Revelation 14:1 What is going on here?

[quietthinker]

That's very false. Rev is mix of literal and symbolism.

or should it be John's Rev.....literally or symbolically?

oops, I got I wrong...

....ahhhh, aren't I a man .....or is it muscles on my pimples?

 

[CTK]

That's very false. Rev is mix of literal and symbolism.

You are entitled to your own opinion.

 

[Verily]

My first thought is that Mt. Zion is symbolic for heaven. I need to study 14 tomorrow… my mind is fried.

Heres a few


Psalm 125:1 They that trust in the LORD shall be as mount Zion, which cannot be removed, but abideth for ever.

Isaiah 28:16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

Which is speaking of Jesus Christ

1Peter 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious

1Cr 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

1Peter 2:4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,

1Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

Peter brings this one back in here

1Peter 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

Psalm 132:13 For the LORD hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation.

Ephes 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Of Zion the LORD says,

Psalm 132:14 This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it.

Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Jerm 3:14 Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion

 

[ewq1938]

Zion (Sion) is generally a name for Jerusalem, and mount Zion a mountain near Jerusalem.

 

[Verily]

Zion (Sion) is generally a name for Jerusalem, and mount Zion a mountain near Jerusalem.

Plural or singular? This is showing plural

Psalm 133:3 As the dew of Hermon, and as the dew that descended upon the mountains of Zion: for there the LORD commanded the blessing, even life for evermore.

 

[ewq1938]

Plural or singular? This is showing plural

Psalm 133:3 As the dew of Hermon, and as the dew that descended upon the mountains of Zion: for there the LORD commanded the blessing, even life for evermore.

There are many mountains around the city of Zion/Jerusalem. One of them is named Mount Zion.

 

[Verily]

There are many mountains around the city of Zion/Jerusalem. One of them is named Mount Zion.

Hey, I think I'll break out a map and check out the landscape thanks!

 

[Verily]

Why is Zion in the OT shown to be Sion also when you click on the word there

Isaiah 28:16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion H6726 for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

Same in the NT shows it as Sion and in the definition it says, " Sion or Zion"

1 Peter 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion G4622 a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

Whereas here in Deut the words Sion here is used once and in the verse equates it to Hermon

Deut 4:48 From Aroer, which is by the bank of the river Arnon, even unto mount Sion, H7865 which is Hermon, H2768

And in that defintion it says Sion is another name for Hermon which natural location is said to be here

1. a mountain on the northeastern border of Palestine and Lebanon and overlooking the border city of Dan

 

[quietthinker]

Just as 'Israel' is a metaphor, (which Paul clarifies in Romans 9) so also is Mt Zion. Misunderstand this and it's a dogs breakfast.
......and if a dog's breakfast is preferred, then it's your breakfast.

 

[Verily]

Just as 'Israel' is a metaphor, (which Paul clarifies in Romans 9) so also is Mt Zion. Misunderstand this and it's a dogs breakfast.
......and if a dog's breakfast is preferred, then it's your breakfast.

Sometimes I play with the thing when it goes "THUD"

 

[ewq1938]

Why is Zion in the OT shown to be Sion also when you click on the word there

Isaiah 28:16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion H6726 for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

Same in the NT shows it as Sion and in the definition it says, " Sion or Zion"

1 Peter 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion G4622 a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

Whereas here in Deut the words Sion here is used once and in the verse equates it to Hermon

Deut 4:48 From Aroer, which is by the bank of the river Arnon, even unto mount Sion, H7865 which is Hermon, H2768

And in that defintion it says Sion is another name for Hermon which natural location is said to be here

1. a mountain on the northeastern border of Palestine and Lebanon and overlooking the border city of Dan

Gill:

even unto Mount Sion, which is Hermon; the meaning is, that the lands of these two kings conquered by Israel reached from the city Aroer on the river Arnon to Mount Hermon, the one being the southern, the other the northern boundary of them. Here Hermon has another name Sion, and is to be carefully distinguished from Mount Zion near Jerusalem; it lying in a different country, and being written with a different letter in the Hebrew language. In the Septuagint version it is called Seon, and by the Targums of Jonathan and Jerusalem the mount of snow

 

[Verily]

Gill:

even unto Mount Sion, which is Hermon; the meaning is, that the lands of these two kings conquered by Israel reached from the city Aroer on the river Arnon to Mount Hermon, the one being the southern, the other the northern boundary of them. Here Hermon has another name Sion, and is to be carefully distinguished from Mount Zion near Jerusalem; it lying in a different country, and being written with a different letter in the Hebrew language. In the Septuagint version it is called Seon, and by the Targums of Jonathan and Jerusalem the mount of snow

Thanks ewq1938, I had to look up the Targums of Jonathan never heard of it before.

 

[ScottA]

But that doesn't tell us the interpretation behind these verses. God gave them all to us so we could read, study, interpret and appreciate how He has put together His plan of salvation for all mankind. Here is what I think... at this time... Chapter 13 reveals the events, spoken symbolically, that speak to the sea beast, the earth beast and the dragon that will take place at the end of time. Here is 14, I am expecting the exact same revealing from God but this time, from a heavenly perspective - the other side that will win out. The fact that the first few verses are all positive, they include those who have been sealed and saved versus those in chapter 13 who did not have the seal of God, there is certainly a lot to read, study and interpret and unpack. Hope you agree with this...

You are under the wrong impression about interpretation. We are not supposed to attempt to interpret the scriptures--that is what Pentecost revealed--that without the interpretation by the Holy Spirit, it all comes out like men drunk on new wine. Hence the multitude of bible interpretations and church denominations.

What should it look like then? It should look like it always has been. God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Which means everyone who has read the Bible, should know very well what God's given method for interpretation is: God gives the interpretation or He picks someone to declare it as from God. There is no other biblical method.

 

[ScottA]

Were the angels in heaven created ? If so,then there is a timeline in heaven - that began with creation.

That does not reconcile with God being "the same yesterday, today, and forever" or the infinite and timeless, "I AM" nature of God.

The things of God and heaven do not conform to the terms of this world, but we rather are to conform to His terms--which are not of this world.

 

[Douggg]

That does not reconcile with God being "the same yesterday, today, and forever" or the infinite and timeless, "I AM" nature of God

The angels in heaven are not God. They are part of God's creation.

There is a timeline in heaven that began with creation.

Differently, God Himself of course "is", "I AM", before time begins.

 

[quietthinker]

The angels in heaven are not God. They are part of God's creation.

There is a timeline in heaven that began with creation.

Differently, God Himself of course "is", "I AM", before time begins.

Perhaps the timeline started when angels rebelled.....because now life for them is running out......and those who did rebel are no longer in heaven.....they are here on Earth prompting men to party with them.

 

[Douggg]

Perhaps the timeline started when angels rebelled.....because now life for them is running out......and those who did rebel are no longer in heaven.....they are here on Earth prompting men to party with them.

We don't know the earliest point at which a third of the angels rebelled convinced to follow Satan in his rebellion.

Satan himself appears to have rebelled before the creation of Adam and Eve, since by acting through the serpent in the garden, lied to beguile Adam and Eve to eat from the forbidden tree.

Satan is called the father of lies in John 8:44 by Jesus.

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

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The rebellious angels, since being kicked out of the third heaven where God's throne is when they first rebelled, now inhabit the first and second heavens. As you say - the earth. But also the comos, the universe, the second heaven.

Eventually, half way through the coming 7 year 70th week of Daniel 9:27, they will be kicked down to earth from the second heaven in Revelation 12:7-9, as their time and kingdom called Babylon the Great begins to collapse over the time, times, half time that Satan will have left.

 

[ScottA]

The angels in heaven are not God. They are part of God's creation.

There is a timeline in heaven that began with creation.

Differently, God Himself of course "is", "I AM", before time begins.

On the contrary, the garden of creation is "eastward" of heaven.

 

[Douggg]

On the contrary, the garden of creation is "eastward" of heaven.

The text does not say eastward of heaven.

Genesis 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

Moses is the one who wrote down Genesis. It was eastward of where Moses was, and eastward of the promised land.

 

[ScottA]

The text does not say eastward of heaven.

Genesis 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

Moses is the one who wrote down Genesis. It was eastward of where Moses was, and eastward of the promised land.

You are mistaken, your interpretation is incorrect. The text says "eastward" of God--not of Moses. The Author is not Moses, but God, and that is the context.