Revelation 13 - the sea and the earth beast

[Douggg]

So, we an start in Chatper 2 where God reveals the 4 and only 4 kingdoms - and you can tell me how you get more than 4 --- and again, leave Revelation out of this.... and use Scripture not feeling..... or assumptions...

There are four kingdoms in the Daniel 2 statue.

Babylonian
Medes-Persian
Greek
Roman

The feet and toes are weakened form of the Roman Empire in the end times.

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The seven kings of Revelation 17:10

Roman Empire (ancient)
1. Julius Caesar
2. Augustus Caesar
3. Tiberius
4. Caligula
5. Claudius
6. Nero

Roman Empire (end times)
7. little horn - leader over ten EU kings (the ten toes of Daniel 2)

Revelation 17:11
8. the beast king - the little horn killed and brought back to life as the beast king of Revelation 13, to rule 42 months. The ten kings have their crowns to rule with him that figurative one hour. The beast-king and the ten kings destroyed when Jesus returns at the end of the 42 months.

Daniel 2:44, in the days of the ten toes, God will set up a kingdom on earth that will beak into pieces and consume all the kingdoms in the statue that Nebuchadnezzar dreamed. i.e. Jesus returns bringing the kingdom of heaven to become the kingdom of God here on earth to rule over all nations.

 

[Douggg]

The 7 heads of the beast are not sequential in Rev 13. All 7 exist at the same time.

The text says 5 fallen (i.e. have died), one is (i.e. ruling at the time of John, 1st century), one yet to come (i.e. future of John's time)

 

[CTK]

This thread is about Revelation. Why would I not post about that book?

It is your loss, that John saw a clearer picture of the entire history of mankind, than Daniel did. You have to move on from the limited 5th century BC mentality, that only gets you to the first century AD. Telling anyone to forget Revelation and concentrate on Daniel is like telling a Calculus expert to quit their first year of college and go back and study 5th Grade Math.

God's Word can be used to strengthen and define other parts of Scripture. Revelation explains Daniel. Your interpretation of Daniel is just one out of thousands of interpretations out there. Why is yours more special or important than any other one?

I can say that God explicitly stated 5 kingdoms in Daniel 2. But would you even accept that? Saying God explicitly called out 4 does not change that there were 5. You do have to have 4 before you can accept 5. I have just accepted one more than you do, and God never explicitly said 4 in Daniel 2.

For some reason, you never address what I actually post, and you seem to reject any Scripture I give, and then complain when I don't use Scripture at all. Make up your mind. I am not one of those who places Daniel in the future, other than Daniel sees the GWT Judgment, but it is so blurry, one would think it already happened like the Preterist view claims. I already explained that Daniel 2 was all fulfilled by the 15th century, and the church began to fill the earth with missionaries as God explained in the dream given to Nebuchadnezzar, and interpretated by Daniel.

By the 19th century, the church had once again covered the earth like the first century church covered the Roman Empire, and then some. Why bring up the word "reconcile"? I don't see my interpretation as being a reconciliation between two books. We probably agree more than we disagree, but you keep throwing up a "Roman Legion" of excuses to disregard simple facts.

My points are so simple, I guess only a 5th grader would understand, and experts are so far above reality, they have concocted some complicated virtual reality.

Thanks for your response… I believe it is time for the two of us to move on…. No problem!

 

[ewq1938]

The text says 5 fallen (i.e. have died), one is (i.e. ruling at the time of John, 1st century), one yet to come (i.e. future of John's time)

That is about various kings from mostly the past, not areas of land (7 heads) where the future ten horns/kings will exist. Remember that horns are kings, but the heads represent something else. Never mix two different metaphors.

 

[ewq1938]

Revelation 17:11
8. the beast king - the little horn killed and brought back to life as the beast king of Revelation 13, to rule 42 months.

There is no little horn in Rev. No one is killed in Chp 13 anyways. The only coming back from death for the unsaved is in Rev 20, not Rev 13.

 

[Douggg]

That is about various kings from mostly the past, not areas of land (7 heads) where the future ten horns/kings will exist. Remember that horns are kings, but the heads represent something else. Never mix two different metaphors.

The text of Revelation 17 says that the seven heads represent (1) 7 mountains where the woman sits (2) 7 kings associated with that location.

The seven kings are sequential as I proved in my previous post.

Revelation 17:
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

 

[Douggg]

There is no little horn in Rev. No one is killed in Chp 13 anyways. The only coming back from death for the unsaved is in Rev 20, not Rev 13.

The person, first coming on the scene as the "little horn" in Daniel 7-8, goes through 5 stages to becoming the beast-king of Revelation 13.

As far as persons being killed in Revelation 13....

Revelation 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

 

[ewq1938]

The text of Revelation 17 says that the seven heads represent (1) 7 mountains where the woman sits (2) 7 kings associated with that location.

No, it does not associate the two. They are separate subjects.

The seven kings are sequential as I proved in my previous post.

Everyone already knows that. The 7 heads/mountains ARE NOT SEQUENTIAL. You err by conflating the kings and heads as if they are the same when they are not the same.

 

[ewq1938]

The person, first coming on the scene as the "little horn" in Daniel 7-8, goes through 5 stages to becoming the beast-king of Revelation 13.

There is nothing of the sort in the bible which is why you cannot show a single verse speaking of this.

As far as persons being killed in Revelation 13....

Nice try but I am speaking of there being no beast king that is killed as you believe. The mortal wound did not cause a mortality due to the healing. A wound healed, not a death and resurrection.

 

[Douggg]

There is nothing of the sort in the bible which is why you cannot show a single verse speaking of this.

Nice try but I am speaking of there being no beast king that is killed as you believe. The mortal wound did not cause a mortality due to the healing. A wound healed, not a death and resurrection.

The verses of the bible that apply to the 5 stages of the little horn are in red on my chart.

 

[Douggg]

Nice try but I am speaking of there being no beast king that is killed as you believe. The mortal wound did not cause a mortality due to the healing. A wound healed, not a death and resurrection.

Recovering from a severe wound would not be cause for people to worship the person. The person dies and comes back to life.

 

[ewq1938]

The verses of the bible that apply to the 5 stages of the little horn are in red on my chart.

There are no verses that speak of any stages. You just have quoted 5 verses you think are the endtimes person, and imagine there are stages and changes but that is not in any of the texts.

 

[ewq1938]

Recovering from a severe wound would not be cause for people to worship the person. The person dies and comes back to life.

Well Rev 13 doesn't say anything about a person being killed and resurrecting from the dead. It's imaginary religious fiction.

 

[Douggg]

Well the bible doesn't say anything about a person being killed and resurrecting from the dead. It's imaginary religious fiction.

Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.


Alive, then dead, then back to life.

King 7 will be killed, then come back alive as the beast-king, King 8.

 

[ewq1938]

Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Alive, then dead, then back to life.

No, one part of the beast was wounded and healed. It is the entire beast that impresses people not one of it's heads and not any one person either.

 

[Douggg]

No, one part of the beast was wounded and healed. It is the entire beast that impresses people not one of it's heads and not any one person either.

I updated my post #74. Read it again.

 

[ewq1938]

I updated my post #74. Read it again.

What you added is still not biblical. Heads are not kings, no one is killed and comes back alive. You have literally everything out of place, conflated and rearranged into a new story line.

 

[Douggg]

What you added is still not biblical.

Yes, it is biblical. I copied and pasted right from the King James Version bible.


10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

Alive, then dead, then back to life.

King 7 will be killed, then come back alive as the beast-king, King 8.

 

[Douggg]

@ewq1938

I will summarize it real quick for you.

1. the little horn will emerge as a leader over ten EU leaders.

2. following Gog/Magog, the little horn will become the prince that shall come.

3. then the Jews (Judaism) will think the little horn is their long awaited King of Israel messiah. The little horn becomes the Antichrist.

4. then about three years go by, and the little horn commits the transgression of desolation, revealing himself as the man of sin.

5. then the little horn is killed and brought back to life as the beast king. The ten EU leaders rule with him.

6. then the statue image made of the little horn beast-king, placed on the temple mount, and the great tribulation begins, which people will be killed for refusing to worship the statue image.

 

[ewq1938]

@ewq1938

I will summarize it real quick for you.

1. the little horn will emerge as a leader over ten EU leaders.

2. following Gog/Magog, the little horn will become the prince that shall come.

Daniel is the only one to write of the little horn and he did not write or see the change from little horn to the prince who shall come. There is no such change.