Proof of Rapture before Tribulation

[MA2444]

c.) falsely accuse and twist words(as you are doing now)

No sir. You seem to be being (intentionally?) vague. So I asked you...are you calling me a liar. Speak plain. Can you do that?
Can you answer direct questions ever?

 

[David in NJ]

WHy wont you answer my question?

God's words answers your questions EVERYTIME = you just keep on rejecting them

 

[David in NJ]

No sir. You seem to be being (intentionally?) vague. So I asked you...are you calling me a liar. Speak plain. Can you do that?
Can you answer direct questions ever?

So they watched Him, and sent spies who pretended to be righteous, that they might seize on His words, in order to deliver Him to the power and the authority of the governor.

 

[MA2444]

God's words answers your questions EVERYTIME = you just keep on rejecting them

I'l take that as a No.

So you have made the statement that pre trib is a huge evil. I asked what evil?

And you refuse (CANT) to answer the question.

 

[MA2444]

So they watched Him, and sent spies who pretended to be righteous, that they might seize on His words, in order to deliver Him to the power and the authority of the governor.

Blah blah blah blah Blahblahblah. Word salad as a diversionary tactic.

 

[ewq1938]

So NO mention of church whatsoever then.

So you agree the church is in the trib! Great. See, I can post ridiculous things also!

 

[ewq1938]

No the Candlestick you are speaking of represented the two witnesses and acknowledged in the Bible verse I gave you earlier

No, the 2W are two things, two churches and two anointed persons.

. cannot help if you do not believe the word of GOD...you have to answer to Him over that.

SAME TO YOU.

 

[Bladerunner]

Our Destiny:
Jeremiah 33:6-14 See this Land: it lies in ruins, inhabited by neither man or animals. Yet in this place, once more will be heard the sounds of joy and happiness, for I will restore the fortunes of My Land and people. The days are coming, says the Lord, when I shall bestow on Judah and Israel all the blessings I have promised to them.

Isaiah 30:18 The Lord is waiting to show you His favour. He yearns to have pity on you, for the Lord is full of justice. Happy are you who wait on Him.
Isaiah 52:6 On that Day My people will know My name and know that it is the Lord who speaks, here I am.

Ezekiel 34:22-31 Therefore, I shall save My flock and they will be ravaged no more....... You are the flock that I feed and I am your God.

Isaiah 65:24=25 Even before My people call to Me, I shall answer. Neither hurt nor harm will be done in all of My holy Land.

Isaiah 46:4 Till you grow old, I am the Lord and when white hairs come, I will carry you still. I have made you and I shall uphold you. I shall carry you away to safety.

Psalms 105:43-44 The Lord led out His people in triumph. He gave them lands of the heathen nations for their possession.

Isaiah 65:20-23 My people will build and plant for themselves, they will enjoy the fruit of their labour. They will be as long lived as a tree.

Ezekiel 36:8-12 Now you: Land of Israel, grow your plants and bear fruit for the homecoming of My people is near. The whole House of Israel will come, very many people and you will be their possession.

Psalms 147:2-3 The Lord gathers the scattered [faithful Christian] Israelites, He heals their broken spirit and binds their wounds. He rebuilds Jerusalem.

Joel 3:18 When that Day comes the Land will be well watered and productive.

Isaiah 32:15-20 The Spirit from on high will come upon the people, then the Land will become a well watered beautiful garden; a tranquil country, its people living in peace and security.

Romans 8:18 For I consider that the sufferings of the present times are not worth comparing with the glory that is going to be revealed to us.

Psalm 37:29 The righteous will possess the Land and will live there forever.
Ref: REB. Some verses abridged

Yes, but this is after the millennium...This is rev 21-22.....In the Millennium, the Remnant of Israel will rule the world with Jesus Christ from Israel. During the Millennium, the earth will be returned to its former self (Eden) and the wolf will lay down with the lamb. Not to sure about the cows and the bears (humor). Those that are (no doubt) gentiles will go back to their countries of origin. Their or their representative will have to travel to Israel every year. this will not be a problem as the land will most likely be one as it was in the beginning. The 50mile x 50 mile temple, not built by human hands will most likely be located some 10-15 north-east of Jerusalem...There is a valley there large enough to contain it. Here the Tribulation Saints will serve our Lord day and night at the temple. As far as the salvation goes, the gentiles (rem, the Jews have received the New Covenant and will not sin nor die)will have 100 years to make a decision to accept Jesus Christ. If they do not, they will thrown into the lake of fire...Notice that the Gentiles are mortal and required the fruit from the tree of life. It appears the only deaths during this period will be of the Gentiles....Can't wait to get there....1,000 years of peace.

 

[dad]

So you agree the church is in the trib! Great. See, I can post ridiculous things also!

How would pointing out that no church was mentioned at all in the only verse given to support that 'the church' was still here in the last seven years? It was claimed that the verse was actually talking about the church because it had the word candlestick in it. I exposed that claim for what it was. Do you say uncle now?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

To believe in no milennium on earth, is to change, add, remove or further corrupt the WORD of GOD...You have to spirtualize, allegorize the Book of Revelation as well.......I read it a literal, historical, grammatical and all of Revelation is Chronological.

If you want to completely ignore the format of the book of Revelation, that's your choice.

Do you apply your literal, historical, grammatical method to passages like this one:

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

This says a singular hour is coming during which all of the dead, saved and lost, will be resurrected. Does that line up with your literal interpretation from the highly symbolic book of Revelation?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Where did that come from?! Good on ya for saying that brother. Did the Lord put that on your heart?

I always say that whenever I see someone acting as if one's end times doctrine is a determining factor in salvation. It is not.

He did me. He said some do not seek the truth but they seek to bicker as a distraction from the truth. So I have made efforts to not bicker with you guys and perhaps learn something for myself.

Good for you.

There might be hope for you yet! Bless you in our Lord Jesus.

LOL. I'm not out looking to bicker with people. I'm always trying to get pre-tribs to just discuss and exegete scripture and they inevitably start trying to make things personal instead. It's frustrating.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

What about all those that receive the New Covenant? the OT Saints....the Tribulation Saints, those Gentiles who live through their 100 yr sanctification period in the millennium and of course the Remnant of Israel.

The new covenant was established by the blood of Christ long ago. Do you someow not understand that we are under the new covenant and that the old covenant was made obsolete long ago? These things you're talking about are not taught in scripture. There is no such thing as "Tribulation Saints" or a 1000 year future sanctification period or any of the dispensational doctrine you've been taught.

These are all separate from the Church, yet they recieve the same....Throughout the Bible. Grace and Mercy has been Jesus' way for those that believed...The delivery system is simply different...In the OT...God Spoke to the People, showed them miracles and kept those who believed...All of these are the Elect of GOD.

Scripture does not teach this anywhere. Please read the New Testament which teaches that God has one body, one people made up of Jew and Gentile believers who belong to Christ. That's it. Don't try to separate what the blood of Christ brought together as one.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I watch every day and If I died before the Rapture happens, then I have lost nothing. I still get to be with Jesus Christ in Heaven...On the other hand, when the Rapture event happen and one is not looking for it, Like the five foolish virgins, the Lord will not know you.

And what happens to people like the foolish virgins at that time? If you read Luke 13:25-28 you should see that they will be cast out from the presence of the Lord where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. That is what will happen to all unbelievers when Christ returns and we are caught up to Him. Paul said "sudden destruction" will come upon them from which "they shall not escape". The idea of a tribulation period occurring after that is not taught in scripture, nor is the idea of an earthly kingdom occurring after that.

 

[ChristinaL]

I'l take that as a No.

So you have made the statement that pre trib is a huge evil. I asked what evil?

And you refuse (CANT) to answer the question.

Some of these people remind me of a bible teacher I had a long time ago, a man who was a former Shaolin Temple monk before he converted. The problem I had with him though is though he was a good teacher he treated our bible sessions (or even those occasional sessions where we would just play an online game or two, giving the bible a rest for a bit) like he was still at the temple, or one of his kung fu schools where you dont question the master. And I didnt necessarily always agree with everything he taught but he seemed to have a problem accepting that he could be wrong once in a while

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

My Brother in Christ, you do not know the depth of evil that pre-trib rapture is and has done to the churches.

It is MUCH MORE then just saying 'pre-trib rapture'.

They CHANGE scripture in many many places and have also created a lie of "two gospels" = one for the Jew and one for the Gentile

Just think for a moment now: John McArthur, well known and respected as a Bible Teacher is telling people they can take the MARK

REMEDY - “The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.
REMEDY - Repentance from adding to God's words what HE never said.

Don't tell me what I know or don't know. I understand this every bit as much as you do. I understand that the doctrine can do damage in the church. It can make people fear persecution and it can make people believe in two gospels, like you said. I'm simply saying that believing in pre-trib doesn't mean someone is not saved. That's it.

 

[David in NJ]

Don't tell me what I know or don't know. I understand this every bit as much as you do. I understand that the doctrine can do damage in the church. It can make people fear persecution and it can make people believe in two gospels, like you said. I'm simply saying that believing in pre-trib doesn't mean someone is not saved. That's it.

Don't tell me what I know or don't know.

Have you become 'ALL KNOWING'

I understand that the doctrine can do damage in the church.

If this were true then there would be no need for JESUS and the Apostles WARNING the churches.

Revelation begins with JESUS warning the 6 churches. Only one church did not receive rebuke from the LORD.

The Laeodician church is in JEOPARDY of being CAST OUT = JESUS said "I will VOMIT you out of My Mouth"

So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. 17Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked— 18I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see.
As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent.

I'm simply saying that believing in pre-trib doesn't mean someone is not saved.

Correct - so STOP trying to paste that on my words = that is being dishonest.

It is the LORD Jesus Christ who says:
16“I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”
18For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; 19and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Should we ignore His words from prophecy because they are offensive to the churches???


WARNING WARNING WARNING

15“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

21“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

What about His words above? Too offensive???????????????????

 

[Keraz]

Yes, but this is after the millennium.

No; those Prophesies apply to the time before Jesus Returns. Proved by how we will elect our own leaders. Hosea 1:11, Jeremiah 30:21

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Have you become 'ALL KNOWING'

What kind of ridiculous question is this? I said nothing to warrant being asked this question.

If this were true then there would be no need for JESUS and the Apostles WARNING the churches.

Revelation begins with JESUS warning the 6 churches. Only one church did not receive rebuke from the LORD.

The Laeodician church is in JEOPARDY of being CAST OUT = JESUS said "I will VOMIT you out of My Mouth"

So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. 17Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked— 18I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see.
As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent.


Correct - so STOP trying to paste that on my words = that is being dishonest.

It is the LORD Jesus Christ who says:
16“I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”
18For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; 19and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Should we ignore His words from prophecy because they are offensive to the churches???


WARNING WARNING WARNING

15“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

21“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Where did I say anything against any of this? Nowhere. I'm simply warning you about condemning anyone who should not be condemned and that's all. You're not getting my point, so I'm not going to waste any more time on this.

 

[MA2444]

I always say that whenever I see someone acting as if one's end times doctrine is a determining factor in salvation. It is not.


Good for you.


LOL. I'm not out looking to bicker with people. I'm always trying to get pre-tribs to just discuss and exegete scripture and they inevitably start trying to make things personal instead. It's frustrating.

But you wouldnt exegete anything with me when I tried. ??

 

[WPM]

But you wouldnt exegete anything with me when I tried. ??

Not true! He has tried numerous times with you and other Pretribbers and you have avoided the scriptural arguments. I have tried to get you away from this perosnal stuff and unto Scripture but you do not seem to want to go. Why not?