Okay, I am currently reading / considering / studying chapter 7 of Revelation and came across the 144,000. Are there any thoughts on who these folks are and their mission? Thanks.
Revelation 7: 4-8 The 144000
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Deborah_
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Galgal
Member
144,000 is the number of assemblies, not the number of people. "The seal of the living God" is the Holy Spirit. The angel who puts the "seal" comes from the "east". "East" in Hebrew means "antiquity".
The first "seal" was put on the assembly of believers in Jerusalem in 32 CE. By the time of the construction of the Third Temple, there will be 144,000 such assemblies that received the "seal" of the Holy Spirit.
Adam is an image of an individual. Eve is an image of the environment surrounding the individual. Adam defiled himself with Eve not by carnal intercourse, but by listening to those around him, doing as everyone else did - contrary to the commandment of God.
The 144,000 assemblies are such that they follow God, not paying attention to the words of those around them, they did not adapt to this world. This is like the 144,000 Jewish families, each of which bought a lamb for the celebration of Passover. At the center of each family are the saints, the martyrs, and each such gathering brought and brings itself as a sacrifice to God.
These are the firstborn. According to the law, the first fruits of the land are brought to the Temple from the holiday of Pentecost (Shavuot). The second name of this holiday is Bikkurim, which means "Firstfruits". These first fruits are brought until the autumn holidays. When the first fruits are brought, then you can eat the harvest from the field, but it is forbidden to take the harvest from the storehouses for food. You must bring a tithe.
The period of the Church, the period of churches, 144,000 communities sealed by the Holy Spirit, ends with the construction of the Third Temple. These first fruits are brought to this Temple, they are embodied in people who will enter the eastern gate of the Temple within 10 days. And these people are no longer the first fruits (the first fruits are in them, but it is not they themselves!). These people will be the "tithe" from the "harvest" of all saved by Christ among the nations.
The first "seal" was put on the assembly of believers in Jerusalem in 32 CE. By the time of the construction of the Third Temple, there will be 144,000 such assemblies that received the "seal" of the Holy Spirit.
Adam is an image of an individual. Eve is an image of the environment surrounding the individual. Adam defiled himself with Eve not by carnal intercourse, but by listening to those around him, doing as everyone else did - contrary to the commandment of God.
The 144,000 assemblies are such that they follow God, not paying attention to the words of those around them, they did not adapt to this world. This is like the 144,000 Jewish families, each of which bought a lamb for the celebration of Passover. At the center of each family are the saints, the martyrs, and each such gathering brought and brings itself as a sacrifice to God.
These are the firstborn. According to the law, the first fruits of the land are brought to the Temple from the holiday of Pentecost (Shavuot). The second name of this holiday is Bikkurim, which means "Firstfruits". These first fruits are brought until the autumn holidays. When the first fruits are brought, then you can eat the harvest from the field, but it is forbidden to take the harvest from the storehouses for food. You must bring a tithe.
The period of the Church, the period of churches, 144,000 communities sealed by the Holy Spirit, ends with the construction of the Third Temple. These first fruits are brought to this Temple, they are embodied in people who will enter the eastern gate of the Temple within 10 days. And these people are no longer the first fruits (the first fruits are in them, but it is not they themselves!). These people will be the "tithe" from the "harvest" of all saved by Christ among the nations.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
The 144,000 is SYMBOLIC and represents the COMPLETE Body of Christ = Thus the 12 Tribes and 12,000 from each Tribe
This is 100% TRUTH for in Revelation chapter 21, God tells us that the 144,000 of chapter 7 is His Bride
Revelation 21:9-14
Then one of the seven angels with the seven bowls full of the seven final plagues came and said to me,
“Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.”
10And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the holy city of Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God, 11shining with the glory of God. Its radiance was like a most precious jewel, like a jasper, as clear as crystal. 12The city had a great and high wall with twelve gates inscribed with the names of the twelve tribes of Israel, and twelve angels at the gates. 13There were three gates on the east, three on the north, three on the south, and three on the west. 14The wall of the city had twelve foundations bearing the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
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They are symbolic for the church. Revelation doesn't actually give them a purpose except for being faithful
David in NJ
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Are you referring to the third Temple as that which the current nation of Israel in the Middle East desires to build???
Galgal
Member
I don't know anything about the desire of the Israeli leadership to build the Third Temple. Especially about the desire to build the correct Third Temple, the one described in the prophecy of Ezekiel, chapters 40-48.
I think that we could build this Temple by the fall of 2025. In any case, I am putting all my efforts into this.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Galgal
Member
According to Ezekiel's prophecy, the Third Temple is to be built in the Judean Desert, 30 km south of Jerusalem, the site is free, we have a project.
The interpretation of Daniel's prophecy about the last week indicates that half of the week had already begun in the fall of 2023, when the Jews and Christians DID NOT BUILD the Temple by the time God had set in Scripture. As a result, on the greatest feast of the Lord, Simchat Torah, Hamas attacked.
1335 days have apparently already begun to be counted from the double earthquake in Turkey, which occurred on Tu Bishvat, February 6, 2023. If we follow the schemes for the implementation of the terms of 2300 evenings and mornings, 1290 days, 1335 days, then all this will be realized provided that the Third Temple is built by the 1st day of the 7th month of Tishrei in 2025. Then the city of Yahweh Shamma will be built by Simchat Torah 2026. If you want to read more, there are voluminous publications on this forum, in the topics:
The Third (Ezekiel's) Temple of Israel, Project 1534
Solution 1335 Days to Blessing
The Voices of the Seven Thunders and the Death of the Two Witnesses
The Seven Churches of Revelation Now
The day begins in the morning, for Jesus was born on the 8th day of Tishrei
These are all very complex explanations and are unlikely to be appropriate here in this topic.
Thanks for all your thoughts! I do believe the 144000 are symbolic, and they represent God's chosen people - the Jews at the end time. I think the 24 elderss - represent the 12 tribes and the 12 apostles, meaning ALL believers both Jew and Gentile since the beginning, but these 144000 are specfically being identified and called out in addition to the 24... so t think they have a very specific function at the end of time. What are you guys thinking? Thanks.
I think it’s best to start with Revelation 7:1-4 first as it gives a clearer picture of the timeframe that’s in view.
Revelation 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
In this verse the angels are exerting effort to prevent the wind from blowing on the earth.
Revelation 7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
Another angel cried to the angels in verse 1 which are described as “given” to hurt the earth. Which means the lack of wind is what caused the hurt.
Revelation 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
The angels in verse 1 are commanded not to hurt the earth, which means they were no longer allowed to prevent the wind from blowing until the servants of God are sealed.
Revelation 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
The number that were (as in past tense) sealed were 144,000. That is 144,000 were sealed while the wind didn’t blow.
At Pentecost a sound from heaven as a mighty rushing wind filled all the house where they were sitting. The 144,000 were sealed under the old covenant which is why they are seen as being sealed from the various tribes, while the wind didn’t blow. After this in Revelation 7:9 there is a great multitude which can’t be numbered from every nation and tongue. These are those who are saved during the new covenant, while the wind/Holy Spirit is blowing.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
The Church and the 144,000
Revelation 7:3-4 describe the 144,000 as “sealed.” That description is reserved in the NT for believers in Christ – His Body and Bride – His Church:
2 Corinthians 1:21-22
Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.
Ephesians 1:13
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Ephesians 4:30
Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
The Revelation 7 passage is therefore conveying the insight that the OT Israelitish faithful obedient saints of God are included under the NT banner of the Church. This is further confirmed by the meanings of the names of the listed tribes and substitutes (Levi and Joseph replacing Dan and Ephraim), describing spiritual qualities and experiences of those who comprise the Church:
Judah means “praise” (Genesis 29:35)
Reuben means “see, a Son” (Genesis 29:32)
Gad means “fortunate” (Genesis 30:11)
Asher means “happy” (Genesis 30:13)
Naphtali means “wrestling” (Genesis 30:8)
Manasseh means “forgetting” (Genesis 41:51)
Simeon means “heard” (Genesis 29:33)
Levi means “attached” (Genesis 29:34)
Issachar means “wages” (Genesis 30:18)
Zebulon means “dwelling” (Genesis 30:20)
Joseph means “He will add” (Genesis 30:24)
Benjamin means “Son of the right hand” (Genesis 35:17–18)
Similarly, the meanings of the names of Dan and Ephraim convey the reasons for their exclusion:
Dan means “a serpent by the way”(Genesis 49:17)
Satan in the guise of the serpent was responsible for the fall of mankind in Genesis 3, and for the bruising of Messiah's heel in Scripture's first recorded prophecy of Genesis 3:15. It was the same serpent Satan whose head Messiah bruised at Calvary.
Ephraim means “fruitful in the land of mine affliction” (Genesis 41:52)
The reference to “the land of mine affliction” in Ephraim's name's meaning is to that of Egypt, which in Scripture is both a literal and spiritual reality and symbol of bondage. But the Church, God's Chosen People, do not inhabit a land of spiritual affliction and bondage. Rather, they inhabit the Heavenly Jerusalem on Mount Sion (Hebrews 12:22,23), located in the Heavenly Country that God has prepared for the faithful (Hebrews 11:16).
Of additional significance is the order in which the names are presented, differing from the usual presentation by order of birth. In particular, Judah appears first, in recognition of its role as the tribal progenitor of Christ, the Lion of Judah.
While rebellion and apostasy were repetitive afflictions of the OT Israelites, there were still thousands who remained faithful (1 Kings 19:18). Their number is depicted as 12, a scriptural value representing faithfulness; multiplied by 12, representing the faithful from each of the twelve tribes; multiplied by 1,000 representing the indeterminate but large number (Psalms 50:10; Psalms 91:7; Revelation 5:11) of the total faithful in Israel; thus, 144,000.
Revelation 14 continues the descriptions further reflecting the qualities and experiences of the redeemed – the Church. Absent here is any mention of tribal, ethnic, or other distinctions, thus conveying the reality of the inclusivity and unity of the NT Church which now embraces both Israelite and Gentile. Its number can also be depicted as 12, representing faithfulness; multipled by 12 representing the 12 faithful apostles, who with the prophets comprise the foundation of the NT church, with Christ as the Chief Cornerstone (Ephesians 2:20); multiplied by 1,000 representing the indeterminate but large number of the total faithful in the NT Church; thus, also 144,000.
The NT Church's inclusivity and unity are declared in the following:
Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Ephesians 2:14
For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall…
Colossians 3:11
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
The 144,00 are described as celibate, meaning that as the Bride of Christ, they are not defiled by adultery with the world (James 4:4). They sing a new song of deliverance and victory. They follow Christ wherever He goes. Their residence is heavenly Jerusalem on Mount Zion. (Hebrews 12:22)
No doubt about it…Christ and His Church are written all over the 144,000.
Chapter 7: John sees the whole Church (the great multitude), symbolically represented as a group of 144,000. The twelve tribes of Israel are named, but rearranged for symbolic purposes. Judah is placed at the first of the list, because Jesus is the “Lion of Judah”. Dan is removed from the list because Genesis 49 calls him a “serpent”, who is the enemy of the Church in the Revelation. Dan is replaced by Manasseh, similar to how Judas was replaced by Matthias. They are sealed with the seal of God, to show that they are protected from the wrath of Gods destruction of Jerusalem during the Jewish-Roman War. (67-70 AD)
Just as John hears of the Lion of the tribe of Judah he then turns and sees the Lamb that was slain, John hears of the 144,000 and then turns and sees the great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language. The great multitude are the martyred saints that came out of the great tribulation which is different from the wrath of God from which the saints are protected. The great tribulation started the day Stephen was martyred and is still happing today.
David in NJ
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Revelation Chapter 7 - a verse by verse exposition of Revelation 7 of the sealing of the one hundred forty and four thousand from the twelve tribes of Israel. Does it express the securing of 14400 Jewish saints, or the security of the saints of all families, and in all ages?
Galgal
Member
David in NJ
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This is how i would approach the subject and title for the thread.
Ezekiel's Temple - Literal or Symbolic , Built by God or built by man?
Galgal
Member
For me, such a question does not exist. There is a topic on the forum: The Third (Ezekiel's) Temple of Israel, Project 1534 . If you create a second topic with your question, I will have only one answer there:
Yes, the Third Temple described by Ezekiel is a literal Temple, and people must build the Temple, because God gave us all the necessary instructions for this in the Bible, the dimensions are given and the place is indicated. Whoever has not yet understood this, let him read Ezekiel, chapters 40-48.
I get bored discussing fairly obvious things.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
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