Signs

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear All,

I woke up this morning thinking about signs. It came to me, through revelation, that whenever God shows up there are signs present. It is written,

“It came even to pass, as the trumpeters and singers were as one, to make one sound to be heard in praising and thanking the Lord; and when they lifted up their voice with the trumpets and cymbals and instruments of musick, and praised the Lord, saying, For he is good; for his mercy endureth for ever: that then the house was filled with a cloud, even the house of the Lord; So that the priests could not stand to minister by reason of the cloud: for the glory of the Lord had filled the house of God.”

2 Chronicles 5:13,14

Perhaps you have heard the saying “signs of life.” When someone appears dead people check for a pulse and look for other indications that the person may still be living. In fact, when people lack signs of life they are pronounced dead.

Some people in Christianity today despise people who look for signs of life as those who are somehow weak and not able to live by faith. To some being able to live without signs is considered a higher form of true Christianity. They do not need to speak in tongues nor believe in a rapture. They do not need emotional experiences. In fact the less signs they have the more they believe they are walking strong in God.

While I do agree that we must walk with God even in the absence of “signs” I believe it is preferable to walk with God with signs. I believe we should embrace instead of eschew manifestations of God’s presence because it is when God is with us in a demonstrative way that our very nature is renewed and changed for the better. It is written,

“Then a cloud covered the tent of the congregation, and the glory of the Lord filled the tabernacle. And Moses was not able to enter into the tent of the congregation, because the cloud abode thereon, and the glory of the Lord filled the tabernacle. And when the cloud was taken up from over the tabernacle, the children of Israel went onward in all their journeys:”

Exodus 40:43-36

The children of Israel lived by following the presence of God and it was through signs that they were able to know where God was. It is not weakness to follow the pillar of cloud by day but rather expedience. To be where God is meant shelter, food, and protection and is the only way they could survive in the desert.

Just as a body with no signs of life is dead so to churches with no signs of the Spirit are dead. It is just that some churches have been deceased for so long they have made it into a virtue instead of a tragedy. Instead of mourning their lack of life they are proud of it and look down upon others who seek such signs.

The truth is that we are all mixed up about a great many things in Christianity. In our hearts we want to serve God but we just don’t know how to properly go about it. This is why we desperately need to live by revelation for only in that way can our Father teach us what we really need to know. We need clarity more than conformity. Only through obtaining His perspective can we possibly change our perspective.

We have entered into a time of strong delusion. The world is turning towards the spirit of antichrist in preparation for his revealing. As Christians it is ever more important that we become willing and able to live by every world that proceeds our of the mouth of our Father on a daily basis, trusting Him more than everything that is going on around us. We need to seek His presence and signs are what indicate where He is.

In conclusion, signs are indicators that God is present and we should welcome them into our lives and into our churches. Jesus said that He came to bring us life and life more abundantly therefore when He is present there will be signs of life. Let no one intimidate us into thinking that we should not want to see and experience such signs for to be with God is the goal we all hope for and share.

 

[afaithfulone4u]

Mark 16:15-18
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18.They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
KJV
1 Sam 10:6-7
6 And the Spirit of the LORD will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man.
7 And let it be, when these signs are come unto thee, that thou do as occasion serve thee; for God is with thee.
KJV

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear Faithful,

Good scriptures!

Blessings,

Justin

 

[biggandyy]

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Hi Big D,

Are you not for signs of the Spirit?

Blessings,

Justin

 

[biggandyy]

Not through "personal" revelation.

You may not mean the crass and even vulgar manifestation of "personal" revelation (such as Benny Hinn and their ilk) and if not, then I would be interested in the revelation process that you have shorthanded as personal revelation.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear B,

What I am talking about is total communion with our Father. A level of communion through personal revelation that existed in the garden of Eden before they fall. This type of revelation is person because it is a two way communication between each believer and their heavenly Father. It is living by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God and not by our own intellects. It is the type of communion that true prophets of God enjoyed.

Right now, the main problem is, that we live by sight rather than by faith. When we are confronted with a situation we set about figuring it out by what we understand of the word of God, what we understand of the circumstances, and how we feel at the time. Sometimes we pray about the problem and ask God's advice but usually we only take it if it generally fits in with how we see things. What I am talking about is operating at a level where we simply ask God what He wants us to do or say and then simply do it no matter what we think in the natural. This is what I call living by revelation.

Blessings,

Justin

 

[Rex]

Dear B,

What I am talking about is total communion with our Father. A level of communion through personal revelation that existed in the garden of Eden before they fall. This type of revelation is person because it is a two way communication between each believer and their heavenly Father. It is living by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God and not by our own intellects. It is the type of communion that true prophets of God enjoyed.

Right now, the main problem is, that we live by sight rather than by faith. When we are confronted with a situation we set about figuring it out by what we understand of the word of God, what we understand of the circumstances, and how we feel at the time. Sometimes we pray about the problem and ask God's advice but usually we only take it if it generally fits in with how we see things. What I am talking about is operating at a level where we simply ask God what He wants us to do or say and then simply do it no matter what we think in the natural. This is what I call living by revelation.

Blessings,

Justin

Make up your mind Justin is it faith or signs or do you simply adulate back and forth at your personal convenience?
A mixed bag of feel good aside of the seeking the truth in the word.

I find it utterly amazing how many people here that claim to be christian and speak against the sound truth found in the scriptures.
If the HS doesn't reveal to you truth found in the bible, I find it not very likely the HS is doing the leading.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear R,

No one I know has disowned the Bible. I personally haven't. However, my point is that we need to allow God to lift us out of our doctrinal boxes so that we can see His truth from His perspective. Obviously, you feel quite comfortable where you are and with what you believe and so feel no need to grow beyond where you presently are at. For myself though, I see that where God is at and where are at are two vastly different places. Personally, it has only been through revelation and signs that God has been able to get me unstuck from where I was. People never seem to "get it" about Paul and his Damascus road experience. It took a personal revelation of Jesus Christ to change that Pharisee's mind and I believe that most of us need something similar to get on track with God.

Blessings,

Justin

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

Don't seek a sign; Seek the LORD! Whilst he may be found.​

 

[domenic]

Dear R,

No one I know has disowned the Bible. I personally haven't. However, my point is that we need to allow God to lift us out of our doctrinal boxes so that we can see His truth from His perspective. Obviously, you feel quite comfortable where you are and with what you believe and so feel no need to grow beyond where you presently are at. For myself though, I see that where God is at and where are at are two vastly different places. Personally, it has only been through revelation and signs that God has been able to get me unstuck from where I was. People never seem to "get it" about Paul and his Damascus road experience. It took a personal revelation of Jesus Christ to change that Pharisee's mind and I believe that most of us need something similar to get on track with God.

Blessings,

Justin

Justin.
You're taking a step toward a true relationship letting God lead you. You have a great love for God, and it can be felt. I am sure God will lead you away from mans dogma. The truth is in the Bible. Ask God to make it all clear to you, he will. Others will turn their back to you, because what you come to understand will expose the false doctrines they believe.
We posted this subject some on a different thread. Religions that have one, or more false doctrines, a servant of God must step away from. In time I pray you will leave man made religions, and become a servant like those of old.
Go to God, he will let your thinking become clear. You may never have a 100% understanding, but 10% is far ahead of zero. God is seeking a relationship…not someone who can quote the Bible, and not get it.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear Domenic,

Well said. May God richly bless you,

Justin

 

[Levi]

Make up your mind Justin is it faith or signs or do you simply adulate back and forth at your personal convenience?
A mixed bag of feel good aside of the seeking the truth in the word.

I find it utterly amazing how many people here that claim to be christian and speak against the sound truth found in the scriptures.
If the HS doesn't reveal to you truth found in the bible, I find it not very likely the HS is doing the leading.

When a person has faith, signs will follow - at least that's what the Bible says.

It is the same with faith and works, they go hand in hand.

Faith provides us with the mind of Christ, in this way we can see and do as Christ!

Justin.
You're taking a step toward a true relationship letting God lead you. You have a great love for God, and it can be felt. I am sure God will lead you away from mans dogma. The truth is in the Bible. Ask God to make it all clear to you, he will. Others will turn their back to you, because what you come to understand will expose the false doctrines they believe.
We posted this subject some on a different thread. Religions that have one, or more false doctrines, a servant of God must step away from. In time I pray you will leave man made religions, and become a servant like those of old.
Go to God, he will let your thinking become clear. You may never have a 100% understanding, but 10% is far ahead of zero. God is seeking a relationship…not someone who can quote the Bible, and not get it.

I agree with you! It's difficult enough to stay straight with God without having religion thrown in. :)

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear R,

I wish I could speak something to you that could open your eyes to the things of the Spirit. I think you really have a desire to serve God but for some reason are having a difficult time getting close to Him. Much of the things you say would not be nessesary if you understood Him better through experiencing Him. I am not trying to down you at all but rather I am trying to encourage you to lay down the "word" for a bit and just concentrate of His Spirit. The closer you move towards our Father in the Spirit the clearer things start to become.

Blessings,

Justin

 

[HiddenManna]

1Co 13:1


If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am become sounding brass, or a clanging cymbal.
1Co 13:2

And if I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
1Co 13:3

And if I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and if I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profiteth me nothing.

I think this is the first "sign" I would seek to have for myself.

 

[pompadour]

I have felt the mighty rushing wind of the holy Spirit and the heard the voice of the HS, they are just as real as anything you could name. and I have gone through times that I had to live by faith.

I don't say this to boast. Just to testify. " God is no respecter of person, what HE has done for others HE will do for you"
How many times a day do you pray ? How much time do you spend reading the Bible ? Is it enough ?

I read a story, That God sends out ten Angels with baskets every day to collect all the requests form his children. when they return HE sends out one Angel to gather all the thank you notes. If you want to get GOD 'S attention send Him thank you notes you don't have much computation.

Pomp.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear P,

Well said,

Blessings,

Justin

 

[Niki]

Dear B,

What I am talking about is total communion with our Father. A level of communion through personal revelation that existed in the garden of Eden before they fall. This type of revelation is person because it is a two way communication between each believer and their heavenly Father. It is living by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God and not by our own intellects. It is the type of communion that true prophets of God enjoyed.

Right now, the main problem is, that we live by sight rather than by faith. When we are confronted with a situation we set about figuring it out by what we understand of the word of God, what we understand of the circumstances, and how we feel at the time. Sometimes we pray about the problem and ask God's advice but usually we only take it if it generally fits in with how we see things. What I am talking about is operating at a level where we simply ask God what He wants us to do or say and then simply do it no matter what we think in the natural. This is what I call living by revelation.

Blessings,

Justin

Um...I see this thread has gone from May into June, so maybe it's not too late to discuss it abit. I'll just call it like I see it.

You keep saying we....I have a problem with that. When someone says we we we what do they really mean? I start to think (sorry if I don't 'feel' it) that the reader
is drawn into something on a personal level that the actual writer may be having some struggle with.

You appear to speaking for absolutely everyone and I am sure that cannot be your intention here. You don't strike me as someone with ill will but rather someone who
believes things could be better.

So, what about this:

What I am talking about is total communion with our Father. A level of communion through personal revelation that existed in the garden of Eden before they fall. This type of revelation is person because it is a two way communication between each believer and their heavenly Father. It is living by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God and not by our own intellects. It is the type of communion that true prophets of God enjoyed.

Do you know anyone who has total communion with God because I certainly don't. The only person who may have actually had total communion with God was Enoch it seems,
Gen 5:24 Enoch walked faithfully with God; then he was no more, because God took him away. Mind you, some believe he was just misplaced which sounds silly, but
just to be fair.

​I have a problem with making everything we read in scripture to have a spiritual meaning that supersedes the intent of what is written. Living by every word of God does not mean super
spiritual revelation of a personal nature. It means LIVING as God instructs us...practically, on this earth, serving Him. It does not mean having a one on one ongoing conversation
like (as someone has already pointed out) that wonderful revelatory creature that walks among us, Benny Hinn. (I read Good Morning Holy Spirit and I cannot understand how
serious and committed Christians actually believe Benny and the Spirit of God communicate like that all day long. It just is not in the Bible...and I take my cues from the Bible
not from subjective experience)

You can never ever have a relationship with God as did His creation prior to the fall. The fall happened and it has created a rift that we will probably never quite understand until
we have passed from this existence into eternal life. If Paul wrote that we see through a glass darkly, like peering through your living room window on a foggy night
with only the street light casting circles of something other than dark into the shadows, tell me how, yes please, tell me how, you or me or anyone else goes about having a
dialogue with God who is Holy, as though no sin had ever occurred?

Respectfully, because I think you may mean well but do not understand the implications of your thoughts here, I would run from any spirit that addresses me in a familiar manner
as though God and me were best budds. In fact, IMO, the term familiar might be the clue as to what is really going on.

Yes, I believe in the operation of the Holy Spirit in our lives and the gifts of the Holy Spirit and whatever else the Bible actually teaches. But, the Bible does not teach what you
are describing. Further, the main cautionary advise Jesus gave appears to be the deception that has come, is still coming and that will result in the great falling away...or what is
left to fall away. That, is very serious stuff.

There is no revelation relationship. From what I have garnered from my wanderings through the blue planet we are spinning around on, Christians cannot even keep the words
that they already have, so why would God put more on them?

No....I'm sorry...but I think this is a fallacy and yes, I have heard it all before and known people who have lived or thought they were living that way. Disasterous. All about
feelings, followings and visions, dreams and words from God and they get further and further away from REVEALED truth and end up on a path that deviates consistently
and faithfully away from the the Light on the path we have already been chosen by God, to walk upon.

Don't take this personally. I don't know you...I'm just responding to what you wrote.

I have felt the mighty rushing wind of the holy Spirit and the heard the voice of the HS, they are just as real as anything you could name. and I have gone through times that I had to live by faith.

I don't say this to boast. Just to testify. " God is no respecter of person, what HE has done for others HE will do for you"
How many times a day do you pray ? How much time do you spend reading the Bible ? Is it enough ?

I read a story, That God sends out ten Angels with baskets every day to collect all the requests form his children. when they return HE sends out one Angel to gather all the thank you notes. If you want to get GOD 'S attention send Him thank you notes you don't have much computation.

Pomp.

Yeah. OK. Me too. So? It is not the experience, it is the dying to self and the day to day drudgery that show what we are really made of.

God does not send out 10 angels to collect requests. That is sheer nonsense. The Bible says that God Himself searches the planet for those who are searching for Him.

We also do not get stars for how many times a day we pray or anything else. What is 'enough' time for reading the Bible? If I never read the Bible again,
I would still know how to behave because God gives us a heart that WANTS to do His will.

Again, we do not get points, stars or a special place in heaven for doing what should come naturally for every child of God. Really.

 

[Just here]

You can never ever have a relationship with God as did His creation prior to the fall.

The above written is the saddest statement I have read in a really, really, really long time. Ok, well on facebook the other day someone's dog died, but.......the above statement has got to take the cake and supersedes that of any dog that has ever died!

Of course we can! First seek His Kingdom and His righteousness first.......

Knock and the door will be opened......

We can enter the Holy of Holies.......

There is no place I would rather be than in the presence of the Father. What a glorious place to be!

 

[Niki]

The above written is the saddest statement I have read in a really, really, really long time. Ok, well on facebook the other day someone's dog died, but.......the above statement has got to take the cake and supersedes that of any dog that has ever died!

Of course we can! First seek His Kingdom and His righteousness first.......

Knock and the door will be opened......

We can enter the Holy of Holies.......

There is no place I would rather be than in the presence of the Father. What a glorious place to be!

OK...so you have seen more than Paul? You are closer to God than Paul who stated we can only see as though through a dark glass?

It is concerning when Christians refuse to believe what the Bible actually states and want to believe and worse, cause others to believe, that what they write
holds more weight than the Bible

Our walk with God does include feelings, but feelings is not our walk with God. I can assure you that I have had goosebumps with the best of them.

We do not have a relationship with God as did His first creation prior to the fall. You cannot demonstrate that we do...you may think so, but it is not what
the Bible states.

We are not sinless....we experience redemption through the blood of Christ but neither you nor anyone else can possibly imagine what it is like to be in a sinless world.

You do experience forgiveness for your sins which enables you to come before God...that does not equate to never having sinned. I guess you just missed the entire point
because you wanted to make a point about one thing while disregarding everything else.

Being forgiven, does not mean you have never sinned. It means that God does not hold your sins against you any longer. Creation with the first human beings prior
to the fall, meant no sin whatsoever. That must be hard to grasp I guess.

Are you alone coming before God? Aren't all those who belong to Him able to come before Him? Your experience is only what God allows...you are not unique so your sad story
rendition only amounts to your own particular brand of sarcastic putdown.

One more time....the original creation had NO sin. You cannot make that claim. Forgiveness of your sin is what we experience. We cannot live in that state in the here an now.

The entire creation is groaning...that is what the Bible tells us. It is nonsense to assume we are in some perfected state...the teaching of the NT totally contradicts that notion

So tiresome