Romans

[FollowHim]

the disciples had no probs with that? Are you sure?

but little kids get a pass, huh
how come?

Kids get a pass?

 

[mjrhealth]

To become a new creation something substantial has to take place. And I know the hatred of those who say only faith matters, change is irrelevant.

Never yet met any one who says change is irrelevant, but Faith is what Pleases God, and if we have faith in God, we are good because God doesnt fail.

 

[FollowHim]

Never yet met any one who says change is irrelevant, but Faith is what Pleases God, and if we have faith in God, we are good because God doesnt fail.

Unfortunately I have met those who claim faith is everything change is a nice extra. They hate the concept of validation or failure, because how do you determine reality without fruit, and fruit requires proof, proof works, so earning reality and not a gift, so they stop there. It is actually about condemnation and hurts from legalistic pasts that mark them, and any way to avoid this will be taken.

One believer hated me so much he claimed fellow believers were ok but I was lost. He could not see his own hurt, just I was evil. Emotions are so odd, we take it for granted we are ok, not seeing our own self deception. God bless you

 

[bbyrd009]

Kids get a pass?

little kids? 3 year olds? Dont they?

i mean, i agree with your assessment of "forgiveness"...from the receiving end, but how about the other end?
Forgive and you will be forgiven?

Unfortunately I have met those who claim faith is everything change is a nice extra. They hate the concept of validation or failure, because how do you determine reality without fruit, and fruit requires proof, proof works, so earning reality and not a gift, so they stop there. It is actually about condemnation and hurts from legalistic pasts that mark them, and any way to avoid this will be taken.

One believer hated me so much he claimed fellow believers were ok but I was lost. He could not see his own hurt, just I was evil. Emotions are so odd, we take it for granted we are ok, not seeing our own self deception. God bless you

so, we might contemplate "emotions" as Eve, maybe...

 

[mjrhealth]

we take it for granted we are ok, not seeing our own self deception.

Yes many do, mostly the religious. Its like the SDA and RCC fighting all day, yet they are both from the same tree, both, like all religions, so blinded by the lies, they cannot and even refuse, to see the truth. The only Truth we have is in Christ, and that day when all men turn to Him to learn from Him we will all know the truth.

And as far as "nice" Jesus never promised us nice, we will suffer for His names sake, as for failure, God and Christ cannot fail, why do you think it is by Faith through grace, and why it is Faith, that pleases God. But so many are fearful of failure so they run around trying as if they could., please God by there works and doings.

Thats all religion. All about self.

 

[FollowHim]

little kids? 3 year olds? Dont they?

i mean, i agree with your assessment of "forgiveness"...from the receiving end, but how about the other end?
Forgive and you will be forgiven?

so, we might contemplate "emotions" as Eve, maybe...

This is where the tarmac hits the road. What is innocence and what is responsibility?
Some believe it is just that the lost are tortured for eternity in the lake of fire.
But this is absurd. How can a child who has not yet learnt to speak be guilty of punishment?
Or equally how can a child of a believer be worthy of being with the Lord?
Now call me niave but the Lord destroys people in the lake of fire, it is an eternal end.
Punishment is in Gehenna, a place of judgement and appropriate justice.
If you have caused pain and suffering for others for a limited time, is not justice to have to suffer likewise?

There is eternal torture for those who worship the beast and rebel openly against the Lord.
Some compromise and say all children below the age of consent are saved.
On this theology, it is better to be disabled and never mature, because then ones destination is sealed.
The principle of the Lord is love, and sharing. I am sure He has worked out everything, in balance and appropriateness.

Transformation is key to everything, to be cleansed and purified through the cross.
I put it this simply. Each situation we enter we learn a way of behaving that is consistent with that situation.
As we enter more and more situations, we create more and more inconsistences and contradictions. We tell ourselves we know who we are but actually we are the sum of all these interactions. If brought together they are just chaff, nothing consistent or together, just blowing in the wind, dependent only on what works best for us.

Jesus on the other hand ties everything together in us, makes us a whole that is consistent no matter the situation. And this consistency is eternal, it never ends rooted and grounded in Him. The prisoner is set free because we have built in us the power to be appropriate and know how to behave in the given situation. It is what Paul is talking about, faith, knowing Jesus is all we do, seeing as He sees, being slaves to righteousness because love is at work in us. God bless you

 

[bbyrd009]

There is eternal torture for those who worship the beast and rebel openly against the Lord.

well, guess it depends on how you mean that, i mean it will forever be so maybe, but then he who digs a pit for others to fall into ends up in it himself too eh?
"Lords" are Englyshe, and have serfs, btw, right

Some compromise and say all children below the age of consent are saved.

wadr imo that is bc neither one of them know what "saved" even means yet
I came that you might have life, more abundantly

 

[stunnedbygrace]

God reconciled us back to Him through Jesus Christ's death and resurrection, through the blood of Christ. By faith, we now have His power in us to walk as Christ did. We are clothed in the righteousness of Christ. It is the only way we can be empowered to walk as Jesus walked, there is no other way to reach the level of righteousness that is Christ's. We can do nothing without Christ.

The New Covenant law is the law of the Spirit in Christ Jesus, by faith, clothed in His righteousness.

In contrast, the written law is holy and just but it can never take a person to any sort of level of righteousness that God requires in a believer. A believer has His Spirit which can empower us, through faith, to now walk as Christ did (because Jesus fulfilled the written law). Jesus is our righteousness, for those who believe, this is the grace of God, again, we can not do anything without Christ.

It's all in Romans chapter 3 and 7, and 8. lol Paul talks about the written law, the law of sin and death - and the new law, the law of the Spirit (this is who we follow - not what).

We have the new law as a direct result of Christ fulfilling it, never before did this "new creation" exist - which is the believer. Never before were people empowered by the Spirit, NOW we have the ability to walk as Christ walked, riding us of the old man (not without struggle as we put to death our old nature, the old man). It's cool! We are truly a new creation!

I hope you understand what I'm trying to say.

Mmm...I actually dont think I do understand you. I'm not sure if you are not just repeating what you heard some man say. By faith, we CAN receive the power to walk as Jesus walked...but I dont run across any men who actually ARE walking in that power. What I see sometimes are these men: you have little power, but you have not denied me.

 

[Truther]

It is obeying the law that makes us right in his sight.

That's in Roman's, chapter 2 I think?

In chapter 1, he says God makes us right in His sight and it is accomplished from start to finish by faith.

Can you tie them together? Usually all I hear is arguments of 2 sides. I have not heard them tied together by men.

Actaully, the Law is still in force for sinners today to provide condemnation from God, which "schools" them from sunup to sundown about their sins.

When they get tired of this Law lifestyle of condemnation, the Holy Ghost and water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of their sins free's them from the Law.

After this process, Christ is the end of the Law for them, all the while, the world of sinners around them are still under the Law.

It is amazing to live in a world of God's condemnation, yet be secluded and freed from it.

 

[Agios]

Mmm...I actually dont think I do understand you. I'm not sure if you are not just repeating what you heard some man say. By faith, we CAN receive the power to walk as Jesus walked...but I dont run across any men who actually ARE walking in that power. What I see sometimes are these men: you have little power, but you have not denied me.

This is what I said, we are empowered to walk as Jesus walked.

Yep, I was raised in this truth and I know it's true.

 

[FollowHim]

This is what I said, we are empowered to walk as Jesus walked.

Yep, I was raised in this truth and I know it's true.

In our individualistic, defended, self important world, a lot of people assent to faith, but never actually grasp in deep in their hearts, and realise Jesus loves them, it is just a set of social statements they follow, probably because their parents followed them as well.

Jesus knew if through the cross we see love working for us, face to face, reality like we could touch it, then nothing can stop our walk or His work in our hearts. These are the elect, those whose hearts the Lord has touched and who never let go, not so much because they choose to but because they know who Jesus is. It is like asking someone who is rescued from a ship in a storm by a helicopter, why did they hang on to the rope? Was it their choice, and how important was that choice? The question is actually crazy because obviously they did not want to drown, and this was the only way out, so they would hang on for dear life.

It becomes apparent that the choice is ignored when the ship is not a ship in a storm, but a ship in the bahamas, the sun is shinning and there is no danger, the helicopter is for the legalists who believe you must be taken out, but they are just lost empty souls with no freedom, the rope is just delusion for hypocrites who think you must follow when actually any road is as good as any other.

The light of Christ tells the story either of a ship about to go down in storm and only one solution, or a ship in prosperity and safety, and just staying where one is, is what Jesus wants us to do.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

This is what I said, we are empowered to walk as Jesus walked.

Yep, I was raised in this truth and I know it's true.

Why do you think we dont see, or rarely see, someone walking as Jesus did?

 

[FollowHim]

Why do you think we dont see, or rarely see, someone walking as Jesus did?

I think we do all the time, we just do not know how to recognise it.
Jesus walked and only the disciples who listened saw the Saviour.

 

[Agios]

Why do you think we dont see, or rarely see, someone walking as Jesus did?

1). People aren't taught this 2). Unbelief 3). People said the "prayer of salvation" and they think that's good enough 4). They don't understand we're capable 5). They forget the gospel comes in truth and in POWER.

Maybe more reasons.

 

[FollowHim]

1). People aren't taught this 2). Unbelief 3). People said the "prayer of salvation" and they think that's good enough 4). They don't understand we're capable 5). They forget the gospel comes in truth and in POWER.

Maybe more reasons.

I see regularly about 10 people. I have a social circle of maybe 100.
The rest are strangers to me. It means unless one of these people walks like Jesus, I would never know.

When you start to look at how well we know another, even our wives or husbands, children or parents, we begin to see it is actually very difficult to "know" an individual let alone say, are they like Jesus.

It took 3 years for the disciples to say to Jesus, you are the Messiah, the Son of God.
Paul believed he walked well enough as Christs example, that the churches should follow him as their living example of what Jesus was.
God bless you

 

[Agios]

I see regularly about 10 people. I have a social circle of maybe 100.
The rest are strangers to me. It means unless one of these people walks like Jesus, I would never know.

When you start to look at how well we know another, even our wives or husbands, children or parents, we begin to see it is actually very difficult to "know" an individual let alone say, are they like Jesus.

It took 3 years for the disciples to say to Jesus, you are the Messiah, the Son of God.
Paul believed he walked well enough as Christs example, that the churches should follow him as their living example of what Jesus was.
God bless you

Most Christians don't even read the Bible, I have talked to so many "church goers" or people who claim Christ, but they admittedly say they never read the Bible. How would they even know what it means to walk as Jesus walked? How do they even know what is expected?

How does Jesus walk, FollowHim?

 

[FollowHim]

Most Christians don't even read the Bible, I have talked to so many "church goers" or people who claim Christ, but they admittedly say they never read the Bible. How would they even know what it means to walk as Jesus walked? How do they even know what is expected?

How does Jesus walk, FollowHim?

Start to listen to Jesus's parables, empathy with those around Him, friendship and openness with those He met, love given to those who at first might appear against Him. Paul described his walk as pure, blameless, holy.

 

[Agios]

Start to listen to Jesus's parables, empathy with those around Him, friendship and openness with those He met, love given to those who at first might appear against Him. Paul described his walk as pure, blameless, holy.

...... and sinless, miracle worker.

 

[CharismaticLady]

So then, how did He fulfill the law in you if you do not keep the law? Unless you are saying you never get angry...

The problem was not the law, but sin in our carnal nature that the law had to be kept through. The law says one thing; your nature the opposite.

Jesus came to take away the sin in our nature, by creating a new nature that partook of the divine nature. This is why Jesus said, "You must be born again." So now, with our new nature, the righteous requirements of the law can be fulfilled in us who no longer walk after the dead carnal flesh, but after the Spirit. Walk in the Spirit and you out pass keeping the old Law. In other words, we establish the law.

The Law was meant to show us our sin. With the desire to sin gone, the New Covenant Law of the Spirit replaces the Old Covenant Law of Sin and Death.

 

[quietthinker]

The Law was meant to show us our sin. With the desire to sin gone, the New Covenant Law of the Spirit replaces the Old Covenant Law of Sin and Death.

mumbo jumbo my dear!