Spiritual gifts: Unconfusing them part 2

[marksman]

And if healing were possible as a spiritual gift, why are hospitals filled with the sick

If you have to ask questions like that you are out of touch with reality.

 

[marksman]

The only so-called gift that is prevalent today is tongues,

No it is not.

 

[marksman]

The fact is, no one truly has any gift of the Spirit today

The fact is you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[marksman]

So, believe what you like.

Yes it is a habit of mine to believe the truth.

 

[marksman]

The fact is, no one truly has any gift of the Spirit today,

The fact is you don't want to accept the facts.

 

[marksman]

Tongues were earthly tongues,

And I have a book that sets out people all over the world up to this present day speaking in a language they have not learned. No Apostles needed.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

the laying on of the apostle's hands.

Not always. You've put God and the Spirit in a small box of your own making.

Acts of the Apostles 10
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45 And [o]those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.

Putting God in a box, and making formulas are all manmade reasonings. This is why Jesus rarely did a healing the same way twice.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

When that which is perfect is referring to the perfect man meaning the body of Christ. In Corinth there was division as well as many other problems that adversely affected the body of Christ there, which was compared to the body of a man as the scriptures described in 1 Cor 12:12, et al, with the various gifts that the people had equating to different parts of the body. Also note, the Greek says "when should come the perfect" in 1 Cor 13:10. And yes, it's correct to say we no longer have need of the individual gifts since we do have the bible to guide us which is the complete word of God, so if it's complete, why is additional prophesy needed? And who is performing miracles today, healing the lame, etc? And if healing were possible as a spiritual gift, why are hospitals filled with the sick? Everyone should be healed by the gift of healing that should be possessed by many, and readily available throughout the Christian community. The only so-called gift that is prevalent today is tongues, which was considered an inferior gift, as well as the manner in which tongues are spoken isn't even done scripturally. Tongues were earthly tongues, not a bunch of babbling that no one understands. It's all nonsense. The fact is, no one truly has any gift of the Spirit today, and the gifts were made manifest by the laying on of the apostle's hands, and they're all dead. So, believe what you like.

Just because you don't have any of the gifts of the Spirit, nor the Spirit, Himself, doesn't mean that I don't, or that @marksman doesn't.

I remember laughing out loud when I was reading a book against Pentecostals and the writer said, "If I don't have any of the gifts of the Spirit, then they don't exist!"

 

[1stCenturyLady]

When that which is perfect is referring to the perfect man meaning the body of Christ. In Corinth there was division as well as many other problems that adversely affected the body of Christ there, which was compared to the body of a man as the scriptures described in 1 Cor 12:12, et al, with the various gifts that the people had equating to different parts of the body. Also note, the Greek says "when should come the perfect" in 1 Cor 13:10. And yes, it's correct to say we no longer have need of the individual gifts since we do have the bible to guide us which is the complete word of God, so if it's complete, why is additional prophesy needed? And who is performing miracles today, healing the lame, etc? And if healing were possible as a spiritual gift, why are hospitals filled with the sick? Everyone should be healed by the gift of healing that should be possessed by many, and readily available throughout the Christian community. The only so-called gift that is prevalent today is tongues, which was considered an inferior gift, as well as the manner in which tongues are spoken isn't even done scripturally. Tongues were earthly tongues, not a bunch of babbling that no one understands. It's all nonsense. The fact is, no one truly has any gift of the Spirit today, and the gifts were made manifest by the laying on of the apostle's hands, and they're all dead. So, believe what you like.

tongues is not understood by any man, EXCEPT by the supernatural gift of interpretation of tongues.. Only God understands the tongues spoken. Once you understand this rule, then you can understand what actually happened on the Day of Pentecost, but not until then.

1 Corinthians 14:2.
2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.

 

[DJT_47]

tongues is not understood by any man, EXCEPT by the supernatural gift of interpretation of tongues.. Only God understands the tongues spoken. Once you understand this rule, then you can understand what actually happened on the Day of Pentecost, but not until then.

1 Corinthians 14:2.
2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.

Once again, you don't know what you're talking about. 1.Tongues WAS a sign to unbelievers not believers unlike what is going on today, the nonsense you witness in Pentecostal groups
2. Yes, you're speaking to God unless there is an interpreter because you don't know what you're saying without one
3. The tongues were earthly, known tongues as recorded in Acts 2 on the day of Pentecost
4. You're to remain silent unless there is someone to interpret, once again, unlike what goes on in Pentecostal groups today.

Read the scriptures, all of them, and not pick out one that you misinterpret and misapply.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Once again, you don't know what you're talking about. 1.Tongues WAS a sign to unbelievers not believers unlike what is going on today, the nonsense you witness in Pentecostal groups
2. Yes, you're speaking to God unless there is an interpreter because you don't know what you're saying without one
3. The tongues were earthly, known tongues as recorded in Acts 2 on the day of Pentecost
4. You're to remain silent unless there is someone to interpret, once again, unlike what goes on in Pentecostal groups today.

Read the scriptures, all of them, and not pick out one that you misinterpret and misapply.

How do you interpret 1 Corinthians 14:22 AND 23. Why would an unbeliever think you are crazy if you speak in tongues?

 

[DJT_47]

How do you interpret 1 Corinthians 14:22 AND 23. Why would an unbeliever think you are crazy if you speak in tongues?

Keep reading thru verse 28

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Keep reading thru verse 28

I asked you a question based on your knowledge that tongues was a sign to the unbeliever. How so? In what way? You didn't say.

 

[DJT_47]

I asked you a question based on your knowledge that tongues was a sign to the unbeliever. How so? In what way? You didn't say.

It's what the scriptures say.

I asked you a question based on your knowledge that tongues was a sign to the unbeliever. How so? In what way? You didn't say.

1 Cor 14:22

22Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

 

[marksman]

Just because you don't have any of the gifts of the Spirit, nor the Spirit, Himself, doesn't mean that I don't, or that @marksman doesn't.

I remember laughing out loud when I was reading a book against Pentecostals and the writer said, "If I don't have any of the gifts of the Spirit, then they don't exist!"

A typical response from a cessationist.

 

[marksman]

The fact is, no one truly has any gift of the Spirit today,

The fact isn't no one truly hasn't any gift of the Spirit today.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

It's what the scriptures say.

1 Cor 14:22

22Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

Describe what it means. There is more than one way to interpret it. With or without verse 23. Some believe that tongues are understood by unbelievers. That's dumb because it is obvious they fail to use 23 as context.

Seeing as you mentioned the Day of Pentecost, I bet that's how you interpret it - the unbelievers understood the tongues. But, then why does 23 say they will think you are crazy. See. It's a dumb interpretation.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

@DJT_47

Respond to #77. Let's see how much you actually know.

Stop sidestepping the question. Just admit you don't know the answer. Quoting the text instead of interpreting it as requested is lying

 

[St. Joseph]

A continuation of my previous post entitled "Spiritual gifts: Unconfusing them"

There is obvious confusion and lack of understanding in what is meant by the scripture "and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost (Spirit)" as per Acts 2:38, versus the various miraculous spiritual gifts listed in 1 Cor 12:8-10.

Note that the "gift of the Holy Ghost" as cited in Acts 2:38, the word "gift" is singular, not plural. What this means within the context of that scripture is, all those baptized into Christ pursuant to that scripture, receive the GIFT of the Holy Ghost/Spirit itself, the actual indwelling of the Spirit, and NOT one of the miraculous spiritual gifts enabled by the Spirit, those listed in 1 Cor 12:8-10.

The miraculous gifts of the Spirit were imparted by the laying on of the apostle's hands as aforementioned in the first part of this study, as confirmed by specific passages within Acts 5, 6, 8, and 19, 2 Tim, as cited therein.

The gifts were sign gifts. Paul ans apostles didnt have the epistles to carry around as we do today. Those gifts were proff to apostles and early church that the Holy Spirit wzs working. Those gifts died out with the apostles.

 

[St. Joseph]

Nothing went wrong St. Ste.Ven, as I've stated and restated. The scriptures you cited are validation that to receive the manifestation of the Spirit, the miraculous gifts, those listed in 1 Cor 12:8-10, required the laying on of the apostle's hands. The Samarians were baptized believers no different than the Jews on the day of Pentecost, and both received the gift of the Spirit, the Spirit itself, the indwelling of it, as we who are baptized into Christ do today pursuant to Acts2:38; but NOT any of the miraculous manifestations of the Spirit, hence, the need for the Samarians to have Peter's and John's hands laid on them according to the record, subsequent to their (Peter and John) prayer that they MIGHT receive the gifts or manifestations of the Spirit. Acts 2 and 10 were heavenly anomalies, not the norm as most chooseto believe, needed in order to start the church. Let the scriptures speak and let go of preconceived notions that you may be clinging to. The miraculous gifts don't exist today: no apostles to pass them along and no futher need for them.

Exactly.