Pre-Trib Dispensationalism IS False

[The Light]

No they don't, only one who is deceived by men's doctrines can't grasp that Apostle Paul got the 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 witness from Lord Jesus.

You seem deceived to me. You haven't even figured out that the Lord is coming in an hour that you think not.

The Matthew 24:31 gathering 'from one end of heaven to the other' aligns with 1 Thess.4:13-16 about Jesus bringing the 'asleep' saints 'from heaven' with Him when He comes.

Matthew 24:31 aligns with 1 Corinthians 15:51-52. 1 Thes 4 has already occurred before Matthew 24:31.

The Mark 13:27 version gathering 'from the earth' aligns with 1 Thess.4:17 about the saints still alive being "caught up" from the earth, to Jesus, when He comes.

The gathering BEFORE the wrath of God is from heaven and earth and has nothing whatsoever to do with 1 Thes 4:17

Easy, Peasy!

For some.

 

[Davy]

You seem deceived to me. You haven't even figured out that the Lord is coming in an hour that you think not.

Of course I would 'seem' deceived to you, IF... you keep men's FALSE tradition of a fly away Pre-trib Rapture theory. And it appears that is exactly what you believe on, men's false Pre-trib Rapture idea that only began in 1830's Great Britain by John Nelson Darby. Prior to that, ONLY a Post-tribulation coming by Christ and gathering of His saints was preached in the Christian Church.

Thus man's false Pre-trib Rapture theory is a doctrine of apostates who have fallen away from Christ and His Word.

Matthew 24:31 aligns with 1 Corinthians 15:51-52. 1 Thes 4 has already occurred before Matthew 24:31.

It is not just that one Matt.24:31 verse, but the 2 verses that precede it also like verse 29 and 30 where JESUS Himself tells YOU 'when' His coming to gather His faithful saints will be, i.e., IMMEDIATELY AFTER... the tribulation of those days, He said...

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

But I realize why you left out that 29th and 30th verses, because what Lord JESUS said there CONFLICTS with the FALSE Pre-trib Rapture doctrine from man that you instead have believed.

It is my hope that you will eventually come out that false Pre-trib Rapture tradition by men and recognize Christ's Truth He said in those above verses of when... He comes to gather His Church, and that is "Immediately after the tribulation of those days...". And He was not giving symbolism there, but a direct statement of Truth.

The gathering BEFORE the wrath of God is from heaven and earth and has nothing whatsoever to do with 1 Thes 4:17

Christ's coming and gathering of His saints will occur within the same short period that His cup of wrath is poured out, i.e., the 7th Vial of Revelation 16. Notice where... that 7th Vial is poured out. It is poured into the "air"...

Rev 16:15-17
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

16 And He gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, "It is done."
KJV

 

[The Light]

Of course I would 'seem' deceived to you, IF... you keep men's FALSE tradition of a fly away Pre-trib Rapture theory. And it appears that is exactly what you believe on, men's false Pre-trib Rapture idea that only began in 1830's Great Britain by John Nelson Darby. Prior to that, ONLY a Post-tribulation coming by Christ and gathering of His saints was preached in the Christian Church.

Total crock.

The early Church believed in a pretribulation rapture. If you did any RE-SEARCH you would find this to be the case. But you regurgitate, ignorance because you are not wise enough to RE-SEARCH for yourself.

And there are other considerations such as the Church of Rome controlling the Christian RELIGION from 325AD until what......the 1500's. Additionally the printing press was not invented until the 1400's. It's not like there were Bibles all over the place and men were fluent readers for all those years.

And along comes Darby, when there was no nation of Israel for 1700 years and he proclaims that the nation of Israel would be reborn. He got that by reading the Word of God. And he stood on faith that God would keep His promise to Israel. Darby was correct.

Why don't you do a little RE-SEARCH for yourself and get the facts. Quit regurgitating what the blind have taught you.

Thus man's false Pre-trib Rapture theory is a doctrine of apostates who have fallen away from Christ and His Word.

It a doctrine from the early Church, that had a light shined on it when a man of faith believed what God had written.

It is not just that one Matt.24:31 verse, but the 2 verses that precede it also like verse 29 and 30 where JESUS Himself tells YOU 'when' His coming to gather His faithful saints will be, i.e., IMMEDIATELY AFTER... the tribulation of those days, He said...

Exactly. He does come immediately AFTER the tribulation.........which is the 6th seal. Problem for you is, the 6th seal is NOT the 7th seal. The 6th seal is the end of the tribulation...............IMMEDIATELY AFTER the tribulation..........see. The 7th seal is the wrath of God.

Tribulation is not wrath, so you are clearly in error......AGAIN.

But I realize why you left out that 29th and 30th verses, because what Lord JESUS said there CONFLICTS with the FALSE Pre-trib Rapture doctrine from man that you instead have believed.

Are you so confused that you don't understand that Matthew 24:29-31 has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the pretribulation rapture. Those that believe in a pretrib rapture think that Matthew 24:29-31 occurs at Armageddon. So it is not a pretribulation rapture verse.

It is my hope that you will eventually come out that false Pre-trib Rapture tradition by men and recognize Christ's Truth He said in those above verses of when... He comes to gather His Church, and that is "Immediately after the tribulation of those days...". And He was not giving symbolism there, but a direct statement of Truth.

Christ does come immediately after the tribulation of those days..........at the 6th seal. That has nothing whatsoever to do with the 7th seal wrath of God.

Additionally, why do you keep babbling on and on in ignorance when I have already proven your claims are in error as the stars from heaven FALL AFTER THE TRIBULATION. This FACT makes your claims in error.

You have no clue what is going on and yet you continue to speak against the truth. Not wise.

Christ's coming and gathering of His saints will occur within the same short period that His cup of wrath is poured out, i.e., the 7th Vial of Revelation 16. Notice where... that 7th Vial is poured out. It is poured into the "air"...

There are two raptures. One pretrib and one pre wrath...........which is really post trib.

Bottom line.......the sixth seal is NOT the 7th seal.

 

[Behold]

The Rapture is very soon to come for the Bride....., as the Trib is about to begin.

Be ready..

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The Rapture is very soon to come for the Bride....., as the Trib is about to begin.

Be ready..

What makes you think that it will be soon? I thought those who believe in a pre-trib rapture claim that it is imminent and there are no signs preceding it?

 

[Davy]

Total crock.

Not a crock, even Pre-trib Rapture school scholars have admitted that the early Christian Church held to a Post-tribulational coming by Christ and gathering of the Church. You should do a bit of research for yourself on those pre-trib scholars you have believed on instead of your not believing what Lord Jesus Himself said about His coming after the tribulation to gather His Church.

 

[The Light]

Not a crock, even Pre-trib Rapture school scholars have admitted that the early Christian Church held to a Post-tribulational coming by Christ and gathering of the Church. You should do a bit of research for yourself on those pre-trib scholars you have believed on instead of your not believing what Lord Jesus Himself said about His coming after the tribulation to gather His Church.

And there were also believers in a pretribulation rapture.

But let's PRETEND that your statement is true.

YOU don't understand the difference between the great tribulation and the wrath of God. The great tribulation is over at the 6th seal. You think that the great tribulation is over at the 7th trumpet.

I have already proven that you are wrong as the Word says that the stars fall from heaven AFTER the tribulation. That totally destroys your claims.

Why not admit the truth. YOU ARE IN ERROR.

 

[Davy]

And there were also believers in a pretribulation rapture.

Like I said, do your own research. But you likely won't, simply because you'd rather believe on 'men' instead of Christ in His Word about the topic of the time of Christ's coming to gather His faithful Church.