Revelation 13 - the sea and the earth beast

[Douggg]

Daniel is the only one to write of the little horn and he did not write or see the change from little horn to the prince who shall come. There is no such change.

The little horn person attempts to make war on the Prince of princes - Jesus. The little horn person will do so in his fifth stage as the beast-king.

Daniel 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

 

[ewq1938]

The little horn person attempts to make war on the Prince of princes - Jesus. The little horn person will do so in his fifth stage as the beast-king.

There are no stages you keep mentioning.

 

[Douggg]

There are no stages you keep mentioning.

The little horn person attempts to make war on the Prince of princes - Jesus. The little horn person will do so as the beast-king.

Daniel 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

 

[TribulationSigns]

The little horn person attempts to make war on the Prince of princes - Jesus. The little horn person will do so as the beast-king.

Daniel 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

No. Not at all. Your interpreation is wrong. The little horn is NOT a person as you think.

Daniel 8:9-12

• "And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.
• And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
• Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.
• And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered."

Doesn't it follow that if the stars are not literal stars, then the place they are said to be residing in (heaven) is symbolic as well? Daniel is speaking of the little horn, the Spirit Satan as he is given power to assault the Church for a little season. They are being spoken of again as the stars, the host of heaven. The Prince or Ruler of the Host is Christ, He is the Prince of the congregation or Church. This is the same cryptic language as found in Revelation of stars falling. Here it pictures Satan's reign as this little horn (small power) waxed great, even to the host of heaven, and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them. . Clearly this speaks of the people of God's congregation. Not your supernatural person going to sit in a temple in the Middle East, causing the balls of fire in space to fall. Silly thoughts!

 

[The Light]

In Revelation there are two beasts mentioned - the sea and the earth beast. Who are they and why?

The beast of the sea is Nimrod, who was and is not and will come again. He is the king of Babylon and the Assyrian. He will come out of the pit.

Revelation 11
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

The beast of the earth has TWO HORNS.

Revelation
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

 

[CTK]

The beast of the sea is Nimrod, who was and is not and will come again. He is the king of Babylon and the Assyrian. He will come out of the pit.

Revelation 11
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

The beast of the earth has TWO HORNS.

Revelation
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

Thanks for your thoughts!
I would ask that you might consider looking in Daniel. There, He specifically identifies the 4 beasts or kingdoms that He calls out of the sea. And in chapter 7 He introduces us to the little horn for the first time. And it is he who comes out of the 4th beast of pagan Rome- notice he does not come out of the sea… he comes out of pagan Rome and then later in the same chapter he is found to “sit atop” the 4th beast.

Anyone would normally claim the 4th beast would be pagan Rome but before the little horn “sits atop” this beast, we find in Daniel 7:11 that the 4th beast was slain and its body was destroyed. So how can that be? It is because pagan Rome would indeed see its demise as the world power around 476 AD. As it was in the process of declining over the years, Christianity was growing exponentially. After pagan Rome ceased to (as world power) they would be replaced by the Christian church now headed by this extremely little horn. He would now “sit atop” this “replaced” empire and come to rule over both Christianity and all secular matters as well. This replaced 4th beast was made up of the people of the recently departed pagan Rome and headed by the papacy- the little horn.

In Revelation, the sea beast is this 4th beast that was once pagan Rome and is also known as papal Rome. The earth beast is one that supports this sea beast (papacy and the beast system) in every way he can.

So, if you want to identify the earth beast (and it is no coincidence that he is labeled as the “earth” beast - because he does come out of the earth - just like the little horn, neither were called out of the sea by God in Daniel 2), you might determine what was the “wound” inflicted on the papacy / beast. Obviously, the wound had to come after he was in power… so the wound had to be inflicted between 500 AD and today’s time. And it would be this “earth beast” who would come to his aid to recover the beast from its wounds.

 

[The Light]

Thanks for your thoughts!
I would ask that you might consider looking in Daniel. There, He specifically identifies the 4 beasts or kingdoms that He calls out of the sea. And in chapter 7 He introduces us to the little horn for the first time. And it is he who comes out of the 4th beast of pagan Rome- notice he does not come out of the sea… he comes out of pagan Rome and then later in the same chapter he is found to “sit atop” the 4th beast.

Hi CTK. Can you provide any scriptural proof that the 4th beast is Pagan Rome?

Secondly, Can you provide any scriptural proof that the little horn comes out of Pagan Rome? Scripture is clear that the beast of the sea comes out of the pit.

Anyone would normally claim the 4th beast would be pagan Rome but before the little horn “sits atop” this beast, we find in Daniel 7:11 that the 4th beast was slain and its body was destroyed.

The little horn does not sit atop Pagan Rome. This beast shall hate the whore, which is the daughter of Babylon, and make her desolate. The Vatican will be destroyed by the beast.

So how can that be? It is because pagan Rome would indeed see its demise as the world power around 476 AD. As it was in the process of declining over the years, Christianity was growing exponentially. After pagan Rome ceased to (as world power) they would be replaced by the Christian church now headed by this extremely little horn. He would now “sit atop” this “replaced” empire and come to rule over both Christianity and all secular matters as well. This replaced 4th beast was made up of the people of the recently departed pagan Rome and headed by the papacy- the little horn.

The little is a man.....not the Papacy.

Daniel 7
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

In Revelation, the sea beast is this 4th beast that was once pagan Rome and is also known as papal Rome. The earth beast is one that supports this sea beast (papacy and the beast system) in every way he can.

I see no evidence that the 4th beast is Pagan Rome. What scripture am I overlooking?

So, if you want to identify the earth beast (and it is no coincidence that he is labeled as the “earth” beast - because he does come out of the earth - just like the little horn, neither were called out of the sea by God in Daniel 2), you might determine what was the “wound” inflicted on the papacy / beast. Obviously, the wound had to come after he was in power… so the wound had to be inflicted between 500 AD and today’s time

It is impossible for this to be correct regarding the wound inflicted between 500Ad and now.

Revelation 17
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

The beast of the sea was and is not and will come again.

The beast was before Johns time.......is not in Johns time..............That means that the deadly wound took place before Johns time which was around 95AD

Additionally, the beast is of the 7, and therefore has to be among the 1st five that have fallen before Johns time. He is also an eighth. So the beast that was and is not will come again.

. And it would be this “earth beast” who would come to his aid to recover the beast from its wounds.

The beast of the earth has two horns and one of those horns is a former king of the North that will come to his end BEFORE the great tribulation. See Daniel 11-12.

Conclusion: It is scripturally impossible for the beast of the sea.......the little horn.........to be the Papacy.

 

[CTK]

Hi CTK. Can you provide any scriptural proof that the 4th beast is Pagan Rome?

I believe there is enough biblical and historical information on this.... it cannot be any other. So, who do you think could possibly be the 4th kingdom?

Rome was certainly the most dominate power after Greece. There are also perfectly symbolized as the iron kingdom. They conquered the entire world with brutality and without mercy (7:7). Also symbolized with having iron teeth (2:40). Rome was in power at the time of Christ. They brought in crucifixion, and the actors (Pilate, etc.) were Roman generals.They destroyed the Temple in 70 AD. The Jews returned from Babylon and the 70 weeks of prophecy in Daniel 9 ended with the last week when Jesus was crucified (490 year prophecy). They continued to approximately 476 AD when they would be slain and its body was destroyed (7:11). Rome would persecute the church under many Roman emperors.

Daniel 7:23-24.

Secondly, Can you provide any scriptural proof that the little horn comes out of Pagan Rome? Scripture is clear that the beast of the sea comes out of the pit.

Daniel 7:8. Daniel 7:19-20, Daniel 7:23-24.

The little horn does not sit atop Pagan Rome. This beast shall hate the whore, which is the daughter of Babylon, and make her desolate. The Vatican will be destroyed by the beast.

Daniel 7:8 and 7:20. In verse 8, the little horn came out among the 10 horns (after the 10 horns surfaced), but in verse 20 he had now come up to top of the head of the beast along with the 10 horns.

The little is a man.....not the Papacy.

Daniel 7
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

The little horn is a man with eyes and a mouth speaking great things. He represents the head of the 4th beast kingdom that will become known as papal Rome who will continue until the end when he will be destroyed without human hands. Daniel 8:23-25.

I see no evidence that the 4th beast is Pagan Rome. What scripture am I overlooking?

Who do you believe is the 4th kingdom if not Rome? This kingdom was ferocuious and stamped other nations with the feet of iron. There is no other kingdom that meets the timeline when the Messiah would arrive....

Tell me the verses that support your 4th kingdom --- if not Rome (biblical and scriptural).

It is impossible for this to be correct regarding the wound inflicted between 500Ad and now.

Please tell me why? What is the wound that is mentioned? Remember, Revelation is symbolic....

Revelation 17
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

The beast of the sea was and is not and will come again.

The beast was before Johns time.......is not in Johns time..............That means that the deadly wound took place before Johns time which was around 95AD

Additionally, the beast is of the 7, and therefore has to be among the 1st five that have fallen before Johns time. He is also an eighth. So the beast that was and is not will come again.

This requires a whole different conversation and would take time to discuss.... and there is absolutely no way this could be discussed if the the 4th kingdom back in Daniel is not found to be Rome.....

The beast of the earth has two horns and one of those horns is a former king of the North that will come to his end BEFORE the great tribulation. See Daniel 11-12.

There is no support for this.... Daniel 11 -12 does not discuss at all the earth beast. The sea beast is papal Rome while the harlot (little horn) in Revelation is the papacy. Therefore, who receives the wound? And when can this beast / papacy be inflicted with a wound? And it must be a powerful wound for God to mention it... and He also tells us this earth beast (entity that does not come out of the sea but comes forth from the earth, will do whatever it could to help heal the wound.... and remember, this is all symbolic in Revelation.

Conclusion: It is scripturally impossible for the beast of the sea.......the little horn.........to be the Papacy.

Please tell me why you thing this is so....

 

[Douggg]

The little horn does not sit atop Pagan Rome. This beast shall hate the whore, which is the daughter of Babylon, and make her desolate. The Vatican will be destroyed by the beast.

You are close. But it will be the ten kings which will rule with the beast-king who will destroy the Vatican.

Revelation 17:
16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

About mid way into the 7 years, the ten EU kings will hand their EU kingdom (the opposed to God kingdom coming out of the sea in Revelation 13) to the beast person for him to be dictator over it... as the beast person becomes the beast-king.

The false prophet will be the religious promoter of the beast-king. And have the statue image made and placed on the temple mount and the great tribulation begins.

Which during the great tribulation, citizens in Jerusalem will be brought before the statue image and required to bow/kneel and worship it. Everyone who refuses will be killed.

That's why Jesus said in Matthew 24:15-21, that everyone in Judaea to flee to the mountains right away when they see the abomination desolation standing in the holy place.

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The Vatican is going to be judged for the Christians it had killed and tortured during the inquisition. But it will not be because the papacy/popes were the little horn of Daniel 7 and Daniel 8.

The little horn person will be an end times Jew. Who will go through 5 stages to becoming the beast-king.

 

[Douggg]

Rome was certainly the most dominate power after Greece.

Yes, but why call it "pagan" Rome, while not calling the other kingdoms "pagan" Babylonian, "pagan" Medes/Persians, "pagan" Greek, as well ? They all were pagan.

Instead call it the ancient Roman Empire. And at the time of the little person - the end times Roman Empire, as little horn person meets his end in the end times.

The sea beast is papal Rome while the harlot (little horn) in Revelation is the papacy. Therefore, who receives the wound? And when can this beast / papacy be inflicted with a wound?

The opposed to God beast out of the sea in Revelation 13 has a mortally wounded but healed head (one of seven heads).

That beast out of the sea cannot be the little horn papacy of your view. Because the mortally wounded but healed head is a single individual person of the beast kingdom. That person is the little horn person.

The papacy is not the little horn. The little horn is a singular end times person.

 

[Douggg]

Daniel 8:9-12

• "And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.
• And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
• Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.
• And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered."

• "And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

The little horn person heads toward Israel from the north and west with a strong EU army. It will be when, following right after Gog/Magog, he becomes the prince that shall come in Daniel 9:26-27.

Then after being anointed the King of Israel messiah, after about 3 years stops the daily sacrifice and commits the transgression of desolation.

The little horn at that time, makes declarations of having achieved God-hood - i.e. And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven

....and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.

The little horn will persecute and kill those persons who will oppose his claim of having achieved God-hood.

• Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.
• And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered."

The transgression of desolation act will be the 2Thessalonians2:4 act by the little horn Antichrist. Who by committing that act will reveal himself to be the man of sin, and not the messiah as the Jews will first have thought.

2Thessalonians2:
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

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. Clearly this speaks of the people of God's congregation. Not your supernatural person going to sit in a temple in the Middle East, causing the balls of fire in space to fall. Silly thoughts!

I never said "supernatural" person. Nor causing balls of fire in space of fall.

 

[TribulationSigns]

The little horn person heads toward Israel from the north and west with a strong EU army.

Speculation. The Bible does not say anything about the EU army and the "person" coming from the North. Silly.

It will be when, following right after Gog/Magog, he becomes the prince that shall come in Daniel 9:26-27.

Nope, wrong.

Again, the little horn is a short season or a little time of power that Satan will have when he is loosened from the Bottomless Pit. The battle of Satan's short season of rule against the camps of the Saints is, in fact, Gog and Magog itself!

Rev 20:3
(3) And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Rev 20:7-8
(7) And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
(8) And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

The army of Gog and Magog is the false prophets and christs that will attack the congregations (camps of the Saints) all over the Earth. Not about Russia/Arab against national Israel at all!

Then after being anointed the King of Israel messiah, after about 3 years stops the daily sacrifice and commits the transgression of desolation.

Nowhere in Scripture that support your "King of Israel" nonsense. The little Horn, get this... is not a person who claim to be "king of Israel. You just make it up. Horn has everything to do with power of whatever is in view. Not person!

The little horn at that time, makes declarations of having achieved God-hood - i.e. And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven

....and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.

Time out... First, you need to explain to us, who is the host of heaven and how the little horn cast down the stars. What stars are they?

The little horn will persecute and kill those persons who will oppose his claim of having achieved God-hood.

• Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.
• And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered."

The transgression of desolation act will be the 2Thessalonians2:4 act by the little horn Antichrist. Who by committing that act will reveal himself to be the man of sin, and not the messiah as the Jews will first have thought.

2Thessalonians2:
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

You got everything wrong. This has NOTHING to do with National Israel in the Middle East where you think will take place with your precious "King of Israel" theory coming from Europe who happened to be resurrected from the dead and be possessed by Satan. Not happening. You got wrong Israel to begin with.

The verses discuss the New Testament Congregation of Israel, which refers to the Church, and they focus on the period after Christ has completed building the Church when Satan is released. The "daily sacrifice" pertains to salvation through Christ for His people, not the animal sacrifices of ancient Israel. Once Christ has sealed all of His people, the daily sacrifice (for salvation) will cease, leading to a time when there is no longer any salvation for a brief period until Christ returns. God allows Satan to bring an end to the daily sacrifice, using him as a tool of judgment against unfaithful Christians—those who have not yet been sealed by God within the Church because they do not love the truth.

I never said "supernatural" person.

Satan possessed man. Same thing.

Nor causing balls of fire in space of fall.

Then explain how the Little Horn cast the stars of the host to fall. What stars are these? Are they physical? or Spiritual? Let hear this from you.

 

[Douggg]

hen explain how the Little Horn cast the stars of the host to fall. What stars are these? Are they physical? or Spiritual? Let hear this from you.

The stars are metaphorical. Since the little horn person heads to the pleasant land ( Daniel 8:9 ) - Israel - it is talking about when he kills a number of Jews who believe in the One True God - God Who is the host of heaven in Daniel 8:10.

Also, the little horn magnifies himself, i.e. claims to be greater than Jesus who is the prince of the host, Daniel 8:11.

The little horn, and his own host, i.e. backers, Daniel 8:12, stops the daily sacrifice of the two lambs, Daniel 8:11, Daniel 8:12, commits the transgression of desolation act, treading down the host (the Jews) under foot, Daniel 8:13.

From the time the daily sacrifice begins again, until the temple is cleansed will be 2300 days, Daniel 8:14.

Satan possessed man. Same thing.

The little horn person will not be possessed by Satan. Empowered by Satan, once the little horn becomes the beast-king, yes. Empowered, but not possessed by Satan. Satan at the time of the statue image made of the beast-king, will be indwelling it making it appear to come alive and speak. The statue image that the false prophet will demand be worshiped - and anyone who refusing to, be killed.

The army of Gog and Magog is the false prophets and christs that will attack the congregations (camps of the Saints) all over the Earth. Not about Russia/Arab against national Israel at all!

Gog's army, at the time of the little horn person, will be made up of the nations listed in Ezekiel 38.

The 7 years of Daniel 9:27 coincide with the 7 years that follow Gog/Magog in Ezekiel 39:9. At the end of those 7 years, in Ezekiel 39:17-20 is the Armageddon event corresponding to Revelation 19:17-18.

Jesus's return to this earth is then in Ezekiel 39:21-29.

 

[TribulationSigns]

The stars are metaphorical.

LOL. Look, you need to find God's definition for the stars in Scripture. You can't say, "oh the stars are metaphorical" without explaining what the stars represent in God's eyes. I take that you have no clues what the stars are.

Since the little horn person heads to the pleasant land ( Daniel 8:9 ) - Israel - it is talking about when he kills a number of Jews who believe in the One True God - God who is the host of heaven in Daniel 8:10.

Dan 8:9-10
(9) And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.
(10) And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.

The New Testament side of the pleasant land is NOT a piece of in the Middle East. It is the church - the New Testament congregation of Israel. Do you even know what the South and the East that the little horn WAXED GREAT toward? Don't tell me that you will speculate they are Egypt and Jordan, do you?

Also, the little horn magnifies himself, i.e. claims to be greater than Jesus who is the prince of the host, Daniel 8:11.

The stars are the messengers of the Church, because they are Christ's heavenly ambassadors on Earth, and He is the bright and morning star. These are stars (messengers) of the congregation being caused to fall BECAUSE of the deception of Satan when he will have a short period of power (little horn) once again to deceive. Selah!

The little horn, and his own host, i.e. backers, Daniel 8:12, stops the daily sacrifice of the two lambs, Daniel 8:11, Daniel 8:12, commits the transgression of desolation act, treading down the host (the Jews) under foot, Daniel 8:13.

The host given Satan against the daily sacrifice are the false prophets and christs IN THE CHURCH, the New Testament congregation of Israel, for their lawlessness and transgressions. Nothing to do with Jews or Israel in the Middle East. You are looking in the wrong place because you were obsessed with national Israel.

The little horn person will not be possessed by Satan. Empowered by Satan, once the little horn becomes the beast-king, yes. Empowered, but not possessed by Satan.

Per your chart, you drew that the dragon got into the dead body of the antichrist and resurrected it. Whatever you think but you still are wrong anyway.

Satan at the time of the statue image made of the beast-king, will be indwelling it making it appear to come alive and speak. The statue image that the false prophet will demand be worshiped - and anyone who refusing to, be killed.

Huh? A physical statue, probably made of stone or marble, will be able to made alive and start speaking? Do you even understand what the image is, don't you?

Rev 13:15-16
(15) And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
(16) And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

The second beast with two horns like a lamb is the false prophet (the body of false prophets and christs in the congregations of God) give life to the LIKENESS (image) of the Antichrist by propagating their false teachings, which leads to them overcoming the Church and causing all the faithful therein (the Two Witnesses - Elect) to be killed. Those remaining (ie. those who have not yet sealed by God) as a judgment of God are said to be marked on their hand signifying their will belongs to them, and in the forehead, signifying their mind is sold out to Spirit Satan. Just as a cow is branded or marked to signify ownership, so this signifies those unsealed people of the congregation are slaves to the false prophets and christs (beast) as a judgment.

So exactly what is the image of the beast. How was it given life and to speak?
The POWER is in THEIR TONGUES! A false god can only come to life through the words of men, who speak, teaching and propagate them - just like in the Old Testament. You need to realize that the spirit Satan works (speaks) THROUGH men, as they are the ones with the spirit of disobedience. In this cryptic imagery, Satan has given his children HIS NUMBER. That is also why GOd said it is the number of man (unsaved man). Becasue like being branded, they are indicated as slaves of Satan, not aware that they have the teachings of the sinful man, or man of lawlessness. The second beast represents the false prophets of this kingdom (church). They have power to give life to the beast because words are power! It is by their false preaching, teaching, with lying signs and wonders that deceive those IN THE CHURCH who have not yet truly sealed by God!
So, take Joel Osteen for example. This false prophet's words bring life to the first beast in the same way as our preaching the Gospel brings Life to our congregation or body of Christ. The death blow by Christ, the binding of Satan, took away the life of the beast so that Christ's church could be built with truthful testimony (great commission) -- until all Elect has been secured first. Then after this, the testimony of the Two Witnesses for salvation is finished, this beast is given life AGAIN that the nations (that couldn't be deceived) are NOW allowed to be deceived once again.

As you can see, this has nothing to do with your fantasy of events in the Middle East because you are looking at wrong Israel.

Gog's army, at the time of the little horn person, will be made up of the nations listed in Ezekiel 38.

No. God is not talking about Satan bringing the nations like the United States, Sudan, Peru, etc. to Israel. God is talking about UNSAVED people. The nations or gentiles are spiritually unsaved people v.s. spiritual Jews, the Christians. God is talking about Satan bringing the unsaved people into the House of God to deceive those who have not yet sealed and silence (kill) the Faithful Elect therein for not worship or buy/sell the false doctrine (image) of the false prophets and christ.

The 7 years of Daniel 9:27 coincide with the 7 years that follow Gog/Magog in Ezekiel 39:9.

The final week of Daniel is NOT 7 literal years. It is a covenant week that Christ confirmed with His People for the period from the Cross to the Second Coming. Not 7 year peace treaty with national Israel like you think.

At the end of those 7 years, in Ezekiel 39:17-20 is the Armageddon event corresponding to Revelation 19:17-18.

The spiritual battle of Armageddon will take place when Satan is loosened and gather his army of false prophets and christs into God's congregations all over the world. Not a regional physical war in the Middle East as you think!

 

[TribulationSigns]

More on the meaning of the image of the beast:

Colossians 1:14-15

• "In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
• Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:"

Revelation 16:2

• "And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image."

Whether it is the image [eikon] of Christ or the image [eikon] of the beast, it is signifying the representation or likeness of that thing. For example, Scripture tells us Christ is the exact "image" of God. If we worship Christ, we are worshipping God. Likewise the "image" of the beast is that which represents or is a likeness of Satan. If we worship the image or that which is like Satan, we worship Satan. Colossians 1 tells us Christ is the image of God, and it is just to worship that image. The beast is the image of Satan, and it is unrighteous to worship that image.

By the Spirit, true believers are conformed to God's image, and the likeness or ima of the beast is what ALL the wicked by nature conform to. By nature they worship him because they are ruled over by him as we are by Christ, and they are slaves to him. Receiving the mark, name or number of the beast signifies professing servants of God have gone into apostasy, a falling away of God's people to the abominations taking place in the holy place.

Matthew 24:15-16

• "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )
• Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:"

Those who do not flee are (or will be) deceived and marked of Satan's carnal congregation (the beast) as that is "signifying" they belong to him. Just as God of old marked His people in the forehead in the midst of abominations in His holy city "signifying" they belong to Him. God was painting a spiritual picture for us that we might compare Scripture with Scripture and come to the truth of the matter. Today's church really needs to ask itself this pertinent question. Are they of the likenes of Him who represents love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness and temperance--or are we worshiping him who represents greed, unfaithfulness, hatred, uncleanness, lust, idolatry, spiritual drunkenness, envying and murder? What image is really beloved and do they really worship? What spirit are they really in? Is it that of Christ in obedience or is it really that spirit of the adversary in disobedience (Ephesians 2:2)? Are we enamored with the kingdoms of this world (Romans 12:2), or the world to come (Mark 10:30). That determines who we worship, serve and whose image we seek after.

Matthew 4:8-10

• "Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
• And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
• Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve."

Satan offers the same temptation to us today, and we either are drawn to or adapt to his image or Christ's. For just as true believers, as servants of God, are conformed to the image [eikon] or likeness of Christ (Romans 8:29) to worship him, so in this same way the servants of Satan (the pseudo or anti-christ) are conformed to his image [eikon] or likeness to worship him. Some people think that people will be literally worshipping a statue, but as we worship the Lord in spirit and truth conforming to His image, so the wicked worship Satan in spirit and lies, conforming to his image. We all either serve one master or the other, there is no in-between or gray area. If we are opposed to the doctrines of Christ, we are serving the beast and are conformed to worship his image. Just as we have the name of Christ as Christian spiritually upon us as His children, they have the name of the beast spiritually upon them as children of the Devil. Just as we are marked of God unto salvation, so they are marked of the beast unto damnation.

Ezekiel 9:4

• "And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof."

There is nothing new under the sun saith the preacher. Even as God marked His servants of old who cried over the abominations of His people in the holy city, so the faithful in His congregation today are spiritually marked in their forehead illustrating they are the true servants bought with a price by Christ. Likewise, Satan spiritually marks his own, where they become his children, with his name or moniker and number. The image of the beast is a portrait of the "exact opposite" of the body of Christ, the Temple of Christ, the image of Christ. We worship in either one likeness or in the other. We are under one "representation" of one kingdom or the other. The Kingdom of Christ or the kingdom of the beast.

So then, I believe that the image of the beast signifies being "like" Satan, as those who don't worship Christ or who don't conform to His image, worship and conform to the antichrist image. The beast from the bottomless pit is the spirit of evil, the likeness of Satan, whom the unfaithful worship.

 

[Douggg]

Per your chart, you drew that the dragon got into the dead body of the antichrist and resurrected it. Whatever you think but you still are wrong anyway.

What chart ? I never claimed that the dragon - Satan - got into the dead body of the antichrist and resurrected it.

You get so mixed up on so many things - I don't have time to correct it all.

 

[The Light]

You are close. But it will be the ten kings which will rule with the beast-king who will destroy the Vatican.

I know. The beast will be in charge.

About mid way into the 7 years, the ten EU kings will hand their EU kingdom (the opposed to God kingdom coming out of the sea in Revelation 13) to the beast person for him to be dictator over it... as the beast person becomes the beast-king.

You are close. But these are not 10 EU kings, they are 10 kings of a world government that will be set up after the rapture of the Church.

The false prophet will be the religious promoter of the beast-king. And have the statue image made and placed on the temple mount and the great tribulation begins.

The false prophet is one horn of the two horned beast of the earth.

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The Vatican is going to be judged for the Christians it had killed and tortured during the inquisition. But it will not be because the papacy/popes were the little horn of Daniel 7 and Daniel 8.

The little horn person will be an end times Jew.

The little horn is not a Jew. The little horn is Nimrod, the king of Babylon, the Assyrian, who was and is not and will come again. Nimrod is the first king who will come out of the pit. There are seven kings and Nimrod was the 1st king. He will return as he is the eighth king that is of the 7.

Here is Jesus warning the Jews that the Messiah will not be in the secret burial chamber

Matthew 24
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

Who will go through 5 stages to becoming the beast-king.

You need to get off this 5 stages thing Douggg. You are taking the beast of the sea and beast of the earth and rolling them into a 5 stage beast. You need to figure out who the beast of the sea is in scripture..........such as the little horn and who the two horned beast of the earth is. Don't roll them together into one.

 

[ewq1938]

The little horn is Nimrod, the king of Babylon, the Assyrian, who was and is not and will come again.

Scripture never applies the "was and is not " etc to the little horn, and never says anything about Nimrod coming back which isn't even possible since the unsaved have ONE resurrection and it's at the GWTJ.

 

[The Light]

I believe there is enough biblical and historical information on this.... it cannot be any other. So, who do you think could possibly be the 4th kingdom?

The 4th kingdom is a 10 king, one world government.

Rome was certainly the most dominate power after Greece. There are also perfectly symbolized as the iron kingdom. They conquered the entire world with brutality and without mercy (7:7). Also symbolized with having iron teeth (2:40). Rome was in power at the time of Christ. They brought in crucifixion, and the actors (Pilate, etc.) were Roman generals.They destroyed the Temple in 70 AD. The Jews returned from Babylon and the 70 weeks of prophecy in Daniel 9 ended with the last week when Jesus was crucified (490 year prophecy). They continued to approximately 476 AD when they would be slain and its body was destroyed (7:11). Rome would persecute the church under many Roman emperors.

This 10-king 4th beast has not happened yet. It is not Rome.

Daniel 7:23-24.
Daniel 7:8. Daniel 7:19-20, Daniel 7:23-24.

Daniel 7:8 and 7:20. In verse 8, the little horn came out among the 10 horns (after the 10 horns surfaced), but in verse 20 he had now come up to top of the head of the beast along with the 10 horns.

The little horn is a man with eyes and a mouth speaking great things. He represents the head of the 4th beast kingdom that will become known as papal Rome who will continue until the end when he will be destroyed without human hands. Daniel 8:23-25.

The little horn is Nimrod who was and is not and will come again. He comes from pit and is the beast of the sea. He is the eighth king and is of the 7.

It puzzles me that the world knows what is coming and Christians don't. How many mummy movies do they have to make before you understand? The beast will offer eternal life. Do you think there will be any takers?

Who do you believe is the 4th kingdom if not Rome? This kingdom was ferocuious and stamped other nations with the feet of iron. There is no other kingdom that meets the timeline when the Messiah would arrive....

Tell me the verses that support your 4th kingdom --- if not Rome (biblical and scriptural).

Daniel 2
40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.

41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.

42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.

43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

These verses talking about iron and clay are talking about fallen angels and men going to war against Israel and God. What do you think all those Avenger movies are about? That war with God.

Please tell me why? What is the wound that is mentioned? Remember, Revelation is symbolic....

The wound of the sword was how Nimrod was killed. The beast of the sea was (before Johns time), is not (during Johns time) and will come again.

Do you think that Gulf War 2 was about weapons of mass destruction, that were never found or about the tomb of Gilgamesh, who is Nimrod. One week after the discovery of Nimrods tomb the United States was in Iraq and the first thing they did was go to that tomb of Gilgamesh. Can you say DNA?

Why does Jesus warn the Jews about the secret chambers?

Matthew 24
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

This requires a whole different conversation and would take time to discuss.... and there is absolutely no way this could be discussed if the the 4th kingdom back in Daniel is not found to be Rome.....

The kingdom being discussed is a last day 10 king world government. It has not happened yet. Rome is a wild goose chase.

There is no support for this.... Daniel 11 -12 does not discuss at all the earth beast.

These verses are talking about the rider on the white horse, the beast of the earth which is a two horned beast.

Daniel 11
21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.

22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.

23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.

Daniel 11
37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.

39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.

40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.

41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.

42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape.

43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.

44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.

45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

The sea beast is papal Rome while the harlot (little horn) in Revelation is the papacy. Therefore, who receives the wound? And when can this beast / papacy be inflicted with a wound? And it must be a powerful wound for God to mention it... and He also tells us this earth beast (entity that does not come out of the sea but comes forth from the earth, will do whatever it could to help heal the wound.... and remember, this is all symbolic in Revelation.




Please tell me why you thing this is so....

There are two beasts and neither is Papal Rome.

The beast of the sea, the little horn is Nimrod, the king of Babylon and the Assyrian as discussed above.

The beast of the earth has two horns which are the man of sin and the false prophet.

 

[CTK]

The 4th kingdom is a 10 king, one world government.

This 10-king 4th beast has not happened yet. It is not Rome.


The little horn is Nimrod who was and is not and will come again. He comes from pit and is the beast of the sea. He is the eighth king and is of the 7.

It puzzles me that the world knows what is coming and Christians don't. How many mummy movies do they have to make before you understand? The beast will offer eternal life. Do you think there will be any takers?


Daniel 2
40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.

41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.

42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.

43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

These verses talking about iron and clay are talking about fallen angels and men going to war against Israel and God. What do you think all those Avenger movies are about? That war with God.


The wound of the sword was how Nimrod was killed. The beast of the sea was (before Johns time), is not (during Johns time) and will come again.

Do you think that Gulf War 2 was about weapons of mass destruction, that were never found or about the tomb of Gilgamesh, who is Nimrod. One week after the discovery of Nimrods tomb the United States was in Iraq and the first thing they did was go to that tomb of Gilgamesh. Can you say DNA?

Why does Jesus warn the Jews about the secret chambers?

Matthew 24
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.



The kingdom being discussed is a last day 10 king world government. It has not happened yet. Rome is a wild goose chase.


These verses are talking about the rider on the white horse, the beast of the earth which is a two horned beast.

Daniel 11
21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.

22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.

23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.

Daniel 11
37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.

39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.

40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.

41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.

42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape.

43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.

44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.

45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

There are two beasts and neither is Papal Rome.

The beast of the sea, the little horn is Nimrod, the king of Babylon and the Assyrian as discussed above.

The beast of the earth has two horns which are the man of sin and the false prophet.

Thanks for your thoughts......