Proof of Rapture before Tribulation

[David in NJ]

Jesus said that the gates of hell could not prevail over the church. That does not mean many would not be killed or that there would not be persecution in some areas. Yes we can also interpret that this means the church is safe from death because we have eternal life. But obviously the meaning is special and important to the church. The believers of old before the church also had eternal life by believing Jesus would come one day. So Jesus promising that the forces of hell would never prevail over the church includes a special protection for our existence here on earth, to preach the gospel and etc.

During the tribulation, believers are broken as a power and public group and organization. They will be hunted and killed and not allowed to preach or even buy food etc. If the church were still here at that time the words of Jesus would be false and void.

That proves there has to be a gathering of the church together in the air before that time. It will be new believers who face these things and not the church.

Once again you have ZERO Proof and just your own false beliefs.

WARNING: Everyone who declares pre-trib rapture is saying JESUS lied.

JESUS said: "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

@dad = believe what JESUS says and you will escape Judgment

 

[Douggg]

It is obvious that the AC has to conquer the people in Jerusalem before he sits in the Temple. Daniel 7:25, Revelation 13:7

The Jews will welcome the person with open arms thinking he is their long awaited King of Israel messiah. No conquering of Israel involved.

The only conquering by the prince that shall come following Gog/Magog is against any residual factions of muslims rising up in the middle east. The prince that shall come acting as a so-called peace keeper in the region . Especially when the Jews start rebuilding the temple on the temple mount - and tearing down the Dome of the Rock and Al-Asqa mosque.

In Revelation 6, the rider on the white horse given a crown (anointed the King of Israel) that goes forth to conquer and conquering is talking about the Antichrist person. In Daniel 8:25, by peace, i.e. justifying that he conquering for the sake of peace in the region, he destroys many.

Revelation 12:6 and 14 are about the same time period. Making those two verses mean different times, is confuzion and error.

How can Revelation 12:7-9 be between Revelation 12:6 and 14 are the same period time ? Revelation 12:6 is before 12:14.

Which we are plainly told will happen AFTER the Millennium. Rev 20;11-15

Revelation 20:11-15 is the second resurrection to take part relative to the Millennium. The rapture/resurrection of 1Thesslaonians4:15-18 will be before the great tribulation, and before Jesus's Second Coming and before the Millennium begins..

 

[David in NJ]

The Jews will welcome the person with open arms thinking he is their long awaited King of Israel messiah. No conquering involved.


How can Revelation 12:7-9 be between Revelation 12:6 and 14 are the same period time ? Revelation 12:6 is before 12:14.


Revelation 20:11-15 is the second resurrection to take part relative to the Millennium. The rapture/resurrection of 1Thesslaonians4:15-18 will be before the great tribulation, and before Jesus's Second Coming and before the Millennium begins..

Revelation 20:11-15 is the second resurrection to take part relative to the Millennium. The rapture/resurrection of 1Thesslaonians4:15-18 will be before the great tribulation, and before Jesus's Second Coming and before the Millennium begins..

Do you think that lying against God's words is a good thing to do?
Every time you post "rapture/resurrection" you are LYING by reversing God's Order!!!
Don't you know that satanists love to reverse God's words?

SEE the Truth here: 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.
AFTER that we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.


SEE the Truth here: Revelation 20:6

This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection.
Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

 

[Douggg]

Do you think that lying against God's words is a good thing to do?
Every time you post rapture/resurrection you are LYING

SEE here: 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.
AFTER that we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.


SEE here: Revelation 20:6

This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection.
Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

I don't know who you are inferring is lying, but...

The rapture/resurrection of 1Thessalonians4:15-18 will take place before the transgression of desolation act by the Antichrist in 2Thessalonians2:4.

After Jesus returns, the first resurrection in Revelation 20:4-6 is specifically for the martyred great tribulation saints.

The second resurrection relative to the millennium is for everyone else who did not take part in either the rapture/resurrection, nor in the resurrection of the great tribulation martyrs.

 

[David in NJ]

I don't know who you are inferring is lying, but...

The rapture/resurrection of 1Thessalonians4:15-18 will take place before the transgression of desolation act by the Antichrist in 2Thessalonians2:4.

After Jesus returns, the first resurrection in Revelation 20:4-6 is specifically for the martyred great tribulation saints.

The second resurrection relative to the millennium is for everyone else who did not take part in either the rapture/resurrection, nor in the resurrection of the great tribulation martyrs.

Maybe you need LARGE PRINT

Every time you post "rapture/resurrection" you are LYING by reversing God's Order!!!
Don't you know that satanists love to reverse God's words?

Bow your knee & heart to the Truth = 1 Thess 4:13-18 and Revelation chapter 20

Pray for repentance unto the TRUTH of His words.

 

[dad]

Identifying who the person is who will become the Antichrist will indicate how close the world is to the beginning of the 7 year 70th week.

No we probably won't know before the Rapture. So it doesn't matter

If a person is not interested in the time of the end prophecies in the bible - then I agree it would be of no interest to them.

If they were interested they would realize we are not appointed to the wrath of God and that He is coming to take us away to be with Him soon

 

[dad]

The person who becomes the beast-king of Revelation 13 for the last 42 months of the 7 year 70th week evolves through four previous stages.

1. beginning as the little horn person - leader over 10 EU leaders.
2. then as the prince that shall come into the middle east following the Gog/Magog event.
3. then anointed the King of Israel thought-to-be messiah - becoming the Antichrist.
4. then revealed as the man of sin - and not the messiah after all.
5. then becomes the beast-king - dictator over the EU, for the last 42 months of the 7 year 70th week.

That could be. What also might be is that all the titles apply to the same person. So he could be a little horn, the prince that shall come, the man of sin, and the beast all at the same time rather than some sequence of events. It is true that it might take a little time after the rapture to solidify power over the world. Perhaps some of the titles could fit best then. But unless we plan to miss the rapture and are not saved, why would we be focused on the punk?

 

[dad]

Once again you have ZERO Proof and just your own false beliefs.

WARNING: Everyone who declares pre-trib rapture is saying JESUS lied.

JESUS said: "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

Since the rapture is several years before the return of Jesus to the earth after the tribulation, there is not even a connection between that verse and the rapture. Basically you are spamming off topic verses and accusing other posters who know better of being liars. Not very high class

 

[David in NJ]

Since the rapture is several years before the return of Jesus to the earth after the tribulation, there is not even a connection between that verse and the rapture. Basically you are spamming off topic verses and accusing other posters who know better of being liars. Not very high class

Since the rapture is several years before the return of Jesus to the earth after the tribulation

You have been LIED to and are regurgitating the LIE of 'pre-trib' rapture.

BUT, you have the opportunity to PROVE, from scripture where JESUS said ANY of the following:

a.) I will rapture my Elect/Bride/Church BEFORE the "Abomination of Desolation spoken by Daniel the Prophet"

b.) I will not permit My chosen/elect/saints/Bride/Church to suffer tribulation unto death.

c.) I will rapture my Bride/Saints/Elect/Church BEFORE the 'Day of Jacob's Trouble'.

d.) I have separated Jew from Gentile in the New Covenant

e.) My Saints/Elect/Redeemed Bride/Church will not see or face or suffer from the Antichrist

 

[David in NJ]

Since the rapture is several years before the return of Jesus to the earth after the tribulation, there is not even a connection between that verse and the rapture. Basically you are spamming off topic verses and accusing other posters who know better of being liars. Not very high class

Not a single false accusation has been spoken against you, @Douggg or anyone else!

pre-trib rapture is a 100% COMPLETE LIE and no one has EVER produce even one scripture that proclaims it from God's Mouth

As far as: "we are not appointed to wrath", this ONLY pertains to God's Wrath, not satan's wrath

SEE here 1 Thess 1:10 = we are commanded
to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

 

[David in NJ]

Since the rapture is several years before the return of Jesus to the earth after the tribulation, there is not even a connection between that verse and the rapture. Basically you are spamming off topic verses and accusing other posters who know better of being liars. Not very high class

spamming off topic verses

Now you are calling the LORD Jesus Christ a "spammer" since Matthew 24:29-31 is a DIRECT quote from His Mouth to all who believe His words.

You deliberately left out scripture in an attempt to substantiate your false accusation.

SEE here: Matthew 24:29-31
JESUS said:
"Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn,
and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

 

[Douggg]

That could be. What also might be is that all the titles apply to the same person. So he could be a little horn, the prince that shall come, the man of sin, and the beast all at the same time rather than some sequence of events. It is true that it might take a little time after the rapture to solidify power over the world. Perhaps some of the titles could fit best then. But unless we plan to miss the rapture and are not saved, why would we be focused on the punk?

Because the closer that person is to emerging, the closer the rapture/resurrection is. And the closer is all of the fulfillment's that are spoken of the bible regarding the end times, including the mystery of God of how God is going to bring an end to Satan's evil over the nations and mankind.

When the rapture/resurrection takes place, do you think that will end your involvement in God's plans for creation ? I do not. The raptured/resurrected Christians will return with Jesus as part of His armies of heaven, and reign and rule with Him here on earth for one thousand years.

So the idea is to get on board with God's plans, and not be limited to the desires of our own agenda, Take an interest in all that is going to happen.

BLT - not the sandwich, but food for the soul...

B - believe God
L - love God
T - trust God

Adopt that in your prayers. Think it. Grow by it.

 

[dad]

You have been LIED to and are regurgitating the LIE of 'pre-trib' rapture.

You have made statements you cannot back up whatsoever. You do not get to call Jesus taking us in the air as promised before the wrath a lie.

BUT, you have the opportunity to PROVE, from scripture where JESUS said ANY of the following:

a.) I will rapture my Elect/Bride/Church BEFORE the "Abomination of Desolation spoken by Daniel the Prophet"

That is part of the wrath of God. We are not appointed to wrath. Do you need the verse address?

b.) I will not permit My chosen/elect/saints/Bride/Church to suffer tribulation unto death.

He will permit the saints in that time after the rapture to do those things. Since we are not there in the wrath, it was not us He allowed to endure that.

c.) I will rapture my Bride/Saints/Elect/Church BEFORE the 'Day of Jacob's Trouble'.

That is when the wrath of God is. See above

d.) I have separated Jew from Gentile in the New Covenant

The ones who refused Jesus separated themselves from God and us. Jews that are and were saved are part of the church. The believers on earth after we are gone up to heaven are a new batch!

e.) My Saints/Elect/Redeemed Bride/Church will not see or face or suffer from the Antichrist

Those here will have to go through that time. Those raptured will not!
As the OP said, because the tribulation and great tribulation are the wrath of God, that proves the church is not there.

 

[dad]

Not a single false accusation has been spoken against you, @Douggg or anyone else!

pre-trib rapture is a 100% COMPLETE LIE and no one has EVER produce even one scripture that proclaims it from God's Mouth

As far as: "we are not appointed to wrath", this ONLY pertains to God's Wrath, not satan's wrath

SEE here 1 Thess 1:10 = we are commanded
to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

He said "Everyone who declares pre-trib rapture is saying JESUS lied." and you just claimed the rapture before the wrath is a complete lie! That is a false accusation against those who believe it.
The seven year period IS God's wrath. That may be where you derailed.

 

[dad]

Now you are calling the LORD Jesus Christ a "spammer" since Matthew 24:29-31 is a DIRECT quote from His Mouth to all who believe His words.

No, I pointed out that Mat 24 was not even about the rapture but about the return to earth of Jesus. So spamming verses that are not even about the rapture as if they were is doing what I said.

You deliberately left out scripture in an attempt to substantiate your false accusation.

SEE here: Matthew 24:29-31
JESUS said:
"Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn,
and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

I no more left that off topic bit out than I left the rest of the bible out! That is not about the rapture. Is that not obvious?

 

[dad]

Because the closer that person is to emerging, the closer the rapture/resurrection is.

Ah, I see You think it is a sign that the Rapture is almost here. But the bible says he will be revealed at a certain time.

2 Thes 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

That sounds like a certain time when God basically lets Satan have his little time of rule on earth. Or as I see it, it sounds like the same time as the Rapture when we also are taken out of the earth! THEN shall that antichrist be revealed. When God stops His hindering or holding back the antichrist from rising, then he does arise and will be revealed. That does sound like the same time as the Rapture. If so, then no one will know who the guy is till we are gone. Therefore guessing who he is cannot be a sign of the Rapture.

And the closer is all of the fulfillment's that are spoken of the bible regarding the end times, including the mystery of God of how God is going to bring an end to Satan's evil over the nations and mankind.

When the rapture/resurrection takes place, do you think that will end your involvement in God's plans for creation ? I do not. The raptured/resurrected Christians will return with Jesus as part of His armies of heaven, and reign and rule with Him here on earth for one thousand years.

Correct. He returns with His saints.

So the idea is to get on board with God's plans, and not be limited to the desires of our own agenda, Take an interest in all that is going to happen.

BLT - not the sandwich, but food for the soul...

B - believe God
L - love God
T - trust God

Adopt that in your prayers. Think it. Grow by it.

All good advice.

 

[ewq1938]

Your lack of clarity is the only problem. You cited two churches and talked about the men as if they were one and the same. Be honest

I explained it yet you still cling to this made up thing you are arguing against. It's a fallacy known as a strawman.

 

[Gottservant]

Can God not save souls before, during and after the Tribulation?

 

[dad]

I explained it yet you still cling to this made up thing you are arguing against. It's a fallacy known as a strawman.

No you did not. There is nothing to explain, they are two men. Trying to use them as some reason that the 'church' must still be here when they are is foolishness. No wonder you can't defend your claims. Instead you pretend that pointing this out is a 'strawaman' which is dishonest debating.

 

[MatthewG]

He said "Everyone who declares pre-trib rapture is saying JESUS lied." and you just claimed the rapture before the wrath is a complete lie! That is a false accusation against those who believe it.
The seven year period IS God's wrath. That may be where you derailed.

I believe Jesus came and rescued the bride before the destruction. That was the good news to them; to be rescued from it there in Jerusalem before it went up in literal flames of fire.

Many people disagree with me it’s fine. I see what you mean by people trying to over take your thread. By continuing to spam there beliefs. Gotta be firm with some. Hey okay that’s what you believe thank you for sharing, that’s all one can do. While I believe a lot differently than most essentially all we do is share what we know. No one has the authority to claim power over the other though through transparency it helps cause your both be clear and understanding. Then you have those who just frankly don’t give rooting tooting damn about what one may say and continue on in their spamming. Ya gotta be straight forward to tell to stop the crap or you’ll report them…


I know I for one use to be to passive; I’m more assertive these days, not combative. If a member takes notice and they actually care about you they will see it for what it is change their attitude hopefully in and by the Holy Spirit and perhaps change demeanor but it’s not always possible, God bless to all.

A lot of the time we are talking by our flesh and not the spirit. Everyone has to think and choose for themselves and not them choose for the other.



@dad useful? No useful?