Q for JW- KIEW?

[PS95]

I know the real Jesus. There are 4 different ones being taught on earth, 1 is real.

The One who died for us is REAL. You don't know HIM if you dont know He died for our SINS!!!!! the rest are fakes!!

 

[PS95]

Faith is the human hand of the arm stretched out to receive from God's hand the gift that He has given us, i.e justification. Faith IN the One who justifies the ungodly, and in HIS work, will save us. If we do not believe, we are calling God a liar - which is the thing that condemns:

Christ paid the price, according to the scripture. The blood of Christ and the empty tomb proves it. Nothing we can do, nothing other than the blood of Christ and the empty tomb will ever prove that we belong to Him and that we are saved, if we believe. There is nothing more that we can add to it, because Christ died for us while we were sinners (Romans 5:8), and that is what saved us - Christ's death, and Christ's resurrection.

"For whatsoever is born of God overcomes the world: and this is the victory that overcomes the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcomes the world, but he that believes that Jesus is the Son of God?" -- John 5:4-5.

WHAT HUMAN EFFORT CANNOT DO

"Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch CANNOT BEAR FRUIT OF ITSELF, except it abide in the vine; no more can all of you, except all of you abide in me. I am the vine, all of you are the branches: He that abides in me, and I in him, the same brings forth much fruit: for without me all of you can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned." -- John 15:4-6.

|| But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, willful restrain: against such there is no law. || -- Galatians 5:22-23.

|| Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loves another has fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Love works no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. || -- Romans 13:8-10.

Good works that are produced through faith in Christ alone are the fruit of the Spirit, the fruit of the Vine. Salvation is all of Christ, from start to finish (Philippians 1:6) and faith in Christ alone (John 3:18; 1 John 5:4-5) does not include faith in our own human effort.

Good works flow from faith in Christ and in His Word. Not the other way around. Our salvation and our justification does not depend upon us, but on Jesus the Messiah and upon His faithfulness to His Word and through our faith in His Word, because God's Word is truth.

To believe that it costs the believer something "to prove that we're saved" is adding human effort to Christ's finished work, and the one who does this is proving nothing except His lack of belief (faith) in the Word of God and the finished work of Christ.

The New Testament is teaching us that God has saved us. He has justified us by Christ's blood. Like in the case of Abraham, those who believe God are credited with Christ's righteousness. They are justified through their faith.

WHAT HUMAN EFFORT CAN DO

Peter wrote that God has "bestowed upon those who believe in Jesus precious and magnificent promises, so that by means of what was promised we may become partakers of the divine nature, after escaping the worldly corruption that is produced by evil desire."

Then he added:

2 Peter 1:4-8:
-- "For this very reason, make every effort to ADD to your faith:

Excellence, to excellence, knowledge; to knowledge, self-control; to self-control, perseverance; to perseverance, godliness; to godliness, brotherly affection; to brotherly affection, unselfish love."

Why add this?

"Because if these things are really yours and are continually increasing, they will keep you from becoming ineffective and unproductive in your pursuit of knowing our Lord Jesus Christ more intimately." -- 2 Peter 1:4-8

We cannot add our salvation or our justification through human effort, because it was all accomplished by Christ, but now, knowing that we are saved by Christ and justified by Christ through our faith (and not by human effort), for our own sake we should nevertheless make an effort to be diligent to add to our faith in Christ the list of things Peter mentioned above,

and we are doing so in order that we will kept from becoming ineffective and unproductive in our pursuit of knowing our Lord Jesus Christ more intimately.

Nevertheless when we bear fruit unto God we are not justified by our faith or by our works. We are justified through our faith IN Him and in the blood and resurrection which justified us - HIS blood and resurrection.

AMEN! I would bear hug you if you were here! Thank you for that post. One day we will meet! Praise God!!

 

[PS95]

Your trinity god does not exist. It is satan posing to get worship. He is posing as ALL false gods to get worship.

GNOSTIC GUESSING GAME

Doctrine of Gnostic - Cerinthus, his heresy thrived in the 2nd half of the first century when the Apostle John was alive. (50-100 CE)--- Cerinthus was educated in the wisdom (gnosis) of the Egyptians in Alexandria, but was said to be Jewish. He had his own gospel which was a shortened corrupted...

www.christianityboard.com

What say you, Keiw?

 

[Jack]

Sadly, deception is like an addiction to heroine. You deny you are deceived, therefore refuse to acknowledge anything that may enlighten you to the truth...even scripture itself. I believe you are bound because you fail to acknowledge the truth regarding the identity and character of Jesus. I'm not talking about the trinity. I'm talking about Who Jesus is, and what the scriptures declare as to Who He is. If you knew Jesus, He would guide you into truth. Did you know that the scripture indentified Jesus as Jehovah? I am not saying He is the Father... He is the Son, and He shares His Father's name.

The Governing Body is MUCH worse than heroine! It's eternal Hell.

 

[Brakelite]

Psalm 110:1-quoted at Matt 22:44= The utterance of Jehovah to my Lord( Jesus) sit at my right hand until i make your enemies your footstool= 2 beings there-1 is Jehovah= God, one is Jesus a totally separate being who is not Jehovah. One CANNOT sit at their own right hand.

Why would you believe I would posit such a dumb idea? Of course there are 2 persons... The Father and His Son. No argument. I think though you should cleave to that and not turn it around and make the Son a created being. He was begotten. Not created as are the angels. Not adopted as are we. Begotten. Brought forth of the Father. They are a true Father and Son, not a make believe metaphor or position they volunteered for. All Israel believed they were children of God. But when Jesus claimed God as His Father they knew He was claiming much more than they had ever done, which is why they accused Him of blasphemy. It seems the demons were more informed than JWs are today.
By the way. God inspired Isaiah to declare the name and identity of Jesus, by actually calling Him Jehovah. See Isaiah 40:3. Both Matthew and Mark, under the inspiration of the same Spirit that inspired Isaiah, said that this prophecy of Isaiah's was fulfilled in the Messiah.

 

[hies]

Trusting in that sacrifice gets one no where without Obeying =gets one grace. One must have an accurate knowledge of truth= Every utterance( OT-NT) from God as Jesus said-Man MUST live by them( no pick and choose)--God only accepts worship in spirit and truth=John 4:22-24

Okay let's go over this again:
The definition of grace is undeserved favour. You will never deserve Christ's blood, nor could you possibly do anything to deserve it. It's a free gift. Obedience therefore cannot get you grace, that's a contradiction.

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast - Ephesians 2:8-9

I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing! - Galatians 2:21

Obedience follows as a result of true saving faith, but you do not obey in order to be saved, salvation/grace is received solely through faith

And it's a big difference. Thinking you're justified by being obedient makes you a Pharisee, self-righteous, proud, judgemental and is ultimately what killed Christ to begin with.

Whereas thinking you're justified solely by faith in what Jesus did for you will make you grateful, at peace, assured, and out of that gratitude and love you will be obedient, not to earn anything, but to say thank you to God.

Think about it: which is going to produce more Godly people? Those who only do good things for a selfish reason (to be saved), or those who do good out of love and gratitude for what God has done for them?

 

[Zao is life]

The only ones that remain in Jesus' love and he calls friend=OBEY him-John 15:10-14. The same way Jesus remains in his Fathers love, he obeys him.

Obedience to God = faith in Christ. Not faith in our works. You do not understand the one and only gospel of God. Like an Omelet with a rotten egg in it will always be inedible, your sin and works produced by sin will always disqualify you. Your works of "obedience" will never make up for your sin. Only faith in Christ will ever qualify you for eternal life with God.

The wages of sin is death and there is no 2nd sacrifice for sin for the unbeliever - which you currently are - and no 2nd resurrection from the 2nd death - the eternal death that you are on you way to, because you deny who God the Word is and think you can obey your way into eternal life.

 

[Keiw]

Yes, Keiw the wages of sin is death, but read the rest of the sentence!!!!!!!!!!! Now that you have skipped the WHOLE CHAPTER?!
okayyyyy talk about cherry picking. Ro 6:23
23 For the wages of sin is death, BUT the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Sin wage = death. It is not you paying God.
It is God paying you your wages ( what you have earned) for sin. Do you see?!!!!! EVERLASTING DEATH is YOUR CHOICE if you reject HIS SON's SACRIFICE FOR YOUR SINS!!!
VS.
23b. the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

You will be paid with death since you reject this ^^^^ HIS FREE GIFT!
He died for all of our sins <---- if you believe him. iF YOU WANT TO SAY IT'S NOT TRUE, THEN YOU CALL God a liar. --YOU CANT EARN THIS! IT'S FREE- A GIFT.. Jesus wanted to pay your debt!
IT'S SIMPLE. your CHOICE...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ DEATH OR CHRIST. ~~~~~~~~~~~
Once you make that decision- GO THANK GOD FOR THE FREE GIFT OF HIS SON FOR YOUR SINS. be sure you have repented. Now ask GOD for His HOLY SPIRIT to help you.
( "even you being evil know how to give good gifts to your children-- how much more will God give the Holy Spirit to those who ASK?")

Yes free gift to those who obey.

 

[Keiw]

The One who died for us is REAL. You don't know HIM if you dont know He died for our SINS!!!!! the rest are fakes!!

Acts 3:19--Repent and turn around to get sins blotted out.

 

[Keiw]

GNOSTIC GUESSING GAME

Doctrine of Gnostic - Cerinthus, his heresy thrived in the 2nd half of the first century when the Apostle John was alive. (50-100 CE)--- Cerinthus was educated in the wisdom (gnosis) of the Egyptians in Alexandria, but was said to be Jewish. He had his own gospel which was a shortened corrupted...

www.christianityboard.com

What say you, Keiw?

Say about what? Catholicisms own encyclopedia says--The apostolic Fathers knew nothing of God being a trinity. It wasnt established or assimilated into christian life until near the end of the 4th century)))--381 ce recorded history= the very first time the holy spirit was added to a godhead. None knew God as a trinity prior. In the 2nd century a man named Tertullian was considering that maybe God was a trinity= the true God was still being served= the Abrahamic God= a single being God= YHVH(Jehovah)=Jesus' God and Father.

 

[Keiw]

Why would you believe I would posit such a dumb idea? Of course there are 2 persons... The Father and His Son. No argument. I think though you should cleave to that and not turn it around and make the Son a created being. He was begotten. Not created as are the angels. Not adopted as are we. Begotten. Brought forth of the Father. They are a true Father and Son, not a make believe metaphor or position they volunteered for. All Israel believed they were children of God. But when Jesus claimed God as His Father they knew He was claiming much more than they had ever done, which is why they accused Him of blasphemy. It seems the demons were more informed than JWs are today.
By the way. God inspired Isaiah to declare the name and identity of Jesus, by actually calling Him Jehovah. See Isaiah 40:3. Both Matthew and Mark, under the inspiration of the same Spirit that inspired Isaiah, said that this prophecy of Isaiah's was fulfilled in the Messiah.

You stated Jesus is Jehovah= error.

 

[Keiw]

Okay let's go over this again:
The definition of grace is undeserved favour. You will never deserve Christ's blood, nor could you possibly do anything to deserve it. It's a free gift. Obedience therefore cannot get you grace, that's a contradiction.

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast - Ephesians 2:8-9

I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing! - Galatians 2:21

Obedience follows as a result of true saving faith, but you do not obey in order to be saved, salvation/grace is received solely through faith

And it's a big difference. Thinking you're justified by being obedient makes you a Pharisee, self-righteous, proud, judgemental and is ultimately what killed Christ to begin with.

Whereas thinking you're justified solely by faith in what Jesus did for you will make you grateful, at peace, assured, and out of that gratitude and love you will be obedient, not to earn anything, but to say thank you to God.

Think about it: which is going to produce more Godly people? Those who only do good things for a selfish reason (to be saved), or those who do good out of love and gratitude for what God has done for them?

All sin so yes those who get it, it is underserved.
Jesus is clear-To remain in his love and be his friend, one must obey him as he must obey his Father to remain in his love=John 15:10-14)--None outside of Jesus' love will get grace= One MUST obey.

 

[Keiw]

Obedience to God = faith in Christ. Not faith in our works. You do not understand the one and only gospel of God. Like an Omelet with a rotten egg in it will always be inedible, your sin and works produced by sin will always disqualify you. Your works of "obedience" will never make up for your sin. Only faith in Christ will ever qualify you for eternal life with God.

The wages of sin is death and there is no 2nd sacrifice for sin for the unbeliever - which you currently are - and no 2nd resurrection from the 2nd death - the eternal death that you are on you way to, because you deny who God the Word is and think you can obey your way into eternal life.

Jesus isn't God. Catholicism created a trinity at the council of Constantinople in 381 ce--Its recorded history fact, no trinity was EVER served prior or known. Except in pagan religions.

 

[hies]

Yes free gift to those who obey.

If you have to do something for a gift, it is not a gift. IT'S WORKS

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast - Ephesians 2:8-9

NOT BY WORKS

I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing! - Galatians 2:21

If you could be made righteous by your good deeds, Jesus' death was unneccessary!

The literal definition of the word grace means UNDESERVED FAVOUR

Jesus' blood for the forgiveness of your sins is not something you will ever deserve

All sin so yes those who get it, it is underserved.
Jesus is clear-To remain in his love and be his friend, one must obey him as he must obey his Father to remain in his love=John 15:10-14)--None outside of Jesus' love will get grace= One MUST obey.

I don't disagree that you must obey Christ. I disagree that obedience is what gives you salvation. Obedience is a RESULT of true saving faith. Obedience is a RESULT of your salvation. Evidence of it.

Through him we received grace and apostleship to call all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith for his name’s sake. - Romans 1:5

The JWs have it backwards. They think it's the obedience that saves them. When in actuality, it's the faith that saves, and true saving faith RESULTS in obedience.

Thinking you're justified by being obedient makes you a Pharisee, self-righteous (justified by what YOU have done), proud, judgemental and is ultimately what killed Christ to begin with.

Whereas thinking you're justified solely by faith in what Jesus did for you will make you grateful, at peace, assured, and out of that gratitude and love you will be obedient, not to earn anything, but to say thank you to God.

Think about it: which is going to produce more Godly people? Those who only do good things for a selfish reason (to be saved), or those who do good out of love and gratitude for what God has done for them?

 

[Zao is life]

Jesus isn't God. Catholicism created a trinity at the council of Constantinople in 381 ce--Its recorded history fact, no trinity was EVER served prior or known. Except in pagan religions.

Your talk is always based on misinformation and disinformation propagated by those around you in your cult. Those who believe in Jesus the Messiah have believed in the Trinity since way before the first Council of Nicea in 325 A.D:-

1. Ignatius a.d. 30–107
2. Justin Martyr a.d. 110–165
3. Ireneaus a.d. 120–202
4. Clement of Alexandria a.d. 153–217
5. Tertullian a.d. 145–220
6. Origen a.d. 185–254
7. Cyprian a.d. 200–258
8. Dionysius, Bishop of Alexandria a.d. 200–265
9. Novatian a.d. 210–280
10. Alexander, Bishop of Alexandria a.d. 273–326

-- FIRST COUNCIL OF NICEA --- 325 A.D

11. Augustine of Hippo a.d. 354–430

They all spoke of the Trinity and most of them were answering the same heresy revived by Russell in 1870 who also made prophecies that never came true - false prophet.

Jesus is the Word of God who became flesh and existed BEFORE all (created) things. He did not create Himself. It's no use talking to you though. You are blinded. I can only pray for you. Because no amount of truth or reason will change your mind. This is something only God the Holy Spirit can do - and you regard Him as a "force", not even wondering how a "force" can be grieved or bring all things Christ taught His disciples to memory or guide them into all truth or testify to the heart of man in man that Jesus is Lord and Messiah - God in the flesh.

Ignatius [30 AD -107 AD] in "The Epistle of Ignatius to the Philadelphians", Chapter IV:

"There is but one unbegotten Being, God, even the Father;
and one only-begotten Son, God, the Word and man;
and one Comforter, the Spirit of truth;
and also one preaching, and one faith, and one baptism."

-- There is to us only one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we by Him. -- 1 Corinthians 8:6.

 

[Zao is life]

@Keiw Stop being fooled. There is only one God, one Savior.

 

[Keiw]

Obedience to God = faith in Christ. Not faith in our works. You do not understand the one and only gospel of God. Like an Omelet with a rotten egg in it will always be inedible, your sin and works produced by sin will always disqualify you. Your works of "obedience" will never make up for your sin. Only faith in Christ will ever qualify you for eternal life with God.

The wages of sin is death and there is no 2nd sacrifice for sin for the unbeliever - which you currently are - and no 2nd resurrection from the 2nd death - the eternal death that you are on you way to, because you deny who God the Word is and think you can obey your way into eternal life.

No not faith in works, but works go hand with faith. As James teaches-faith without works is dead.--That says to me it takes works to build a strong living faith, so that when the hardships and persecutions come that faith will stand. But the ones who do not do works, their faith will fall because its dead.
So reality= it takes works and faith. and obeying.

 

[Keiw]

@Keiw Stop being fooled. There is only one God, one Savior.

One God=YHVH(Jehovah)In the OT.( Isaiah 44:6= I am YHVH(Jehovah) beside me( not we) there is no other God) YHVH(Jehovah) was the only savior. Upon Jesus completion of the ransom sacrifice he is called savior as well now.

 

[Brakelite]

You stated Jesus is Jehovah= error.

Wasn't me. It was Isaiah., Matthew, and Mark. Did you look up those verses? And I didn't say Jesus is Father Jehovah, I said the Son shares His Father's name, and is therefore God.

KJV Isaiah 40:3
3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

Speaking of John the Baptist, Matthew said...
KJV Matthew 3:3
3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

And Mark agreed, in fact, Mark's gospel was written first I believe...
KJV Mark 1:1-3
1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
2 As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
3 The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

No-one has ever declared themselves unworthy to tie the shoe laces of an angel. But the Son of God?

KJV Hebrews 1:1-3, 8
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

KJV Hebrews 1:4
4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

 

[Zao is life]

Upon Jesus completion of the ransom sacrifice he is called savior as well now.

There is still only one God. Jesus is not an additional God. You've once again implied and shown that in your false theology there is more than one God and more than one Savior. Your theology is idolatrous.