Perry Stone Talks Rapture

[teamventure]

So,how would you all(rapturist)like to make $10,000

"RAPTURE! PROPHECY OR HERESY"

is a book by Colonel H. Speed Wilson (Daring Publisher). Since 1989, he has offered a $10,000 reward to anyone who can prove scripturally that the Saints are taken OUT OF THE WORLD.

The following is taken from the back cover of the book. "The Rapture theology has been one of the most controversial topics among Christians since the early 1800s to the present. The most commonly addressed questions in the popular books, pamphlets and sermons is WHEN will the Rapture occur? WILL the Rapture be pre-tribulation, mid-tribulation, or post-tribulation? And...WILL it be a secret and silent removal of Christians or a glorious return of JESUS?

As an astute Bible Scholar, Speed Wilson now raises a question in his thought-provoking book he feels is the most important and even critical question of all, IS THERE REALLY TO BE A RAPTURE?

Topics in Speed's book include Rapture Support Arguments, Origin of Rapture, What May Happen, What We Must Do, Consequences of the Rapture Doctrine, and, finally, Your $10,000 Challenge!

Speed is offering this $10,000 reward to anyone who can, after reading his book, reference any scriptures that clearly state that the Saints (Holy Ones, Righteous, Church, Body, Bride, Wheat...etc.) Are taken out of the world! Details as to how to receive this reward are presented in the book. The publisher, Daring Books, will give a $1,000 reward to the bookstore that sells the book to the person who qualifies for the $10,000 reward!"
This book has been updated in June 2010, and is now called "RAPTURE - A DANGEROUS DECEPTION" - 261 PAGE PAPERBACK - available at Amazon.com and other places.

RAPTURE - A DANGEROUS DECEPTION - An expanded revision of, "RAPTURE - PROPHECY OR HERESY?" by Col. H. Speed Wilson – What if an escape “rapture” is not a Bible truth? We can reject the truth, but, we cannot escape the consequences of rejecting truth. God’s Word is Truth! This 261 page book exposes more than forty (40) “rapture” related deceptions.

Colonel H. Speed Wilson, U.S. Marine Corps (Ret.) has served in combat in 12 named battles and campaigns during three wars. In recognition of his achievement in battle as a fighter pilot in World War II and Korea, he was awarded 3 Distinguished Flying Crosses, 16 Air Medals, and 5 Distinguished Combat Unit Awards. During combat duty in Vietnam, he served as Chief of Staff of the 9th Marine Amphibious Brigade, which was an air-ground team of 20,000 Marines. In this assignment, he was awarded the Legion of Merit with a Combat “V” and the Republic of Vietnam’s Distinguished Service Cross, which is one of the highest decorations awarded to a foreigner.

During his eight years of duty at our nation’s Capitol, Colonel Wilson served on many high-level planning and policy boards and was awarded the Marine Corps Commendation Medal for Meritorious Service. On July 1st, 1973, he retired after 31 years as a Marine. Colonel Wilson served 14 years (1973–1987) as an International Director of the Full Gospel Business Men’s Fellowship International. He was often a featured speaker at international, national, regional, and state conventions; local monthly chapter meetings; and church congregations. He also conducts seven-day and weekend Bible seminars. He has been a guest on many TV and radio programs and has frequently been a speaker at Lake Hamilton Bible Camp.

http://www.demonbust...om/rapture.html

Matthew 24:37-41 (Jesus speaking) But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be. For as in the days that were before the flood, THEY (the wicked) were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark. And THEY (the wicked) knew not until the flood came and took THEM (the wicked) ALL AWAY; so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be.





Verse 40 - Then shall two be in the field, the (WICKED) one SHALL BE TAKEN, and the other left.

Two shall be grinding at the mill; the (WICKED) one SHALL BE TAKEN and the other left.

Luke 17:26, 27 and 34-36 (Jesus speaking) As it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be also in the day of the Son of Man. THEY (the WICKED) did eat, THEY (the WICKED) did drink, THEY (the WICKED) married wives, THEY (the WICKED) were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came and destroyed THEM (the WICKED) all.

...I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed,; the (WICKED) one SHALL BE TAKEN (destroyed) and the other left.

Two women shall be grinding together; the (WICKED) one SHALL BE TAKEN (destroyed) and the other left.

Two men shall be in the field; the (WICKED) one SHALL BE TAKEN (destroyed) and the other left.

RAPTURE believers think THEY will be the ONE TAKEN. If you think YOU will be TAKEN, lets see what Jesus says will happen to you.
Luke 17:37, Jesus answers the disciples question of what happens to the TAKEN ONES. Jesus said, WHERE THERE IS A DEAD BODY, THERE THE VULTURES WILL GATHER.

2 Peter 2:5 (Peter speaking) (God) saved (kept safe) Noah...bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly (WICKED).

Matthew 13:24-30 The parable of the wheat and the tares. Gather together FIRST THE TARES. Jesus continues, The Son of Man shall send forth His angels, and they will gather OUT of His Kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity....

Luke 17:29,30 (Jesus speaking) ...(in) Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from Heaven and destroyed THEM ALL. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed. THE WICKED were destroyed, once again.

Matthew 13:47-50 (Jesus speaking) Again, the Kingdom of Heaven is like unto a net that was cast into the sea and gathered of every kind, which, when it was full, they drew to shore; and they sat down and gathered the good into vessels, but THREW THE BAD AWAY. So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and SEVER THE WICKED from among the just, and cast them into the furnace of fire...

Once again the GOOD remain and the BAD are thrown away. THE WICKED TAKEN and destroyed "from among the just," who remain on the earth.

I Thessalonians 5:3 (Paul speaking) For when THEY (THE WICKED) shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction shall come upon THEM...and they shall not escape.

Matthew 24:21,22 and Mark 13:19,20 (Jesus speaking) For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved (survive); but for THE ELECT's sake whom He hath chosen, He hath shortened the days.

How can there be THE ELECT during this time IF they went in THE RAPTURE?

ELECT is also mentioned in Luke 18:7; Romans 8:33; Colossians 3:12; Titus 1:1

Proverbs 2:21, 22 For the upright shall dwell in the land, and the perfect shall REMAIN in it, but THE WICKED shall be cut off (taken/destroyed) from the earth and the transgressors shall be rooted OUT of it.

Psalm 145:20 The Lord preserveth ALL that love him; but ALL THE WICKED He will destroy.

Proverbs 10:30 The righteous shall NEVER be REMOVED;

Proverbs 11:31 The righteous shall be recompensed IN the (world) earth...

Psalm 101:8 I (God) will early (first) destroy THE WICKED of the land...

Psalm 119:119 All THE WICKED of the earth you discard (throw away) like dross.

Proverbs 25:4,5 Take AWAY the dross from the silver...Take AWAY THE WICKED from before the King...

Isaiah 5:24 and 29:5 The flame consumeth the chaff (WICKED).

Job 21:18 THEY (THE WICKED) are as stubble before the wind, and as chaff that the storm carrieth AWAY.

Job 38:13 (Speaking to God) ...take hold of the ends of the earth that THE WICKED might be shaken OUT of it.

Malachi 4:1 For behold the day cometh...and all that do WICKEDLY, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up...

Psalm 37:29 The righteous shall inherit the land (earth) and dwell therein FOREVER.

Psalm 37:9-11 For evildoers (WICKED) shall be cut off (destroyed); but those that wait upon the Lord shall inherit the earth.

Isaiah 13:9 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger...and He shall destroy the sinners thereof OUT of it (the earth).

Psalm 104:35 Let the sinners be consumed OUT OF THE EARTH (world), and let the wicked be no more.

Psalm 52:5 God shall likewise destroy THEE (THE WICKED) forever; He shall take THEE AWAY, and pluck THEE OUT of thy dwelling place.

The above are just some of the Scriptures that make it CLEAR that the righteous STAY, and THE WICKED GO.
Ezekiel 9:4-6 and Revelation 9:3,4 talk about THE WICKED being destroyed in the midst of the RIGHTEOUS.

Was Job raptured out of his time of tribulation (testing)? NO


Was Joseph raptured out of the pit or prison? NO

Was Daniel raptured out of the lion's den? NO

Was King David raptured out of all his tribulation? NO

Exodus 7:18 through 12:30 records the Israelites were IN Egypt for all ten plagues of God's wrath.

Was Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego raptured out of the firery furnace? NO

Was Jesus or any of the Apostles raptured out of their persecution? NO

Was Paul raptured out of all his tribulations (2 Corithians 11:23-27)? NO

NO RAPTURE, JUST MUCH TRIBULATION

your post is offensive and misleading where you speak of a bunch of saints who weren't raptured from their personal tribulation when in the same bible noah and lot were saved from the literal judgement from God that came upon sodom, gomorrah, and the entire world..

 

[Israelsson]

your post is offensive and misleading where you speak of a bunch of saints who weren't raptured from their personal tribulation when in the same bible noah and lot were saved from the literal judgement from God that came upon sodom, gomorrah, and the entire world..

wasnt the entire world... there is proof that it was a localized flood, earth 'erats' land. Cain was driven from the face of the earth, and the word for earth there is the same as used in Noahs deluge.

It occured in the upper Tarim Basin, and a few years back, a team of archaeologists found caucasian mummies in the same area. Discovery actually did a special on this, go seek it out yourself.

 

[teamventure]

i'm sorry but though it may or may not be true, i'm not going to believe something just because it's on the discovery channel. i bet the discovery channel would have you believe that there were no findings of human foot prints w/dinosaur either..

edit: your post makes me wonder who's side you're on. God's or the worlds.
i'll believe the bible before discovery

 

[n2thelight]

your post is offensive and misleading where you speak of a bunch of saints who weren't raptured from their personal tribulation when in the same bible noah and lot were saved from the literal judgement from God that came upon sodom, gomorrah, and the entire world..

Of course they were saved,the point is they were not taken off the earth,God protected them here.....However not all Christians were saved,they were killed...

Revelation 6:10
And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

Persecution: A list of Early Martyrs Who Were Witnesses to the Life of Jesus
Here is an account of early Christian persecution, as compiled from numerous sources outside the Bible, the most-famous of which is Foxes’ Christian Martyrs of the World:

Around 34 A.D., one year after the crucifixion of Jesus, Stephen was thrown out of Jerusalem and stoned to death. Approximately 2,000 Christians suffered martyrdom in Jerusalem during this period. About 10 years later, James, the son of Zebedee and the elder brother of John, was killed when Herod Agrippa arrived as governor of Judea. Agrippa detested the Christian sect of Jews, and many early disciples were martyred under his rule, including Timon and Parmenas. Around 54 A.D.,

Philip, a disciple from Bethsaida, in Galilee, suffered martyrdom at Heliopolis, in Phrygia. He was scourged, thrown into prison, and afterwards crucified. About six years later,

Matthew, the tax-collector from Nazareth who wrote his gospel in Hebrew, was preaching in Ethiopia when he suffered martyrdom by the sword.

James, the brother of Jesus, administered the early church in Jerusalem and was the author of an Epistle by his name. At age 94, he was beat and stoned, and finally had his brains bashed out with a fuller's club.

Matthias was the apostle who filled the vacant place of Judas. He was stoned at Jerusalem and then beheaded. Andrew was the brother of Peter who preached the gospel throughout Asia. On his arrival at Edessa, he was arrested and crucified on a cross, the two ends of which were fixed transversely in the ground (this is where we get the term, St. Andrew's Cross). Mark was converted to Christianity by Peter, and then transcribed Peter’s account of Jesus in his Gospel. Mark was dragged to pieces by the people of Alexandria in front of Serapis, their pagan idol. It appears

Peter was condemned to death and crucified at Rome. Jerome holds that Peter was crucified upside down, at his own request, because he said he was unworthy to be crucified in the same manner as his Lord. Paul suffered in the first persecution under Nero. Paul’s faith was so dramatic in the face of martyrdom, that the authorities removed him to a private place for execution by the sword.

It's offensive to me for you to think you will escape what millions of christians experienced throughout history!!!

Matthew 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

So what's your fear?????

 

[teamventure]

in2thelight your posts are ridiculous. people don't believe in their enterpretation of scripture concerning the rapture based upon fear. they believe it because they believe it's in scripture..
i've already stated in this thread that i don't care to debate the rapture and i haven't even stated that i'm pre trib.
honstly i don't know when the rapture will happen but your posts are extremely annoying..

edit: i'm not going to post with you until you start being logical

 

[Duckybill]

wasnt the entire world...

Genesis 7:17-24 (NKJV)
17 Now the flood was on the earth forty days. The waters increased and lifted up the ark, and it rose high above the earth. 18 The waters prevailed and greatly increased on the earth, and the ark moved about on the surface of the waters. 19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly on the earth, and all the high hills under the whole heaven were covered. 20 The waters prevailed fifteen cubits upward, and the mountains were covered. 21 And all flesh died that moved on the earth: birds and cattle and beasts and every creeping thing that creeps on the earth, and every man. 22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of the spirit of life, all that was on the dry land, died. 23 So He destroyed all living things which were on the face of the ground: both man and cattle, creeping thing and bird of the air. They were destroyed from the earth. Only Noah and those who were with him in the ark remained alive. 24 And the waters prevailed on the earth one hundred and fifty days.

 

[veteran]

veteran, first of all, just cause you say something goes against scripture doesn't mean it does.
secondly, i don't want to discuss the rapture anymore.
on another note, what order do you believe in where pre trib is in opposition to? what are you referring to there?

Because I bring up the Matt.24:29 Scripture of Jesus revealing His coming "after" the tribulation He mentioned, it DOES mean what The Scripture says, regardless of whether someone thinks it's just my personal interpretation. Jesus made a direct type statement of Truth with that, not a metaphor, not a parable, not an allegory, etc.

You make the burden of proof upon yourself when you claim that I'm wrong about the Pre-trib rapture theory going against that Scripture as written. If you didn't want to debate it, then you shouldn't have suggested that I was wrong about that.

 

[veteran]

your post is offensive and misleading where you speak of a bunch of saints who weren't raptured from their personal tribulation when in the same bible noah and lot were saved from the literal judgement from God that came upon sodom, gomorrah, and the entire world..

What does your idea of what the word 'rapture' from Latin means have to do with any that anyway?

I find the Pre-trib rapture theory offensive to Christianity. The reason is because it is a doctrine of men, used by men to steal money out of the pockets of brethren by promising them an escape route that our Lord Jesus did not teach.

 

[teamventure]

ok cool.

i think that if jesus wanted us to focus on the timing of the rapture, he would have been more clear on when it takes place.
so let's focus on other issues after all, if that's the only thing two people disagree on, then they have plenty in common.

 

[BibleScribe]

... I guess I'm the only one who perceives that the dead will rise first, (1 Thess. 4:16). And we know the dead are not raised until the thousand years are ended, (Rev. 20:5). So why in the world are so many so confused as to the timing of those who are alive and remain on earth, raised to their New Jerusalem destination by meeting Jesus in the air for ever, (1 Thess 4:17)?



Simple things should be simple.

BibleScribe

 

[veteran]

in2thelight your posts are ridiculous. people don't believe in their enterpretation of scripture concerning the rapture based upon fear. they believe it because they believe it's in scripture..
i've already stated in this thread that i don't care to debate the rapture and i haven't even stated that i'm pre trib.
honstly i don't know when the rapture will happen but your posts are extremely annoying..

edit: i'm not going to post with you until you start being logical

There's basically 2 schools that use the 'rapture' word about Christ's coming and our gathering. Some of the Post-trib schools use it too in the same way Pre-trib does, but.. with a timing distinction (after the tribulation). Both of those schools believe in being literally 'raptured' off the earth into Heaven at Christ's second coming.

Then there are those (like myself) who do not use that 'rapture' word because the 1 Thess.4 Scripture is hard-linked to the events like what Apostle Paul taught about the resurrection in 1 Corinthians 15, from which he was teaching a portion of from OT Scripture like Isaiah 25 with death being swallowed up in victory.

There's actually many Scriptures in both the Old Testament and New Testament Books that further define just what is to occur with the gathering to Christ Jesus, and none of them reveal a 'rapture' off this earth, period.

The problem is 'how' pop traditions of men have misused the 'harpazo' idea in 1 Thess.4:17 in misrepresenting it with the 'rapture' word.

What will happen as written in God's Word at Christ's second coming, is that He is going to return back to the Mount of Olives in Jerusalem, exactly where He ascended into Heaven from (Zech.14; Acts 1). That will occur on "the day of The Lord" which includes events upon this earth involving the change at a twinkling of an eye that Paul described on the "last trump". Per 1 Thess.4, Christ is going to bring the asleep saints TO EARTH with Him at His return. And at that same time on that "last trump" those of us still alive on this earth will be 'changed'... to our resurrection body, a "spiritual body" Paul called it.

It will THEN be in that resurrection body, or spiritual body, that we will be 'siezed'... to where Christ will be, to Jerusalem on earth.

The 'rapturists' only have part of it right, the part about being siezed to Christ Jesus where He will be. It will be to Heaven, but to the Heaven that will be revealed UPON this earth in that time. THAT'S one of the major Bible prophecies they have completely missed, which is specifically what Apostle Paul was teaching about with the idea of being changed on the "last trump", the 7th Trumpet of Rev.11 that will occur with the 3rd Woe.

On the final trump, the one of 1 Thess.4:16 called "the trump of God", this present world age is going to end, as per 2 Peter 3:10, the elements of men's works upon this earth being burned up by God's consuming fire. THAT event is going to usher ALL into a heavenly age upon this earth, the "thousand years" reign of our Lord Jesus with His elect. This earth is not going to be destroyed, but man's order on this earth will be.

We all, including the wicked, are going to be in resurrection type bodies at that moment (John 5:28-29). And we all will be upon this present earth still. There will be a separation upon the earth between the resurrected just, and the resurrected unjust. Christ even revealed that separation in Rev.20 with the "camp of the saints" and "beloved city", and His warning in Rev.22:14-15, showing the wicked will be outside the gates of the holy city, with His elect inside it.

 

[veteran]

ok cool.

i think that if jesus wanted us to focus on the timing of the rapture, he would have been more clear on when it takes place.
so let's focus on other issues after all, if that's the only thing two people disagree on, then they have plenty in common.

Because of the times we are in, one of the most important things our Lord Jesus showed us to focus on is about the TIMING of His return, and how to be found still doing His work when He comes.

He specifically set that time when to really focus on end time events within His parable of a fig tree (Matt.24; Mark 13). In those chapters He gave 7 particular signs to be watching for the end, and they are the Seals, Trumpets, and Vials of His Book of Revelation. His Revelation through Apostle John was specifically... given to us for that reason, so we would not be caught off guard.

So if someone is telling you don't have to be on watch, and understanding those signs He gave, then they are misleading you directly away from what Christ Jesus gave for us to know as the end becomes closer.

 

[teamventure]

i must admit, i was just so encouraged from your post about Christs return and our gathering to him that i forgot the word rapture even exists.
i am anticipating the Lord's return amen?

 

[veteran]

i must admit, i was just so encouraged from your post about Christs return and our gathering to him that i forgot the word rapture even exists.
i am anticipating the Lord's return amen?

Amen!

 

[teamventure]

Because of the times we are in, one of the most important things our Lord Jesus showed us to focus on is about the TIMING of His return, and how to be found still doing His work when He comes.

He specifically set that time when to really focus on end time events within His parable of a fig tree (Matt.24; Mark 13). In those chapters He gave 7 particular signs to be watching for the end, and they are the Seals, Trumpets, and Vials of His Book of Revelation. His Revelation through Apostle John was specifically... given to us for that reason, so we would not be caught off guard.

So if someone is telling you don't have to be on watch, and understanding those signs He gave, then they are misleading you directly away from what Christ Jesus gave for us to know as the end becomes closer.

well, i watch everyday and am always trying to understand. i even read the parable of the fig tree yesterday.

 

[avoice]

As a "Thief in the night", is a figure of speech meaning simply when least expected. For all those thinking this means Rature Beware:
of doctrine's of men.
Jhn 10:
10 The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy.
I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.
11 "I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep.
12 But a hireling, he who is not the shepherd, one who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf catches the sheep and scatters them.
13 The hireling flees because he is a hireling and does not care about the sheep

The verse doesnt say Jesus comes as a thief in the night it says the Lords Day comes as a thief in the night.

The Lords day begins as a Day of wrath it only happens when the 7th trumpet blows ... whats God say about it
1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

Amo 5:18
Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end [is] it for you? the day of the LORD [is] darkness, and not light.

 

[Duckybill]

ok cool.

i think that if jesus wanted us to focus on the timing of the rapture, he would have been more clear on when it takes place.
so let's focus on other issues after all, if that's the only thing two people disagree on, then they have plenty in common.

I pretty much agree. It's not a salvation issue, though some try hard to make it.

 

[teamventure]

yeah huh. people get waaayyy to carried away don't they

 

[avoice]

I pretty much agree. It's not a salvation issue, though some try hard to make it.

Actually you very wrong it is a matter of Salvation ...Just assume for the sake of argument we are right and
that no rapture is written and God never said it ....

Now antichrist comes along pretending to be christ and he promises he's is going to rapture all true believers as soon as you pledge your faith and soul to him.

All Rapture believers will be pushing each other out of line to sign up ....They have just taken the Mark of the Beast,

Now assume its the other way around Rapture is written
but some dont believe in Rapture
However they believe in Christ with all their heart sense believing in Rapture isnt required they are going to be Raptured anyway

So the only way you lose is if you believe Rapture
and it turns out to be a lie of men ...satan will be glad to use it against you...he loves the Rapture doctrine it will win him many souls

So believe what you chose but it may very well be your salvation thatsa stake

 

[Duckybill]

Actually you very wrong it is a matter of Salvation ...Just assume for the sake of argument we are right and
that no rapture is written and God never said it ....

The timing of the 'rapture' a salvation issue? Nah.

All Rapture believers will be pushing each other out of line to sign up ....They have just taken the Mark of the Beast,

Nah.

Now assume its the other way around Rapture is written
but some dont believe in Rapture
However they believe in Christ with all their heart sense believing in Rapture isnt required they are going to be Raptured anyway

So the only way you lose is if you believe Rapture
and it turns out to be a lie of men ...satan will be glad to use it against you...he loves the Rapture doctrine it will win him many souls

So believe what you chose but it may very well be your salvation thatsa stake

Salvation is based upon believing in the Savior Jesus/God. Not the timing of the 'rapture'. Unless you think we must have perfect doctrine to be saved?