But that doesn't tell us the interpretation behind these verses. God gave them all to us so we could read, study, interpret and appreciate how He has put together His plan of salvation for all mankind. Here is what I think... at this time... Chapter 13 reveals the events, spoken symbolically, that speak to the sea beast, the earth beast and the dragon that will take place at the end of time. Here is 14, I am expecting the exact same revealing from God but this time, from a heavenly perspective - the other side that will win out. The fact that the first few verses are all positive, they include those who have been sealed and saved versus those in chapter 13 who did not have the seal of God, there is certainly a lot to read, study and interpret and unpack. Hope you agree with this...
Revelation 14:1 What is going on here?
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Were the angels in heaven created ? If so,then there is a timeline in heaven - that began with creation.
ewq1938
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All it says is the Mt. will exist forever.
It is a mountain and it is very near Jerusalem.
Sure. New Jerusalem will replace old Jerusalem, and Mt Zion will also exist, forever as the other verse says. Note that it does not say "heavenly mount Sion". Heavenly is applied to NJ only, and NJ descends from heaven to the Earth....and I believe it will rest near the one and only mount Zion (Sion).
Sorry, I was previously adding to the comment made by Verily to EWQ.....He provided him with the neat response and I just piggy-backed off of it.
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
What are your thoughts on the book of Ezekiel, when the Lord sent the man in linen with the inkhorn to mark those who cried regarding the abominations being done in the midst of them?
Eze 9:3
And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon he was, to the threshold of the house. And he called to the man clothed with linen, which had the writer's inkhorn by his side;
Eze 9:4
And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.
Eze 9:6
Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.
Eze 9:11
And, behold, the man clothed with linen, which had the inkhorn by his side, reported the matter, saying, I have done as thou hast commanded me.
Rev 7:4
And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
Rev 14:1
And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
Rev 14:3
And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
Rev 14:4
These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
Eze 1:20
Whithersoever the spirit was to go, they went, thither was their spirit to go; and the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels.
It doesn't give a number of how many were sealed in the book of Ezekiel.
Just curious..
Hugs
Eze 9:3
And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon he was, to the threshold of the house. And he called to the man clothed with linen, which had the writer's inkhorn by his side;
Eze 9:4
And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.
Eze 9:6
Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.
Eze 9:11
And, behold, the man clothed with linen, which had the inkhorn by his side, reported the matter, saying, I have done as thou hast commanded me.
Rev 7:4
And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
Rev 14:1
And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
Rev 14:3
And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
Rev 14:4
These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
Eze 1:20
Whithersoever the spirit was to go, they went, thither was their spirit to go; and the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels.
It doesn't give a number of how many were sealed in the book of Ezekiel.
Just curious..
Hugs
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Thanks ewq1938 I agree, so coming to a mount that cannot be touched would not be speaking of a natural mountain (any touchable mount) but would be as coming unto an assembly of a people who trust the LORD who would be as mount Zion.
Sort of like the mountain of God of lively stones, similarly it says
1Peter 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
And then here, writing the name of His God and the city of His God upon them (which is the New Jerusalem)
Rev 3:11 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
Would that count as heaveny Jerusalem there? Do you know? I am throwing this out there since I am looking at something here and don't want to head down a rabbit trail.
I have apologize, I have not studied Ezekiel but many like yourself have pointed out just how much Ezekiel mirrors these verses in Revelation ... and I hope you agree, there is absolutely no such thing as a "conincidence" in the Scriptures. God has left us with so many breadcrumbs and relationships to His earlier books... He provides the way for us to identify actors in Revelation by going back to books like Ezekiel ... amazing ... and thank you for bringing that up.
ewq1938
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There is no thing as a mountain in heaven named Zion. There is one Mt Zion, and it is on Earth near Jerusalem, the same area NJ will descend to.
Now that is a terrific question. There is a timeline but only because that is how God is able to reveal and teach us His Word. No, He has no timeline but He presents His prophecies, His stories, etc, within time so we can, hopefully, follow Him. If I may, in Chapters 2 and 3, God presents His church in 7 very different ways. Not only do they represent the literal church that existed at the time of John, but He is also willing and able to present them as though each of the 7 churches could be found within a very specific time period in our history. And if you do look at these 7 churches thoughout the 2000 year period, there is no doubt that each of the 7 periods do reflect the specific characteristic that God wants us to focus on. This does not mean that any one of the 7 churches do not have members within them that could be found in any one or more of the 7 churches, but God is carving out each of the accomodations and problems a member within His church could be found to have... However, there is only one church, but God is slicing that one church up into 7 different views and focusing on each one of them to make each issue / problem so clear to us and what we need to do should we be found guilty of any one of them. This is God's way of teaching / showing us ... This is also the reason why God has decided to reveal Himself in 3 ways - there is only One God but He is revealing Himself as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit when it is most appropriate for Him to teach us about Him...So, in Revelation , He could easily have provided a series of comments on His One church which would have included all 7 of the flaws and accommodations, but His way is much more effective so He presented it in a time line since that is how we experience the world. If you look at the four horsemen, they too represent only one beast - the little horn of Daniel 7 and 8 - the papay. He is the sea beast but within the seals chapter God is breaking this beast down into its nasty characteristics because during their reign - He breaks their reign down into periods not 7, they will definitely inflict the kind of damage and destruction found in each of the beasts... but agaiin, there is only one beast. This pattern will continue throughout Revelation - God will present 7 trumpets - but there will only be one trumpet blast... but God is breaking it out as though there are 7 trumpets and specifically telling us the make up within each trumpet.... We would not have a chance in understanding Revelation if He did not spoon feed us His revelations in the manner we experience the world.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
I didnt say there was a mountain in heaven named Zion, and the one on earth near Jerusalem below was not the one I was speaking of. We are probably missing one another on this. But thats on me, for coming out and just pitching one out there. Thanks ewq1938
Note sure if you understand that Revelation is indeed all symbolic, yet you continue to look for a literal translation.... not going to happen. For what it is worth, and I have a pretty good feelling you will not accept the following comments from me, and thats alright, but here is a brief cut and past for Revelation 14:1-2 today. Doesn't mean you have to like or accept it....
In Revelation 14:1-2, the focus shifts dramatically from the dark and oppressive imagery of chapter 13, where the sea beast and earth beast work to deceive and control the world, to a scene of glorious triumph and worship. John now sees the Lamb standing on Mount Zion, accompanied by the 144,000 faithful, with a heavenly voice resounding like mighty waters and harpists playing their harps. This moment is a powerful and uplifting contrast to the previous chapter’s depiction of those who bore the mark of the beast.
The central figure here is the Lamb, Jesus Christ, who stands as the victorious and exalted Savior. Throughout Revelation, the Lamb symbolizes Jesus’ sacrificial love and His triumph over sin and death. Standing on Mount Zion, a location deeply significant in Scripture, we are reminded of both the earthly Jerusalem—where God’s people worshiped—and the heavenly Zion, the eternal dwelling place of God (Hebrews 12:22). This signals that the vision represents a spiritual victory and an assurance of Christ’s ultimate reign.
With the Lamb are the 144,000, previously introduced in Revelation 7. These do not reflect a literal number but a symbolic representation of God’s faithful people—those who have been redeemed, sealed, and set apart for Him. Their Father’s name written on their foreheads stands in stark contrast to those who bear the mark of the beast from chapter 13. Where the beast’s followers pledged allegiance to a counterfeit system, the 144,000 reflect their loyalty to God, bearing His name as a sign of ownership and devotion. This highlights a profound truth: while the beast claims authority over the world, God marks His people as His own, securing them for eternity.
The voice from heaven, described as like the sound of many waters and thunder, reflects the majesty and power of God. This same imagery is used in Revelation 1:15 to describe Christ’s voice, reinforcing the divine presence in this scene. The harpists playing their harps bring an element of worship and celebration, echoing Old Testament scenes where harps were used to praise God for victory, deliverance, and His faithfulness. For example, King David played the harp in worship, and harps were central in temple music (Psalm 33:2; 1 Chronicles 15:16). The harp also appeared in moments of prophecy, as seen when Elisha sought the Lord’s word (2 Kings 3:15). Here, the harpists symbolize the eternal joy and harmony of God’s presence and the triumphant worship of the redeemed.
This scene takes place in a heavenly context—Mount Zion likely refers to the heavenly Jerusalem—but it also speaks to the spiritual victory of God’s people on earth. In contrast to the beast’s oppressive reign in chapter 13, where humanity was deceived, controlled, and marked for destruction, chapter 14 opens with a vision of God’s faithful standing firm and victorious with the Lamb. This is a message of hope: no matter how powerful the beast’s system may seem, those who remain loyal to Christ will ultimately stand victorious with Him.
In chapter 13, we saw the beast rising from the sea and the earth beast deceiving the world, compelling people to worship the beast and take its mark. The focus was on Satan’s counterfeit system, filled with oppression, deception, and idolatry. The mark of the beast symbolized allegiance to this false kingdom, highlighting humanity’s rebellion against God.
Now, in chapter 14, the focus shifts to God’s true kingdom. Instead of a mark of the beast, we see the Father’s name on the foreheads of the 144,000. Instead of deception, there is worship. Instead of fear and coercion, there is joy and celebration. The scene serves as a divine counterpoint to the beast’s temporary reign, revealing the true King—Jesus Christ—and His victorious people. Revelation 14:1-2 reminds us that no matter how dark and oppressive the enemy’s reign may appear, the Lamb stands victorious, and His people stand with Him. The power of God’s voice and the joy of heavenly worship serve as a foretaste of the ultimate deliverance and triumph of His kingdom
Well, I really do apologize to you and ALL if I come across that way... I am so sorry - really very sorry! If you have concerns about the papacy, and please remember, you are NOT in the minority here, I would be happy to discuss that with you or anyone else. Doesn't mean you have to accept my interpretations or thoughts at all.You mean you're not going to give me a hard time because I asked a question? Whew!....but, but but, I was concerned about the 'papay'a?
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Hey CTK...it was all said in humour.
Beasts are beasts. We even use that language in the 21st century. I see it as a reference to oppressive systems....whatever their designation ie, political/ religious. It is clear that the Middle Ages in Europe saw an over arching oppressive religious system. My guess it will resurface in our modern age
Thanks for the response..... and don't you ever ask me any more questions.....
quietthinker
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