is one second coming and no more.

 

[ewq1938]

I am waiting for anyone to post a verse pointing to a postrib rapture.

No one has ever posted a verse pointing to a pretrib rapture because there are none but there are for posttrib:

The rapture is after the Great Tribulation has ended, after Christ's second coming begins, after the resurrection of the dead in Christ.

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.(second coming reference)
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord (second coming reference) shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven (second coming reference) with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (the resurrection of the dead in Christ)
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (the rapture)

The resurrection only happens at the second coming and the second coming can only happen after the trib has ended, and since the verses tell us the rapture happens AFTER the resurrection and second coming means these verses decisively prove the rapture is post-trib not pre-trib.

It's that simple.

Christ also spoke of the rapture but used the wording of saints being gathered together, and no surprise, placed it after the end of the Great Tribulation.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation (great tribulation has ended) of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven(second coming reference): and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming (second coming reference) in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect (*another way to speak of the Rapture) from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

*(also see 2nd Thessalonians 2:1 for the same language regarding the Rapture ie: a gathering)

Timing of the gathering/rapturing is exactly the same in these two passages. In both we have saved Christians being moved from one place to another and in both that happens after the tribulation has ended and when the second coming has commenced.


A rapture before the second coming and before the resurrection is scripturally impossible and the second coming cannot happen until the tribulation has ended, Mat 24:29-30.

 

[ewq1938]

You have the dead in Christ raised AFTER the gathering in rev 14.

No, I don't. The resurrection happens before the gathering does and I have proven that. The resurrection is completed therefore before the gathering in Rev 14 occurs.