Ok, moving on to the 6th trumpet, there are so many symbols in these verses .... just one of them is the 200 million. Who do you folks say they represent? Thanks.
Revelation 9:13 - 200 million
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TribulationSigns
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ScottA
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No, I don’t see that at all. First, the 200 million represents the army, not those that have been killed. Secondly, it states that 1/3 is killed - not all, and third, these are symbolic not literal. Further, I don’t think they represent those that have died in the past… these are those that no longer are deemed to be: a) among the 144,000 who have been sealed, they are not in the category of being identified as b) grass, trees, or green things. The 6th trumpet is when the voice of God is heard and is acting after the prayers are heard from those in the 5th trumpet. The time warnings (previous trumpets) is now moving forward to include God identifying those that have not and will not repent - these are they that will not be found to be “green things.”
The sixth angel sounds his trumpet, and the second woe to the inhabiters of the earth is revealed.... a third of mankind killed by the huge armies.
The 200 million will be the armies of the kings of the east as they march their way to Armageddon.
Their march westward will be near the end of the 7 years, when the sixth angel pours out his vial in Revelation16:12.
Revelation 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
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As it turns out....
The sixth angel sounding his trumpet (Revelation 9:14) coincides with the sixth angel pouring out his vial (Revelation 16:12).
Which brings up the question... are the trumpet angels and the vial angels, the same 7 angels ? I think so.
Especially by the way the wording is in Revelation 15:1. It seems like they are the same 7 angels.
Revelation 15:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
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I did a word search for "seven angels" in the kjv, phrase match. It seems to be the same consistent 7 angels all through these verses.
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Galgal
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The characteristic feature of the religion of the Antichrist: they take tithes. This means that there are 9 laity for every cleric. That is, 200 million cells of the Satanic false church are 2 billion nominal Christians in this world (you understand that they are Christians only in name). This entire horde will be activated when the Third Temple is being built and will be built. They will be opponents of God, opponents of the Temple and opponents of the saints who entered the eastern gate of the Temple. The beast of Wealth (Prosperity) will take them away. These are the Gentiles who tramplethe outer court of the temple of the Body of Christ for 42 months.
Galgal
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You are confusing the "kings of the earth" (Revelation 16:14) with the "kings of the east" (Revelation 16:12). The "kings of the earth" are the leaders of the Christian Babylonian denominations. The "kings of the east" are the "lost tribes of Israel", they are among the 5 wise virgins who will follow the Lord to Israel for the wedding feast.
Armageddon is not a military battle. Armageddon is a place where the shame of carnal Christians who seek Wealth will be revealed:
Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things. (Philippians 3:19)
Armageddon. "Ar" (הַר) - mountain, "gad" (גַד) - happiness, "megad" (מֶגָד) - a gift from heaven, good, "-on" (וֹן) - a diminutive suffix, with disdain. "Mountain of prosperity", "Mountain of freebies".
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You got your chapter references in parenthesis above mixed up.
"kings of the east" are in Revelation 16:12
"kings of the earth" are in Revelation 16:14
"king of the earth" in Revelation 16:14 are the kings from all points of the compass - north, south, east, west. Of that group, Revelation 16:12 is about the kings of the east....their way to Armageddon not being hindered by the Euphrates - as it will be dried up at that time.
No. Armageddon is a location in Israel, where the kings of the earth will assemble their armies to prepare to make war on Jesus and His armies. Revelation 19:21 tells what is going to happen to the kings of the earth and their armies. Jesus is going to destroy them.
Revelation 19:
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
Galgal
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Yes, thank you, I will correct the references now.
Revelation uses allegorical imagery. In ordinary wars, soldiers are not threatened with shame, but death. Armageddon is a spiritual battle, where pagans want to get earthly goods.
The kings from the rising of the sun are the lost tribes of Israel:
And whereas thou sawest that he gathered another peaceable multitude unto him;
Those are the ten tribes, which were carried away prisoners out of their own land in the time of Osea the king, whom Salmanasar the king of Assyria led away captive, and he carried them over the waters, and so came they into another land.
{But they took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country, where never mankind dwelt,
That they might there keep their statutes, which they never kept in their own land.
And they entered into Euphrates by the narrow places of the river.
For the most High then shewed signs for them, and held still the flood, till they were passed over.
For through that country there was a great way to go, namely, of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth.
Then dwelt they there until the latter time; and now when they shall begin to come,
The Highest shall stay the springs of the stream again, that they may go through: therefore sawest thou the multitude with peace.
But those that be left behind of thy people are they that are found within my borders.
Now when he destroyeth the multitude of the nations that are gathered together, he shall defend his people that remain.
(2 Esdras 13:39-49)
Jesus in the Second Coming is to restore the lost tribes of Israel:
And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth. (Isaiah 49:6)
This picture of the restoration of the lost tribes of Israel is described in Revelation 16:12.
3 Resurrections
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The sixth trumpet judgment is also ancient history. Not intended for our future at all.
Remember, the entirety of the sixth trumpet judgment begins in Rev. 9:13 and finishes up in Revelation 11:14, with some parenthetical, explanatory material sandwiched in between.
The supposed "200 million horsemen" is a grossly-exaggerated amount. The Greek states that this is "two myriads of myriads". Translators have mistakenly multiplied this phrase to arrive at a fictional 200 million horsemen. Actually, it was only 20,000 total. A "myriad" is 10,000. And two myriads would amount to only 20,000 - a number which was meant to reflect the 20,000 chariots of God's battle strength in Psalms 68:17 ("the chariots of God are twenty thousand..."). This means the mission accomplished by the 20,000 horsemen was going to be a God-ordained one - planned for a very specific hour, day, month, and year.
Think about it. There are only about 58-60 million horses in existence on the entire planet today. These horsemen in Revelation 9:16 were going to be used to slay one third of the men in the city of Jerusalem - NOT the entire planet. If this were 200 million horses for those horsemen to ride, there is no way possible for the location of the city of Jerusalem to contain that number. Let alone disposing of the loads of horse excrement or getting the feed required for their sustenance.
That "one third of men" which would be slain amounted to only 7,000 names of men (Rev. 11:13) in addition to the two murdered witnesses whose bodies were going to be left unburied in the streets of Jerusalem. If it was going to take 200 million horsemen to kill 7,002 persons, this is a ridiculous ratio of battle odds with 28,563 horsemen needed to kill just a single person in this sixth trumpet judgment. A more realistic ratio would be 20,000 who would kill 7,002 men - battle odds of around 3 to 1 instead.
In historical fulfillment, a total of 20,000 Idumean warriors under 4 commanders came to Jerusalem in either late AD 67 or early AD 68. They came to wage a battle against Jerusalem because they had believed the Zealots' lie that the moderate faction of high priest leaders governing Jerusalem were going to surrender the city to the Romans. This army of 20,000 Idumean horsemen was forbidden entrance into the city by Ananus and Joshua, the former high priest leaders in Jerusalem.
But one night shortly afterward, a fierce storm broke out, along with an earthquake (the earthquake of Rev. 11:13). Taking advantage of the loud tumult caused by these conditions, the competing Zealot faction sawed the bars of Jerusalem's gates open to admit the army of 20,000 Idumean horsemen into the city. By the morning after the earthquake and storm, a tenth of the city had fallen (Rev. 11:13) and one of the three competing factions in control of Jerusalem was eliminated (the 1/3 of men slain in Rev. 9:15). The two former high priest leaders of the moderate party, Ananus ben Annas and Joshua ben Gamaliel (the two witnesses of Rev. 11:), were slain, stripped of their garments, and left unburied in the streets of Jerusalem (Rev. 11:9), with their enemies standing on top of their dead bodies, mocking them for having forbidden them to enter the city before then.
Every detail of this sixth trumpet judgment was fulfilled in this recorded Idumean attack on Jerusalem back in the late AD 60's.
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I don’t think so! John is not writing about some battles or conflicts in Israel or anywhere else. These are the Revelations of Jesus not John and Jesus is not interested in revealing some historical facts!
But everyone is entitled to their own opinion or interpretations!
ScottA
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For us Revelation is almost entirely historical. For John's audience, some of these prophecies were things that had already taken place, were presently taking place, or were about to take place after John wrote (Rev. 1:19). That means Revelation was speaking of first-century events.
The only verse in Revelation which did NOT apply to the first century events is Revelation 10:4. Those prophecies which the seven thunders uttered were "sealed up", because they would be fulfilled in the distant future (our own future also).
TribulationSigns
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Several things that you got wrong:
1.) The army of Two Hundred Thousand Thousand of Revelation 9:16 are NOT the same with the "Kings of the East" of Revelation 16:12. Note that Revelation 16:12 did not say the "armies of the Kings of the East" as you falsely alleged.
2.) The Kings of the East of Revelation 16:12 are not soldiers from the Far East, Chinese or whatever. Rather they are the Chosen Saints of Jesus Christ in His Kingdom. Jesus Christ himself being the ULTIMATE KING FROM THE EAST! Here is Scripture proof:
Matthew 2:2
- "Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen His star in the East, and are come to worship him."
- "When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the East, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was."
- "And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,"
The Messenger from the East having the seal to secure the Saints in their forehead is the Spirit of Christ. Those kings from the east are those sealed of Christ. Note that they are also the kings of the Earth! Selah!
Revelation 1:5-7
- And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
- And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
- Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
The Kings of the East are the election, and the river Euphrates (signifies the spiritual border between the Congregation of Israel and the Gentiles) is dried up so their way will be prepared for them to depart from what is Spiritually Egypt (Revelation 11:8 )! Just as the water was dried up that the children of Israel could pass over from literal Egypt to the promised land on dry ground. I believe that this is part of the repeating scenario that God paints, as the church (individuals) were freed from spiritual bondage and delivered from spiritual Egypt, even at the cross. That the election flees what is the darkness of the church in spiritual Egypt, that is the sign of God's judgment upon them. Signs even as in Revelation, the Sun being darkened by the smoke. Or as in Revelation 18 where the elect mourn and God tells them to "rejoice" over her, because God has avenged you. God's will be done, and we are with Him in His judgment, as they are worthy.
When the river Euphrates is dried up, it means the the spiritual protection border for Congregation Israel for the past 2,000 years while His Church is being built IS GONE because all Elect has been secured. Don't forget that God's restraining hand protecting his Church has been removed to allow the wicked army of 200,000,000 (symbolic number - Gentiles army - false prophets and christs - more on that later on future post) horsemen to COME INTO congregation as a judgment but God has prepared for his faithful (kings of the East) to come out at the same time. Go look up in Revelation 11:1-2 yourself that confirms this!
Therefore Revelation 9:16 and 16:12 will have nothing to do with physical countries, their armies, their weapon, their tanks if you replace it with horses (lol), etc. you think will march from the East to national Israel in the Middle East. That is absurd. Not going to happen. Actually, the verses are being fulfilled before our eyes... if you have spiritual eyes to see...
You need to learn to stop interpreting verses with world news or geography to build up doctrine and instead compare Scripture with Scripture to find out who are the kings of the East according to God's interpretation! Not your private interpretation...and the flawed charts!
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No. The 7 trumpet plagues are end times, the present parable of the fig tree generation.
(during the great tribulation)
first plague - a third of the trees and all of the green grass burnt up.
second plague - a third part of the sea becomes blood as a third of the creatures in the sea die, a third part of the ships destroyed.
third plague - a third part of the waters on earth become poisoned.
fourth plague - a third part of sun, a third part of the sun, a third part of the stars, obscured from giving their light.
fifth plague - first woe - the flesh tormenting locust creatures.
sixth plague - second woe - a third of mankind killed by the huge armies.
seventh plague - third woe - Satan wrath, knowing his time is short.
3 Resurrections
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Christ cursed the fig tree in that first-century generation saying, "no man eat fruit of thee hereafter forever". And no one did.
We are drifting away from the topic of this thread.
The fig tree that Jesus cursed beside the road/path, withered up that same day and died. I agree no-one ate from that particular tree ever again.
The fig tree in the parable generation represents Jerusalem. Jerusalem returned to being in the hands of the Jews in 1967.
1967 + 70 years for a generation = 2037. Jesus will return sometime before the end of 2037. Which in turn, makes the great tribulation not that far into the future.
TribulationSigns
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Wow! People like you are wrong about the curse of the Fig Tree. You guys did not read the Scripture well. Let read two books on the subject:
Mar 11:13-14
(13) And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet.
(14) And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard it.
Mat 21:19-20
(19) And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.
(20) And when the disciples saw it, they marveled, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away!
First, note, that Christ did not talk about "fig tree generation." So the fig tree is here used as a parabolic representation of Israel. Christ came to Israel and they rejected Him, as He found no fruit there. As a result, the Kingdom was then taken from them, and there will not be any more fruit/works coming from that nation, EVER AGAIN, not even Douggg's vision of 1948/1967 restoration of Israel in his flawed doctrine! Read carefully:
Matthew 21:33-45
- "Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
- And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
- And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
- Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.
- But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
- But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
- And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
- When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
- They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
- Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
- Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
- And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
- And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them."
Acts 13:46-48
- "Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
- For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.
- And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed."
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ewq1938
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That's not the text of the 7th trumpet.
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
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