The 144,000 before God at the end.

[Keraz]

What you are saying must mean you have a different Bible than I've ever read. I use the KJV mostly.

Ezekiel 40 thru 48 is future Millennium reign time by Christ and His elect on earth, and involves a Millennium sanctuary with the details of that future sanctuary given specifically. And that will... involve the restoration of the BELIEVING 'seed' of the children of Israel back to the promised lands, to INCLUDE believing Gentiles with them. Then the last verse of Ezekiel 48 points to God's future Kingdom of the new heavens and a new earth.

That explains your confusion. Why don't you take advantage of modern translations?

Ezekiel 40 to 48 simply cannot be after Jesus has Returned. Read it all again, carefully. Their Leader has children - Ezekiel 46:16

 

[TribulationSigns]

That explains your confusion. Why don't you take advantage of modern translations?

This one should be self-evident. Just open your eyes and look around. Did you see the church improving with any of these new versions? At all? I saw a steady decline of understanding in the church. Did you see the church gaining a much better knowledge of the scriptures when these new versions were introduced? Truthfully? Because I sure didn't. So you tell me, what really was the REAL profit (besides in the pockets of those producing them) of all the new versions in bringing better understanding or knowledge? Sure, people claim to better understand, but the proof is in the pudding. And the pudding is perceptively worse than it was before the new versions. So say what they will, they didn't receive a better understanding, a clearer grasp of the word, nor a better knowledge from these new versions. Christians have become more unfaithful, not more attuned to God. All they received was the spirit to say they were enlightened for appearance's sake. In "truth", better understanding doesn't come from new versions. It comes from the Spirit.

Proverbs 18:15

• "The heart of the prudent getteth knowledge; and the ear of the wise seeketh knowledge."

Better knowledge of the scriptures is NOT the product of newer translations or modern versions, it comes from the fruit of the Spirit. Seeking a new translation is actually contrary to seeking wisdom and knowledge (In my humble opinion). And yet, you will have Christians swear by these modern translations as if the modern versions have literally changed their lives and loosed them from the burdensome chain of the KJV. ...it's all a farce. There's nothing new or additional to be gleaned in any of these modern versions.

In conclusion, my view is that some traditions are Biblical and worth keeping. Marriage Covenants/Ceremonies, Sola Scriptura, Resurrection Sunday, Thanksgiving, ...and the KJV of the Bible.

Ezekiel 40 to 48 simply cannot be after Jesus has Returned. Read it all again, carefully. Their Leader has children - Ezekiel 46:16

The Prince is the king and leader of Israel and his spiritual children are Elects from the Old and New Testament ocngregaiton which the temple represents where Christ offered sacrifice himself for His people. It was indeed Jesus Christ, who can enter by the same east gate of the inner court that God entered in Ezekiel 43, the true prince of the restoration is identified with Jesus in a special way.

The point is that the prince of the restoration identifies himself with his people in leading them into God's presence. Moreover, the prince offers sacrifices (vv. 4–7). The king in ancient Israel occasionally offered sacrifices (1 Chron. 16:1–3), but the priests alone offered the regular offerings. Ezekiel's prince has an even greater role in the community's regular worship.

Jesus fulfills Ezekiel's vision of the prince. He is identified with both Yahweh and His people, being truly God and truly man (John 1:1–18). And He offered the only sacrifice needed for us to come regularly before God—the once-for-all sacrifice of Himself (Heb. 9:11–28).
So the temple of Ezkeil 40-48 is or will NOT a physical Jewish temple, but symbolically the New Testament congregation of Israel, the church.

 

[covenantee]

Your point, that you keep going on like a kid in kindergarten. You can sit there in that kindergarten lecture if that is your obsession.

I understand the difference between "racist" and "not racist"; no lecture necessary.

Let's do something useful, such as discuss Scripture.

What does "not of thy seed" in Genesis 17:12 mean?

 

[Timtofly]

I understand the difference between "racist" and "not racist"; no lecture necessary.

Let's do something useful, such as discuss Scripture.

What does "not of thy seed" in Genesis 17:12 mean?

I am not talking about Abraham. The thread is talking about real individuals alive on earth at the Second Coming, the 6th Seal, after the church has been removed to Paradise, the 5th Seal.

You keep having a one sided conversation with your self every time you reply to my post.

 

[covenantee]

I am not talking about Abraham. The thread is talking about real individuals alive on earth at the Second Coming, the 6th Seal, after the church has been removed to Paradise, the 5th Seal.

You keep having a one sided conversation with your self every time you reply to my post.

Do you think Abraham is irrelevant to the 144,000?

 

[Timtofly]

Do you think Abraham is irrelevant to the 144,000?

I think your point is irrelevant to the thread.

 

[covenantee]

I think your point is irrelevant to the thread.

I think you're unwilling to answer.

This thread is entitled "The 144,000 before God at the end." My question is about the 144,000 and Abraham. He's relevant.

My question is asking for your point.

Don't be afraid.

 

[Timtofly]

I think you're unwilling to answer.

This thread is entitled "The 144,000 before God at the end." My question is about the 144,000 and Abraham. He's relevant.

My question is asking for your point.

Don't be afraid.

I gave my point from the beginning, and continuously, that these 144k are literal individuals alive on the earth at the time of the Second Coming, and do not represent the church of all humanity from Enoch until today.

So I covered several points. The 144k are not symbolic, but actual humans. The church has been gathered by God, since Enoch left the earth. The church does not need the 144k to represent the entire spectrum of redeemed throughout history.

Abraham has physically been enjoying Paradise in a permanent incorruptible physical body since Resurrection Sunday. He is not symbolically represented by today's 144k actual humans, as he can represent his own physical presence in Paradise quite spectacularly.

 

[covenantee]

I gave my point from the beginning, and continuously, that these 144k are literal individuals alive on the earth at the time of the Second Coming, and do not represent the church of all humanity from Enoch until today.

So I covered several points. The 144k are not symbolic, but actual humans. The church has been gathered by God, since Enoch left the earth. The church does not need the 144k to represent the entire spectrum of redeemed throughout history.

Abraham has physically been enjoying Paradise in a permanent incorruptible physical body since Resurrection Sunday. He is not symbolically represented by today's 144k actual humans, as he can represent his own physical presence in Paradise quite spectacularly.

Genesis 17
12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

God directed Abraham to include both his faithful obedient descendants (born in the house) and faithful obedient non-descendants (not of thy seed) in the nascent nation of the children of Israel.

The 144,000 also includes both.

 

[Davy]

That explains your confusion. Why don't you take advantage of modern translations?

I would NEVER... take your advice to rely upon 'modern' Bible translations, and that is obviously what YOUR problem is being caused by, with your getting the timelines of Scripture out of order.

And I wonder who you really think you are fooling here, because ANYONE that simply reads the Ezekiel 47 Chapter knows that is speaking of the future Millennial temple that will manifest on this earth after Christ's future return, and manifesting along with that future 1,000 years temple will be the return of God's River of the Waters of Life upon the earth, and the Tree of Life on either side of that River.

So someone who claims they 'know' what those Ezekiel 40 thru 48 Chapters teach, but then 'deny' all that, reveals they have come here to tell LIES against God's written Word!

Ezek 47:7-12
7 Now when I had returned, behold, at the bank of the river were very many trees on the one side and on the other.

8 Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed.

9 And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh.

10 And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it from En-gedi even unto En-eglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many.

11 But the miry places thereof and the marishes thereof shall not be healed; they shall be given to salt.

12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.
KJV

NOW... I remember why I had you on my IGNORE LIST! Welcome back to it.

 

[Hobie]

The 'hardening of the Jews' is entirely their own doing. God has given them plenty of time and opportunity to accept Jesus as Messiah. They refuse and God will do as is Prophesied; destroy them and only a remnant will survive. Isaiah 22:14. Romans 9:27

Now you are getting closer to the truth..

 

[Davy]

Now you are getting closer to the truth..

Well no, Keraz is not correct about his idea of the hardening of the Jews being their own fault.

Apostle Paul in Romans 11 warned those in Christ against believing that kind of idea about his brethren the Jews, and Paul used the idea of 'conceit' for those who do keep such a false idea...

Rom 11:25-29
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Further up in Romans 11:7-11 Paul showed that GOD Himself is Who placed that "blindness" upon the majority of the Jews. Above Paul shows God is going to remove it in the future, when that "fulness of the Gentiles be come in."


26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is My covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Is GOD able to take away their sins and save them? Those like Keraz that says they are going to perish because of rejecting Christ during this world, are those equal to GOD? No, Keraz is NOT GOD. Nor does he have any authority to claim who specifically is going to perish in the future "lake of fire"! Keraz is Biblically ignorant, going directly against what Apostle Paul has taught right here in Romans 11.

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
KJV